These ship designs, which seem to be attempting to ape the aesthetics of the 'Vengence' from the last JJ Trek movie-plus the 'Intelligence bridge officers' and the cloaking on all fed ships, combined with the dev comments in the 'federation phase cloak' thread make it seem all but obvious that these ships are Section 31.
I'm not sure I feel very good about all the T6 being S31, or the implication that S31 is going to be at the forefront of Starfleet's actions in the Delta Quadrant. Looks like we might be railroaded into having our captains work for that organization again. Plus, they look absolutely hideous and nothing at all like Starfleet designs. The vengeance barely resembled a Starfleet design to begin with, this lot are even further removed-the cruiser has more in common with Tholian Aesthetics than Starfleet ones!
The Romulan and Klingon ones are passable at best. The Romulan one looks better than many of the other Cryptic designs, but it's still heavily based off that ugly little monster the Dhealan, and it shows. The nacelles are comically oversized, (it looks like it should be sliding around a skating rink) as usual-and once again Cryytic seems incapable of grasping the concept of curves on a Romulan ship.
The way Cryptic is selling these ships abilities, I'm really dubious about their claims that they won't be OP in regards to the T5u ships. In addition to the special bridge officers (which get to fire off their abilities at commander level, no less) they all get cloaks (including the Fed ones!) and an enhanced battle cloak for the romulans, plus an ability that sounds like some combination of sensor analysis and the exploit system ground combat has. So where's the tradeoff?
The criticism of those Fed designs is harsh, but I'm sorry to say, it's fair. Those do not look like Federation ships. Those do not look like Star Trek.
For us to be shoehorned into T6, then for it to be so visually unappealing is tough to take. I don't want to fall behind, but I also won't be caught dead flying one of those things. This is bad, bad news. Sorry.
Did we really need three hideous Section-31 ships? No sense trying to pretend they weren't, since in the fed cloaking thread a dev dropped in and hinted that the Federation might get cloaking ships via section 31, and these designs are clearly aping the Vengeance from the last Star Trek movie.
Sounds like S31 will have a big role in DR, and will be spearheading the exploration, if three of the Fed ship designs being S 31 is any indication of things to come...not looking forward to that again.
With all these special abilities, I wonder how on earth they are supposed to be in any way balanced with T5u ships. They sound pretty powerful.
Sounds like S31 will have a big role in DR, and will be spearheading the exploration, if three of the Fed ship designs being S 31 is any indication of things to come...not looking forward to that again.
Seriously, if Drake is the lead throughout the Delta Rising story arc, I'll never play Federation again.
Hahahahaha. These fed ships are UGLY! How could you make even uglier ships, Cryptic? Even uglier than the "legoprise" hahahaha. You need to get some proper artists for your fed ships, Cryptic. What is this rubbish you're making now? Have you even watched Star Trek? This is one of the worst Cryptic fails in the history of the game.
Do you think we love your game so much that we are going to buy any piece of rubbish you make? No. Your game is just okay but we are here for STAR TREK. So we want STAR TREK ships and TREK-looking ships at least. And they still look ugly even if they were supposed to be for a new sci-fi IP. If I play DR then I'm going to fly the T5, even if they are inferior because I like those designs.
Do tell how much would the pleasure of flying this debris cost us?
$124 for a a delta pack, what a deal, then upgrade costs and finally F6U to really scrap last vestiges of meat from the bones.
In short T5U is a highway robbery, T6 is insult to injury and the looks of T6 ships is just icing to the big steaming pile of... known as Delta Rising.
While I'm no great fan of the T6 fed designs, it's painfully obvious that most of the griping on this thread is the standard forum "I don't like it = objectively bad".
Games have been creating new Star Trek ships since the 1970s, and more often than not the "iconic" ships of the series were mid-range examples. Most of these have, understandably, fallen by the wayside - who now remembers the D-2 Stingtongue from FASA's tactical combat simulator? Perhaps Cryptic, since it looks like a close cousin of the new Raptor.
Likewise, complaints that the new ships look like the Vengeance... newsflash guys, that's the only "new look" Fed ship of the last decade onscreen. You may not like it, but it's still a logical design path. Besides, the Phantom and Guardian at least look like they've got a clear Fed lineage.
