And while "*almost" everyone here bashes each other like wild animals, I am going to go play some EvE...
But in all seriousness, people go way to far, it's just another game... learn to accept it, and you'll end up like me, no nerf or bat hammering bothers me, I just live on and keep enjoying the game... Is that so hard to do???
* You wanna be consider part of this animals that bashes into each other... just reply to my post... nothing hard to do...
The development team became aware of a potential leveling exploit on Wednesday morning this week. After initial investigations, we decided to shut down access to the maps that were being used for this power-leveling to perform a deeper investigation.
......
If this was being done on tribble and reported with whatever other bugs were reported and ignored then please explain how your very first sentence of this is not a blatent lie of Stahlesk proportions.
That's like 3 levels per patrol mission! They must've been synching with a level 1 or something to get even close to that much XP...and the dil they must've pulled from that...
*shudders*
Glad to hear that you fixed this, EP, that would've blown the game's economy.
Hope the worst of the exploiting scum got permabanned.
Logically, this is where you ask yourself (or others) if what you were doing is actually exploitive behavior.
The thing is, I shouldn't need to ask myself or others ... I somehow was under the impression I could just play the game the way I'd enjoy it ... should I ask permission for every Mission / PVE Queue etc from now on ?
For the record, I've playing the 'Shutdown' mission (near DS9), solo, on Elite. I did not team up with anyone, nor used any team-trickery to lower NPC levels (or any other tricks).
Simple question, was solo-ing this map considered 'exploitative'?!
So yeah, can I get an official answer on this, please?
I exploited and I was penalized. I only lost 3 points though. Guess I'm lucky that Japori Rising bored me to death after a short while.
Am I upset about this? No.
This is the exception to the rule. People are not going to admit they are exploiting and expect reparations for being penalized.
You are not upset, but you do have very valid concerns about Cryptic's Quality Assurance. I agree with you (and have been saying for years) that they need to thoroughly test their content more reliably, and be willing to delay releases instead of looking at Holodeck as an etch-a-sketch.
So yeah, can I get an official answer on this, please?
Maybe if you stop spamming it, then you would get an official response... and if you didn't get punished for doing so, then maybe, just maybe it was not exploit...
Sorry for being blunt. I hope it is not overly offensive. If it is, my apologies in advance.
I put every fiber leveling up my main character. Of course we found a suitable location, and played the heck out of it. It is not like there were a lot of other interesting things to engage in, with all the buffed up and less rewarding content you have made. The area railroaded you into these locations by a spartan selection of alternate paths, and it is not convenient to resort to a rotational schedule, just in case the location should be a little too nice. It is not like we are mind readers or something.
As for leveling the playing field, that is a very short term measure, for those that can deal with getting back into it. Equalization is not exactly what the recent design policies have tried to promote! Harder content is the very foundation for differentiation! So the logic is inconsistent with everything around us. Differentiation and skillset segmentation, with the quality of equipment weighting heavily in, has been solidified of late! Level differentiation is a very temporary issue in such a scheme, for getting there is not a matter of great debate! You could almost say such an environment inspire faster leveling, for now it matters more. It is a logical cause and effect.
I have played my character in the correct area for the expansion, with random people, without a grand plan of exploitation or getting ahead of anything. No organised crime, or gang mentality was involved. I just wanted to have fun. And it was fun! I never suspected we were doing anything unnatural or out of the ordinary. We were leveling in a MMO, using the correct content and playing in the correct area. How is that in any way suspicious? It normally is not!
You have broken my spirit, taken away my energy, and called me out as an exploiter. After playing the game just as I would have done normally given similar circumstances in this game or any other game. It is not my fault the area was too nice to me, and I don't have the ability to compare my progress to some grand average! Why should I even care about that? It is quite frankly not important to me as a player. Taking away hard progress is the next-to-most brutal measure you can possibly enforce, shutting down the whole thing would be that other one. So it is a very sober moment in time!
Sounds like a fair solution... Thanks for the info.
Thanks everyone now I finally know who did make the Exploit , Implemented it, Added it to the game.
Reviewed the game and problems for a fix.
Blamed ??? for Exploit must have been players playing game that do that anyway.
