Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
Only the ones with the largest remaining duration? Who are you trying to comfort right now?
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
That seems reasonable. But I still cringe at the thought of 5 people hitting you with it in waves. It will happen. Save that sci team, peeps
If you think it's a bad idea, explain why. Constructively.
The buffs with the largest time remaining are the ones that are most important to the player using them. This is because the larger the time you are without your buffs the more vulnerable you are.
I'm loving the subnuke wave from what I read. Make sure that stays in the game. Some people have way too many buffs running via Aux to battery.
Also devs if you guys want a alternative to the Subnucleonic carrier wave, just allow Subnucleonic beam III to 'double tap': Clears all buffs, waits 6 seconds, clears all buffs again even if science team was used. The 2nd tap should just clear buffs and not put them on long cool down like the 1st tap. (It's like the viral matrix duty officer ability.)
I strongly support the Subnucleonic Carrier Wave... Best idea I've seen in a long time. Good job.
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
I have a really big beef about the shield-ignoring torp ability.
I don't like it. Not because of how it can be used in PvE, or PvP, or anything else, but because I feel like the devs are trying to make torps 'better' but still completely ignore the underlying major mechanics issues with them.
Shields still negate a vast amount of kinetic damage....so maybe instead of just tossing in a new ability where you can ignore shields with a torp...instead actually change the mechanics. I think it's lazy and avoiding the real issue.
Haven't several people complained about this before? Although I haven't kept track, I vaguely recall several shield penetrating kinetic abilities being added to the game. The latest is the TR-116B sniper rifle. I'm sure others can come up with a more complete list. It seems that Cryptic thinks shield penetration is the answer to the innate kinetic resistance of shields.
Only the ones with the largest remaining duration? Who are you trying to comfort right now?
Most of the time the "ones with the largest remaining duration" will be Elite Fleet Shield [Adapt] stacks. Anyone using Elite Fleet Shields will be pretty much immune to this ability. The only real ability at risk will be Go Down Fighting if you use an Elite Fleet Shield.
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
AoE RSP stripper. I approve of this ability. Now, those secondary deflectors......
Most of the time the "ones with the largest remaining duration" will be Elite Fleet Shield [Adapt] stacks. Anyone using Elite Fleet Shields will be pretty much immune to this ability. The only real ability at risk will be Go Down Fighting if you use an Elite Fleet Shield.
There are people who don't use elite fleet shields.
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
Is it a 5KM Sphere around your ship. or does it target something within 5KM of your ship and apply the 5KM sphere AOE there? That in and of itself is a big difference.
Also: Bort, again thanks for actually interacting with us. So much of the "DOOOM" is caused by the way this information is being released. If a little more of your type of back and forth was implemented, maybe people would be less likely to freak out.
BIG example: 13th BOFF ability. Is it Lt.? Ens.? Comm.?
In the case of that example, we are talking about the difference of one word (as in: Additional Ensign BOFF power) being IN the blog/post -vs- NOT IN the blog/post. How much of your time would that one word save?
Another thing that would help mitigate the freak outs and accusations towards the dev team would be explanations about the "why or why not."
Example: T5U11 (extra console) -vs- T6 Extra BOFF ability.
My personal guess is that the amount of work to add a console to existing frames is doable, whereas adding a change to BOFF layout would require basically creating a completely new ship frame. Is this correct?
Again, thanks for the "face to face" interaction. I think we all want to believe that in the end the results will be great, it's just hard to know this without enough information.
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
Ok Borg, here is some honest feedback as it stands atm.
1. To be honest, I don't think anyone here was saying that the SNB wave stripped all buffs. If someone was erroneously thinking so, then I must've accidentally missed it. Even at a handful of buffs, and only the longest ones, that is still a very powerful effect.
2. Eh...to me, the cooldown debuff doesn't really mean squat. The power of this ability was never in that, or even the original SNB. It's never been about adding time to abilities, it's about the buff stripping.
2a. I know some have mentioned about stacking CD debuffs and how it can be a bit insane. Problem I more see with it is that the there is no limit on the amount that can be stacked (like spamming SS with the Seggis DOFF then using SNB for example) and in the past the issue of that CDs remaining high even after death. If there was a limit, then this wouldn't be a problem.
