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  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,797 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I love how mixed the feedback is.

    As for me, I'll wait and see what the max-crafting kiddies charge for the upgrade parts before I render judgement. Not costing dil should in theory keep prices down just be virtue of them being cheaper to mass produce, but if the demand is such that idiots are willing to pay massive EC for them, then it may not mean much. I want nothing to do with this grindy crafting system myself, only bothering to do it in Beams school because I really want some omni-directional phasers and I don't feel like paying the insane prices being charged on the Exchange. Stll, this will have the pleasant side effect of allowing me to upgrade my beams with my own upgrade baubles, so there's that.
  • tilarium1979tilarium1979 Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Massive
    Multiplayer
    Online
    Role
    Playing
    Game

    Don't see any mention of 'grind' in there.

    And I don't see Role Playing in the Game either, point?
  • jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Did you READ the question I asked? Because I was asking if the upgrade system was the ONLY way to get MkXIV gear (if I mcan also buy it and/or it also drops, fime, then they AREN'T double dipping and following in tthe footsteps of other MMO models (which is fine.)

    But, if the ONLY way to get MkXIV is to BUY a MkXII Fleet or other item and then have to use the Upgrade system to get what you just bought to MkXIV <--- That IS double-dipping on the playerbase.

    TLDR: aGo back and re-read what I asked. As you obviously didn't bother to read the question fully.

    i was only responding to the double dipping comment (IE ignoring the stuff i dont know yet) .....thanks....bye
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,218 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I may hit Lvl15 in a few schools before christmas, and i've been on it since day 1 (wanted the omni-beams primarily). But since I don't have millions of dil to waste on levelling the system, it goes up so unbearably slowly.
    Are you only leveling via research project? If so, that's the reason why.

    Crafting gives double the exp that does. Craft a Mk X item for 3 hours, it's worth 6 hours of the research project.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jheinig wrote: »
    Here are some answers to some of those question marks that are floating over your heads!

    * Upgrading Item Mark is Always Successful

    When your item gains enough Tech Points to upgrade to a higher Mark, this operation always succeeds. Your Mark 12 Breen shield will become a Mark 13 Breen shield with no failure chance. It's only when your item reaches maximum Mark and you are trying to improve its quality (color) that there is a chance that the upgrade won't succeed -- but even then, you keep your quality improvement chance and add to it for the next upgrade, and eventually you will reach a 100% chance of quality improvement.

    * Item mods are not re-rolled

    Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
    For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.

    * Epic (Gold) items have special bonus mods

    The bonus mod for an item at Epic (Gold) quality is a unique special mod that doesn't otherwise appear, generally more powerful than other mods. These are:
    Space Shield: [Cp/Rg] Combined capacity/regen boost
    Space Impulse Engine: [Drv2] Overcharged driver coil, double coil bonus
    Space Deflector: [SS/SI] Interlaced integrity, structural integrity/shield systems combined bonus
    Space Weapon: [Ac/Dm]: Bonus accuracy/damage combo
    Ground Shield: [Cap2] Double capacity bonus
    Ground Armor: [ResAll/HP] Bonus HP and bonus resist all damage
    Ground Weapon: [Dm/CrH] Bonus damage and critical chance combo

    * Your item can't accidentally out-level you

    If you aren't a max level captain, you can't upgrade an item past the Mark that you can currently use. You don't need to worry about accidentally making a good piece of gear unusable.

    * Making Tech Upgrades doesn't cost crafters dilithium

    Tech Upgrades do not require dilithium to make; the dilithium cost is on use. This means that crafters don't have to worry about spending their dilithium to make Tech Upgrades for their friends and fleet, or for sale on the Exchange.

    * Set Gear

    As part of the upgrade system implementation, we've made set bonuses Mark-independent. This means that you can have Jem'Hadar shields Mk 10, deflector Mk 11, engines Mk 12, and still get the three-piece set bonus.

    * Levelless items
    Many pieces of levelless gear will stop receiving bonuses at level 50. After this, you can upgrade the item and it will gain a Mark, and will then improve after this. This will allow your levelless gear to actually keep up with your other gear, since Mk 12 gear is actually above level 50 and Mk 14 is even better than that.

    * Special Mission Rewards
    Almost everything you can get should be upgradeable. As noted in the blog, you can upgrade Breen set gear, caustic plasma beams, Hargh'peng torpedoes -- if you're on Tribble and you find something that you can't upgrade, post on the Tribble forum.

