A true Romulan is just a Vulcan who likes to show their emotions, that's it. They can go wherever they like because they ultimately are just people.
The choice is yours... so long as it doesn't involve the Tal Shiar or killing your first officer (I think you can replace him as first officer, but you definitely can't get rid of him altogether).
Given the history, a Romulan would be more likely to ally with the Federation that he/she would the Klingons.
The Federation at least has the Vulcans and a chance of the whole reunification thing,... the Romulans and teh Klingons, have been feuding, blood enemies for generations.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Did you consider that the Risians may have made it that way on purpose to attract business and then simply outcompeted other "pleasure worlds" to where they had to diversify? It's also perfectly possible to vacation elsewhere.
hence federation gatherings all featuring the same sort of 'intellectual' musical accompaniment.
I always put that down as a demand of the medium and an acceptable break from reality. It's cheaper for the TV crew to just use some existing music that's in the public domain than to either A) license music that isn't or pay a composer to make something up. (With the latter, also remember that the audience is human.)
the klingon empire on the other hand, dont care so long as they get their oath of fealty.
Which would be why every KDF character except Harza-Kull spams gratuitous tlhIngan Hol and babbles about honorable battle. /sarcasm
Not exactly helping your case here...
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Romulans were never a 'planet of hats'. There were always individuals like Toreth and the reunificationists and the commander of the Klingon POW camp who were different in one way or another.
I think you are mixing up stereotypes with culture. Romulan culture has always been as 'bad guys'. They commit infanticide, genocide, slavery. They are on whole xenophobic and militaristic. Trechery is a socially accepted fact. Reputation is more important than honor. etc.
I am not certain I can agree with you on a whole. The military can commit acts that a people do not know about and would be horrified to learn of. Without marking the whole culture in that manner. And the concept of treachery as a socially accepted fact would make them all looking for the knife in the back. And the Admiral from the Defector would have seen the false information given to him as such. Since he did not see the information as bad, and we have seen Romulans trusting one an other it would seem they are less commonly treacherous to each other.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I was thinking while making choice about the allegiance that there is no reason why a true Romulan would want side with the Feds.
I love Federation side, but as a Romulan I can't see myself joining them.
So my question is - how do you, lore-wise, justify joining Federation?
because when you lost your homeworld, the Federation immediately sent food and aid for years, and still haven't stopped, even though its costing us ships and lives. during that same time, the klingons have tried to systematically exterminate you all. to top it all off your own secret police/government are turning your comrades into fungus people.
because the federation is the only remaining major power in the alpha quadrant with the well being of the Romulan people in mind at all. if the klingons cared they would apologize for the years worth frankly genocidal attacks and return your captured worlds and enslaved/imprisoned comrades.
I was thinking while making choice about the allegiance that there is no reason why a true Romulan would want side with the Feds.
I love Federation side, but as a Romulan I can't see myself joining them.
So my question is - how do you, lore-wise, justify joining Federation?
In a word: Reunification.
Since even the days of TNG, Ambassador Spock spent a great deal of time trying to create a grass roots movement towards reunification, he spent a great time on Romulus and spent a great time cultivating that movement, even going to far as to cultivate it amongst the Romulan leadership.
with the destruction of Romulus and the destruction of the Romulan establishment, but specifically the strangle hold created by the Tal Shiar and the Romulan Traditionalists.
with the Romulans now being a people with out a homeworld and looking to reset themselves down before they basically fizzle out.
D'tan for example was a personal apprentice to Spock during the initial years of Reunification, his own parents had several Vulcan objects, such as a book of their early history and "toys" which where wooden objects with the syllabic nucleus of the Vulcan language engraved on them. So even without Spock his parents encourage learning about Vulcan.
The long and the short of it is that the Reunificationists comprise of most if not all of the survivors of Romulus, of which player character Romulans are assumed to be part of that same movement. So in essence when you play a Rom in STO you ARE a Reunificationist.
So because of that, that would make you interested in communing with Vulcan and its allies the Federation, however because of the destruction of Romulus, it has also created a situation where the more altruistic interests of Reunificationists allowed a more pragmatic view of the Romulan situation.
So the question should be, How can as a Romulan Reunificationist want to join the Klingon Empire?
However that point can be subsequently argued, Security, Weapons Technology, Ship technology more in line with the existing Romulan technology, you name it.
