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Warbird battlcruisers
cryptkeeper0
Member Posts: 989 Arc User
Aelahl Warbird Battlecruiser
D'deridex Warbird Battle Cruiser
Ha'apax Advanced Warbird
Should get cruisers commands, I know the argument is that they get singularity powers and battle cloak but.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7004323
Qib Intel Battlecruiser
Gets battlecloak and intel ship powers... But also gets two cruiser commands.
My thoughts are that they should get two as well, though I'm thinking, Shield Frequency Modulation,Weapon System Efficiency or Strategic Maneuvering.
D'deridex Warbird Battle Cruiser
Ha'apax Advanced Warbird
Should get cruisers commands, I know the argument is that they get singularity powers and battle cloak but.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7004323
Qib Intel Battlecruiser
Gets battlecloak and intel ship powers... But also gets two cruiser commands.
My thoughts are that they should get two as well, though I'm thinking, Shield Frequency Modulation,Weapon System Efficiency or Strategic Maneuvering.
Post edited by cryptkeeper0 on
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Comments
--Red Annorax
Cruisers / Battle Cruisers gets 4 cruiser commands.
For every singularity power a ship has, it looses 1 cruiser command. Additionally, if the ship has a cloaking device it also looses 1 cruiser command.
If that's the case, what's the -40 power for?
Gather Intelligence
Expose Vulnerability: Defenses
Expose Vulnerability: Weapon Systems
Expose Vulnerability: Critical Systems
^ Intel powers
please read my complete argument. These are essentially de-buff powers that grow in combat much like singularity. So they shouldn't either.
Also the -40 overall power is the trade off for those powers, along with having a arguably worse warp cores. Because NONE of their power values can go over the normal max. Unlike anti-matter ones which can go +5 over max in two or one system, or even +10 in special cases. Also they don't have the 7.5% power from one system to another bonus.
@azmodeas That's not quite true, their hull means they turn worse. Their shields aren't much better then any fed ship, their cruisers have the same as kdf. Except Fleet Advanced Ha'apax, same as oddy though with lower turn rate and higher hull. Honestly though I do think the Bortasqu' and raptors need a buff in shields.
If this were true Qib would have none 3 powers and battle cloak. Also avenger which launched with the powers would have all 4. The only formula is basically a arbitrarily based on the class of cruiser.
:eek:
--Red Annorax
As for Rom Battle Cruisers without Cruiser Commands... They don't have them due to having stats of Fed Cruisers and KDF battles Cruisers which don't have any Battle Cloaks while Rom Warbird Battle Cruisers do, and which is why KDF/Fed Cruisers have Cruiser Commands and why Rom Warbird Battle Cruisers don't have em.
the play style that the battle cloak and singularity provide does not work well on a large cruiser
Why not bring Intel into this o.O, when that's the whole point of my argument. Again slightly more hull and shield is not really a thing. Hull is countered by their turn rate. Shields on these ships are the same a fed and even kdf with exception to Ha'apax when compared to kdf, but when compared to fed it's basically the romulan version of Tac oddy.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Ha%27apax_Advanced_Warbird
Vs
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Odyssey_Tactical_Cruiser
Also you really can't compare the base versions since they shouldn't hold back the fleet version from getting at least 1 or 2 cruiser commands.
The only thing they have over kdf and fed cruisers that hasn't been accounted for is battle cloak. But that should only take away a extra cruiser command, just like the intel cruisers ships which have 2 cruiser commands.
Warbirds aren't as powerful as most people think especially the cruisers. While I will say their stacking BOff traits and base romulan and reman traits are abit too powerful. With almost no kdf and fed equivalent, just compounds their issues.
Singularity powers etc have a lot of weaknesses, beyond just the -40 power levels, one a lot of people don't know is the higher the singularity charge the worse their stealth is even going as far as making their stealth worse then KDF ships. Another weakness is just the items singularity core them selves which are sadly not as good as antimatter ones.
That's the price for Romulan battlecloak.
As someone who tested LOR too. Stop spreading misinformation, it was the singularity powers. Even devs said so. Battle cloak actual is just a Romulan thing without any fed or kdf equivalent. Just like kdf has cloak over fed.
So the Warbirds have to suffer from -40 power and no cruiser commands for the singularity powers? What a raw deal. I'd gladly trade in my Warbird's singularity powers for those two things.
They can put SA and SST on science ships, why can't give they give Escort like Warbirds the extra 10% evasion and Cruiser like Warbirds Cruiser Commands?