Honestly Bort? CC is very high right now, especially if you know how to use it. But let's go with what you said, and keep it to even just one ship. One ship alone, having the ability to strip a small handful of buffs from another one ship is a very powerful thing to have, let alone adding in multiple ships doing the same thing and then on top of that having actual science captains to use a proper SNB. Mark my words, there WILL be ways that people will find to make the most usage out of it.
I can understand your last part here. Once we actually can test things *cough* then maybe we can figure out some more honest things to say about it.
Haven't several people complained about this before? Although I haven't kept track, I vaguely recall several shield penetrating kinetic abilities being added to the game. The latest is the TR-116B sniper rifle. I'm sure others can come up with a more complete list. It seems that Cryptic thinks shield penetration is the answer to the innate kinetic resistance of shields.
I know I've never been a fan of the poor mechanics of shields vs kinetic damage for a long time. But simply ignoring the issue by adding in more shield-bypassing stuff isn't a fix, it's an easy way to avoid the problem. The Tr-116b is a good example. In PvE it is nice against some enemies, especially Borg, but you can win without it. In PvP though, it is a nightmare to fight against, as your enemy can completely ignore shields, tac buff on up, and kill you a lot more easily.
Now they are adding a torp ability that can ignore shields as well? The possibilities are nasty to say the least. What torps can it be used on? Only normal ones, or special ones as well? If so, which special ones?
I wouldn't really mind if this was say...50% shield penetration, so not all of the damage went through shields. Same thing for the Tr-116b, 50% would keep it useful, but not insane.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
I'll try to give some brief thoughts based on this further information which explains why I along with some other people have concerns.
1) we don't know the arc on this ability yet, but combined with a doffed repulsors it is possible to hit an entire team with this ability.
2) you always benefit from buff stripping an entire team. Specially if there are only a few clears because this means that the healer must pick who gets the clear and whoever wasn't becomes a very convenient target.
3) this leads me to the third point which has been made. It is not clear if the timing debuff can be staked with other abilities but if it does that means havoc since a scrambles doff + TIF + subnuke wave + subnuke could potential shut down a tray for a long period of time.
4) will intelligence boff abilities have their cooldown affected by aux to bat and photonics officer?
I admit that we have jumped the gun on the doom here but that is because of a lack of information and a very real fear that stacking won't be taken into account leading to the possibility of a new ability to rule them all.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
eermm... sry bort, but did u actually ever did premade-pvp? then such an assumption on the possible impact-level of this thing on pvp probably would sound a bit different .
it's sounds like from hell lol.
u'll have a lot of times with +1 target within that range. even in pug-matches it's often about the famous "balls".
Ok. Fine, jeez. I'm tired of all the jumping-to-conclusions going on regarding Subnucleonic Carrier Wave. If you want to complain about something, at least make sure you're accurately informed about its capabilities first, please?
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
all fine and dandy. How about you actually test things in PvP, before jumping to conclusions about its impact. I reallize that this would require a complete restructuring of Cryptic, PWE, and the US-China trade relations treaty.
Until then, just face up, that the pvp'ers in this game have more often then not accurately predicted the balance impact of new stuff then systems. Which is why things constantly have to be readjusted on holo after people forked over enough moneyz. Because of "exceeding expectations builds", and all that stuff..."
PS.: When this thing goes live, i want my PSW to actually stun people again. That was fun, and totally not OP, but what do i know, i only played with and against this ability for years in pvp.
PS.: When this thing goes live, i want my PSW to actually stun people again. That was fun, and totally not OP, but what do i know, i only played with and against this ability for years in pvp.
Might also just be that your enemy has Aux2Damp running and is immune to your PSW stunning him ... ?
Concerning the new space abilities:
Evade target Lock I - If this functions the same way as Jam Sensors then i personally wouldn't wnat to use it.
Intelligence Team I - Could be nice if it breaks target lock, especially if you are being Sensor Analised.
Override Subsystem Safeties I - Could be interesting if it would also increase your power cap but slowly decrease to a value below your actual power levels for a moment. Otherwise i don't see too much of a benefit there (except maybe with weapons power overcap on beam weapons).
Subspace Beacon I - Very interesting! Usefullness depends on the distance duration and if the beacon can be shot down.
Viral Impulse Burst I - Like Gravitic Anchor without speed control. Kinda like reverse evasive of sorts. Forces your opponent away from the team (and maybe into the hands of a vaper). This could shift the current meta into an even more speed oriented meta.