So lore wise it makes sense that the Romulans would seek out allies to strengthen their currently tentative position.
Since even the days of TNG, Ambassador Spock spent a great deal of time trying to create a grass roots movement towards reunification, he spent a great time on Romulus and spent a great time cultivating that movement, even going to far as to cultivate it amongst the Romulan leadership.
with the destruction of Romulus and the destruction of the Romulan establishment, but specifically the strangle hold created by the Tal Shiar and the Romulan Traditionalists.
with the Romulans now being a people with out a homeworld and looking to reset themselves down before they basically fizzle out.
D'tan for example was a personal apprentice to Spock during the initial years of Reunification, his own parents had several Vulcan objects, such as a book of their early history and "toys" which where wooden objects with the syllabic nucleus of the Vulcan language engraved on them. So even without Spock his parents encourage learning about Vulcan.
The long and the short of it is that the Reunificationists comprise of most if not all of the survivors of Romulus, of which player character Romulans are assumed to be part of that same movement. So in essence when you play a Rom in STO you ARE a Reunificationist.
So because of that, that would make you interested in communing with Vulcan and its allies the Federation, however because of the destruction of Romulus, it has also created a situation where the more altruistic interests of Reunificationists allowed a more pragmatic view of the Romulan situation.
So the question should be, How can as a Romulan Reunificationist want to join the Klingon Empire?
However that point can be subsequently argued, Security, Weapons Technology, Ship technology more in line with the existing Romulan technology, you name it.
So lore wise it makes sense that the Romulans would seek out allies to strengthen their currently tentative position.
-AE
you know I never thought of that, that Dtan and the romulans part of his group are actually spocks re-unificationst and after thinking if makes perfect sense cause if you play through the game as a re-unificationst what is it that they say they don't want to be part of tal shiar and there romulan empire that they will defend themselves etc so it makes complete sense that the re-unificationst would want to join starfleet
Because as much as I despise the decadent Federation and Vulcan sympathizers like D'Tan, The Federation is at least a relatively safe ally to be around, and one can usually at least feel safe around them, unlike those barbaric Klingons.
The Klingons are doubly dangerous allies because they realize, like us Romulans, that the only 'natural' way for another species to be incorporated into one's empire is through conquest. As the weaker party in this relationship, Romulan alleis of the Klingon Empire would constantly be in danger of annexation, where the worst we have to worry about in the company of the Federation is the influence of their subversive culture.
Of course, given ideal conditions, we'd go our own way as we always have, without being beholden to any 'allies' at all. But that is unfortunately a political impracticality as long as D'Tan and his sycophants man the upper echelons of the Republic government.
Since even the days of TNG, Ambassador Spock spent a great deal of time trying to create a grass roots movement towards reunification, he spent a great time on Romulus and spent a great time cultivating that movement, even going to far as to cultivate it amongst the Romulan leadership.
with the destruction of Romulus and the destruction of the Romulan establishment, but specifically the strangle hold created by the Tal Shiar and the Romulan Traditionalists.
with the Romulans now being a people with out a homeworld and looking to reset themselves down before they basically fizzle out.
D'tan for example was a personal apprentice to Spock during the initial years of Reunification, his own parents had several Vulcan objects, such as a book of their early history and "toys" which where wooden objects with the syllabic nucleus of the Vulcan language engraved on them. So even without Spock his parents encourage learning about Vulcan.
The long and the short of it is that the Reunificationists comprise of most if not all of the survivors of Romulus, of which player character Romulans are assumed to be part of that same movement. So in essence when you play a Rom in STO you ARE a Reunificationist.
So because of that, that would make you interested in communing with Vulcan and its allies the Federation, however because of the destruction of Romulus, it has also created a situation where the more altruistic interests of Reunificationists allowed a more pragmatic view of the Romulan situation.
So the question should be, How can as a Romulan Reunificationist want to join the Klingon Empire?
However that point can be subsequently argued, Security, Weapons Technology, Ship technology more in line with the existing Romulan technology, you name it.
So lore wise it makes sense that the Romulans would seek out allies to strengthen their currently tentative position.
-AE
Point of order, D'Tan may be the chief of state and a unificationist, but there's little evidence in the storyline that he's overtly pushing his unificationism agenda on his constituents -- he's too busy building a functional government from nothing and keeping the various regional political threats at bay (and being a naive dumbass by sending us into the Delta Quadrant when we're needed more at home). I actually only remember one time he even mentioned it, and that was to a Tal'Shiar officer who was trying to bribe him.