Received explanation of persons that did or will be punished in game of power leveling but out of game we hear of no such punishment behind the quiet close scenes of creators of the whole problem.
All is clear and my hope of Game is Hurt real bad ! I'm confused as to why this all started ??
Whats' Tribble for anyways ? Nothing ? just curious
Anyway Trust is Earned not given on apologies or words that make up new stories that it will all be fine and a happy ending , Time and facts of events tell us the truth instead , for me anyways. Qapla and good luck Cryptic you got a tuff road to walk with players and trust now more than ever.
So there was no way to know, you're "exploiting" ...
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
Maybe if you stop spamming it, then you would get an official response... and if you didn't get punished for doing so, then maybe, just maybe it was not exploit...
The other way around: if you folks would stop spamming this thread with your personal wars, then some normal questions can finally get answered. K?
I guess according to the BIG BAD Worfan, you're considered Scum - I thought I heard that from some where, think Naruto Shippuuden in regards to Kakashi and Obito.
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
Strawman argument.
Dyson ground BZ "Obviously" gives more dilithium than elsewhere. Have you ever played that? Then you are breaking the rules and should be punished, as you said.
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
Please define "elsewhere", because hate to break it to you ... it was not just Tau Dewa ... it was pretty much everything except the DQ (except Argala Patrol Elite) ... so common sense = play the new content or GTFO ?
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I guess according to the BIG BAD Worfan, you're considered Scum - I thought I heard that from some where, think Naruto Shippuuden in regards to Kakashi and Obito.
That's like 3 levels per patrol mission! They must've been synching with a level 1 or something to get even close to that much XP...and the dil they must've pulled from that...
*shudders*
Glad to hear that you fixed this, EP, that would've blown the game's economy.
Hope the worst of the exploiting scum got permabanned.
Oh do stop being such a sycophant worffan old chap, it doesn't suit you.
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
So bug hunt elite is exploiting. So very easy to get the top tier rewards from it right now.
Guessing saving my reputation turn ins for this weekend is exploiting.
Playing space at all is exploiting.
Only running some of the doff assignments is exploiting.
Using leech console is exploiting.
Aux to Bat, Zemok, Scimitars, contraband, KDF patrols, heh.
The development team became aware of a potential leveling exploit on Wednesday morning this week. After initial investigations, we decided to shut down access to the maps that were being used for this power-leveling to perform a deeper investigation.
The investigation uncovered several different bugs in the game that were combining to allow players to level at approximately 17x the rate that players were leveling anywhere else in the game. This was definitely not intended behavior. Fixes for the various bugs went live with the update on Thursday morning, and we opened up the blocked maps.
During the investigation, we pulled data on every players behavior, and then we zeroed in on the players who were gaining levels at unreasonable rates. All of these players were on the maps under investigation. We found that quite a few players dabbled in these maps, but it was really a very small number of players who decided to take advantage of the bugs in excess. In fact, in the end there were around 300 characters (spanning around 250 accounts) that crossed the line from being efficient into taking significant advantage of the bugs. 300 is a very small number from the hundreds of thousands of characters playing.
This raises the question of what an exploit is. Ill loosely define an exploit is any unintended behavior in the game that a player can use to gain significant advantage over others. How does a player know something is unintended? That is definitely open to interpretation and was a huge focus of the discussion in the dev team. In this case, we feel that the difference in leveling speed between playing other content in the game and playing the content that was singled out this week was so large that it is reasonable for players to think this is too good to be something the dev team intended to happen. We find exploits regularly, but it is uncommon to find one that was used to achieve enough of an advantage to require taking action.
Once deciding that there was an exploit, the question is whether action is required or not, which means looking at who dabbled and who took advantage? This was done with an intensive data analysis. In the end, we decided that the vast majority of players were being fairly reasonable in their use of the maps to level, but there was a space in the data between players who gained up to 10 specialization points using the exploit, and those who gained more than 10 specialization points. I decided to make this the cut-off line and anyone who got more than 10 points on those maps had the excess points removed from their characters. For example, a character earning 15 points, 12 of which were on the exploitable maps, would lose 2 specialization points, and a character earning 60 points all of which were on exploitable maps would lose 50 points.
