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T5-U Upgrade Inconsistencies with Hull, Shields and Crew Size. [Pics Includes]
sarcasmdetector
Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
I'm not sure if this is 1 big monstrous bug or a few different bugs.
What i'm seeing is inconsistencies with the Hull HP, Shield Facing HP and Crew Size when upgrading different ships to T5-U.
Below are examples from 4 ships that i have tested (pic album can be found here: http://imgur.com/a/qrS2D ):
Narcine:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/xd9YtXA.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/6lKoWVC.jpg
Hull HP = 54.9K
Shield Facing = 7.7k (Dyson Shield)
Crew Size = 1800
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble @ level 50 (defense), http://i.imgur.com/otUu18c.jpg
Image #4 = T5-U on Tribble @ level 50 (crew size), http://i.imgur.com/QHpIMFn.jpg
Hull HP = 63.1k (+16%)
Shield Facing = 7.5k (Reduced!)
Crew Size = 50 (Reduced by over 97%!!!)
Hull HP has jumped up nearly 20%, shield facing and crew size has decreased!
Image #5 = T5-U on Tribble @ level 53*, http://i.imgur.com/8lhCgTQ.jpg
Hull HP = 71k
Shield Facing = 7.5k
Crew Size = 50
* went from 6 to 9 points in Structural Integrity skill and added [Console - Bioneural Infusion Circuits]
At level 53 Hull HP has jumped up by around 30% from level 50 T5!!!
Risian Luxury Cruiser:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/G0lfWLh.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/4XXGsaq.jpg
Hull HP = 56k
Shield Facing = 9.4k (fleet shield)
Crew Size = 1500
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble (Defense), http://i.imgur.com/dtO9kNc.jpg
Image #4 = T5-U on Tribble (crew size), http://i.imgur.com/iDxnJRJ.jpg
Hull HP = 64.5k (+16%)
Shield Facing = 9.1k (Reduced)
Crew Size 150 (Reduced by 90%)
Fleet Galaxy Dreadnought:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/RU5Ry97.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/bbjc5X9.jpg
Hull HP = 59k
Shield Facing = 11.8k (CC shield)
Crew Size = 1000
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/ZyxZ7kP.jpg
Hull HP = 68.4k (+16%)
Shield Facing = 11.5k (Reduced)
Crew Size = 1000 (crew size did not change)
Science Oddessey:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/8Qb3OwZ.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/gH6LoTM.jpg
Hull HP = 54.7k
Shield Facing = 9.6k
Crew Size = 2500
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/ZFnsjZs.jpg
Hull HP= 54.7k (Did not change)
Shield Faccing = 9.3k (Reduced)
Crew Size = 2500 (Did not change)
What i'm seeing is inconsistencies with the Hull HP, Shield Facing HP and Crew Size when upgrading different ships to T5-U.
Below are examples from 4 ships that i have tested (pic album can be found here: http://imgur.com/a/qrS2D ):
Narcine:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/xd9YtXA.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/6lKoWVC.jpg
Hull HP = 54.9K
Shield Facing = 7.7k (Dyson Shield)
Crew Size = 1800
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble @ level 50 (defense), http://i.imgur.com/otUu18c.jpg
Image #4 = T5-U on Tribble @ level 50 (crew size), http://i.imgur.com/QHpIMFn.jpg
Hull HP = 63.1k (+16%)
Shield Facing = 7.5k (Reduced!)
Crew Size = 50 (Reduced by over 97%!!!)
Hull HP has jumped up nearly 20%, shield facing and crew size has decreased!
Image #5 = T5-U on Tribble @ level 53*, http://i.imgur.com/8lhCgTQ.jpg
Hull HP = 71k
Shield Facing = 7.5k
Crew Size = 50
* went from 6 to 9 points in Structural Integrity skill and added [Console - Bioneural Infusion Circuits]
At level 53 Hull HP has jumped up by around 30% from level 50 T5!!!
Risian Luxury Cruiser:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/G0lfWLh.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/4XXGsaq.jpg
Hull HP = 56k
Shield Facing = 9.4k (fleet shield)
Crew Size = 1500
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble (Defense), http://i.imgur.com/dtO9kNc.jpg
Image #4 = T5-U on Tribble (crew size), http://i.imgur.com/iDxnJRJ.jpg
Hull HP = 64.5k (+16%)
Shield Facing = 9.1k (Reduced)
Crew Size 150 (Reduced by 90%)
Fleet Galaxy Dreadnought:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/RU5Ry97.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/bbjc5X9.jpg
Hull HP = 59k
Shield Facing = 11.8k (CC shield)
Crew Size = 1000
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/ZyxZ7kP.jpg
Hull HP = 68.4k (+16%)
Shield Facing = 11.5k (Reduced)
Crew Size = 1000 (crew size did not change)
Science Oddessey:
Image #1 = T5 on Holodeck, http://i.imgur.com/8Qb3OwZ.jpg
Image #2 = T5 on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/gH6LoTM.jpg
Hull HP = 54.7k
Shield Facing = 9.6k
Crew Size = 2500
Image #3 = T5-U on Tribble, http://i.imgur.com/ZFnsjZs.jpg
Hull HP= 54.7k (Did not change)
Shield Faccing = 9.3k (Reduced)
Crew Size = 2500 (Did not change)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Base Hull of a Narcine is 40,500.