My own Romulan is a Republican patriot, but she's against unification. Reconciliation is one thing -- she wouldn't mind having good relations with Vulcan -- but becoming one with them and losing the Romulan cultural identity is out of the question.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Romulans together with humans/feds are a perfect match genuinely I am dismayed by how many people say they aren't. yes romulans can be sneaky, devious and manipulative however they can be honorable as well as courageous and affectionate. Just like humans they are controlled by emotion including a lack of a true comprehension of other people and cultures fearful of stepping out of their comfort zone. They are us in the 21 century they are us if we never changed if anything what alarmed or disturbed the feds about the roms was not tech or their activities it was the thin line the divided us from them. Now in a time of great distress roms and feds can now work together to achieve a goal and maybe just maybe learn from each-other.
Point of order, D'Tan may be the chief of state and a unificationist, but there's little evidence in the storyline that he's overtly pushing his unificationism agenda ...(and being a naive dumbass by sending us into the Delta Quadrant when we're needed more at home)...
*spoiler alert*
I think we're seeing a lot of the Romulan Achille's Heel in both D'Tan's and Jarok's attitudes in the Jolenae Dyson Sphere. First we have Jarok almost claiming the sphere for the Romulan Republic, then we've got D'Tan trying it again at the conference. I'm not sure it's so much naivete as Romulan arrogance bubbling just beneath the "openly and honestly mending our ways" surface.
Another reason why a Romulan would side with the Federation is to maintain a balance with those siding with the Empire.
The Republic is a fledgling state, built from small colonies and scattered survivors, and so is weak and vulnerable. Had the Romulan Republic sided with just one protector or the other, it would have been simply a client state, if it wasn't absorbed outright by the larger power. However, by maintaining this balance, not only did the Republic establish its independent identity, it also became an indispensable middle-man for contact between the two great powers in conflict, which has proven of enormous importance given the number of threats the powers have had to respond to jointly. This has meant that the Republic quickly became the fulcrum of political power in this region -- which is how it was able to cement its position as literal and figurative gatekeeper of the gate to the Solanae Dyson Sphere.
So, maintaining a balanced relationship with both Federation and Empire has been of the utmost importance.
It crosses my mind that the Romulan Republic is now in a position somewhat analogous to the position Earth was in, just before the founding of the Federation. While Andoria and Vulcan were older and stronger interstellar powers than Earth was at the time, Earth had established itself as a friend to both of them, and critical to resolving their conflict. This placed Earth at the center of the newly established Federation.
Similarly, the Romulan Republic is now the trusted partner of the most powerful states in the region, and at the center of a coalition with strong shared interests and several common enemies.
Some good points on what we know about Romulans beyond the military (an issue for most Trek races really) but also it is that Romulan society has experienced a seismic shift with the loss of the home world. Centuries of Tal Shiar derived policies and an entrenched political elite has ended up being discredited and the political, military and sociological dominance of that elite has been shattered. Essentially, what was a suppressed, minor stream in Romulan political debate has found it's moment and has given an alternative to the Ancien R
I just chose to put my Rom-Borg w/ the Klinks because I was a fan of the TOS Alliance (even w/ the infighting) and the TNG Arc where the Duras Sisters attempted to revive the old alliance. If you want to complain about lack of fluffy, that's fine, but that's why I did it. :P
Why would a real Romulan side with the Federation? QUOTE]
'Cos I got a free T5 Ambassador Class.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm with farmallm and jonsills, after the experience of the Khitomer Conference mission I can't imagine Romulan pride letting them ally with the Klingons.
If you look at it from the player character's POV as an everyday citizen who only knows both groups through propaganda and may not know the Federation sent so much aid, it still makes more sense to side with the Federation just based on resources.
The Klingons keep things dark, dank and filthy. Outfits tend to be worn and torn and bloodied. Their ship interiors are dark and metal. While we all know this is a point of pride among Klingons, to outsiders it basically just says that the Empire doesn't take care of the KDF. And if they don't spare many resources to make their own people comfortable, how many will they spare an allied outsider?
The Federation, on the other hand, just radiates prosperity. Starfleet officers wear spotless uniforms, have impeccable manners, are clearly well-fed and well-equipped. Their ships are well-lit, carpeted, and spacious.