It's the faction penalty. Heck, the KDF didn't have any 5 sci console ships until very recently.
Good news, there are two other Factions that can meet your needs.
If you do not feel powerful in your Warbird, you're doing it wrong. All the advantages that really matter in this game are there for Roms/Remans and their Warbirds in general:
Romulan Battle Cloak. With my Rom/Reman toons, I can get my Cloak cooldown timer down to 9 seconds, easy. My KDF toon in his BOP? The best I can do is 18 seconds.
Rom/Reman BOFFs with their completely overpowered, mostly stacking Traits. When people talk about the Roms being OP, it usually alludes to 2 things: Their overpowered Warbirds, and the other half of the equation, the overpowered Traits.
Unlike Fed/KDF ships, Warbirds have no penalty whatsoever in hull & shield mods for all the special and overpowered things they can do. Feds pay for whatever ships that can attempt to access cloaks, even if they do not stuff the console for it. The Defiant for example has less shield mods as well as having to give up a console slot for the Cloaking Device. KDF BOPs pay heavily for their Battle Cloaks, and suffer hands down the lowest hull & shield mods in the game. Only player shuttles have less. And despite all the power and capability Warbirds have, they have no penalties at all. NONE.
The TAC oriented Warbirds are powerful, very maneuverable. 5 TAC Consoles *IS* the norm. The KDF will get their very first 5 TAC Console Escort in DR :rolleyes: Vaper build excel with Warbirds. You see, there's Vaper builds based on the TAC Warbirds. Then there's the "Also Rans."
Singularity Abilities. If you're not using them, you fail to see some very nice things only Roms can do. These can be improved based on certain qualities of the Singularity Core you equip, but my favorite is Quantum Absorption, Singularity Jump. In both PVE & PVP, these abilities that you have backed up can save your behind when the regular BOFF skills you usually rely on are on CD or something. These are great emergency abilities, free of charge, and you give up no BOFF skill slots, no console slots for.
It's quite well known how potent the TAC-heavy Warbirds are. But do not discount the other types.
D'Deridex is very flexible. Cmdr ENG, LtCdr in TAC & SCI at the very least.
The Haakona/Fleet Ha'apax is very flexible in build variety.
These ships have good staying power.
Then we have the Ha'anom. Roms have poor selection in SCI ships (join the club with the KDF). But the Ha'anom covers the fundamentals of what you need in a true, hardcore SCI ship. Also, it is the ONLY SCI ship that has a Battle Cloak, alongside the damage bonus that brings to ALL damage from decloaking attacks. The Feds for all their outstanding SCI ships, have nothing like this capability. The KDF technically can try the same with the BOPs but they lack the Console Slots, lack the staying power that SCI ships tend to be very good at.
Simply put... I fail to see how you believe Warbirds are not overpowered. Everything about the Roms is overpowered.
Battlecruisers only get 3 commands.
While true, romulan warbirds outside of the Tvaro cannot turn with fed or even kdf escorts. Singularity powers have two of five that are useful and if used then the power bonuses are lost bcause unlike warp cores roms have to build up their singularity charge to get the singularity cores benefits. The crit chance bonus is a bit overstated today since BO now always crits and the dyson torps jacks up everybody's crit chance. I love my warbirds. But tales of their OPness are a little exagerated. As a whole they are awesome vapers but only have average staying power in a fight.
Also there are little things like no elite fleet plasma weapons available to them. Their sci ship and cruisers like warbirds are underpowered due to the singularity power issues and then have no cruisr commands to boot. Take the Qib cs the ahela. Both have battlecloak, both are 4/4, but the qib has slightly higher inertia and a slightly better turn. Now tack on the power issues for the rom battlecruiser and the weapon/trun cruiser commands for the qib and the qib will be abetter ship.
Turn rates poor for Warbirds outside the T'Varo? Completely false where it matters most: The TAC side of the house.
KDF (Until DR hits, there are *no* 5 TAC Console Escorts/Destroyers/BOPs. DR will bring the very first one for the KDF)
BOP (several types) average in 20's; Worst hull & shield mods... Only shuttles are worse.
Fleet Qin Raptor: 15
Fleet Somraw: 16
Guramba: 15
Scourge: 17
Vet Ship 14
FED:
Defiant: 17
Prometheus: 16
Tempest: 16
Akira: 15
Steamrunner: 16
Saber: 17
Andorian Escorts: 16
Vet Ship: 14
Aquarius: Currently 17 but "Raider" update on Tribble for Aquarius
ROM:
T'Varo: 18
Mogai: 14
Ha'feh: 16
Dhelan: 16
Ar'kif: 16
Vet Ship: 14
Scimitar: 7
D'Deridex & Ha'apax/Haakona are the slowest of the bunch and on par with the Odyssey, Bortasqu', Galaxy type of ships. Ha'nom is average in handling.
