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Could use some Science build advice
frostyvenar
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
I've been running a Photon+Flow Cap build since forever it feels on my Science main. I still enjoy it, but I'm also wondering if it's time to switch to Particle Gen.
I currently run Tractor Beam 1x2, TSS 1x2, Tach Beam 3x2, and CPB 3 for my science powers.
Guess I'm curious as to what the current state of Flow Cap vs. Particle Gen is, and what all I'd need to switch to Particle Gen. [I already have the Voth doff for TBR, luckily.]
Also curious as to which ship people feel is best for such right now, as my options right now are: Dauntless, Dyson, Scryer, and the Vesta.
My current build: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=testscryer_0 [Only missing one or two from that actual setup, that I'm just about to get, really. Also, the empty engineering console is supposed to be the Bio-Neural Gel Pack]
I should probably also ask: Is Psychological Warfare worth it if I do go Particle Gen?
Edit: I'm 100% PvE only. Sorry about that, knew I was forgetting some info. :P
I currently run Tractor Beam 1x2, TSS 1x2, Tach Beam 3x2, and CPB 3 for my science powers.
Guess I'm curious as to what the current state of Flow Cap vs. Particle Gen is, and what all I'd need to switch to Particle Gen. [I already have the Voth doff for TBR, luckily.]
Also curious as to which ship people feel is best for such right now, as my options right now are: Dauntless, Dyson, Scryer, and the Vesta.
My current build: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=testscryer_0 [Only missing one or two from that actual setup, that I'm just about to get, really. Also, the empty engineering console is supposed to be the Bio-Neural Gel Pack]
I should probably also ask: Is Psychological Warfare worth it if I do go Particle Gen?
Edit: I'm 100% PvE only. Sorry about that, knew I was forgetting some info. :P
Post edited by frostyvenar on
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http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/absolute-misery-vesta.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/general-misery-nova.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/general-misery-luna.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/absolute-misery-intrepid.html
Hope it helps.
I don't touch PvP, so I'm looking for a strong PvE build. So I suppose I was curious if the trait was useful in PvE and such, but good to know. Definitely some interesting builds there, though certainly PvP orientated so not my thing. Thanks for the info though.
Ahh, in that case, I would certainly advise moving from Flow caps to Particle gens and perhaps using something skin to these...
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/high-damage-luna.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/high-damage-nova.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/aoe-vesta.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/cannon-vesta.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/sci-high-damage-vesta.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/eng-high-damage-vesta.html
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/tac-high-damage-vesta.html
Hopefully this will be more helpful
That would certainly work... I didn't think of that... Then again we didn't have 360 degree phasers when I made it...
Hmm, I'll have to look into these! Probably won't go -full- towards cannons, but I think I'll see what I have and what I can build towards for relatively cheap/quick.
Do still have a few questions, though:
I notice not many people use Shield Refrequencers. Are they generally just considered sub-par to a pure console?
Are there any preferred traits for such builds?
Also, looking at the Vesta's setup again, it looks like I could probably do much the same build on the Dauntless, and get a secondary deflector, no? [Just no cannons. :P ]
Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, and once again thanks for all the info.
Hmm, you know, I admit I tend to forget that FBP even exists, despite knowing how useful it can be...
And yeah, I hear now and then that apparently shield drain isn't as good as it used to. It's just the build I've been using ever since I was flying around in my LRSV Retro back before reps existed. :P
That's potentially a good idea, I haven't looked at the Dauntless too much yet, I haven't finished putting T5 ships on the site... According to the Wiki the Dauntless would be workable, you could get an extra particle generator on it but the 3/4/3 setup on the Vesta I feel would be better for survivability.
As for questions, they're all as helpful to us as the answers are to you.
Vesta Surveillance T5-U Dauntless T6
Hull 38,720 36,000
Shield Mod 1.35 1.3
Turn Rate 12 14
Inertia 40 50
BOff Powers 5/2/5 5/2/6
Consoles 3/5/3 2/5/3
Dual Cannons Yes No
Hangar Bays 1 None
Sec Deflector No Yes
These are the main differences I noticed between the two ships. Seems the Vesta will have more survivability and flexibility, as it has Universal BOff slots, higher hull and shield, that third Eng console slot, as well as a hangar bay. The Dauntless though does have an extra Lt grade Sci/Int power slot at your disposal, with slightly better Turn rate and Inertia, plus it is one of the few Sci ships currently that can use a Secondary Deflector, though hopefully that will change in the future.
[Guh! Spending all this time trying to make that list of differences look nice, and still it just crams it all together... I fail at forum posts. :P]
Then there is the fact that partigen damage isnt that great to begin with in pve.
As long as flow capacitors is an ensign level captain skill with minimal point investment to max, and isnt governed by flat damage increase powers like attack pattern alpha I think it beats partigens when used from a science captain.
My Vesta will shut down a group of ships with a tykens rift just as well as any gravity well will bunch them up, polarized disruptors offer an excellent synergy and now since feds can add aceton assimilators, a drain build is quite viable in pve. You wont break any silly dps chart records but the people on your team just might since they benefit more from your efforts then they will ever admit.
