Your numbers are probably off by a huge margin. A lot of people are using the "old" launcher, like myself, since it kept updating itself, and still works, outside ARC or Steam. I just never stopped using it, and will never stop until it doesn't work anymroe.
If I can play something without using a 3rd party program (be it steam or another), I will. And I think a lot of people think like that. That's not especially because it's using a lot of my PC, but that's just because I don't like having several program running for basically nothing. Let's face it, with Steam I can at least chat with my friends, but with ARC, uplay, origin.... I can't do anything interesting.
Sure it's not WOW. And I don't know for GW2, since I don't think we have the numbers. But STO makes money. A lot. And they have a lot of people playing.
That steam link is just reporting what we call "CCU" (ConCurrent Users). i.e. people who are all on, playing the game at the same time.
That is not the same as total active users, or what we call "Daily Uniques." i.e. the total number of separate accounts who logged in at some point in the last 24 hours.
There are many, many people who play the game, but they are not all online at the same time as everyone else. WoW is currently sitting at roughly 7.5 million subscribers. That doesn't mean they have 7.5 million people playing the game at any given moment.
No, we are not at the same level of active players as WoW, but we still have a pretty significant playerbase (total active players within the last 30 days).
As for Champs, yes, they are a much smaller game than STO. Fewer players, fewer devs. Why is it still running? Because it's still profitable. It may not be making the same amount as STO or Neverwinter, but if a game is still making more money than it's costing you, then why would you shut it down?
It may not be making the same amount as STO or Neverwinter, but if a game is still making more money than it's costing you, then why would you shut it down?
That steam link is just reporting what we call "CCU" (ConCurrent Users). i.e. people who are all on, playing the game at the same time.
That is not the same as total active users, or what we call "Daily Uniques." i.e. the total number of separate accounts who logged in at some point in the last 24 hours.
There are many, many people who play the game, but they are not all online at the same time as everyone else. WoW is currently sitting at roughly 7.5 million subscribers. That doesn't mean they have 7.5 million people playing the game at any given moment.
No, we are not at the same level of active players as WoW, but we still have a pretty significant playerbase (total active players within the last 30 days).
As for Champs, yes, they are a much smaller game than STO. Fewer players, fewer devs. Why is it still running? Because it's still profitable. It may not be making the same amount as STO or Neverwinter, but if a game is still making more money than it's costing you, then why would you shut it down?
Thanks for clarifying that Taco. Anyone who says my numbers are TRIBBLE, well add something to the discussion don't just say "derp OP is dumb derp derp". It would be great to know some official stats on how many people play the game. Is there any way to know Taco?
Steam charts is not indicative of the number of players in STO as most players launch the game directly from the launcher or from ARC. What I like about Steam Charts is the ability to see a trend that could be applied to the player base. I can tell from steam charts that STO has more players playing currently than they do during their busy time over the last two years (exluding LoR). It allows us a glimpse into the change in player numbers and you can match those up to events in STO.
Players who have had this game since before free to play aren't using Steam and probably not using ARC either. If I had to guess I would say Steam probably represents 10% of the players not 50%... I could probably sit at ESD and count the players in the instances and get to the steam numbers alone. There really is no reason to use Steam unless you use their social network stuff. I think its just another way for STO to get in front of gamers and pick up a few more players.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Might be relevant info for Bethesda singleplayer games or similar companys that are steams personal TRIBBLE but for games that are not just not tied to steam but also where released long before they got on steam?
I don't (and never have) use Steam or ANY other third party add on to launch any MMO I've played (and I've been playing MMOs since 1999 starting with EQ in its heyday.) That said, if Steam is a small microcosm into possible playing trends, it seems STO is doing very well with regard to population and retention these days.
I was surprised it's doing better (on Steam at least) then EVE, Rift and ESO, especially since ESO launched recently, and seemed to be getting ok reviews after the last few patches. Personally, I'm amazed anyone would use a third party client to launch anything as ANY extra service or app steals memory and CPU cycles; and no matter what my system specs, I want the best performance I can get on any game I'm running (but that's me.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And that's the $64,000 question that NCSoft has yet to answer regarding City of Heroes.
Simple answer: They werent making enough money altogether, and so they shut their lowest earning game down, despite the fact it was still earning money. thus they could get tax breaks to help boost their profits for the year.
and no one was willing to put up what NCSoft felt paragon studios and CoH were worth apparently.
Simple answer: They werent making enough money altogether, and so they shut their lowest earning game down, despite the fact it was still earning money. thus they could get tax breaks to help boost their profits for the year.
and no one was willing to put up what NCSoft felt paragon studios and CoH were worth apparently.
