Its like refusing to watch the best of both worlds because Picard is forced to do something against his will, and then deciding never to watch any star trek that takes place after because a key part of the story bothers you.
your character is being brainwashed into doing these things. if you totally get yourself into the experience then yes its nasty but nasty things happen to good people in storytelling.
Oh btw I am one of those whiners about KDF because I think the best of the Klingons are the house of Mogh and Martok, not the Durass brats, or all the other clowns who drove the empire into the ground. Most of all Khaless. Not Klang or Chang. Although Chang is awesome, and Kor went out like a champ.
Every time I think I have seen the most insane and hilarious thing some RPer could come up with to complain about you guys top yourselves. Keep it up, I need amusement to hold me over till DR.
And on a serious note, if your fragile little RPer immersion cannot handle it then just beam out, go find something to shoot for a bit till you go up a level, then hit the skip button. Oh wait let me guess, you'll know what you did and not be able to live with it. :eek:
This is not hardcore RP, this is pedantry from someone who simply gets a kick out of whining to make up for their own shortcomings.
I'm going with this in other games I've played with the hardcore rpers, they generally work within the game, in fact thats how you tell a passable or less so rper from a good one.
they definitely would remember they are brainwash and probably enjoy the chance to be ooc evil.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Quite simply put, I absolutely refuse to mutilate an innocent (and attractive) Romulan woman to death with Borg implants, period. I struggled with it in the course of the mission, found no way around it, and finally hit the "beam out" button. I cannot finish that mission but without it, my story progress and in-character continuity is destroyed. Basically, this mission kills my character because it forces her to go in directions that are absolutely beyond the pale. I might as well delete her at this point and say she killed herself to save that woman.
1) You're under mind control.
2) You're a Romulan, you're probably more likely to sacrifice someone else to save your own skin.
3) Pretend you outfoxed the game, you really did manage to euthanise her or disable the implants but somehow make them look active.
4) You are a Romulan not a human, you have completely different morels anyway.
5) It's a game. A game that provides a 'skip mission' button.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Divide et Impera is a Fed mission where an Undine tricks you into attacking a Romulan spacestation. It turns out that this station was in fact being used for exactly what the Romulans said it was being used for and the Undine did this for no reason beyond stirring up trouble between the RSE and UFP.
I guess you're not a real Romulan, go play a care bear Fed. Romulans are sneaky and underhanded, and only do things to for the good of themselves and or the good of the Empire.
I guess you're not a real Romulan, go play a care bear Fed. Romulans are sneaky and underhanded, and only do things to for the good of themselves and or the good of the Empire.
While I think you are being too aggressive in your post I do agree with your point. If you are choosing to play an alien Faction then you need to expect that you will do alien things which do not fit into human morality codes. We have many episodes of Star Trek that let us see what type of beings Romulans are. The Enterprise saves a Romulan ship and they try to be sneaky and blow up the Enterprise with feedback from the energy transfer. They put a Vulcan invasion force in reunification shuttles. They brainwashed Geordi and tried to use him and his visor on the Enterprise, etc. They tried to start a war between Humans, Andorians, Vulcans, and Tellarites. These were not just the Tal'shiar Romulans doing these things.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I guess you're not a real Romulan, go play a care bear Fed. Romulans are sneaky and underhanded, and only do things to for the good of themselves and or the good of the Empire.
Not all Romulans are Tal Shiar lackeys. The Empire is for all intents and purposes dead..... we have the Republic now which is heavily influenced by the Reunificationists.
And we've all forgotten you actually get a free passive ground trait out of the mission that goes in the "Others" space at the bottom (meaning it does not take up an active slot and is always there. It's the same spot Tour of the galaxy's "Well Traveled" goes into).
Deprogramed, with does 3% extra damage to Elachi and makes you imming to the Elachi gas cloud's damage de-buff.
I remember when LoR first came out, a few people said Mind Games was setting off their PTSD.
Someone else pointed out "If this makes you stop and think, then Cryptic is doing their job right"
Cause I don't remember Star Trek being all happy and smiles and puppies every episode and movie.
Another example would be TNG 5x14 "Conundrum", where the crew's memories are all wiped, the computer uploaded with false data, and a alien spy sent aboard to coerce the Enterprise into fighting his people's war for them. The crew even destroys a few ships, which is what clues Picard into something wrong. The targets were demolished by the Enterprise like a sledge hammer through tissue paper. If the Federation was truly at war with them, it would have lasted about 5 mintues.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
We also had Romulans who came to the aid of the Enterprise on more than one occasion and humans committing murder. Let's not get too carried away with stereotypes here.