    Thanks Jesse. This is an important post. I was really apprehensive of the upgrade system until you confirmed that mods don't get re-rolled. That's a critical piece of info that's missing from the blog.

    (psssst, these should be added to an FAQ at the bottom)

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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,304 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jheinig wrote: »
    Here are some answers to some of those question marks that are floating over your heads!

    *hugs Jheinig for taking the time to post some additional tidbits that weren't in the blog!*
    * Upgrading Item Mark is Always Successful

    When your item gains enough Tech Points to upgrade to a higher Mark, this operation always succeeds. Your Mark 12 Breen shield will become a Mark 13 Breen shield with no failure chance. It's only when your item reaches maximum Mark and you are trying to improve its quality (color) that there is a chance that the upgrade won't succeed -- but even then, you keep your quality improvement chance and add to it for the next upgrade, and eventually you will reach a 100% chance of quality improvement.

    In other words, you can work on simply upgrading your tech and worry about quality improvement later.
    * Item mods are not re-rolled

    Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
    For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.

    I honestly love the fact that we can gain specific mods on the reputation gear.


    * Epic (Gold) items have special bonus mods

    The bonus mod for an item at Epic (Gold) quality is a unique special mod that doesn't otherwise appear, generally more powerful than other mods. These are:
    Space Shield: [Cp/Rg] Combined capacity/regen boost
    Space Impulse Engine: [Drv2] Overcharged driver coil, double coil bonus
    Space Deflector: [SS/SI] Interlaced integrity, structural integrity/shield systems combined bonus
    Space Weapon: [Ac/Dm]: Bonus accuracy/damage combo
    Ground Shield: [Cap2] Double capacity bonus
    Ground Armor: [ResAll/HP] Bonus HP and bonus resist all damage
    Ground Weapon: [Dm/CrH] Bonus damage and critical chance combo

    That'll give people a reason to shoot for epic gear!
    * Your item can't accidentally out-level you

    If you aren't a max level captain, you can't upgrade an item past the Mark that you can currently use. You don't need to worry about accidentally making a good piece of gear unusable.

    I honestly expected this. It makes sense that you can't upgrade past the Mark you can currently use. This system though means that once crafting unlocks, people won't be throwing away old gear!
    * Making Tech Upgrades doesn't cost crafters dilithium

    Tech Upgrades do not require dilithium to make; the dilithium cost is on use. This means that crafters don't have to worry about spending their dilithium to make Tech Upgrades for their friends and fleet, or for sale on the Exchange.

    Not a heavy dilthium sink. If we take the upgrade example from the blog, it won't cost people more than a day's worth of dilithium to upgrade at the most.

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  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    wowso I can upgard my breen and jem hadar equipment brilliant
    NO TO ARC
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  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So if I read that response correctly, If it doesn't upgrade in quality ( Not mk, in quality) the points carry over and adds to your next chance of improving it?
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  • tilarium1979tilarium1979 Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Cant wait to upgrade the Phaser BeamPistol - Standard Issue that you can get from the Replicator.

    Its the most accurate phaser pistol we have when it comes to size and looks.

    I always wanted to have a Handheld Phaser without the holographic stuff in a reasonable size. Currently the higher the MK the bigger the pistol is. :D

    So if I read this blog correct it should be possible to upgrade anything.

    Yes, I read the same thing in the blog and thought the same thing. Hate the gigantic Klingon weapons and the Holographic fed weapons.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    OK, so if I've read this correctly, tier 5 in a crafting school lets you build packs cheaply that are then applied using dilithium to individual items.

    Well, so long as the dilithium price point isn't too high then I see no problem.

    However, if that price point is, say, greater than a days refining on one toon, then we may be looking at something a bit too pricey.

    Depends on the details, which we dont have yet.


    I do have one query though, sorry if iots been asked/answered before.

    I have a mark XII space set, after following the correct procedure I upgrade the engines to MK XIII.

    Do I still get my three piece set bonus, or do i lose it until all three pieces are the same mark? And, if one get a quality boost, does that effect the bonus elgibility?
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    How many upgrade kits will need to be applied for VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIII

    Potentially a lot of dilithium there

    and its still just a "chance" to upgrade not guaranteed

    x7 weapons average and x10 consoles on each ship
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,072 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Meh. No interest at all in the new crafting system.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yes, I read the same thing in the blog and thought the same thing. Hate the gigantic Klingon weapons and the Holographic fed weapons.