Also investing in flow capacitors beyond the 9 point captain skills pays off nicely with the plasmonic leach console, and will provide so much overcap in weapon power over the 100 hardpoint setting that the vaunted 2 piece omega weapon amplifier will not have an impact on your damage output from weapons, giving you the extra console slot and liberating you of the torpedo or cutting beam.
I will stay with flow caps because it makes the people around me better, and it is a minimal investment in both captain skills and boff powers allowing me to also provide healing and cleansing support.
I'd love to try energy drain at some point, but sadly I can't really afford Plasmonic Leech at the moment. While true it isn't fully needed, it does seem like a -really- nice part of one's drain build.
I currently use Flow Cap for Shield Drain specifically. CPB for a big hit [Doffed for radiation damage, too], Tach Beam 3 to drain [And pull into mines with the new DR pack Doff] and Tractor Beams with a purple Doff to make them drain shields.
As a matter of fact, people dont use the plasmonic leech for its ability to drain target power, that effect is really quite minimal and mitigated by the target's resists. The real reason people use it is for the power to your own subsystems which isnt a power transfer, you get the power regardless of target resists. This power boost will give you better sci skill effects, more shield resist and regen, faster turn, speed, and defense bonus, and most importantly more weapon power overcap to reduce the falloff in weapon damage from firing cycle power drain. On a drain build it is a small bonus, but by no means is it central to your build, that center is Tykens Rift.
CPB isnt very good in anyone's hands, and unfortunately Tachyon beam isnt great either, with it's long cooldown and 90degree arc, what is there to like? That tractor beam doff is also pretty poor. I have tried all of these skills with 5x mk14 embassy flow cap consoles, 100 points in the captain skill, and and +flow cap traits, and any available doffs. They just dont pay off the way Tykens Rift 3 does.
Consider Tykens rift, and boff it to reduce cooldown on deflector skills. (x3 boffs). You can also boff it once to have a chance to create aftershocks though you can only use one boff to this end, and it's proc is agruably not worth the boff slot.
For example, my tykens rift will cripple the entire wave of spheres that come from the Gate on Infected advanced, I have saved many pug instafails by casting it at the lead sphere, I find it better then grav well for this purpose.
Another case for Flowcaps over Patigens is the economical benefit to flow caps:
Flow Caps
- Minimal point investment to max out with 9 points.
- Plasmonic Leech Console 100% uptime on flow cap return
- Aceton Assimilator on a 30 second cooldown
- Doffed Tykens Rift often procs for a 30 second cooldown
- Target Subsystem abillities power drain magnitude, 4 'boff quality' skills innate to science ships with a 15 second shared cooldown
- Polaron and Tetryon weapon proc magnitude
Flow Capacitors have a potential 100% uptime on skills and effects utilized by a science captain in a science ship
Partical Generators
- Captain level skill requires considerable investment of available points, which will cut into other captain skills.
- Damage increase to Science skills is minimal with a maximum investment, particularly on a science ship with no APO/APA.
- PartiGen skills often have a 1m cd, any console Partigen power will have 2m cd.
- No bonus to weapon procs.
Partical Generators are only useful once per cooldown cycle.
I wont say partigens are useless, but I feel like partigens are more for a tactical captain who can increase the magnitude of damage through attack patterns, suggested by the longer cooldowns on boff powers and consoles that line up with attack pattern alpha.
How do you write a whole post about a drian build and completely skip Energy Siphon 2? By the way, in an over-the-top drain build, Plasmonic Leech gets up to about +43 power.
I haven't even mentioned it, but Override Subsystem Safeties 2 combined with flow caps taken to the max and the Romulan rep T5 boost allows for some very very nasty Tyken's 3 to be used by the Dauntless.
FYI - Aceton Assimilator's drain is broken, but supposedly, on the path to being fixed.
Thas a hell of a lot of return on a console so if you are going for a drain build plasmonic leech is certainly a nice investment and a step towards 'Elite'.
I am periperally aware of energy siphon, but the op indicated that his build was for pve, and ES is a single target skill on a 1m cooldown, which can be doubled for a 30 second cooldown, but at the cost of valuable lt commander skills such as TSS3and HE3. I might consider throwing it onto the Vesta and scaling back my heals but its an economy issue for me, im really not fond of the cooldown limited to a single target.
I use ES2/3 to great effect on my Fleet Kharfi as a means to ensure I have maximum subsystem power. To be honest I have it on my general spam bind, and I havent really considered its application as a target drain. Im pretty sure its gonna TRIBBLE over a tactical cube or a gate after I throw all my other junk at it.
Nor have I looked into ES since I went crazy with 5 embassy consoles.
*Logging in now!*
--Edit---
Holy TRIBBLE. Es. yea you want this.
I think if the Dauntless could use DHCs it would probably take the top spot of the two but in my opinion secondary deflectors aren't worth having yet and will likely remain not worth it until Cryptic gets them out ("Soon" tm, in other words it likely wont happen) I may be under-estimating intel powers but I don't see the point in them outside of pvp or making NPCs do funny things.
As for the prettiness (or lack of it) in your comparison table, that's a forum limitation.
Mmm, a Lt. Intel ability can get you Override Subsystem Safeties 2 or Evade Target Lock 2, both of which can be very useful.