Some people just aren't cut out for this industry and we have many many many things to choose from to see this as well as NCSoft clearly saw and dealt with it.
Thanks for clarifying that Taco. Anyone who says my numbers are TRIBBLE, well add something to the discussion don't just say "derp OP is dumb derp derp". It would be great to know some official stats on how many people play the game. Is there any way to know Taco?
They certainly have that information but I can understand why its never been shared.
People suck at statistics but are very capable when it comes to arguing. If you put out the numbers this month, and again next month, whatever difference there is (or is not) will be used to criticize or justify any updates or changes that have been made to the game over that period.
Never mind what you should have learned in Stats 101, they'll make correlations and stand by them (because numbers) to the general ruin of even this level of forum discourse (trust me, it can get MUCH worse if those involved also believe they have a provable justifcation in addition to their mere god-like insight into the fabric of the universe, ie. opinion.)
It basically helps no one except maniacs (and there's already enough to the forum format to enable them.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Yes, that was tacofangs' point. The Steam numbers are neither accurate nor terribly informative.
I know but if he tells us STO is a factor of 20x or x30 out like Eve we can estimate how many players are in STO. Assuming Sto is like Eve we are talking 40,000 players at the same time and over 500,000 unique active players.
I know but if he tells us STO is a factor of 20x or x30 out like Eve we can estimate how many players are in STO. Assuming Sto is like Eve we are talking 40,000 players at the same time and over 500,000 unique active players.
As far as I know, most companies consider that proprietary information, and we're not likely to see reps of that company help us to determine those numbers, estimates or otherwise.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Understanding why, what? What is your point? What do you wish to discuss? The longevity of STO?
Even if you knew the exact number of players it would not be enough to determine anything. You need to know how many are subscribers, you need to know how much money each one spends in the game. And that's just income. How about expenses? How much does the STO team cost? Infrastructure expediture? Development budget? Etc, etc, etc...
sorry, but that graph just represents a fraction of the actual playerbase. You can easily double or even tripple that number.
And a game like STO can be profitable with an active playerbase of only 30k-40k.
just before STO went f2p it had 150k SUBSCRIBERS according to MMO data...it is save to assume that this number only increased with f2p going live.
How it developed since 2012 i haven't found any data, other than the official cryptic number of 2 million plus registered accounts. Even if only 10% of those are actually active it would be more than enough to keep this game profitable.
these and any other comments in this vein are quite correct however I think what the OP is pointing out is if you compare it to Champions Online page here > http://steamcharts.com/search?q=Champions+Online
you will see that there is a lot of life in the old dog yet.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Thanks for clarifying that Taco. Anyone who says my numbers are TRIBBLE, well add something to the discussion don't just say "derp OP is dumb derp derp". It would be great to know some official stats on how many people play the game. Is there any way to know Taco?
Unfortunately, that's pretty much always a company secret, for every game.
I will echo what others have noticed on our steam charts page, we're actually doing better now than we were a year or two ago. More people playing on average (not just at the spikes of new content).
Which is why I find Doom posts kind of hilarious.
As for Steam itself, I will say that I play through Steam, and have pretty much any PC game I can, through Steam. Yes, it is hypothetically using up some CPU cycles while i play, but it's not been noticeable for me. I like that I have a repository of all of the games I own, in one place. I can delete them today, and redownload them later if I choose. I can see what games my friends are playing, and join in with them fairly easily. I like their store, I like their sales, and I like that I can give my friends games that I think they might like (even if their gift system is a bit wonky.)
It may not be for everyone, but I'm quite fond of Steam, and use it pretty much every day.
so can we add "using Steam numbers to start a doom thread" to the FTC?
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Comments
If I can play something without using a 3rd party program (be it steam or another), I will. And I think a lot of people think like that. That's not especially because it's using a lot of my PC, but that's just because I don't like having several program running for basically nothing. Let's face it, with Steam I can at least chat with my friends, but with ARC, uplay, origin.... I can't do anything interesting.
Sure it's not WOW. And I don't know for GW2, since I don't think we have the numbers. But STO makes money. A lot. And they have a lot of people playing.
That is not the same as total active users, or what we call "Daily Uniques." i.e. the total number of separate accounts who logged in at some point in the last 24 hours.
There are many, many people who play the game, but they are not all online at the same time as everyone else. WoW is currently sitting at roughly 7.5 million subscribers. That doesn't mean they have 7.5 million people playing the game at any given moment.
No, we are not at the same level of active players as WoW, but we still have a pretty significant playerbase (total active players within the last 30 days).
As for Champs, yes, they are a much smaller game than STO. Fewer players, fewer devs. Why is it still running? Because it's still profitable. It may not be making the same amount as STO or Neverwinter, but if a game is still making more money than it's costing you, then why would you shut it down?