Electromagnetic Pulse Probe I - Aux2Damp might become obligatory. With the other disable being one tier higher this seems to be the budget version, without the AoE component.
Ionic Turbulence - More sliding?
Kinetic Magnet - This plus the new crafting trait plus the torpedo transport might be slightly OP, but we'll see.
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strike - Hm, interesting. Full CrtD might be the way to go with this abilitiy, depending on the buff's magnitute and up-time.
Subnucleonic Carrier wave - Not too concerned about the Buff stripping, elite fleet shield will most likely make you immune to that. The problem i foresee are the stacking behavior with cd increasing abilities. I'd like to not be shut out of using my abilities for too long. AlsoThe implication that you basically need Elite Fleet Shields to somewhat counteract this ability isn't too appealing. EFS have been the way to go for a long time and i'd actually like to have a bit more variation here.
Torpedo: Transport warhead - This thing is what i'm really concerned about. Will it be buffed by tactical buffs? Will only the torpedos base damage be accounted for? Will the new and old traits work with it or will it stack with other torpedo enhancing abilities?
TBH, i generally dislike shield bypassing abilities. There's enough of that already ingame and dying with full shield is never fun ...
Might also just be that your enemy has Aux2Damp running and is immune to your PSW stunning him ... ?
Concerning the new space abilities:
Evade target Lock I - If this functions the same way as Jam Sensors then i personally wouldn't wnat to use it.
Intelligence Team I - Could be nice if it breaks target lock, especially if you are being Sensor Analised.
Override Subsystem Safeties I - Could be interesting if it would also increase your power cap but slowly decrease to a value below your actual power levels for a moment. Otherwise i don't see too much of a benefit there (except maybe with weapons power overcap on beam weapons).
Subspace Beacon I - Very interesting! Usefullness depends on the distance duration and if the beacon can be shot down.
expires when you get more than 10 KM away, and destructible but stealthed
Viral Impulse Burst I - Like Gravitic Anchor without speed control. Kinda like reverse evasive of sorts. Forces your opponent away from the team (and maybe into the hands of a vaper). This could shift the current meta into an even more speed oriented meta.
Forces everyone within 5 KM of you (up to 5) into full impulse basically, including power levels
Electromagnetic Pulse Probe I - Aux2Damp might become obligatory. With the other disable being one tier higher this seems to be the budget version, without the AoE component.
Has a rank 3 version , only affects 2KM around its flight path, and 5KM around its target on impact
Ionic Turbulence - More sliding?
Creates a patch of turbulence that axes your ships friction by 2/3, anyone entering the patch has a chance every second to be thrown out of control
Kinetic Magnet - This plus the new crafting trait plus the torpedo transport might be slightly OP, but we'll see.
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strike - Hm, interesting. Full CrtD might be the way to go with this abilitiy, depending on the buff's magnitute and up-time.
Subnucleonic Carrier wave - Not too concerned about the Buff stripping, elite fleet shield will most likely make you immune to that. The problem i foresee are the stacking behavior with cd increasing abilities. I'd like to not be shut out of using my abilities for too long. AlsoThe implication that you basically need Elite Fleet Shields to somewhat counteract this ability isn't too appealing. EFS have been the way to go for a long time and i'd actually like to have a bit more variation here.
Torpedo: Transport warhead - This thing is what i'm really concerned about. Will it be buffed by tactical buffs? Will only the torpedos base damage be accounted for? Will the new and old traits work with it or will it stack with other torpedo enhancing abilities?
TBH, i generally dislike shield bypassing abilities. There's enough of that already ingame and dying with full shield is never fun ...
I like the fact that you are at least trying to give Torpedoes some love, instead of the continous beam-buffing that has been going on for a long time.
Cannons could use some love too, by the way! :cool:
Still, I have to agree with Mimey about Torpedoes: They may need a bit of more shield penetration to begin with.
Also, targetable torpedoes almost always get killed in PVE.
I understand they need to be killable for PVP, but could they get a PVE buff? Either more health in PVE, or just being targetable in PVP?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Subnucleonic Carrier wave - Not too concerned about the Buff stripping, elite fleet shield will most likely make you immune to that. The problem i foresee are the stacking behavior with cd increasing abilities. I'd like to not be shut out of using my abilities for too long. AlsoThe implication that you basically need Elite Fleet Shields to somewhat counteract this ability isn't too appealing. EFS have been the way to go for a long time and i'd actually like to have a bit more variation here.