    Indeed, For my KDF character theres a good chance I'll be going for an upgrade on the retro disruptor pistol
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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    and so begins the LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG road to gold mk14 versions of all your gear, were gear can now fully be a replacement for skill, and the unapproachability of pvp reaches critical mass.

    Well, yes, I see the down side for Grind/Pay-To-Win ruling PvP.

    On the other hand, it may be that it's worth it to some of the PvPers to keep their edge and that will translate into more sales for Cryptic.

    Personally, I can foresee the distinct possibility that I won't bother with gear upgrades at all. Or at least, I won't want to do it indiscriminately.

    I agree with the posters who are saying that we need to understand the dilithium costs and such before we can write it off. It seems like a very good complement to the R&D system, if nothing else, and will get even better when the R&D system lets you customize some of your mods.

    If upgraded gear can be traded, it makes Crafting as a character occupation viable within the game's economy system. I have a feeling that if it started out unbound, it will stay unbound. That's a huge implication right there.
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  • spaceshipfoodfspaceshipfoodf Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Massive
    Multiplayer
    Online
    Role
    Playing
    Grind

    Don't see any mention of 'grind' in there.


    There you go.
  • sekritagentsekritagent Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It's helpful to know how much effort it will take to upgrade everything. With that said, I was right to aggressively consolidate various ships.
    Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard? :(
  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    adverbero wrote: »
    So if I read that response correctly, If it doesn't upgrade in quality ( Not mk, in quality) the points carry over and adds to your next chance of improving it?

    Yes. /10char
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    How many upgrade kits will need to be applied for VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIII

    Potentially a lot of dilithium there

    and its still just a "chance" to upgrade not guaranteed

    x7 weapons average and x10 consoles on each ship

    I don't think you read the dev's post. Going from MK XII to MMK XIII will always happen, the lottery part is the quality upgrade.
  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    belanna58 wrote: »
    2 toons, no dil by the time i use it on rep gear or fleet projects


    time to find another game that isnt all about greed and grind.

    Seen a lot of people sayin same thing actually, people leaving, maybe dis is what craptic wants :confused:
    good luck with finding an mmo that doesnt involve grinds, sinks or real money input.
    this game may not be perfect and many of us may whine about stuff, but as far as
    i'm concerned, this game has the best F2P model on the market. i cant decide if you
    are just young, nieve or 'hit yourself on the head with a soft plush tribble' crazy. but
    happy travels either way.
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  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jheinig wrote: »
    Here are some answers to some of those question marks that are floating over your heads!

    * Upgrading Item Mark is Always Successful

    When your item gains enough Tech Points to upgrade to a higher Mark, this operation always succeeds. Your Mark 12 Breen shield will become a Mark 13 Breen shield with no failure chance. It's only when your item reaches maximum Mark and you are trying to improve its quality (color) that there is a chance that the upgrade won't succeed -- but even then, you keep your quality improvement chance and add to it for the next upgrade, and eventually you will reach a 100% chance of quality improvement.

    * Item mods are not re-rolled

    Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
    For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.

    * Epic (Gold) items have special bonus mods

    The bonus mod for an item at Epic (Gold) quality is a unique special mod that doesn't otherwise appear, generally more powerful than other mods. These are:
    Space Shield: [Cp/Rg] Combined capacity/regen boost
    Space Impulse Engine: [Drv2] Overcharged driver coil, double coil bonus
    Space Deflector: [SS/SI] Interlaced integrity, structural integrity/shield systems combined bonus
    Space Weapon: [Ac/Dm]: Bonus accuracy/damage combo
    Ground Shield: [Cap2] Double capacity bonus
    Ground Armor: [ResAll/HP] Bonus HP and bonus resist all damage
    Ground Weapon: [Dm/CrH] Bonus damage and critical chance combo

    * Your item can't accidentally out-level you

    If you aren't a max level captain, you can't upgrade an item past the Mark that you can currently use. You don't need to worry about accidentally making a good piece of gear unusable.

    * Making Tech Upgrades doesn't cost crafters dilithium

    Tech Upgrades do not require dilithium to make; the dilithium cost is on use. This means that crafters don't have to worry about spending their dilithium to make Tech Upgrades for their friends and fleet, or for sale on the Exchange.

    * Set Gear

    As part of the upgrade system implementation, we've made set bonuses Mark-independent. This means that you can have Jem'Hadar shields Mk 10, deflector Mk 11, engines Mk 12, and still get the three-piece set bonus.

    * Levelless items
    Many pieces of levelless gear will stop receiving bonuses at level 50. After this, you can upgrade the item and it will gain a Mark, and will then improve after this. This will allow your levelless gear to actually keep up with your other gear, since Mk 12 gear is actually above level 50 and Mk 14 is even better than that.