I am not getting "carried away." I am simply stating that it is not unreasonable to assume an alien Faction does not act the same way as a human. If Vulcans did not act like Vulcans then what is the point of playing a Vulcan? It is the same with Romulans or Klingons. Romulans are expected to be sneaky and underhanded; that is their racial Trait. The vast majority of Romulan encounters in the series prove that out - and the vast majority of Romulans seen in the episodes were not Tal'shiar.
And if you are referring to Nemesis, the Romulans were more interested in killing Shinzon then helping the Enterprise.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
At least OP is carried away by the story. An attitude I prefer a thousand times above the kind of player that just plays 'been here, done that'. I always set my character against the setting, the story, asking would this person do such things, getting involved in these circumstances?
I was invited for closed beta and was impressed by the stories of LoR. I had the same feelings playing this mission. And perhaps there is a downside with good story missions. They fill in the character to deeply, put too much colour on it and there is not much left over for me, the player.
I do play the most with my KDF/Orion characters who are freetraders and mercenaries. Their past and circumstances are not filled in with such a detail. With them I can do whatever want, go wherever I want.
I end with a suggestion and apologize for going a little off topic. Players that have leveled a character should be able to start at a higher level if they want and skipping the starting missions. When you have played them, no matter how good they are (and I think they are), their appetite is lost.
Personally, I find "the search for new romulus" unconscionable. Without even the flimsy justification of brainwashing, your captain willingly - enthusiastically - ambushes and kills a team of archaeologists.
Personally, I find "the search for new romulus" unconscionable. Without even the flimsy justification of brainwashing, your captain willingly - enthusiastically - ambushes and kills a team of archaeologists.
My God, I can't believe I just read through this whole thread. Anyway, this dude I quoted has made a wonderful point. Early in your career as a romulan looking for a new home world, you kill some aliens and proclaim," I was here first!"
Why didn't this set you into a hissy fit? Why no rage quit? Just because they were Tholian doesn't excuse you from your murders!
My God, I can't believe I just read through this whole thread. Anyway, this dude I quoted has made a wonderful point. Early in your career as a romulan looking for a new home world, you kill some aliens and proclaim," I was here first!"
Why didn't this set you into a hissy fit? Why no rage quit? Just because they were Tholian doesn't excuse you from your murders!
Well, there is the fact that if you try to talk to them, the Tholians start shooting first...
Darthmeow, I think you'll be pleased at the end of the mission on Brea III later in the game. I won't spoil it more than that, save to say that I found it wonderfully cathartic.
And to some of the other posters here: Don't schools teach about punctuation and capitalization any more? Bad enough when it's a wall of text - a wall of text presented as one massive run-on sentence becomes completely unreadable. Even if you have a point, it becomes lost.
Remember, proper punctuation is the difference between:
And to some of the other posters here: Don't schools teach about punctuation and capitalization any more? Bad enough when it's a wall of text - a wall of text presented as one massive run-on sentence becomes completely unreadable. Even if you have a point, it becomes lost.
No they teach them where the grammar check button is, and this forum doesn't have that option so they are incapable of coping on their own.
I am one of the fortunate ones who slipped through as the system was collapsing in on itself, anyone a year younger than me is incapable of writing, let alone understanding the function of a dictionary (to them, it is just "right click when you see the red squiggly line").
Well, there is the fact that if you try to talk to them, the Tholians start shooting first...
Darthmeow, I think you'll be pleased at the end of the mission on Brea III later in the game. I won't spoil it more than that, save to say that I found it wonderfully cathartic.
And to some of the other posters here: Don't schools teach about punctuation and capitalization any more? Bad enough when it's a wall of text - a wall of text presented as one massive run-on sentence becomes completely unreadable. Even if you have a point, it becomes lost.
Remember, proper punctuation is the difference between:
"Let's eat, Grandma!"
and:
"Let's eat Grandma!"
mmmmmmm Grandma is so tasty
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If you don't want to do the mission because it makes you uncomfortable, then skip it.
However, the mission does provide insight into how Tal'Shiar recruit people into their ranks. Additionally, well written novels generally pull you into the story because they provoke an emotional response; positive or negative depending on the intent.
As stated before, when play STO you are accepting the fact that your toon is in a faction's military of your choice. Thus, as part of the military you go on missions that involves either attacking or defending against other military factions. This usually involves killing people.
Should you decide to do the mission you have the option to resist doing the inevitable (because you are being controlled) or to fully comply with your orders. At the end of the mission you get an accolade depending on the path you choose.