Elite fleet shields will not be able to protect you if your shields got nothing to proc on, i.e. when you are being attacked by Torpedos and only that. Or in another situation, a vaper decloaks and attacks, once again, your Elite Fleet shields will not have a chance to proc.
Torpedo: Transport warhead - This thing is what i'm really concerned about. Will it be buffed by tactical buffs? Will only the torpedos base damage be accounted for? Will the new and old traits work with it or will it stack with other torpedo enhancing abilities?
TBH, i generally dislike shield bypassing abilities. There's enough of that already ingame and dying with full shield is never fun ...
It's a boff ability, just like HY and TS so it cannot possibly stack with HY, TS and etc. Think of it as a a different type of modification applied to your Torp. That said, boost like APA, APO and etc. should apply to the base dmg before the torp is *modified* into a shield penetrating warhead. So the Torp that lands on the other ship should be a single regular Torpedo that is otherwise buffed by abilities such as attack patterns and etc.
Elite fleet shields will not be able to protect you if your shields got nothing to proc on, i.e. when you are being attacked by Torpedos and only that. Or in another situation, a vaper decloaks and attacks, once again, your Elite Fleet shields will not have a chance to proc.
You'll nearly always have some stacks on these shields up. Also i'm not looking at a 1v1 situation here. There's so much spam around that even if the enemy has all torps or whatever things like photonic fleet or the occasional FaW boat will give you something.
Even so, what could be erased by that? Say you get nuked first (which would be more sane anyways) and then this would be applied. You'll loose your "green" buffs. If there's just the tiniest bit of spam, then shield stacks will have already been built up, if not (and assuming the pilote isn't completely oblivious to the existence of this abilitiy) he'll just use one of the many "oh-sh*t" button/consoles available to him.
The first SNB will also be cleansed by that time and some other buffs will have been applied just as a countermeasure, which leaves RSP or the Fluidic Rift console still an option.
It's a boff ability, just like HY and TS so it cannot possibly stack with HY, TS and etc. Think of it as a a different type of modification applied to your Torp.
Maybe, maybe not. Thing is this is a different buff category (as in, not tactical so there might not even be a shared cd). It might overlap, though even i think it's unlikely, but who knows.
Makes the ability still pretty OP in my opinion. With the average hull size being around 50k this could get very hairy.
It might also not be, because who knows if it actually uses an equipped torp? (if it did i would just use tricobalt anyways) The ability might just state that some surplus photon torpedo is being beamed over which would make this ability strong, but not OP.
I suddenly thought of a nasty idea. Picture a Sci Captain using the following :
- Real Subnuke, with 2 piece MACO + Elite Deflector to reduce its CD by 15%, with doff to degrade target(s)'s dmg dealing
- Scramble Sensors + Seggis doff for the 10 seconds Subnuke effect without buff stripping (Can be spammed once every 30 seconds)
- the new Subnuke AOE carrier wave
Just picture how much Subnuke and Subnuke-light a single person can throw out. Opps, I think I just gave a very bad idea to these HOBO cheese ganks...
Add it VM3 and ES2 with the Subsystem down doff.....
You'll nearly always have some stacks on these shields up. Also i'm not looking at a 1v1 situation here. There's so much spam around that even if the enemy has all torps or whatever things like photonic fleet or the occasional FaW boat will give you something.
Even so, what could be erased by that? Say you get nuked first (which would be more sane anyways) and then this would be applied. You'll loose your "green" buffs. If there's just the tiniest bit of spam, then shield stacks will have already been built up, if not (and assuming the pilote isn't completely oblivious to the existence of this abilitiy) he'll just use one of the many "oh-sh*t" button/consoles available to him.
The first SNB will also be cleansed by that time and some other buffs will have been applied just as a countermeasure, which leaves RSP or the Fluidic Rift console still an option.
In any event, I expect Bort to clarify that the new Subnuke Wave, if it goes live - will only strip boff procs. If this things starts to remove console buffs or GDF, the crying will be heard all the way to Mars. Likewise, if it only removes EFS procs as opposed to real buffs, then it would render the ability useless and give those using EFS an unfair advantage. So either way, don't count on EFS protecting against it when this thing goes live, assuming it actually will.