Both of these factions are powerful. The Federation may have gotten complacent in the TNG-era but they are definitely in fighting shape no matter what you may say in your trash talk. But one of these two is stingy with funds and treats you with contempt. The other has resources to burn and a reputation for giving those resources out to allies. When you need not only firepower but extra materials to build a new society, the choice is obvious.
Plus have you looked the the state of the defenses on Qo'nos.
I mean the federation suffers one minor attack on Mars that near as I can tell doesn't accomplish squat and gets a lot of Klingons captured and a major attack that needed an infiltrator to turn the defenses off to work and they were still holding ground in orbit and repairs from said attack were finished in a few weeks at most. So basically Earth is really really hard to attack and almost impossible to do so successfully.
Whereas the Klingons get 1 major attack that pretty much wreaks some of their defenses and has enemy troops actually land on the surface and even attack the Great Hall, and then months later they get a second major attack that almost destroys the planet and needs both the Romulan Republic and the Federation to stop without sabotoge being needed. Meaning Qo'nos looks to be very poorly defended.
I mean would the Romulans really want to side with someone that can barely defend their own homeworld (and no the Romulans having the same difficulty doesn't count seeing as they basically just got the place).
Not to mention the Klingons once destroyed their own moon through incompetence. I mean for pete's sake how the heck does somebody do something that stupid?
seizing control of a major future transit route which opens in your territory is entirely sensible.
Except it doesn't open in their territory. The Jouret system canonically (both TV canon and STO canon) belongs to the Federation.
And the Romulans can't afford foreign adventurism anyway. When you need foreign military assistance just to keep huge numbers of enemy forces from openly wandering around mere kilometers from your capital, sending what little military forces you possess to go dicking around on the other side of the galaxy is the last thing you should be doing.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Jarok and D'Tan show more than an opportunistic attitude in the Dyson storyline. Remember what Jarok said at the start if Surface Tension to the Rom player and D'Tan's angle in talks. They assume that the main reason the Federation objects to them taking control is because the Federation thinks they aren't strong enough. They don't even discuss the idea the Federation has a claim for the property amongst themselves. The whole strategy is argue that they can handle it the job.
It suggests not only things about the Romulan mindset (it can be ours, it should be ours) but their take on the Federation mindset (completely not a threat, despite being the most powerful and rich faction).
The Romulans have too much pride to consider that the Federation's position is not about them.
The Klingons have the same problem. They whine and moan about the Federation not jumping at their word, at them talking things through before attacking and attribute it to cowardice. It doesn't hit them that the Federation talks about things because it actually gets them results in the end. They can't shift their viewpoint enough to really understand what's going on across the Neutral Zone.
That's really why the Federation always wins. The Federation's prone to arrogance too, but it has so many different cultures and interest groups the other major powers can't get a good handle on it as an entity.
Well I take offense at the usage of real Romulan. As if they by default were a species locked by predetermination to follow a single path. They are no more so than Humans who freely choose which religion to follow, which career to engage in, which army to join why should Humans be allowed such diversity and none others in the universe allowed this luxury?
In regard to lore they are actually even less likely to ally with the Klingons.
Allying with either side in this game was simply a lazy means to add a new faction since they would not need to build ALL the elements of the faction. Only half the Romulan leveling experience is Romulan specific, the rest belongs to your chosen faction. Only one Romulan ship at each tier below T5, instead granting access for Fed/KDF ships from T2-T4.
That's what I never understood! The borders in STO are a little... all over the place.
Think of it as the difference between "modern" world borders and "borderlands" as they existed in medieval Europe:
In the modern world, we have highly sophisticated cartography techniques that allow us to determine national borders with "pinpoint accuracy". As a result, we think of a 'border' as a very distinct, almost tangible line on a map with "ours" on one side and "theirs" on the other. Disputes over that line are never "where" the line is, but rather where the line "should be".
In medieval Europe, the thinking was not about lines, because these didn't really exist. Instead, there were spheres of influence about how far one Kingdom's authority and ability to maintain order were, and where the next was. In between were in effect "lawless" or at the very least, "Disputed" lands where you couldn't rely on particular Kingdoms to settle problems even though there would be various claims (although they could arrive, claim it, then leave again). Borders could exist, but they weren't as settled as they are now.