Neverwinter
Champions
Eve
Rift
Everquest (Yes, it's still running)
Firefall
Planetside 2
Elder Scrolls Online
Defiance
Gee, I was going to comment on CoH's demise too.
Not that I ever heard of the game outside these forums. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And that's the $64,000 question that NCSoft has yet to answer regarding City of Heroes.
Players who have had this game since before free to play aren't using Steam and probably not using ARC either. If I had to guess I would say Steam probably represents 10% of the players not 50%... I could probably sit at ESD and count the players in the instances and get to the steam numbers alone. There really is no reason to use Steam unless you use their social network stuff. I think its just another way for STO to get in front of gamers and pick up a few more players.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
"Figures don't lie but liars sure do figure"
NOT pointing at anyone here. Just saying.
Have to work this into everyday use...
I don't (and never have) use Steam or ANY other third party add on to launch any MMO I've played (and I've been playing MMOs since 1999 starting with EQ in its heyday.) That said, if Steam is a small microcosm into possible playing trends, it seems STO is doing very well with regard to population and retention these days.
I was surprised it's doing better (on Steam at least) then EVE, Rift and ESO, especially since ESO launched recently, and seemed to be getting ok reviews after the last few patches. Personally, I'm amazed anyone would use a third party client to launch anything as ANY extra service or app steals memory and CPU cycles; and no matter what my system specs, I want the best performance I can get on any game I'm running (but that's me.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Simple answer: They werent making enough money altogether, and so they shut their lowest earning game down, despite the fact it was still earning money. thus they could get tax breaks to help boost their profits for the year.
and no one was willing to put up what NCSoft felt paragon studios and CoH were worth apparently.
Some people just aren't cut out for this industry and we have many many many things to choose from to see this as well as NCSoft clearly saw and dealt with it.
They certainly have that information but I can understand why its never been shared.
People suck at statistics but are very capable when it comes to arguing. If you put out the numbers this month, and again next month, whatever difference there is (or is not) will be used to criticize or justify any updates or changes that have been made to the game over that period.
Never mind what you should have learned in Stats 101, they'll make correlations and stand by them (because numbers) to the general ruin of even this level of forum discourse (trust me, it can get MUCH worse if those involved also believe they have a provable justifcation in addition to their mere god-like insight into the fabric of the universe, ie. opinion.)
It basically helps no one except maniacs (and there's already enough to the forum format to enable them.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Ask NCsoft /still not bitter.
Those numbers for Eve are over a factor of 20x out once you factor in ConCurrent none Steam players. Is Sto the same?
For example Steam says 1,372 players online for Eve, 1603 peak in past 24hours. ConCurrent players outside of Steam is 35,400+ players are online
Yes, that was tacofangs' point. The Steam numbers are neither accurate nor terribly informative.
I know but if he tells us STO is a factor of 20x or x30 out like Eve we can estimate how many players are in STO. Assuming Sto is like Eve we are talking 40,000 players at the same time and over 500,000 unique active players.
As far as I know, most companies consider that proprietary information, and we're not likely to see reps of that company help us to determine those numbers, estimates or otherwise.
these and any other comments in this vein are quite correct however I think what the OP is pointing out is if you compare it to Champions Online page here > http://steamcharts.com/search?q=Champions+Online
you will see that there is a lot of life in the old dog yet.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Math. If it was 50% or higher the game would not be financially viable. Your biggest expense is the team, and those numbers I know.
And before you get all twisted - you can see salary ranges for every position we've been told about online, with regional variations.
Unfortunately, that's pretty much always a company secret, for every game.
I will echo what others have noticed on our steam charts page, we're actually doing better now than we were a year or two ago. More people playing on average (not just at the spikes of new content).
Which is why I find Doom posts kind of hilarious.
As for Steam itself, I will say that I play through Steam, and have pretty much any PC game I can, through Steam. Yes, it is hypothetically using up some CPU cycles while i play, but it's not been noticeable for me. I like that I have a repository of all of the games I own, in one place. I can delete them today, and redownload them later if I choose. I can see what games my friends are playing, and join in with them fairly easily. I like their store, I like their sales, and I like that I can give my friends games that I think they might like (even if their gift system is a bit wonky.)
It may not be for everyone, but I'm quite fond of Steam, and use it pretty much every day.
Shhh don't let HAL, I mean ARC hear you say that.
What I find amusing about this thread, is that if what the OP assumed was true, there wouldn't even be a game to talk about.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Number of accounts on per 24 hours what good are they if they don't spend any money.
Someone throw 300$ at lockbox keys to never play again is more like it.
You'd have to see all of it, all the stats, but of course most interestingly the amount of money coming in.