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How to bring back Lore
mustrumridcully0
Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
The last thing we've heard of Lore that he was deactivated by Data.
How would you bring back Lore? Or do you rather not want to see him back at all?
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Here is what I might do:
Note there is some expanded universe material (e.g. not strictly canon) suggesting that Lore was stored securely by Data, but was destroyed in the crash of the Enterprise D saucer section.
I think it would have made sense if Data would send Lore to Commander Maddox for research, with a strict note to neither reactivate him nor perform any modifications, merely studying the design.
40 years later, some stuff could have happened. IIRC; there is an Isaac Asimov story about two androids that are put in storage and supposedly deactivated, but occasional energy spikes allow them to have a conversation over a very long time span.
This could serve as a basis for one story:
Lore doesn't have any androids or persons to talk to, but his brain is not as inactive as anyone expected - he slowly manages to use some of the modifications he made to himself over time (we've seen him do such modifications before), and contact the local computer. This takes several decades, but he can manipulate the computer to provide him some aid.
He slowly manages to improve his mental capacities but realizes he cannot actually go anywhere.
His body is disassembled and he cannot break the security measures Data and Maddox had put in place - at least not in his current state, . So he changes his plan, and manages to transfer his neuronal pattern to a holographic doctor that serves in the research facility he's stored in. He can't quite avoid triggering an alarm, and so he gets himself a mobile emitter and runs off. He may no longer be an android, but he's still out there, and he's pissed at the world.
The holographic doctor disguise back story would allow us to use this even in game without requiring a likeness of Spiner (because a hologram could look like anyone - it's also not limited to Picardo).
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How would you bring back Lore? Or do you rather not want to see him back at all?
How would you bring back Lore? Or do you rather not want to see him back at all?
---
Here is what I might do:
Note there is some expanded universe material (e.g. not strictly canon) suggesting that Lore was stored securely by Data, but was destroyed in the crash of the Enterprise D saucer section.
I think it would have made sense if Data would send Lore to Commander Maddox for research, with a strict note to neither reactivate him nor perform any modifications, merely studying the design.
40 years later, some stuff could have happened. IIRC; there is an Isaac Asimov story about two androids that are put in storage and supposedly deactivated, but occasional energy spikes allow them to have a conversation over a very long time span.
This could serve as a basis for one story:
Lore doesn't have any androids or persons to talk to, but his brain is not as inactive as anyone expected - he slowly manages to use some of the modifications he made to himself over time (we've seen him do such modifications before), and contact the local computer. This takes several decades, but he can manipulate the computer to provide him some aid.
He slowly manages to improve his mental capacities but realizes he cannot actually go anywhere.
His body is disassembled and he cannot break the security measures Data and Maddox had put in place - at least not in his current state, . So he changes his plan, and manages to transfer his neuronal pattern to a holographic doctor that serves in the research facility he's stored in. He can't quite avoid triggering an alarm, and so he gets himself a mobile emitter and runs off. He may no longer be an android, but he's still out there, and he's pissed at the world.
The holographic doctor disguise back story would allow us to use this even in game without requiring a likeness of Spiner (because a hologram could look like anyone - it's also not limited to Picardo).
---
How would you bring back Lore? Or do you rather not want to see him back at all?
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Comments
I have nothing against the character, but I feel like he's run his course already.
I think it would be extra pointless without Spiner, because Lore almost requires having Data to play off of.
No point in having an Evil Twin without the original around.
That said, I always assumed he'd have been sent to the robotics institute for further study of the Soog-type design. Frankly, given the danger he posed, I'd be surprised if Picard didn't make it clear that no two parts of him were to be kept in the same complex at the same time.
But if you want him revived, I could easily see it as a reactivation by a misguided, possibly arrogant type of researcher who feels he knows better what is best. Like Arik Soong was regarding eugenics.
My character Tsin'xing
I agree, that would be a bit of a problem - on the other hand - such could also serve as a way to give the character an entirely new dimension.
I would expect he'd be angry and go after is brother immediately after reactivation, but... that's actually not what he does after he's rescued floating in deep space after the Crystalline Entity event. He only encountered Data by accident, when his father called the homing beacon for Data and also triggered Lore's. What was Lore up to?
Maybe he actually doesn't want to engage his brother, and rather did his own thing?
I have experienced several Doctor and Sherlock Holmes now, I think a good role can be played well by different actors.
as far as i am aware lore was deactivated and dismantled because lore was such a danger to everything around him, the chances are the technology is either collecting dust in some bunker somewhere held by starfleet intelligence or it was destroyed. either case, lore is no longer and there is no point trying to bring that element onto the game.
just for argument sake the storyline you have constructed is opposite the intended purpose of starfleet and the federation which is the right to choose what a person wants to do with their own lives, not be controlled. maddox only wanted to understand the technology, hes not the type to control others and data himself is far more open minded.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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I want to see villains cast in shades of various grays, not James Bond villains. This is Star Trek, a clean slate where numerous aliens and their cultures often clash with our own human lines of thinking.
Lore was a James Bond villain. Unique one-off that most certainly made Data's character a lot more interesting.
But he isn't someone we need to keep trotting out. That's the kind of repetitive, umimaginative, unoriginal bs that killed Star Trek after Enterprise and Nemesis.