As regards the whole T6>T5U debate, it's still too early to say. Yes, the Intel ships get a Cdr Intel slot; but what does that mean? We still don't know if this is instead of, or in addition to, the normal Cdr Tac / Eng / Sci slot for the type and that will have a massive bearing on how OP (or not) the classes are. Lousy BOff layouts could still leave T5U and lockbox ships as a better (cheaper!) option.
Besides... game design is that you still get to play classic ships at an upgraded level. Other than PVP (where the classics have been outclassed for years) and E-Peen, I can't see why anyone needs more if their primary aim is Star Trek canonicity.
While I'm no great fan of the T6 fed designs, it's painfully obvious that most of the griping on this thread is the standard forum "I don't like it = objectively bad".
The fact that most of the griping is about that demonstrates that this subjective preference is objectively prevalent to a significant crossection of this game's community. The fact that the primary evaluation is subjective does not mean that it is objectively irrelevant, given the widespread, shared concerns.
Also- it is not an entirely subjective evaluation to say that these designs are a deviation from what is to be expected from Federation ships. There are objective qualities that are not fulfilled.
The Avenger, the Vesta, the Odyssey, the Tempest, the Chimera and many others are original ships that fulfill the promise of Federation design. They are original and new, but aspire to include classic styling and elements. While I don't necessarily like every one of them personally, most have been beautifully constructed and well thought out; certainly, none have offended my senses like these ships have.
When I firsted looked at these I saw a boxy defiant with tron colors. What looked like a cruiser with a Battlestar Galatica influence, and science ship with the front end of Trade Federation ship from Star Wars.
Couldn't you guys at cryptic take old TOS or even star fleet battles ships and make somewhat new designs out of them? At least they would look more star trek than these do.
Have to wonder, if those complaining about the Fed ships, are mainly put off by the ships beneath the skins or if it's really the StarTRON stuff that's kind of making them go WTF...
What other skins are available for them (outside of gear visuals) and the like sort of thing...
Cause uh, if I picture them with more of a Fed white/gray sort of thing instead of the Rad 80's Rave skin...they simply look like updated Fed designs.
Unfortunatelty, they haven't won me over at all. Those designs just look awful. Although the ship skills sound cool I am in no way tempted to buy one. The designs are just not Trek enough.
They mentioned that the full pack will unlock a ship skin. Perhaps this will make these section 31 ships look more traditional Fed?
Also we already know that the Rom ship will have customization options, so I assume that the Fed ships will have them too. One option may be a much more orthodox design.
Also- it is not an entirely subjective evaluation to say that these designs are a deviation from what is to be expected from Federation ships. There are objective qualities that are not fulfilled.
But what *do* you expect from Federation starships?
Over the 250 years of Starfleet ship design covered in STO, there have already been tectonic shifts in style, with little to uniquely identify Starfleet vessels beyond a "saucer and nacelles" configuration which most of the new ships have. Except for the escort, of course, but that is very clearly a descendant of the Defiant (which itself "broke all the rules")... and it's kind of nice that the Escort build has not been left as a total dead end.
STO is now 50 years on from TNG... that's a sizeable chunk of the time from ENT to TOS (in which Starfleet went from patterned, plated hulls to completely smooth ones) or from the movies to TNG (where they went back again...). So it's not surprising that there is another design revolution in the works, which is only being seen with the Dyson and T6 ships. The Odyssey, Armitage et al can be seen as the equivalent of 1945 piston-engine fighters, the ultimate level of a legacy design before it's replaced.
The Guardian Cruiser looks nice. Kinda like a Galaxy in looks. The Talaxian outfits looks cool as well. I always loved those colorful outfits he had.
I don't usually buy the packs. Mostly since its hard to convince the wife to spend a lot of $ on a game. So I will pick at it and get what I like the most over the course of the year.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Avenger, the Vesta, the Odyssey, the Tempest, the Chimera and many others are original ships that fulfill the promise of Federation design. They are original and new, but aspire to include classic styling and elements. While I don't necessarily like every one of them personally, most have been beautifully constructed and well thought out; certainly, none have offended my senses like these ships have.
I agree with you as well. I love ships that looks close to cannon. I can understand a little change, but at least they fit in. Some of the new Feds just don't do it for me.
