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Looking for tips on Beam Boats and Torpedo Boats
hydraface
Member Posts: 41 Arc User
Hello all
These questions may have been asked before but a major expansion's just come out and it's always worth getting some updated answers!
Here's what I want to do: Run a Tulwar Science Dreadnaught Either Beam Boat or Torpedo Boat.
I want to be able to Beam boat-it because I like being able to literally run rings around the enemy and keep pressure on. Rotating the shields that are facing the enemy has proven to be a good way to stay alive!
I'd like to be able to switch out to Torpedo Platform so I can really make the best use of the science powers by sticking full-power to Aux.
Here are something I'm a little unsure of, having read seemingly conflicting advice online:
1) How many torpedo slots should I have up front? I ask becaus I have three Torpedo DOFFs assigned, and one guide I read stated that if you have more than three torpedo slots full, the global cooldown 'steps on their toes' and you wind up not being able to fire the full volley, making three tubes the maximum viable number. This contradicts other articles I've read, so is it sensible to max out on tubes, or is there indeed a maximum practical limit on how many will be able to fire before the cooldown 'catches up'?
2) Can you or can you not load up the same torpedo types? The advice on cooldowns is really confusing. Again, does global/weapon-type cooldown 'step on your toes' if you have more than one type of torpedo? I ask because there are sets like The Breen set which boost a type of torpedo (in that case, Transphasics). So does that mean it is practical to have several of the same type of torpedo loaded up? Continuing this, what counts as the same type? would Breen Rapid Re-load Torpeoes, Standard issue Transphasics and Breen cluster torpedoes count as different weapon types in terms of cooldown, or are they all affected by one another because they're all transphasics?
3) For a Beam-Boat, what kind of power setting is adviasable if you're looking to use science powers as well? I'd ask 'cos usually, folks seem tomax out weapon power, but would that utterly nurf the science power effects? Or can the likes of Tykens and Grav well still be effective with minimal power?
If anyone knows some answers, or has run these types of builds and knows how to make 'em effective, any advice would be welcome!
These questions may have been asked before but a major expansion's just come out and it's always worth getting some updated answers!
Here's what I want to do: Run a Tulwar Science Dreadnaught Either Beam Boat or Torpedo Boat.
I want to be able to Beam boat-it because I like being able to literally run rings around the enemy and keep pressure on. Rotating the shields that are facing the enemy has proven to be a good way to stay alive!
I'd like to be able to switch out to Torpedo Platform so I can really make the best use of the science powers by sticking full-power to Aux.
Here are something I'm a little unsure of, having read seemingly conflicting advice online:
1) How many torpedo slots should I have up front? I ask becaus I have three Torpedo DOFFs assigned, and one guide I read stated that if you have more than three torpedo slots full, the global cooldown 'steps on their toes' and you wind up not being able to fire the full volley, making three tubes the maximum viable number. This contradicts other articles I've read, so is it sensible to max out on tubes, or is there indeed a maximum practical limit on how many will be able to fire before the cooldown 'catches up'?
2) Can you or can you not load up the same torpedo types? The advice on cooldowns is really confusing. Again, does global/weapon-type cooldown 'step on your toes' if you have more than one type of torpedo? I ask because there are sets like The Breen set which boost a type of torpedo (in that case, Transphasics). So does that mean it is practical to have several of the same type of torpedo loaded up? Continuing this, what counts as the same type? would Breen Rapid Re-load Torpeoes, Standard issue Transphasics and Breen cluster torpedoes count as different weapon types in terms of cooldown, or are they all affected by one another because they're all transphasics?
3) For a Beam-Boat, what kind of power setting is adviasable if you're looking to use science powers as well? I'd ask 'cos usually, folks seem tomax out weapon power, but would that utterly nurf the science power effects? Or can the likes of Tykens and Grav well still be effective with minimal power?
If anyone knows some answers, or has run these types of builds and knows how to make 'em effective, any advice would be welcome!
Post edited by hydraface on
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Comments
Specialty Launchers have different cooldowns from each other(Romulan Hyper, Omega, Emission, and Normal all have separate cooldowns), but are still subject to the global torpedo cooldown.