    * Special Mission Rewards
    Almost everything you can get should be upgradeable. As noted in the blog, you can upgrade Breen set gear, caustic plasma beams, Hargh'peng torpedoes -- if you're on Tribble and you find something that you can't upgrade, post on the Tribble forum.

    That clears a few things up. Thanks for that. :)
  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Meh. No interest at all in the new crafting system.

    You don't need to craft.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    I don't think you read the dev's post. Going from MK XII to MMK XIII will always happen, the lottery part is the quality upgrade.

    Oh, i read it slightly differently.

    The improvement to Mk+1 comes when a threshold of points is reached, automatically.

    As you rightly say, its only the quality boost thats subject to RNG.

    However, there is a question of how many points each pack gives, and how many are needed to reach those thresholds.

    The number of point infusions, or more exactly, the dilithium cost for the apppopriate number of infusions is the query.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    I hope jheinig chimes in again at some point.

    Still have one question open if all set bonuses will be scaling up with quality. If the Breen 3-piece set bonus scales, it might mean they are finally giving some love to older sets.

    2nd curious question:
    Since some of these sets can increase in quality while upgrading. When you have mixed quality, but same mark set items, do you still get the set bonus?
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I have a feeling that gear that only exists at lower tiers won't be upgradeable.

    The Chromodynamic Mk II armor, for example. Since higher mark versions don't already exist in the system, you won't be able to upgrade it. Because there are no base stats for anything like a Mk X Chromodynamic armor and the upgrade system converts the item from low tier to high tier... it doesn't add stats.

    True, or false?
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  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I can craft my SWD into higher marks!

    YES!

    Ok, I'm good and you have my buy in :)
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    Oh, i read it slightly differently.

    The improvement to Mk+1 comes when a threshold of points is reached, automatically.

    As you rightly say, its only the quality boost thats subject to RNG.

    However, there is a question of how many points each pack gives, and how many are needed to reach those thresholds.

    The number of point infusions, or more exactly, the dilithium cost for the apppopriate number of infusions is the query.

    This was from when the Exchange in Holodeck showed TP values (which was patched after I posted it). Look at the TP value needed for a VR mk X item right there.

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=142zbx3&s=8#.VBije_ldW_g
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    "Each time you apply a Tech Upgrade, your item gains tech points. When the item earns enough tech points, it is eligible to upgrade. The number of tech points required to upgrade varies by the type of item, the quality of the item, and the Mark of the item. For example, a green Mark 4 ground weapon and a blue Mark 11 space shield will require different numbers of tech points before they are eligible to upgrade."

    I think the issue we're still at with the upgrading is that, like the current crafting system, your outcomes are random. While the upgrade process is somewhat of an improvement in that you can build up to a Quality improvement even at maximum Mk rating (thanks for the clarification earlier, jheinig), you still have no option to select the [Mods] you receive.

    Yes, we've been told that [Mod] customization is one of their goals with the crafting system... but it was not available at the launch of Season 9.5, has not been announced for X2 - Delta Rising, and we don't know what order of priority that has relative to or within any other current or future projects. Since last time the doffing UI and removal of Exploration and Cluster maps seemed to take priority over finishing [Mod] customization in Season 9.5 dedicated to crafting, I don't hold out a lot of hope for that being available.

    I can wait for [Mod] customization, though... I'd rather have the new things finished and functional than see that added to their plate. More things half-finished does not make for a net win. :P
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  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    *Edit

    I finally got caught up reading and see we've had a response from the Dev Team,
    answers pretty much all the questions tumbling around my head.... Thx Muchly!!
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Dear devs:

    Try to answer questions sooner instead of letting these threads turning into crazy talk. You let these blog posts go out early, and then you don't see responses until around 3:30PM PST or later (4 hours and a half later), and things get completely out of hand.
    i strongly agree with this statement, i appreciate you may not be able to answer all questions
    but you are quite literally throwing yourselves to the lions by not answering at least some of
    concerns raised when the blogs are posted.

    i do recall you guys admit that you needed to work on your communication systems, just after
    Delta Rising was announced - this is a golden opportunity to make good on that.
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  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    2nd curious question:
    Since some of these sets can increase in quality while upgrading. When you have mixed quality, but same mark set items, do you still get the set bonus?

    Yes how is this going to work ??
    Also how many of the upgrade tech will you need ?? 10, 100's ??
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