Base Hull at 50 for a T5 ship is 30,000.
Tells us we've got a Hull Mod of 1.35 going for us.
Base Hull at 50 for a T5-U ship is 33,000.
Expected Base Hull for a T5-U Narcine would be 44,550.
Actual Hull of T5 test ship is 54,953.
Gives us a skill/gear modifier of ~1.357.
Expected Actual Hull of T5-U test ship would be ~60,455.
Actual Hull of T5-U test ship is 63,197.
Actual Hull is ~4.5% greater than Expected Actual Hull.
Base Hull of a Luxury Cruiser is 41,400.
Tells us we've got a Hull Mod of 1.38 going for us.
Expected Base Hull for a T5-U Luxury Cruiser would be 45,540.
Actual Hull of T5 test ship is 56,086.
Gives us a skill/gear modifier of ~1.355.
Expected Actual Hull of T5-U test ship would be ~61,707.
Actual Hull of T5-U test ship is 64,496.
Actual Hull is ~4.5% greater than Expected Actual Hull.
Base Hull of a Fleet Gal-X is 44,000.
After accounting for Fleet bonus, it tells us we've got a Hull Mod of ~1.333 going for us.
Expected Base Hull for T5-U Fleet Gal-X would be 48,388.
Actual Hull of T5 test ship is 59,477.
Gives us a skill/gear modifier of ~1.352.
Expected Actual Hull of T5-U test ship would be ~65,421.
Actual Hull of T5-U test ship is 68,385.
Actual Hull is ~4.5% greater than Expected Actual Hull.
Base Hull of a Sci Ody is 42,000.
Tells us we've got a Hull Mod of 1.4 going for us.
Expected Base Hull for a T5-U Sci Ody would be 46,200.
Actual Hull of T5 test ship is 54,741.
Gives us a skill/gear modifier of ~1.303.
Expected Actual Hull of T5-U test ship would be ~60,199.
Actual Hull of T5-U test ship is 54,744.
Actual Hull is ~90.9% of the Expected Actual Hull.
The Sci Ody is obviously borked, but the other three have me even more curious than before. Let's work it backward to see what it provides, eh?
Actual Hull of T5-U Narcine is 63,197.
We have a skill/gear modifier of ~1.357.
Without skill/gear modifier we would have ~46,571.
We have a Hull Mod of 1.35.
So a T5-U Base Hull would be ~34,497.
Actual Hull of T5-U Luxury Cruiser is 64,496.
We have a skill/gear modifier of ~1.355.
Without skill/gear modifier we would have ~47,599.
We have a Hull Mod of 1.38.
So a T5-U Base Hull would be ~34,492.
Actual Hull of a T5-U Fleet Gal-X is 68,385.
We have a skill/gear modifier of ~1.352.
Without skill/gear modifier we would have ~50,581.
Without the Fleet bonus we would have ~45,983.
We have a Hull Mod of ~1.33.
So a T5-U Base Hull would be ~34,573.
With those numbers, I'd guess that they changed the base hull of a T5-U ship since the other thread from 33,000 to 34,500...which would match up with the 4.5% difference seen.
Would have to have other folks look at it to confirm that was the case...hrmmm, cause it had to be a magnitude modifier rather than another type for it to have been consistent (relatively) across the three ships.
I don't have enough caffeine in me to take a look at the Shield math, lol...but the crew stuff is obviously dorked.
63197 @50
71039 @53...but SI was increased from 6 to 9 and the Infusion was added.
Okay, 6 to 9 SI is +15 SI...which is...hrmm, ~4.5% (popular today!). Infusion adds +17.2 SI...which is ~5.2%. So we add ~9.7% to our skill/gear mod to take it from 1.357 to 1.454.
We can then redo the @50...
63197 becomes 67715.
If it's an equal increase rather than a scaling increase from 50 to 60...
1108 per level.
@60 would be 78795 hull.
Remove skill/gear mod and we have 54192.
Remove hull mod and we have 40142.
Which is a really odd number...potentially suggesting with all the rounding, that the @60 has not changed only the @50?