I will be keeping my main ones to play with. Which is actually cannon ships.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Damn, are those new T6 Federation ships fugly! I wouldn't use any of them even if they were added to the roster for free... At least that one Romulan T6 ship looks neat. As for the Klingon T6 ships however, they look like repeats of other Klingon ships, but at least they fit the faction, unlike those new Federation T6 designs!
My assumption is that the storyline calls for us to be 'Stealthily' moving about the Delta Quadrant. Which doesnt seem very Fed like at all.
You seem to have missed the part where they said that any current ship could do the coming content.
^^
Anyway, the ships certainly are a departure from current Starfleet ships, even the cryptic designed ones.
At the very least, they aren't, well, uninspired like the Klingons and romulan ships.
At some point, departures from the norm are good and every time i look a the avenger i think that they need start to stretch their legs a bit when it comes to fed ships, because coming up with a new geometry seems to be more their style and area of capability than trying to keep true to established doctrine. Yes they can recreate on-tv designs well enough, but when they do designs themselves.. well, look at all the options for the current ship lineup. Is anyone using those ship parts? Remember the Galaxy options? Ranging from puke to outright vomit? The Venture is an example of fed design gone right. We have not have had much of that lately. Just.. the.. avenger... *gah i have to vomit now....
The New t6 ships do not look horrible or something, just different from what we expect in starfleet ships.
These intelligence ships? They have a tholian look to them. Can't help myself....
LORE BOMB!!!!!
So they are Intel ships, right? Spy work and stuff. Including Sabotage?
If spys and perhaps section 31 are rocking around the universe doing... stuff..... i sure as hell would want them to use ships that do not scream "STAR FLEET!!!!!!!!!!!!" when they do it.
For intelligence vessels, such radical departures in look and geometry are actually not a bad thing.
Have to wonder, if those complaining about the Fed ships, are mainly put off by the ships beneath the skins or if it's really the StarTRON stuff that's kind of making them go WTF...
What other skins are available for them (outside of gear visuals) and the like sort of thing...
Cause uh, if I picture them with more of a Fed white/gray sort of thing instead of the Rad 80's Rave skin...they simply look like updated Fed designs.
I would say it's a bit of both. The visual themes that I see on these ships seems like excessive emphasis on "stealth" by following real world aircraft and flattening out the ship's overall shape to reduce detection. With a black but "high tech" skin texture applied to continue the "stealth" theme but also make it seem very advanced. Which gives you the tron pancake look.
The problem is, if you have a stealth ship and it has a cloaking device, it no longer needs to try hard to look like a "stealth" ship. Unless you're going to put on a song and dance about how the shape and hull composites some how reduce the chance of detection while cloaked, it's completely unnecessary.
My suggestion would be to change the hull textures to a dark gray but follow the style of previous star trek ships, smooth and round the hulls a little more and apply classic nacelle design. The stealth look can be achieved with a good hull geometry that isn't full of sharp edges and angles.
Cryptic's designers want to create a Fed ship that hasn't been thought of before. A design series that is unique and special for STO that no one has really imagined. Unfortunately, almost every aspect of Fed ships has already been created, either in fan fiction or other Star Trek entertainment. There are so many future fed ships designed out there that those designs that haven't already been realised are either too futuristic or too rubbish.
Cryptic, unfortunately you nailed the rubbish part.
Now if these upcoming Fed ships were actually section 31, I'd accept that. What I wouldn't accept is section 31 putting their nose into the delta quadrant which has barely been explored, and I don't care how large the threat in that quadrant is to the alpha quadrant species, section 31 is a sinister organisation that does the dirty work for starfleet. They don't make friends with other species, and sending them into the delta quadrant is only going to antagonise that region.
Now back to the main topic. Give us Starfleet ships that look like Starfleet ships. I don't care if they look like a good looking fan art ship, just give us something that we want. A good looking bloody Fed ship!
For some strange reason, you seem to overthink Fed ship designs. Take my advice and stop, look at the movies and tv series, then at deviant art and conjure up something that has ties with them. Then you'll win a fair deal of player support.
Beta Antares Shipyards advanced Starship development project.