If something like this is extremely disturbing to you then I suggest you avoid playing Grand Theft Auto V. There is a point in the storyline where one of the three characters you control (Trevor) will voluntarily torture another person. That mission cannot be skipped at all because it must be done to progress the story to the next point.
And this is one of the great flaws in Trek fandom AND in some Trek stories: Human psychology displaced on ALIEN psychology. This is where we get Fed players crying about KDF having no honor when they don't even have a clue what it means to Klingons, never mind the fact they probably don't even know the definitions from Merriam-Webster. The same can definitely be said of Romulans, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the OP's character is a Fed-side Romulan.
Give me a break. If Klingons had an actual consistent definition for "honor" you'd have a leg to stand on. The Feds and Romulans are more honorable than the KDF because the KDF doesn't have honor. To the average Klingon the word means "flimsy excuse to act like a drunken bully and kill a motherfrakker and not feel guilty about it", based in circular reasoning: "I am honorable, therefore whatever sh*tty thing I do is honorable, therefore I am honorable for doing it."
At least the Romulans are honest. They kill you because you present a threat to their national interests, not because of a word whose definition changes every time they open their mouths. /derail
Is this the mission where tovan is in your head and he is appalled by what you do? Cause if it is, i love this mission.
"You don't like that tovan?. Good, i'm going to do some more stuff that you don't like."
Honestly, I think that was a way bigger immersion-breaker in "Mind Game" than seeing Morgan unable to stop herself from experimenting on a POW.
The way I RP'd it was, this was all real. You were forced to commit those horrible acts, because brainwashing. But even indoctrinated, Morgan t'Thavrau had this little voice in her head, saying "NO!" with every fiber of her being. It wasn't Tovan. It was her own will, battered and chained, but unbroken.
And then when she was freed of it, she made it her personal mission to utterly obliterate Hakeev and everything he and his ilk held dear, starting with his ship, and to create a new future without people like him in it. Her fondest dream? To be able to one day retire and rebuild her winery on Virinat in peace, safe in the assurance that people like Hakeev and his Iconian masters will never trouble any Rihanha anywhere ever again.
(Damn, now I want to novelize this mission. It's on my to-do list for Morgan as of now.)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
your character is being brainwashed into doing these things. if you totally get yourself into the experience then yes its nasty but nasty things happen to good people in storytelling.
Oh btw I am one of those whiners about KDF because I think the best of the Klingons are the house of Mogh and Martok, not the Durass brats, or all the other clowns who drove the empire into the ground. Most of all Khaless. Not Klang or Chang. Although Chang is awesome, and Kor went out like a champ.
And on a serious note, if your fragile little RPer immersion cannot handle it then just beam out, go find something to shoot for a bit till you go up a level, then hit the skip button. Oh wait let me guess, you'll know what you did and not be able to live with it. :eek:
I'm going with this in other games I've played with the hardcore rpers, they generally work within the game, in fact thats how you tell a passable or less so rper from a good one.
they definitely would remember they are brainwash and probably enjoy the chance to be ooc evil.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
What happens in that?
very much agree my god its a game not real life and really this person should never ever play a fed!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
1) You're under mind control.
2) You're a Romulan, you're probably more likely to sacrifice someone else to save your own skin.
3) Pretend you outfoxed the game, you really did manage to euthanise her or disable the implants but somehow make them look active.
4) You are a Romulan not a human, you have completely different morels anyway.
5) It's a game. A game that provides a 'skip mission' button.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The mission is infamous because only a na
My character Tsin'xing
It's a game?
Not all Romulans are Tal Shiar lackeys. The Empire is for all intents and purposes dead..... we have the Republic now which is heavily influenced by the Reunificationists.
Deprogramed, with does 3% extra damage to Elachi and makes you imming to the Elachi gas cloud's damage de-buff.
I remember when LoR first came out, a few people said Mind Games was setting off their PTSD.
Someone else pointed out "If this makes you stop and think, then Cryptic is doing their job right"
Cause I don't remember Star Trek being all happy and smiles and puppies every episode and movie.
Another example would be TNG 5x14 "Conundrum", where the crew's memories are all wiped, the computer uploaded with false data, and a alien spy sent aboard to coerce the Enterprise into fighting his people's war for them. The crew even destroys a few ships, which is what clues Picard into something wrong. The targets were demolished by the Enterprise like a sledge hammer through tissue paper. If the Federation was truly at war with them, it would have lasted about 5 mintues.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
And if you are referring to Nemesis, the Romulans were more interested in killing Shinzon then helping the Enterprise.