I have looked into the claim that some players were not using the exploit maps, but so far every claim I have come across has not held up under data pulls. If anyone still thinks they lost specialization points when they should not have should please file a CS ticket. CS tickets get a tracking number that can ensure we take care of everyone with a concern.
Im certain that at least some of the players feel they were acting in the right. That errors the dev team makes should be fair game. There are likely some others who feel that I drew the line in the wrong place, either too high or too low. It is challenging to walk the line between protecting the player base that wants the game to be fair, and allowing players to be efficient and game the game. In this case, a judgment was made and the line was drawn in order to protect the integrity of the game for the hundreds of thousands of players who did not and cannot do this going forward. Reviewing the data further, I still feel it was a good place to draw it.
Our communication on this issue was apparently unclear. Ill finish up this afternoon by apologizing for not being more clear about what happened. We normally do not post about actions taken to correct exploits, and I did not expect this correction to require more than a simple post. I was mistaken and I hope this clarifies what happened for those that want a more complete story.
I hope you all have a wonderful weekend.
Stephen DAngelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
And
"This whole argument, and several prior, seem to stem from a difference of opinion on the definition of the term "exploit." And, it appears that I have a different definition than most. Perhaps we can put this whole semantic debate behind us, if I offer some clarification.
In my opinion, as a Dev, somebody that is Exploiting is deserving of punishment. By extension, an action should be called an Exploit only if it is an action that the player should be held accountable for, and face punitive measures for.
If a player is utilizing a coding error, potentially without their knowledge, they should not be held accountable for it, in my opinion. And therefore, by my personal definition, that action is not Exploiting. To call it Exploiting would imply that disciplinary actions would be warranted.
My opinion on this may be quite bias, however.
For example, it was my responsibility that the Jem'Hadar Shield was benefiting from Brace-for-Impact Doffs in error at the time they rolled out to the public. It would have been improper - unfair, illogical - to punish players for utilizing that combination of items/powers, when it was MY responsibility that they were malfunctioning. Therefore, doing so was not what I would define as an Exploit."
Translates to Cryptic is too cheap/lazy to police stuff unless it hits their bottom line, then it's not a bug but finally meets the "exploit" criteria?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
I didn't grind there and why do my drops Ec's per hour ,xp ,assignments all get lowered in amounts for what to buy more lol for what i can't ? people grinding in game. Ive played for 5 years most everyday for what everything to be less , good job is that it good job does that make you happy now lmao,drops in game are at an all time low thats a fact defend that.
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
Except the DS9 misson I was doing on Elite did NOT reward more than the DR patrols on Elite (around 900-1200 XP per boss NPC).
And this is really gonna bake your noodle, later on: the reason ppl resorted to missioning/running patrols elsewhere is precisely because there were XP gaps in the the DR storyline, preventing ppl from taking those many 'Go patrol these 5 locations in the Delta Quadrant' to begin with!'
When the game first came out grinding patrol missions and enemy encounters was the way people leveled and it went just as fast as it did this time. I'm sorry but I don't see how the xp amounts that Tau Dewa was giving was bugged. The only evidence we have is that you guys are magically saying it is bugged 1 week after people started doing it. The reason it was so much better than other methods for leveling was not because it was bugged, but because no one at cryptic can do math and set the missions to give TRIBBLE xp so just killing waves of elite npc's gave more xp for people's time.
Sorry but "we saw that there were bugs" does not seem to be enough evidence for me...I smell bull****. Besides, if you are going to be punishing the player-base for killing npc's in a grind style that has been around since day 1 I'm leaving anyway. It seems to me that your Chinese overlords have demanded that the player-base play the DR content they invested in and you decided to make them happy by stopping patrol missions.
The real problem with this situation is that behind the underlying and reeking corruption is the sad fact that there is nothing to do in this game without japori. We can't do the endgame content until we upgrade our gear and we can't upgrade past our 8k daily dil cap (unless we give you money of course). You guys should have been ecstatic that people were willing to mindlessly grind 2 year old content and be happy when you released such a content-barren, game breaking "major super awesome bestest expansion ever" that left us with massive leveling gaps.
I want you guys to fix this but tbh with the way i see things going, I don't think you will. RIP STO.