As once mentioned in this thread we dont know what lores goal was when he was experimenting on the borg who is to say he didnt place his mind or concesinous into a machine or body and become an overmind of a new borg faction.
Not one lead by the borg queen but one lead by lore himself for his own agendas
I agree, however, I respectfully suggest that the Doctor and Holmes are not great examples.
In the case of Holmes (and for that matter, Hamlet, Romeo, Gulliver, and a host of others) the character was created without a "face", save for any descriptions given in book or play. It gives an "everyman" quality to a character, allowing every man who fits the basic description to play the character. (frankly, I like seeing the limits to this tweeked once in a while. I'd love to see a play of Hamlet sometime where all the "Danes" are played by actors of African or Asian ancestry, just to showcase their talent)
In video productions though, if a character is not originated by book first, and instead originated by a specific actor, the audience percieves the character and actor as nearly inseparable. This was initially a concern with 2009's Star Trek, and you'll notice that many of the new actors were given makeup and hair stylings to make them resemble the original actors. Bascially easing the viewing audience into accepting an "everyman" viewpoint of the characters. For just such a reason, I suspect should Data ever be recast, they'll have to make the actor appear to be very similar to Spiner.
Incidentally, even if the character is created in book form first, sometimes the actor still becomes fully associated with the character. The question of recasting Tony Stark/Iron Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a huge one because Robert Downey has so made the role his own.
Now The Doctor is a special case. One man was visually, uniquely associated with the role, but when he no longer could continue, they had to do something special: not just recast the role, but recast the character with a new personality and styling. Once Troughton wonderfully convinced the audience that this was a good thing, the exchange of actors could continue, but only if the personality and styling of the Doctor changed as well. To date, I can only thing of one other work where the role was recast in similar fashion, and that was to replace the late Heath Ledger in the Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus.
Also, why in the hell did no one mention Lore when they discovered B4? And given all the trouble Lore made, why in the hell did they reassemble B4 fully? He was already active as just a head, they could have talked ot him and studied him without putting him back together fully.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
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Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Hardly the worst problem with that movie. We can probably put that, along with so many similarly stupid Picard decisions, down to "Picard's a naive idealistic idiot."
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I know. There are elements to the film I like (the score, Romulans being Romulany) and parts that are terrible. But even when I watched it in the cinema the first time, and everyone on the ship was carrying on like they'd never found another data before, I was screaming in my head "WHAT ABOUT LORE?!"
In fact, when they first found B4's head, I thought it WAS Lore making a comeback.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Also, Lore was found on the same planet that Data was found on. B4 was found on a random speck of dirt.... that was home to a pre-warp culture. I would have been surprised too...
My character Tsin'xing
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Kind of in a way. Data is immortal. So this has got to happen eventually. I figured when data sacraficed himself jordi would made it top priority to transfer all of Data's info into the android they found anyways. According to STO's timeline that "Should" have happened 35 years ago. So were has Data been all this time. Since hes been a no show. I figures hes somewhere in the Delta Quadrant. Living with the Borg queen, raiseing a bunch of Borg rug rats.
OMG, he could be introduced as the "Borg King" (I said it first). We might see him iin Delta Rising. That could be a connection to the Liberation of the Borg being a single mind. Data !!! Champion of the Borg.
If someone had never read or seen something of Sherlock Holmes before, and he was presented with the Downy Jr. version first, he would probably react to a different Sherlock interpretation just as you would to a different Data actor.
So I think it's only about how you related to the role, and not the role itself, that makes recasting the character difficult to you or me. But the role itself is not actually that strongly linked to a particular actor.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
even as evil as lore was, starfleet wouldnt want to wipe the mind that is lore, to destroy the very essence of what a being is like that would be opposite the intended moral of the federation's compass.
the juliana tainer android had an inbuilt self destruct on the positronic matrix, basically emulating a natural lifecycle of a human. there wouldnt be anything left when she "died".
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Lore, though, what a terribly underused villain. When you think of all the heroics, all the capabilities Data has, what a fantastic character he turned out to be, and then there's Lore. He gets used only thrice in seven seasons. IMO Brothers, only a guest appearance, was way better than Descent 1/2, which is supposed to be his coup de grace.
Were they just incapable of writing a script that would do Lore justice? All the while inventing even crappier movie adversaries like Soran, the Son'a or Shinzon.
I was thinking the entire time about Section 31 while reading this. Those guys are crazy enough to see that this is to their advantage. Who's to say they didn't add some unknown tech to Lore that makes them think they have control over him, and he ends up playing them.
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section 31 strikes me as the type of group that was interested in defending the federation from its enemies, collecting information on the droid is fine along with its background, schema and such, but i doubt section 31 itself has the resources to create an android let alone not getting noticed in the attempt of constructing such a droid. they may have learned advances reverse engineering some components to help federation science and engineers to create better things that will help in defending the federation, but outright construction of these droids? i doubt section 31 is willing to draw attention to itself by trying.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
I suppose if you were to do a story, having him be fixed, since it was well established that he was flawed, by whoever it is that released the mass market versions and actually have Lore as a protagonist in a story would be cool. Perhaps as the gateway to the new Exploration system they really should be developing for areas other than the Delta Quadrant. Lore, now that he's fixed wishes to find his wayward brother who has been lost as amends for his past mistakes.