Maybe, maybe not. Thing is this is a different buff category (as in, not tactical so there might not even be a shared cd). It might overlap, though even i think it's unlikely, but who knows.
Makes the ability still pretty OP in my opinion. With the average hull size being around 50k this could get very hairy.
It might also not be, because who knows if it actually uses an equipped torp? (if it did i would just use tricobalt anyways) The ability might just state that some surplus photon torpedo is being beamed over which would make this ability strong, but not OP.
I think the name of the ability is misleading. The way STO mechanism is set up, I don't see a way they can code it such that one of your torpedo can physically be *beamed over* to your target without you actually press the fire button. This would open a can of 1000 bugs. Again, purely speculating here, it is a boff ability that modifies one of your torp that still requires you to physically fire it but will pass through shields upon impact, if it actually impact at all. Maybe they will add a blue hue visual or something to that modified torp. This way the torp still has a chance to miss the target based on defense, accuracy and etc. Those torps like the Tricobalt which is targetable should remain targetable. Otherwise, the ability will just become an automatic : "Let me beam a Tricobalt onboard your ship and you boom trick"! Nah, not going to happen and Bort can correct me if I am wrong.
30s: Elite Fleet Shield stacks
Fleets
APA
RSF
EPS
Nadion Inversion
EPtX
DEM
TDF
BO
THY
TS
Target subs
15s:
AtD (unbuffed)
BFI
HE
PH
TSS
APD
12s:
RSP3 (unbuffed)
10s:
Teams
AtB power buff
RSP2 (unbuffed)
AtS
FAW
CSV
CRF
APB
APO
8s:
RSP1 (unbuffed)
Duration of ES depends on Aux power, so that's tough.
So yeah, practically the only thing that will be reliably taken off with Carrier Wave is GDF. Everything else is going to get intercepted by Elite Fleet Shield stacks. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. If this ability becomes commonplace, it could force everyone but a vaper into using them.
I see this ability getting most use in secondary subnuking. Subnuke target - starts heals and RSP - hit with carrier wave. Could have a lot of synergy with Seggis Scrambles and Proton Barrage.
Add it VM3 and ES2 with the Subsystem down doff.....
There is also another Subnuke doff under Energy Weapon Officer, a Cardassian. She can remove your buffs via your energy weapon hits. Picture a few fat cruisers with 8 Beams FAW away...
Someone else mentioned TIF.
You wonder why it's hard to get PvP queues to pop these days? It's going to be 10 times worse with S10. Not to mention the steep curve via the R&D Schools and etc. It will take a freshly minted Lv 50- 60 players about 4-5 months, if they log on everyday and grind religiously everyday - finally be on par with existing PvP players. Meanwhile, there is always a natural attrition rates of existing player base such that the number of PvP ready players will leave. Hence, the effect on player base with all of the above is a shrinking one. Too steep of a curve will discourage new entrants, meanwhile, existing ones will start leaving and dwindle. While the short term effect will look nice on the new packs sale and etc., in the long run, it is concerning for the health of STO as a viable franchise, at least as far as PvP is concerned.
Comments
1) It does not strip all buffs. It removes only a handful, and even then only the ones with a largest remaining duration.
2) The cooldown debuff is less powerful than even Rank I of Subnucleonic Beam
It affects up to 5 targets within a 5km range. How frequently do you have >1 target within that perimeter of your ship? And would benefit from removing a handful of active buffs, while applying a temporary cooldown debuff?
I have a feeling that the feedback regarding this ability may swing sharply in the opposite direction once actual hands-on testing begins.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Only the ones with the largest remaining duration? Who are you trying to comfort right now?
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
That seems reasonable. But I still cringe at the thought of 5 people hitting you with it in waves. It will happen. Save that sci team, peeps
If you think it's a bad idea, explain why. Constructively.
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The buffs with the largest time remaining are the ones that are most important to the player using them. This is because the larger the time you are without your buffs the more vulnerable you are.
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Twitter:
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Also devs if you guys want a alternative to the Subnucleonic carrier wave, just allow Subnucleonic beam III to 'double tap': Clears all buffs, waits 6 seconds, clears all buffs again even if science team was used. The 2nd tap should just clear buffs and not put them on long cool down like the 1st tap. (It's like the viral matrix duty officer ability.)
I strongly support the Subnucleonic Carrier Wave... Best idea I've seen in a long time. Good job.