I don't care Jesus Christ, Buddha, and Mohammed returned to Earth together to start an STO fleet. In the game, no player is more important than any other.
Is this the plot to Saint Young Men?
Seriously, though, it's good to finally have some major conformation about what's going on.
Comments
But in all seriousness, people go way to far, it's just another game... learn to accept it, and you'll end up like me, no nerf or bat hammering bothers me, I just live on and keep enjoying the game... Is that so hard to do???
* You wanna be consider part of this animals that bashes into each other... just reply to my post... nothing hard to do...
If this was being done on tribble and reported with whatever other bugs were reported and ignored then please explain how your very first sentence of this is not a blatent lie of Stahlesk proportions.
wahhhh Worffan wants me banned waaahhh
your point is???
The thing is, I shouldn't need to ask myself or others ... I somehow was under the impression I could just play the game the way I'd enjoy it ... should I ask permission for every Mission / PVE Queue etc from now on ?
Congrats you finally got it ... noone can ...
If you maxed your specialization out and piled some excess dil on top of that he isn't the only one that wants you banned.
We're all still limited to 8k (9k vet) refined per day.
Cheers!
So yeah, can I get an official answer on this, please?
no no, I love him. I havent even done a Reputation in my life
bye bye! ^^^^^
This is the exception to the rule. People are not going to admit they are exploiting and expect reparations for being penalized.
You are not upset, but you do have very valid concerns about Cryptic's Quality Assurance. I agree with you (and have been saying for years) that they need to thoroughly test their content more reliably, and be willing to delay releases instead of looking at Holodeck as an etch-a-sketch.
Maybe if you stop spamming it, then you would get an official response... and if you didn't get punished for doing so, then maybe, just maybe it was not exploit...
I put every fiber leveling up my main character. Of course we found a suitable location, and played the heck out of it. It is not like there were a lot of other interesting things to engage in, with all the buffed up and less rewarding content you have made. The area railroaded you into these locations by a spartan selection of alternate paths, and it is not convenient to resort to a rotational schedule, just in case the location should be a little too nice. It is not like we are mind readers or something.
As for leveling the playing field, that is a very short term measure, for those that can deal with getting back into it. Equalization is not exactly what the recent design policies have tried to promote! Harder content is the very foundation for differentiation! So the logic is inconsistent with everything around us. Differentiation and skillset segmentation, with the quality of equipment weighting heavily in, has been solidified of late! Level differentiation is a very temporary issue in such a scheme, for getting there is not a matter of great debate! You could almost say such an environment inspire faster leveling, for now it matters more. It is a logical cause and effect.
I have played my character in the correct area for the expansion, with random people, without a grand plan of exploitation or getting ahead of anything. No organised crime, or gang mentality was involved. I just wanted to have fun. And it was fun! I never suspected we were doing anything unnatural or out of the ordinary. We were leveling in a MMO, using the correct content and playing in the correct area. How is that in any way suspicious? It normally is not!
You have broken my spirit, taken away my energy, and called me out as an exploiter. After playing the game just as I would have done normally given similar circumstances in this game or any other game. It is not my fault the area was too nice to me, and I don't have the ability to compare my progress to some grand average! Why should I even care about that? It is quite frankly not important to me as a player. Taking away hard progress is the next-to-most brutal measure you can possibly enforce, shutting down the whole thing would be that other one. So it is a very sober moment in time!
*calculating a possible diplomatic failure*
Thanks.
Thanks everyone now I finally know who did make the Exploit , Implemented it, Added it to the game.
Reviewed the game and problems for a fix.
Blamed ??? for Exploit must have been players playing game that do that anyway.
Received explanation of persons that did or will be punished in game of power leveling but out of game we hear of no such punishment behind the quiet close scenes of creators of the whole problem.
All is clear and my hope of Game is Hurt real bad ! I'm confused as to why this all started ??
Whats' Tribble for anyways ? Nothing ? just curious
Anyway Trust is Earned not given on apologies or words that make up new stories that it will all be fine and a happy ending , Time and facts of events tell us the truth instead , for me anyways. Qapla and good luck Cryptic you got a tuff road to walk with players and trust now more than ever.