Yeah, I shouldn't have gotten into this without the caffeine...lol.
except the one spot where i noted*, it's been check stats in Sol > upgrade ship > check stats in Sol again.
Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier
Hull HP = 50.4k -> 57.9k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 9.6k -> 9.38k (-3%)
Crew = 200 -> 200
Andorian Kumari Escort
Hull HP = 44.29k -> 50.9k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 8.2k -> 7.99k (-3%)
Crew = 85 -> 85
S'Golth
Hull HP = 40.8k -> 46.9k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 10.9k ->10.5k (-3%)
Crew = 200 -> 1500 (+650%)
Fleet Avenger
Hull HP = 53.5k -> 61.5k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 8.6k -> 8.3k (-3%)
Crew = 500 -> 500
Advanced Obelisk
Hull HP = 67.48k -> 77.6k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 11.6k -> 11.3k (-2%)
Crew = 3000 -> 50 (around -98%)
Recluse
Hull HP = 58.99k -> 67.84k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 11.57K -> 11.23 (-3%)
Crew = 2500 -> 1200 (-52%)
Chel Grett
Hull HP = 48.47K -> 55.74k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 8.5k -> 8.27k (-3%)
Crew = 650 -> 250 (around -61%)
Fleet Patrol Escort Refit
Hull HP = 46.6k -> 53.6k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 11.16 -> 10.9k (-2%)
Crew = 200 -> 200
Risean Corvertte
Hull HP = 37.4k -> 43k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 7.59k -> 7.36k (-3%)
Crew = 150 -> 1500 (+900%)
Vesta (tactical)
Hull HP = 36k -> 41.43k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 9.4k -> 9.09k (-3%)
Crew = 750 -> 750
Odessey (Operations)
Hull HP = 54.1k -> 54.1k
Shield Facing = 8k -> 7.7k (-3%)
Crew = 2500 -2500
Odessey (tactical)
Hull HP = 54.1k -> 54.1k
Shield Facing = 8k -> 7.7 (-3%)
Crew = 2500 -> 2500
Galaxy Retro
Hull HP = 51.56k -> 59.28k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 6.97k -> 6.7 (-3%)
Crew = 1000 -> 1000
Galaxy Dreadnought
Hull HP = 51.56k -> 59.28k (+15%)
Shield Facing = 6.63k -> 6.3k (-3%)
Crew = 1000 -> 1000
i cross checked my numbers with your virus and concur 100%
My big questions are:
Why no extra console for the Vestas?
Why no extra hull for Scimitars, Oddys and Dyson Destroyer?
And why does my Sci Oddy not get a Tactical when the other 2 do?
Faction Ship Hull+ Console+
All 1000 Day Vet ship 5175 T
All Breen Chel Grett 5400 E
All Breen Plesh Brek Raider 4455 E
All Cardassian Galor 5625 E
All Dyson Science Destroyer 0 E
All Elachi Monbosh 5850 E
All Hirogen Apex 6525 T
All Jem'hadar Attack Ship 5175 S
All Jem'hadar Dread 6750 E
All Risa Corvette 4050 E
All Risian Cruiser 6210 T
All Tal Shiar Adapted BC 6299 S
All Tal Shiar Adapted D 5850 S
All Temporal Destroyer 4950 T
All Temporal Science Vessel 4500 S
All Tholian Orb Weaver 4500 S
All Tholian Recluse Carrier 6525 T
All Undine Dromias 6299 E
All Voth Palidade 4950 T
All Xindi Contortrix 4950 E
Fed Avenger BC 5625 E
Fed Avenger BC (Fleet) 6187 E
Fed Caitian Atrox Carrier 6075 T
Fed Explorer Cruiser Retro 6000 T
Fed Gal-X 6000 E
Fed Heavy Escort Carrier 4800 T
Fed Long Range Sci Retro 4050 S
Fed M-V Assault Escort 4650 E
Fed Nebula Retrofit 4725 S
Fed Odyssey (Eng) 0 T
Fed Odyssey (Sci) 0 E
Fed Odyssey (Tac) 0 T
Fed Regent Refit (Fleet) 6435 E
Fed Streamrunner Retrofit 5175 T
Fed Tactical Escort Retro 4500 S
Fed Vesta (Eng) 4185 none
Fed Vesta (Sci) 4185 none
Fed Vesta (Tac) 4185 none
KDF Fleet Norgh Retrofit 4084 T
KDF Varanus 4275 S
Rom D'deridex Retrofit 6075 E
Rom Dhelan Retrofit 4725 S
Rom Haakona Advanced WB 6000 T
Rom Mogai Retrofit 4950 T
Rom Scimitar (Eng) 0 T
Rom Scimitar (Sci) 0 E
Rom Scimitar (Tac) 0 E
Rom T'Varo Retrofit 4050 S
I wanted to let you know that I am monitoring this thread. We are aware of the issues posted here. Many of which have been fixed internally and should roll out into a build soon. The issues that SHOULD be resolved shortly are:
-Crew being goofed up.