Candidly, I think it's a waste to use any 5-fore ship as a 'dedicated' torpedo platform.
If you want to hybridize it, I'd suggest either going with the Enhanced Bio Photon with THY and 4xDBBs/DHC, or run Gravimetric+Enhanced Bio Photon with Torp Spread and 3x DBB/DHC. Conversely, I really don't advise using something like the Romulan Hyper Launcher on a ship with such a massive hitbox.
As for mixing Energy Weapons with Science.. it's generally a bad idea - especially on warbirds with their power penalty. The only way you'd get away with it is a Drain Build with Plasmonic Leech, energy Siphon, a lot of Flow Capacitors and doffs that boost power levels on EPtX activation. It's not impossible, but it's not pretty either.
2 Yes you can load all the same torpedo types, a transphasic build using 2 Breen cluster-mine torpedoes and rapid reload ones for the remaining slots is a common and easy to obtain setup. If you were to go with an all photon build, you'd likely fire 3 of 5 fore weapons most of the time, a 4th rarely and the 5th may never be fired. So, going with longer cooldown torpedoes can help with 4 and even 5 forward weapon setups. An all photon build is best with 3 forward weapon ships unless you may use less projectile weapon officers. Without PWO's, 4 forward photons are viable, where 1 may rarely ever fire with 3 PWO's.
3. In a beam boat, you normally want to flush power into weapon power to produce more DPS. Beam arrays can supposedly take advantage of power above 135, if you can manage to boost it that high. With science, you want aux power. While you can't easily have both maxed out, with a good combination of consoles to boost aux power levels, you should easily get weapon pwr maxed and aux close to 100 or higher. If you switch power settings just for a moment to max out aux power before using grav well and tykens, it should have some bite. Just remember to reset back to weapons to keep doing damage. That's why a lot of science ships favor projectile weapons, so they can boost aux power and make science abilities do some good stuff without worrying about boosting weapon power too.
Thanks especially to Ryakidrys especially for the advice.
I think I'll do this: Whack on a Breen set and load up with Transphasics, then save to get The Adapted MACO set plus the Gravimetric, Tri-cobalt etc. set up. 'Cos it sounds fun! Especially the gravi torp!
But it sounds like going for the full 5-slots of torpedoes may not be optimal. Is it worth sticking some (perhaps Tetryon?) Dual Beam-Banks in as well? Again, it's that power juggling problem again, but I may just go with having some hyper-effective power-transfer rates and just constantly switch between Max-Aux when I want to use science, and Max-Weps at all other times. But grabbing every Aux-bossting console entity I can get my hands on, well, that's gotta be a good idea too!
Still don't want to give up on the beam-boat idea too through. I like flying the Scimi like that, but will focus on the torp-boat idea first and foremost.
Back to the Ha'nom... I currently have 2 PWOs; purple and blue. I plan on installing the following weapons when I reach the missions that awards them / do the rep grind.
Forward slots:
- Romulan Hyper Plasma Torpedo Launcher
- Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo Launcher
- Gravimetric Photon Torpedo Launcher
Aft slots:
- Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher
- Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher
- Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo Launcher
In place of the tactical console slots I will install the following:
- Zero-Point Energy Conduit
- Assimilated Module
- Hydrodynamics Compensator (maybe)
Any opinions regarding the above build would be welcomed. For a longer term goal (unless I really get fed up with) is to grind ECs to purchase the Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser from the Exchange which is I think currently going for 180 million ECs. It has Sensor Analysis and the universal Commander station means I can put a Science Boff there. It should work out as a good science cruiser with good firepower.
You should consider using the Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array from the New Romulan rep system. I have never used, but according to the link below it does not use any weapon power when firing other weapons. I am not sure if that only applies to other energy weapons or any simply any weapon (meaning torpedoes).
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Romulan_Singularity_Harness
For a combo energy and torpedo build the complete Romulan Singularity Harness set has pretty interesting set powers.
One more thing you might not want to hear, is that the tulwar turns too slow to be very effective with torpedoes unless you are a park-n-shoot player. Count on nearly all your DPS from the forward weapon slots. If you can get within 5km and have the Hot Pursuit trait, I'd honestly consider a nukara web mine and another type in the rear weapon slots. You'll waste precious time, which means DPS, turning the ship to get rear torpedoes on target, but not so with mines. I'd consider a park-n-shoot play style. And with that, the romulan hyper plasma is a great torpedo which can put out a string of slow moving torpedoes that can bring a lot of sustained damage when they start hitting.