Okay, let's be perfectly honest here: If a new batch of content got released and you're grinding something that obviously is giving more experience than you get elsewhere, then common sense would dictate that you're abusing the system. Abusing the system = breaking the rules. Breaking the rules = you get punished. That's how things work. Period. That said, I always need to remind myself that common sense isn't so common :-/
The other way around: if you folks would stop spamming this thread with your personal wars, then some normal questions can finally get answered. K?
I guess according to the BIG BAD Worfan, you're considered Scum - I thought I heard that from some where, think Naruto Shippuuden in regards to Kakashi and Obito.
Strawman argument.
Dyson ground BZ "Obviously" gives more dilithium than elsewhere. Have you ever played that? Then you are breaking the rules and should be punished, as you said.
Please define "elsewhere", because hate to break it to you ... it was not just Tau Dewa ... it was pretty much everything except the DQ (except Argala Patrol Elite) ... so common sense = play the new content or GTFO ?
Yes that is ri.... WHATT?????
Oh do stop being such a sycophant worffan old chap, it doesn't suit you.
So bug hunt elite is exploiting. So very easy to get the top tier rewards from it right now.
Guessing saving my reputation turn ins for this weekend is exploiting.
Playing space at all is exploiting.
Only running some of the doff assignments is exploiting.
Using leech console is exploiting.
Aux to Bat, Zemok, Scimitars, contraband, KDF patrols, heh.
And
"This whole argument, and several prior, seem to stem from a difference of opinion on the definition of the term "exploit." And, it appears that I have a different definition than most. Perhaps we can put this whole semantic debate behind us, if I offer some clarification.
In my opinion, as a Dev, somebody that is Exploiting is deserving of punishment. By extension, an action should be called an Exploit only if it is an action that the player should be held accountable for, and face punitive measures for.
If a player is utilizing a coding error, potentially without their knowledge, they should not be held accountable for it, in my opinion. And therefore, by my personal definition, that action is not Exploiting. To call it Exploiting would imply that disciplinary actions would be warranted.
My opinion on this may be quite bias, however.
For example, it was my responsibility that the Jem'Hadar Shield was benefiting from Brace-for-Impact Doffs in error at the time they rolled out to the public. It would have been improper - unfair, illogical - to punish players for utilizing that combination of items/powers, when it was MY responsibility that they were malfunctioning. Therefore, doing so was not what I would define as an Exploit."
from: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6872741&postcount=27
Translates to Cryptic is too cheap/lazy to police stuff unless it hits their bottom line, then it's not a bug but finally meets the "exploit" criteria?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I didn't grind there and why do my drops Ec's per hour ,xp ,assignments all get lowered in amounts for what to buy more lol for what i can't ? people grinding in game. Ive played for 5 years most everyday for what everything to be less , good job is that it good job does that make you happy now lmao,drops in game are at an all time low thats a fact defend that.
Except the DS9 misson I was doing on Elite did NOT reward more than the DR patrols on Elite (around 900-1200 XP per boss NPC).
And this is really gonna bake your noodle, later on: the reason ppl resorted to missioning/running patrols elsewhere is precisely because there were XP gaps in the the DR storyline, preventing ppl from taking those many 'Go patrol these 5 locations in the Delta Quadrant' to begin with!'
Sorry but "we saw that there were bugs" does not seem to be enough evidence for me...I smell bull****. Besides, if you are going to be punishing the player-base for killing npc's in a grind style that has been around since day 1 I'm leaving anyway. It seems to me that your Chinese overlords have demanded that the player-base play the DR content they invested in and you decided to make them happy by stopping patrol missions.
The real problem with this situation is that behind the underlying and reeking corruption is the sad fact that there is nothing to do in this game without japori. We can't do the endgame content until we upgrade our gear and we can't upgrade past our 8k daily dil cap (unless we give you money of course). You guys should have been ecstatic that people were willing to mindlessly grind 2 year old content and be happy when you released such a content-barren, game breaking "major super awesome bestest expansion ever" that left us with massive leveling gaps.
I want you guys to fix this but tbh with the way i see things going, I don't think you will. RIP STO.
The "number 1" player.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCDk6J7AKUg
Is this the plot to Saint Young Men?
Seriously, though, it's good to finally have some major conformation about what's going on.