Haven't several people complained about this before? Although I haven't kept track, I vaguely recall several shield penetrating kinetic abilities being added to the game. The latest is the TR-116B sniper rifle. I'm sure others can come up with a more complete list. It seems that Cryptic thinks shield penetration is the answer to the innate kinetic resistance of shields.
Most of the time the "ones with the largest remaining duration" will be Elite Fleet Shield [Adapt] stacks. Anyone using Elite Fleet Shields will be pretty much immune to this ability. The only real ability at risk will be Go Down Fighting if you use an Elite Fleet Shield.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
AoE RSP stripper. I approve of this ability. Now, those secondary deflectors......
There are people who don't use elite fleet shields.
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Is it a 5KM Sphere around your ship. or does it target something within 5KM of your ship and apply the 5KM sphere AOE there? That in and of itself is a big difference.
Also: Bort, again thanks for actually interacting with us. So much of the "DOOOM" is caused by the way this information is being released. If a little more of your type of back and forth was implemented, maybe people would be less likely to freak out.
BIG example: 13th BOFF ability. Is it Lt.? Ens.? Comm.?
In the case of that example, we are talking about the difference of one word (as in: Additional Ensign BOFF power) being IN the blog/post -vs- NOT IN the blog/post. How much of your time would that one word save?
Another thing that would help mitigate the freak outs and accusations towards the dev team would be explanations about the "why or why not."
Example: T5U11 (extra console) -vs- T6 Extra BOFF ability.
My personal guess is that the amount of work to add a console to existing frames is doable, whereas adding a change to BOFF layout would require basically creating a completely new ship frame. Is this correct?
Again, thanks for the "face to face" interaction. I think we all want to believe that in the end the results will be great, it's just hard to know this without enough information.
Ok Borg, here is some honest feedback as it stands atm.
1. To be honest, I don't think anyone here was saying that the SNB wave stripped all buffs. If someone was erroneously thinking so, then I must've accidentally missed it. Even at a handful of buffs, and only the longest ones, that is still a very powerful effect.
2. Eh...to me, the cooldown debuff doesn't really mean squat. The power of this ability was never in that, or even the original SNB. It's never been about adding time to abilities, it's about the buff stripping.
2a. I know some have mentioned about stacking CD debuffs and how it can be a bit insane. Problem I more see with it is that the there is no limit on the amount that can be stacked (like spamming SS with the Seggis DOFF then using SNB for example) and in the past the issue of that CDs remaining high even after death. If there was a limit, then this wouldn't be a problem.
Honestly Bort? CC is very high right now, especially if you know how to use it. But let's go with what you said, and keep it to even just one ship. One ship alone, having the ability to strip a small handful of buffs from another one ship is a very powerful thing to have, let alone adding in multiple ships doing the same thing and then on top of that having actual science captains to use a proper SNB. Mark my words, there WILL be ways that people will find to make the most usage out of it.
I can understand your last part here. Once we actually can test things *cough* then maybe we can figure out some more honest things to say about it.
I know I've never been a fan of the poor mechanics of shields vs kinetic damage for a long time. But simply ignoring the issue by adding in more shield-bypassing stuff isn't a fix, it's an easy way to avoid the problem. The Tr-116b is a good example. In PvE it is nice against some enemies, especially Borg, but you can win without it. In PvP though, it is a nightmare to fight against, as your enemy can completely ignore shields, tac buff on up, and kill you a lot more easily.
Now they are adding a torp ability that can ignore shields as well? The possibilities are nasty to say the least. What torps can it be used on? Only normal ones, or special ones as well? If so, which special ones?
I wouldn't really mind if this was say...50% shield penetration, so not all of the damage went through shields. Same thing for the Tr-116b, 50% would keep it useful, but not insane.
I'll try to give some brief thoughts based on this further information which explains why I along with some other people have concerns.
1) we don't know the arc on this ability yet, but combined with a doffed repulsors it is possible to hit an entire team with this ability.
2) you always benefit from buff stripping an entire team. Specially if there are only a few clears because this means that the healer must pick who gets the clear and whoever wasn't becomes a very convenient target.
3) this leads me to the third point which has been made. It is not clear if the timing debuff can be staked with other abilities but if it does that means havoc since a scrambles doff + TIF + subnuke wave + subnuke could potential shut down a tray for a long period of time.