The TAC Warbirds on average handle quite well. Scimitar is sluggish of the TAC Warbirds but is made up for by being completely OP for this game.
And again, the Warbirds pay no price in hull or shields. Unless you choose to fly a non-Warbird or the Temporal ships, they all have access to Romulan Battle Cloak (EBC for T'Varo) with all the very heavy benefits that entails, as well as the shortest cloak cooldown timers in the game.
And the Singularity Powers are there. Use them or not. But they tend to be there when you need them. And most importantly: You are not giving up BOFF station slots to have these extra abilities. It doesn't matter if YOU only like 2 of them. What does matter is Warbirds gained extra abilities.
If you don't like the Romulan Science Ship lineup? Welcome to the Club, Romulans. The KDF has been fighting this fight since Day 1 of STO going live.
And again, Warbirds gain Singularity Abilities without the cost to precious BOFF station slots. THAT is your benefit. THAT is another source of power; Tools in the arsenal of a Warbird commander, tools that can be used quite effectively.
Complaining of the lack of Elite Plasmas? You access the same fleet equipment as the overlords you guys chose to kowtow to.
Complaining about your T6 Warbirds? LOL, your T6 Warbirds get the same benefits as previous Warbirds already do: Overpowered BOFF traits that mostly stack; Short Cloak Cooldown timers; Strongest Decloak damage bonus; Longest Decloak damage bonus duration; etc., etc., etc.,
Dude, I've gotten my Reman's stupid Warbird cloak cooldown reduced to 9 seconds, about +40% decloak damage bonus that lasts 23 seconds. And that's before I throw in BOFF & Captain abilities to make it hit harder. If I choose to, I can recloak BEFORE my decloak damage bonus expires. The best my KDF BOPs can do is 18 seconds.
Underpowered? Really?
Edit to add: You can probably get me to jump aboard in getting a bit more turn rate (1-2) for the likes of the D'Deridex, Haakona/Ha'apax. I know on the KDF side we've long been trying to get more turn out of the Bortasqu'. And these increases should not be hidden behind console bonuses.
Boff abilities that drain every power bonus to your warp core. Yeah, try get out of jail cards. Also, trying to cloak with a fully charged singularity core is not helpful. I can be just as survivable in a BoP by just using the impulse burst console. Only that doesn't cost me 40 power.
Calm down. I simply was stating one thing I dislike about Roms is that they have several consoles that boost plasma but have zero access to elite level plasma weapons. I prefer to use disruptors on my roms since that is what they are supposed to be using all along.
Take a deep breath, count to ten or whatever. Its ok for someone to not agree with your absolutes.
BoPs have issues. I agree with you 100% that they need to be buffed up and not just a 8.3% flanking bonus in PvP. With all the FAW, BoPs die stupidly fast in group pvp.
Yeah, they don't have enough power to go around until the plasmonic leach kicks in. And usually engine power suffers most which hurts their actual turn vs. on paper turn radius. They are also really big and in practice cannot turn with fed scorts, stop quoting turn radius from a stat sheet and fly the dumb things more, you cannot turn with a fedscort in anything but the Tvaro and maybe the Dhelan.
I get it. You have an axe to grind about warbirds. I compared the T6 KDF to the T6 Romulan battlecruisers. The KDF get the better ship and battlecloak, more turn, inertia and hull. It does not lose the 40 power. It is a better ship. Considering the devs stated that the intel ships (Qib) are supposed to be weaker in hull than their counterparts you cannot continue to argue that roms are not being penalized going forward when the KDF intel ship has battlecloak and more hull than the generic T6 rom ship.
However, you are stuck in LoR and still mad about it. You cannot distinguish friendly conversation with real complaining. I merely don't agree with you that they are as OP as you think they are. I did not dispute that they have some OPness to them. It really boils down to the boffs and Valdore console. The singularity stuff is a crappy tradeoff that Roms are saddled with. Aside from the shorter cloak CD (from the boffs) the Qib will be a little better in every stat despite being an intel ship :cool: I would love to drop the singularity core and use a warp core on my roms from time to time. If you gave players the option, you have to wonder what percentage would opt for the singularity core versus the warp core equivalents. Now that non BoPs are getting battlecloaks and better stats with cruiser commands . . . it is time to ask that question.