-Shields being lower than you'd expect.
The issue that I am concerned with is the small hull HP discrepancies. However, there are too many weird little factors that contribute to HP. Can I ask you guys to do me a favor? Take one of the ships with a small amount of HP difference and do the following:
1) Hop onto Holodeck onto a ground map. Check your ship's HP and post a screenshot.
2) Hop onto Tribble onto a ground map. Check the same ship's HP and post a screenshot.
The reason why the ground map is important as this is your ship's base HP. I want to make sure your base HP isn't off. Any minor HP discrepancies in sector or system space might be due to minor table changes, rounding errors or something else.
Thank you!
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
I can try to grab some screenshots this weekend, but I've posted about this in two other threads. I watched the following changes occur, because I was specifically interested in how Hull HP was affected by the upgrade process. Keep in mind, I'm at level 50 still on Tribble.
In ESD, at Ship Selector:
My T5-U Fleet Defiant went from 33,000 to 37,950.
My T5-U Jem Bug went from 34,500 to 39,675.
My T5-U Oddy Operations DID NOT CHANGE from 42,000.
Do you have specific ships in mind that you would like new screenshots for? The discrepancies are my fault since i was in Sol space when i took the original images, and was being affected by things like +5% Veteran skills and etc...
I've created a new album here: http://imgur.com/a/oVnpy with screenies from ships i hadn't upgraded till today. First image is from Holodeck on ESD, second is from Tribble on ESD, third image is the T5-U.
Chel Gret:
Image #1 T5 Holodeck: http://i.imgur.com/5D2JySv.jpg
Image #2 T5 Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/yIMgB0N.jpg
Image #3 T5-U Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/vcpfSH5.jpg
Holo -> Tribb -> T5-U:
36k -> 36k -> 41.4k (+15%)
Kumari:
Image #1 T5 Holodeck: http://i.imgur.com/pepWcuW.jpg
Image #2 T5 Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/MrSBwO9.jpg
Image #3 T5-U Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/mc9fBKy.jpg
32k -> 32k -> 36.8k (+15%)
Bastion:
Image #1 T5 Holodeck: http://i.imgur.com/FmaOh2I.jpg
Image #2 T5 Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/xPy58dk.jpg
Image #3 T5-U Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/ap4stCF.jpg
44k -> 44k -> 50.6k (+15%)
Recluse:
Image #1 T5 Holodeck: http://i.imgur.com/rqHT9WZ.jpg
Image #2 T5 Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/wm9VCoq.jpg
Image #3 T5-U Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/nkODnVs.jpg
43.5k -> 43.5k -> 50k (+15%)
Advanced Obelisk:
Image #1 T5 Holodeck: http://i.imgur.com/3GxMvXF.jpg
Image #2 T5 Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/u1dvVT9.jpg
Image #3 T5-U Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/l0VuwLI.jpg
47.85k -> 47.85 -> 55.03k (+15%)
---
In regards to the shield fix...
It looks like now we are not getting any kind of bonus when upgrading to T5-U, additionally shield cap is not increasing as we level up. the following album shows shield capacity (on the ground) for a Narcine on Holodeck, Tribble, with T5-U and finally with T5-U at level 53: http://imgur.com/a/ZzhkB
T5 Shield Facing on Holodeck: http://i.imgur.com/HM9uFPl.jpg
T5 Shield Facings on Tribble: http://i.imgur.com/bZdf7gr.jpg
T5-U Shield Facings: http://i.imgur.com/Q05RWzq.jpg
T5-U Shield Facings @ level 53: http://i.imgur.com/wajuep9.jpg
All the HPs on my list are as I'm standing at the shipyard at ESD or KDF Shipyard.
If you are referring to my posts then i was being specific. if it was a fleet ship i indicated Fleet. if it was just a retro then i only wrote down Retro.
dracounguis had some too. Just trying to see if it is that starting point of the T5-U being 34.5k instead of 33k, and trying to compare that to the Intel T6 ships with the info they've got there.
Cause Gorn gave us the 33k @50 and 40k @60 for the T5-U/T6...it looks like the T5-U numbers folks are getting are 34.5k while the IT6 blog has it at 33k.
Ghosts of the Jem'Hadar strikes again.
Joined January 2009
Ditto what he said. If it was a fleet it said fleet. (I think I only have 3 fleet ships: Regent, Avenger and Norgh)
Shields do not increase on T5-U ships. I was concerned about the shield value going down or changing. They should be identical to the T5 versions.
Joined January 2009
yes there is