STO borders are more like medieval borders. If you look at the STO Galaxy Map, it even shows areas clearly in control of one faction, but that the colour fades so you can't really definitively say if for example, Drozana is in Federation or Klingon territory. Rather than "ours" and "theirs", it's more like "Definitely ours", "We have a claim", "Definitely theirs", and "nobody knows".
Well I take offense at the usage of real Romulan. As if they by default were a species locked by predetermination to follow a single path. They are no more so than Humans who freely choose which religion to follow, which career to engage in, which army to join why should Humans be allowed such diversity and none others in the universe allowed this luxury?
Considering how their Vulcan ancestors all chose to follow a "single path" away from their homeworld...
Anyhow, no one is saying they ALL fit a certain mold, but there certainly has been a GENERALIZED depiction of how they are portrayed which they should. Much like most Klingons are about battle, personal honor and glory, so Romulans are passionate about anger and vengeance towards anyone who does them wrong, and enacting it in a covert manner with arrogance and extreme prejudice.
They are my favorite Trek race because of this and more. They are Vulcans evolved and unbridled by emotional control, and have created an Empire based on all the qualities I mentioned above. They are quite the antithesis of the Federation, and that's exactly why I like them as much as I do.
Considering how their Vulcan ancestors all chose to follow a "single path" away from their homeworld...
Anyhow, no one is saying they ALL fit a certain mold, but there certainly has been a GENERALIZED depiction of how they are portrayed which they should. Much like most Klingons are about battle, personal honor and glory, so Romulans are passionate about anger and vengeance towards anyone who does them wrong, and enacting it in a covert manner with arrogance and extreme prejudice.
They are my favorite Trek race because of this and more. They are Vulcans evolved and unbridled by emotional control, and have created an Empire based on all the qualities I mentioned above. They are quite the antithesis of the Federation, and that's exactly why I like them as much as I do.
Oh we could get into a serious debate centered around Surak and the Raptor Star LOL
But yes, all in all I agree with you. Romulans are passionate. It is that passion which drives them to greatness and, ultimately, that which leads them to their ruin.
Comments
Because you hate Klingons, and because Crypt... errr, D'tan doesn't give you any other choice.
The choice is yours... so long as it doesn't involve the Tal Shiar or killing your first officer (I think you can replace him as first officer, but you definitely can't get rid of him altogether).
What's a 'true Romulan'?
Are humans the only creatures allowed to have different personalities? Different goals? That'd be kind of sad.
The Federation at least has the Vulcans and a chance of the whole reunification thing,... the Romulans and teh Klingons, have been feuding, blood enemies for generations.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Did you consider that the Risians may have made it that way on purpose to attract business and then simply outcompeted other "pleasure worlds" to where they had to diversify? It's also perfectly possible to vacation elsewhere.
I always put that down as a demand of the medium and an acceptable break from reality. It's cheaper for the TV crew to just use some existing music that's in the public domain than to either A) license music that isn't or
Which would be why every KDF character except Harza-Kull spams gratuitous tlhIngan Hol and babbles about honorable battle. /sarcasm
Not exactly helping your case here...
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
STOs Lore states that the Klingons in very recent times took advantage of the turmoil in Romulan space.
The Federation has been streaming humanitarian aid into Romulan space since that turmoil began.
I am not certain I can agree with you on a whole. The military can commit acts that a people do not know about and would be horrified to learn of. Without marking the whole culture in that manner. And the concept of treachery as a socially accepted fact would make them all looking for the knife in the back. And the Admiral from the Defector would have seen the false information given to him as such. Since he did not see the information as bad, and we have seen Romulans trusting one an other it would seem they are less commonly treacherous to each other.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
because when you lost your homeworld, the Federation immediately sent food and aid for years, and still haven't stopped, even though its costing us ships and lives. during that same time, the klingons have tried to systematically exterminate you all. to top it all off your own secret police/government are turning your comrades into fungus people.
because the federation is the only remaining major power in the alpha quadrant with the well being of the Romulan people in mind at all. if the klingons cared they would apologize for the years worth frankly genocidal attacks and return your captured worlds and enslaved/imprisoned comrades.
In a word: Reunification.
Since even the days of TNG, Ambassador Spock spent a great deal of time trying to create a grass roots movement towards reunification, he spent a great time on Romulus and spent a great time cultivating that movement, even going to far as to cultivate it amongst the Romulan leadership.
with the destruction of Romulus and the destruction of the Romulan establishment, but specifically the strangle hold created by the Tal Shiar and the Romulan Traditionalists.
with the Romulans now being a people with out a homeworld and looking to reset themselves down before they basically fizzle out.