4) will intelligence boff abilities have their cooldown affected by aux to bat and photonics officer?
I admit that we have jumped the gun on the doom here but that is because of a lack of information and a very real fear that stacking won't be taken into account leading to the possibility of a new ability to rule them all.
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
eermm... sry bort, but did u actually ever did premade-pvp? then such an assumption on the possible impact-level of this thing on pvp probably would sound a bit different
it's sounds like from hell lol.
u'll have a lot of times with +1 target within that range. even in pug-matches it's often about the famous "balls".
all fine and dandy. How about you actually test things in PvP, before jumping to conclusions about its impact. I reallize that this would require a complete restructuring of Cryptic, PWE, and the US-China trade relations treaty.
Until then, just face up, that the pvp'ers in this game have more often then not accurately predicted the balance impact of new stuff then systems. Which is why things constantly have to be readjusted on holo after people forked over enough moneyz. Because of "exceeding expectations builds", and all that stuff..."
PS.: When this thing goes live, i want my PSW to actually stun people again. That was fun, and totally not OP, but what do i know, i only played with and against this ability for years in pvp.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Might also just be that your enemy has Aux2Damp running and is immune to your PSW stunning him ... ?
Concerning the new space abilities:
Evade target Lock I - If this functions the same way as Jam Sensors then i personally wouldn't wnat to use it.
Intelligence Team I - Could be nice if it breaks target lock, especially if you are being Sensor Analised.
Override Subsystem Safeties I - Could be interesting if it would also increase your power cap but slowly decrease to a value below your actual power levels for a moment. Otherwise i don't see too much of a benefit there (except maybe with weapons power overcap on beam weapons).
Subspace Beacon I - Very interesting! Usefullness depends on the distance duration and if the beacon can be shot down.
Viral Impulse Burst I - Like Gravitic Anchor without speed control. Kinda like reverse evasive of sorts. Forces your opponent away from the team (and maybe into the hands of a vaper). This could shift the current meta into an even more speed oriented meta.
Electromagnetic Pulse Probe I - Aux2Damp might become obligatory. With the other disable being one tier higher this seems to be the budget version, without the AoE component.
Ionic Turbulence - More sliding?
Kinetic Magnet - This plus the new crafting trait plus the torpedo transport might be slightly OP, but we'll see.
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strike - Hm, interesting. Full CrtD might be the way to go with this abilitiy, depending on the buff's magnitute and up-time.
Subnucleonic Carrier wave - Not too concerned about the Buff stripping, elite fleet shield will most likely make you immune to that. The problem i foresee are the stacking behavior with cd increasing abilities. I'd like to not be shut out of using my abilities for too long. AlsoThe implication that you basically need Elite Fleet Shields to somewhat counteract this ability isn't too appealing. EFS have been the way to go for a long time and i'd actually like to have a bit more variation here.
Torpedo: Transport warhead - This thing is what i'm really concerned about. Will it be buffed by tactical buffs? Will only the torpedos base damage be accounted for? Will the new and old traits work with it or will it stack with other torpedo enhancing abilities?
TBH, i generally dislike shield bypassing abilities. There's enough of that already ingame and dying with full shield is never fun ...
They axed them during "General Stability Updates"
some clarification in bold
I like the fact that you are at least trying to give Torpedoes some love, instead of the continous beam-buffing that has been going on for a long time.
Cannons could use some love too, by the way! :cool:
Still, I have to agree with Mimey about Torpedoes: They may need a bit of more shield penetration to begin with.
Also, targetable torpedoes almost always get killed in PVE.
I understand they need to be killable for PVP, but could they get a PVE buff? Either more health in PVE, or just being targetable in PVP?
Thanks. /10char
Elite fleet shields will not be able to protect you if your shields got nothing to proc on, i.e. when you are being attacked by Torpedos and only that. Or in another situation, a vaper decloaks and attacks, once again, your Elite Fleet shields will not have a chance to proc.
It's a boff ability, just like HY and TS so it cannot possibly stack with HY, TS and etc. Think of it as a a different type of modification applied to your Torp. That said, boost like APA, APO and etc. should apply to the base dmg before the torp is *modified* into a shield penetrating warhead. So the Torp that lands on the other ship should be a single regular Torpedo that is otherwise buffed by abilities such as attack patterns and etc.