Slow firing weapons to the left, fast to the right up front.
Jaguarskx, The Hanom, while it certainly turns faster than a Tulwar, is still a tad slow for a torp boat unless you do that park-n-shoot thing. You've got enough science to go with 2 grav wells, a tractor beam and energy siphon or 1 grav well, 1 tykens rift, a couple of energy siphons or tractor beams, that you could use deflector doffs to reduce GW and TR cooldows and run them more often, holding your prey still for mines and torpedoes to finish them off. You'll want at least 6 points in graviton and particle generator skills, and at least 6 in flow caps if you want to use energy siphon. Honestly, 9 points is better if you can manage it. Use deflector/ space sets that boost graviton and particle generators if you can swing that too so those wells and rifts do a fair amount of damage too.
I hope that helps
Yeah, I should have 6 points devoted to the above mentioned captain skills. I didn't devote 9 any skills because I was initially going for a more general science build. I might retrain if I like the initial results of the torpedo build. I slotted 2 PWOs (purple, blue) and a purple Gravimetric Doffs. I am currently working on getting a purple Deflector Doff.
Since this is a Romulan ship, I am looking at the Romulan Prototype Space Set anyway which does boost Graviton and Particle Generators. It also boosts turn rate as well and I believe I have a green RCS Accelerator Mk XI on that ship which I will replace with a blue Mk XII version since it is not very expensive. I estimate that should give me a 24 to 25 turn rate; but it has been a while since I flown my Ha'nom.
Anyway, I think this torpedo ship test bed is merely a short term solution. A better solution seems to be saving up for the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser since it uses a Borg Adapted Warp Core rather than a singularity core. It will not have any singularity abilities, but it will also not have the 40 power point penalty. The problem is that it is 180 million ECs as of yesterday. Who knows, by the time I can get 180+ million EC on this toon the price may go up.
If the cost in EC for a temporal science vessel is close to the TSAB, I'd give a lot of consideration to the Temporal Science Vessel because of it's higher turn rate and science flexibility. I have the Korath loaded up without any tac BO abilities. It's got a higher turn rate than the other ships you have discussed, which makes it much more acceptable to run torpedoes. My Korath is actually running more mines that torpedoes, which gives me the power to make all my science abilities have some bite.
You know I have not considered the R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel since I assumed it would have a Singularity Core instead of a Warp Core... The TSV actually costs more than the TSAB because I am saving up some ECs to potentially purchase the Wells TSV for my Fed science toon 'cuz I don't really like the looks of the Scryer (I call it Dunkin' Donuts with engines). This is a very long term goal since my Fed Sci toon has far less ECs than my Romulan Sci toon. I am hoping for a better looking Fed Science ship than Dunkin' Donuts, but I am not sure if that will happen...
One drawback is that the TSV does not have a cloak which kinda makes me hesitant about getting one for both Romulan and KDF factions. The TSAB will not be a torpedo ship it will be setup as a typical energy / torpedo combo ship. The Ha'nom will only serve as a torpedo test bed.
If you consider the possibility for up to 3 ensign level science abilities, 3 lieutenant level abilities, 2 lieutenant commander abilities and 1 commander level ability, ALL that science stuff, you could have a lot of fun with that.
You need at least one lt (better ltC) Tac to support your Science abilities and at least one Ensign Eng for the Eng team.
I agree that the DPS may not be the same, but that's not necessarily the role, either. There is more to playing this game than DPS. You don't need as much DPS when the target isn't moving, has far less power to heal with, has a subsystem or more disabled, and you have weapons that can mostly bypass shields.
So far, my sci toon in the korath without any tac BO skills is killing stuff in the new PVE content faster than my tac toon in a BoP and in about the same time as my toon using the Qib on the KDF side. So, as far as not killing stuff quickly, I can't agree so far with what I have experienced. I am still tweaking builds and may have found something more efficient on the sci toon so far, so there is certainly time and room for all of that to change.