D'tan for example was a personal apprentice to Spock during the initial years of Reunification, his own parents had several Vulcan objects, such as a book of their early history and "toys" which where wooden objects with the syllabic nucleus of the Vulcan language engraved on them. So even without Spock his parents encourage learning about Vulcan.
The long and the short of it is that the Reunificationists comprise of most if not all of the survivors of Romulus, of which player character Romulans are assumed to be part of that same movement. So in essence when you play a Rom in STO you ARE a Reunificationist.
So because of that, that would make you interested in communing with Vulcan and its allies the Federation, however because of the destruction of Romulus, it has also created a situation where the more altruistic interests of Reunificationists allowed a more pragmatic view of the Romulan situation.
So the question should be, How can as a Romulan Reunificationist want to join the Klingon Empire?
However that point can be subsequently argued, Security, Weapons Technology, Ship technology more in line with the existing Romulan technology, you name it.
So lore wise it makes sense that the Romulans would seek out allies to strengthen their currently tentative position.
-AE
you know I never thought of that, that Dtan and the romulans part of his group are actually spocks re-unificationst and after thinking if makes perfect sense cause if you play through the game as a re-unificationst what is it that they say they don't want to be part of tal shiar and there romulan empire that they will defend themselves etc so it makes complete sense that the re-unificationst would want to join starfleet
The Klingons are doubly dangerous allies because they realize, like us Romulans, that the only 'natural' way for another species to be incorporated into one's empire is through conquest. As the weaker party in this relationship, Romulan alleis of the Klingon Empire would constantly be in danger of annexation, where the worst we have to worry about in the company of the Federation is the influence of their subversive culture.
Of course, given ideal conditions, we'd go our own way as we always have, without being beholden to any 'allies' at all. But that is unfortunately a political impracticality as long as D'Tan and his sycophants man the upper echelons of the Republic government.
Your signature image makes this line even better
Point of order, D'Tan may be the chief of state and a unificationist, but there's little evidence in the storyline that he's overtly pushing his unificationism agenda on his constituents -- he's too busy building a functional government from nothing and keeping the various regional political threats at bay (and being a naive dumbass by sending us into the Delta Quadrant when we're needed more at home). I actually only remember one time he even mentioned it, and that was to a Tal'Shiar officer who was trying to bribe him.
My own Romulan is a Republican patriot, but she's against unification. Reconciliation is one thing -- she wouldn't mind having good relations with Vulcan -- but becoming one with them and losing the Romulan cultural identity is out of the question.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
FIFY
/10char
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
*spoiler alert*
I think we're seeing a lot of the Romulan Achille's Heel in both D'Tan's and Jarok's attitudes in the Jolenae Dyson Sphere. First we have Jarok almost claiming the sphere for the Romulan Republic, then we've got D'Tan trying it again at the conference. I'm not sure it's so much naivete as Romulan arrogance bubbling just beneath the "openly and honestly mending our ways" surface.
The Republic is a fledgling state, built from small colonies and scattered survivors, and so is weak and vulnerable. Had the Romulan Republic sided with just one protector or the other, it would have been simply a client state, if it wasn't absorbed outright by the larger power. However, by maintaining this balance, not only did the Republic establish its independent identity, it also became an indispensable middle-man for contact between the two great powers in conflict, which has proven of enormous importance given the number of threats the powers have had to respond to jointly. This has meant that the Republic quickly became the fulcrum of political power in this region -- which is how it was able to cement its position as literal and figurative gatekeeper of the gate to the Solanae Dyson Sphere.
So, maintaining a balanced relationship with both Federation and Empire has been of the utmost importance.
It crosses my mind that the Romulan Republic is now in a position somewhat analogous to the position Earth was in, just before the founding of the Federation. While Andoria and Vulcan were older and stronger interstellar powers than Earth was at the time, Earth had established itself as a friend to both of them, and critical to resolving their conflict. This placed Earth at the center of the newly established Federation.
Similarly, the Romulan Republic is now the trusted partner of the most powerful states in the region, and at the center of a coalition with strong shared interests and several common enemies.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Plus have you looked the the state of the defenses on Qo'nos.