You'll nearly always have some stacks on these shields up. Also i'm not looking at a 1v1 situation here. There's so much spam around that even if the enemy has all torps or whatever things like photonic fleet or the occasional FaW boat will give you something.
Even so, what could be erased by that? Say you get nuked first (which would be more sane anyways) and then this would be applied. You'll loose your "green" buffs. If there's just the tiniest bit of spam, then shield stacks will have already been built up, if not (and assuming the pilote isn't completely oblivious to the existence of this abilitiy) he'll just use one of the many "oh-sh*t" button/consoles available to him.
The first SNB will also be cleansed by that time and some other buffs will have been applied just as a countermeasure, which leaves RSP or the Fluidic Rift console still an option.
Maybe, maybe not. Thing is this is a different buff category (as in, not tactical so there might not even be a shared cd). It might overlap, though even i think it's unlikely, but who knows.
Makes the ability still pretty OP in my opinion. With the average hull size being around 50k this could get very hairy.
It might also not be, because who knows if it actually uses an equipped torp? (if it did i would just use tricobalt anyways) The ability might just state that some surplus photon torpedo is being beamed over which would make this ability strong, but not OP.
You just topld them that if people want to pvp, they MUST buy T6 ships....
While i do agree with you, thank for confirming that their money grab is going to work....
Add it VM3 and ES2 with the Subsystem down doff.....
In any event, I expect Bort to clarify that the new Subnuke Wave, if it goes live - will only strip boff procs. If this things starts to remove console buffs or GDF, the crying will be heard all the way to Mars. Likewise, if it only removes EFS procs as opposed to real buffs, then it would render the ability useless and give those using EFS an unfair advantage. So either way, don't count on EFS protecting against it when this thing goes live, assuming it actually will.
I think the name of the ability is misleading. The way STO mechanism is set up, I don't see a way they can code it such that one of your torpedo can physically be *beamed over* to your target without you actually press the fire button. This would open a can of 1000 bugs. Again, purely speculating here, it is a boff ability that modifies one of your torp that still requires you to physically fire it but will pass through shields upon impact, if it actually impact at all. Maybe they will add a blue hue visual or something to that modified torp. This way the torp still has a chance to miss the target based on defense, accuracy and etc. Those torps like the Tricobalt which is targetable should remain targetable. Otherwise, the ability will just become an automatic : "Let me beam a Tricobalt onboard your ship and you boom trick"! Nah, not going to happen and Bort can correct me if I am wrong.
Buff timers in order:
60s:
GDF
30s:
Elite Fleet Shield stacks
Fleets
APA
RSF
EPS
Nadion Inversion
EPtX
DEM
TDF
BO
THY
TS
Target subs
15s:
AtD (unbuffed)
BFI
HE
PH
TSS
APD
12s:
RSP3 (unbuffed)
10s:
Teams
AtB power buff
RSP2 (unbuffed)
AtS
FAW
CSV
CRF
APB
APO
8s:
RSP1 (unbuffed)
Duration of ES depends on Aux power, so that's tough.
So yeah, practically the only thing that will be reliably taken off with Carrier Wave is GDF. Everything else is going to get intercepted by Elite Fleet Shield stacks. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. If this ability becomes commonplace, it could force everyone but a vaper into using them.
I see this ability getting most use in secondary subnuking. Subnuke target - starts heals and RSP - hit with carrier wave. Could have a lot of synergy with Seggis Scrambles and Proton Barrage.
Hmm....do Leech/MACO Power stacks count?
There is also another Subnuke doff under Energy Weapon Officer, a Cardassian. She can remove your buffs via your energy weapon hits. Picture a few fat cruisers with 8 Beams FAW away...
Someone else mentioned TIF.
You wonder why it's hard to get PvP queues to pop these days? It's going to be 10 times worse with S10. Not to mention the steep curve via the R&D Schools and etc. It will take a freshly minted Lv 50- 60 players about 4-5 months, if they log on everyday and grind religiously everyday - finally be on par with existing PvP players. Meanwhile, there is always a natural attrition rates of existing player base such that the number of PvP ready players will leave. Hence, the effect on player base with all of the above is a shrinking one. Too steep of a curve will discourage new entrants, meanwhile, existing ones will start leaving and dwindle. While the short term effect will look nice on the new packs sale and etc., in the long run, it is concerning for the health of STO as a viable franchise, at least as far as PvP is concerned.