The killing I mean.
Afterall, we kill people by the hundreds and thousands each time we blast a ship out of the stars. We think nothing of it, it's just a ship.
But when you have to get your own hands dirty, even if involuntary, it becomes much more real and much more repugnant.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I was invited for closed beta and was impressed by the stories of LoR. I had the same feelings playing this mission. And perhaps there is a downside with good story missions. They fill in the character to deeply, put too much colour on it and there is not much left over for me, the player.
I do play the most with my KDF/Orion characters who are freetraders and mercenaries. Their past and circumstances are not filled in with such a detail. With them I can do whatever want, go wherever I want.
I end with a suggestion and apologize for going a little off topic. Players that have leveled a character should be able to start at a higher level if they want and skipping the starting missions. When you have played them, no matter how good they are (and I think they are), their appetite is lost.
"You don't like that tovan?. Good, i'm going to do some more stuff that you don't like."
My God, I can't believe I just read through this whole thread. Anyway, this dude I quoted has made a wonderful point. Early in your career as a romulan looking for a new home world, you kill some aliens and proclaim," I was here first!"
Why didn't this set you into a hissy fit? Why no rage quit? Just because they were Tholian doesn't excuse you from your murders!
Darthmeow, I think you'll be pleased at the end of the mission on Brea III later in the game. I won't spoil it more than that, save to say that I found it wonderfully cathartic.
And to some of the other posters here: Don't schools teach about punctuation and capitalization any more? Bad enough when it's a wall of text - a wall of text presented as one massive run-on sentence becomes completely unreadable. Even if you have a point, it becomes lost.
Remember, proper punctuation is the difference between:
"Let's eat, Grandma!"
and:
"Let's eat Grandma!"
No they teach them where the grammar check button is, and this forum doesn't have that option so they are incapable of coping on their own.
I am one of the fortunate ones who slipped through as the system was collapsing in on itself, anyone a year younger than me is incapable of writing, let alone understanding the function of a dictionary (to them, it is just "right click when you see the red squiggly line").
mmmmmmm Grandma is so tasty
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Yes, it is and it is my favorite mission in the game.
My Rommie is evil and loves the Tal'Shiar. She happily helps them at every opportunity.
The Wolf thought so.
However, the mission does provide insight into how Tal'Shiar recruit people into their ranks. Additionally, well written novels generally pull you into the story because they provoke an emotional response; positive or negative depending on the intent.
As stated before, when play STO you are accepting the fact that your toon is in a faction's military of your choice. Thus, as part of the military you go on missions that involves either attacking or defending against other military factions. This usually involves killing people.
Should you decide to do the mission you have the option to resist doing the inevitable (because you are being controlled) or to fully comply with your orders. At the end of the mission you get an accolade depending on the path you choose.
If something like this is extremely disturbing to you then I suggest you avoid playing Grand Theft Auto V. There is a point in the storyline where one of the three characters you control (Trevor) will voluntarily torture another person. That mission cannot be skipped at all because it must be done to progress the story to the next point.
Give me a break. If Klingons had an actual consistent definition for "honor" you'd have a leg to stand on. The Feds and Romulans are more honorable than the KDF because the KDF doesn't have honor. To the average Klingon the word means "flimsy excuse to act like a drunken bully and kill a motherfrakker and not feel guilty about it", based in circular reasoning: "I am honorable, therefore whatever sh*tty thing I do is honorable, therefore I am honorable for doing it."
At least the Romulans are honest. They kill you because you present a threat to their national interests, not because of a word whose definition changes every time they open their mouths. /derail
Honestly, I think that was a way bigger immersion-breaker in "Mind Game" than seeing Morgan unable to stop herself from experimenting on a POW.
The way I RP'd it was, this was all real. You were forced to commit those horrible acts, because brainwashing. But even indoctrinated, Morgan t'Thavrau had this little voice in her head, saying "NO!" with every fiber of her being. It wasn't Tovan. It was her own will, battered and chained, but unbroken.
And then when she was freed of it, she made it her personal mission to utterly obliterate Hakeev and everything he and his ilk held dear, starting with his ship, and to create a new future without people like him in it. Her fondest dream? To be able to one day retire and rebuild her winery on Virinat in peace, safe in the assurance that people like Hakeev and his Iconian masters will never trouble any Rihanha anywhere ever again.
(Damn, now I want to novelize this mission. It's on my to-do list for Morgan as of now.)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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