I mean the federation suffers one minor attack on Mars that near as I can tell doesn't accomplish squat and gets a lot of Klingons captured and a major attack that needed an infiltrator to turn the defenses off to work and they were still holding ground in orbit and repairs from said attack were finished in a few weeks at most. So basically Earth is really really hard to attack and almost impossible to do so successfully.
Whereas the Klingons get 1 major attack that pretty much wreaks some of their defenses and has enemy troops actually land on the surface and even attack the Great Hall, and then months later they get a second major attack that almost destroys the planet and needs both the Romulan Republic and the Federation to stop without sabotoge being needed. Meaning Qo'nos looks to be very poorly defended.
I mean would the Romulans really want to side with someone that can barely defend their own homeworld (and no the Romulans having the same difficulty doesn't count seeing as they basically just got the place).
Not to mention the Klingons once destroyed their own moon through incompetence. I mean for pete's sake how the heck does somebody do something that stupid?
And the Romulans can't afford foreign adventurism anyway. When you need foreign military assistance just to keep huge numbers of enemy forces from openly wandering around mere kilometers from your capital, sending what little military forces you possess to go dicking around on the other side of the galaxy is the last thing you should be doing.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That's what I never understood! The borders in STO are a little... all over the place.
Jarok and D'Tan show more than an opportunistic attitude in the Dyson storyline. Remember what Jarok said at the start if Surface Tension to the Rom player and D'Tan's angle in talks. They assume that the main reason the Federation objects to them taking control is because the Federation thinks they aren't strong enough. They don't even discuss the idea the Federation has a claim for the property amongst themselves. The whole strategy is argue that they can handle it the job.
It suggests not only things about the Romulan mindset (it can be ours, it should be ours) but their take on the Federation mindset (completely not a threat, despite being the most powerful and rich faction).
The Romulans have too much pride to consider that the Federation's position is not about them.
The Klingons have the same problem. They whine and moan about the Federation not jumping at their word, at them talking things through before attacking and attribute it to cowardice. It doesn't hit them that the Federation talks about things because it actually gets them results in the end. They can't shift their viewpoint enough to really understand what's going on across the Neutral Zone.
That's really why the Federation always wins. The Federation's prone to arrogance too, but it has so many different cultures and interest groups the other major powers can't get a good handle on it as an entity.
Allying with either side in this game was simply a lazy means to add a new faction since they would not need to build ALL the elements of the faction. Only half the Romulan leveling experience is Romulan specific, the rest belongs to your chosen faction. Only one Romulan ship at each tier below T5, instead granting access for Fed/KDF ships from T2-T4.
Think of it as the difference between "modern" world borders and "borderlands" as they existed in medieval Europe:
In the modern world, we have highly sophisticated cartography techniques that allow us to determine national borders with "pinpoint accuracy". As a result, we think of a 'border' as a very distinct, almost tangible line on a map with "ours" on one side and "theirs" on the other. Disputes over that line are never "where" the line is, but rather where the line "should be".
In medieval Europe, the thinking was not about lines, because these didn't really exist. Instead, there were spheres of influence about how far one Kingdom's authority and ability to maintain order were, and where the next was. In between were in effect "lawless" or at the very least, "Disputed" lands where you couldn't rely on particular Kingdoms to settle problems even though there would be various claims (although they could arrive, claim it, then leave again). Borders could exist, but they weren't as settled as they are now.
STO borders are more like medieval borders. If you look at the STO Galaxy Map, it even shows areas clearly in control of one faction, but that the colour fades so you can't really definitively say if for example, Drozana is in Federation or Klingon territory. Rather than "ours" and "theirs", it's more like "Definitely ours", "We have a claim", "Definitely theirs", and "nobody knows".
Anyhow, no one is saying they ALL fit a certain mold, but there certainly has been a GENERALIZED depiction of how they are portrayed which they should. Much like most Klingons are about battle, personal honor and glory, so Romulans are passionate about anger and vengeance towards anyone who does them wrong, and enacting it in a covert manner with arrogance and extreme prejudice.
They are my favorite Trek race because of this and more. They are Vulcans evolved and unbridled by emotional control, and have created an Empire based on all the qualities I mentioned above. They are quite the antithesis of the Federation, and that's exactly why I like them as much as I do.
Oh we could get into a serious debate centered around Surak and the Raptor Star LOL
But yes, all in all I agree with you. Romulans are passionate. It is that passion which drives them to greatness and, ultimately, that which leads them to their ruin.