CLASSIFIED
Part of the problem, for me at least, is that we know the direction Fed ship tech is headed. We've seen the Enterprise-J. We should be seeing an evolution toward leaner, more slender designs, where shield and (presumably) materials tech is the source of increased ruggedness, as opposed to big chunky hulls and a visibly armored appearance.
We also should't be seeing such glowy hulls. That's just leaking energy all over space. Not stealthy.
According to the article there is "a brand new Tier 6 ship material that will definitely make your new ships stand out." If I had to guess, they are referring to the blue material we see in those pics. They might look better, to some people, if you're allowed to change it to one of the other gray materials already found in the game. Or any designs given to them by Shields.
If it's a new material, in addition to the pre-existing ones, it could mean we can also use the old materials on the new ships. I bet they will look a lot better to people with "classic" colors.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I just want to add that these look far too polygonal for my tastes.
The Klingon and Romulan ships work but the Fed ships need curves, I expect significant pushback.
The Guardian works more for me, particularly if it can be mixed and matched with the Galaxy or Ambassador parts.
But the Fed intelligence ships look like they have a lower polycount budget. Round out those corners and edges and maybe they'll be more workable. But it strikes me as a repeat of design mistakes that I thought this game moved beyond years ago.
The Odyssey, the Venture, and other newer ships generally tried to get away from the bulky/jagged/armored look, to their credit. I don't see why Cryptic is going back there now. Stealthy ships should be sleeker, not more jagged, in my opinion.
Comments
I'm not sure I feel very good about all the T6 being S31, or the implication that S31 is going to be at the forefront of Starfleet's actions in the Delta Quadrant. Looks like we might be railroaded into having our captains work for that organization again. Plus, they look absolutely hideous and nothing at all like Starfleet designs. The vengeance barely resembled a Starfleet design to begin with, this lot are even further removed-the cruiser has more in common with Tholian Aesthetics than Starfleet ones!
The Romulan and Klingon ones are passable at best. The Romulan one looks better than many of the other Cryptic designs, but it's still heavily based off that ugly little monster the Dhealan, and it shows. The nacelles are comically oversized, (it looks like it should be sliding around a skating rink) as usual-and once again Cryytic seems incapable of grasping the concept of curves on a Romulan ship.
The way Cryptic is selling these ships abilities, I'm really dubious about their claims that they won't be OP in regards to the T5u ships. In addition to the special bridge officers (which get to fire off their abilities at commander level, no less) they all get cloaks (including the Fed ones!) and an enhanced battle cloak for the romulans, plus an ability that sounds like some combination of sensor analysis and the exploit system ground combat has. So where's the tradeoff?
For us to be shoehorned into T6, then for it to be so visually unappealing is tough to take. I don't want to fall behind, but I also won't be caught dead flying one of those things. This is bad, bad news. Sorry.
Sounds like S31 will have a big role in DR, and will be spearheading the exploration, if three of the Fed ship designs being S 31 is any indication of things to come...not looking forward to that again.
With all these special abilities, I wonder how on earth they are supposed to be in any way balanced with T5u ships. They sound pretty powerful.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/game-pack/detail/718-delta-rising-operations-pack
Look here
Seriously, if Drake is the lead throughout the Delta Rising story arc, I'll never play Federation again.
Do you think we love your game so much that we are going to buy any piece of rubbish you make? No. Your game is just okay but we are here for STAR TREK. So we want STAR TREK ships and TREK-looking ships at least. And they still look ugly even if they were supposed to be for a new sci-fi IP. If I play DR then I'm going to fly the T5, even if they are inferior because I like those designs.
Get back to Star Trek stuff if you want money.
What a big joke this is.
At least please please change this skin so we can look more like the defiants or sov etc OR AT LEAST JUST MORE 24/25TH Style.
Do tell how much would the pleasure of flying this debris cost us?
$124 for a a delta pack, what a deal, then upgrade costs and finally F6U to really scrap last vestiges of meat from the bones.
In short T5U is a highway robbery, T6 is insult to injury and the looks of T6 ships is just icing to the big steaming pile of... known as Delta Rising.
Games have been creating new Star Trek ships since the 1970s, and more often than not the "iconic" ships of the series were mid-range examples. Most of these have, understandably, fallen by the wayside - who now remembers the D-2 Stingtongue from FASA's tactical combat simulator? Perhaps Cryptic, since it looks like a close cousin of the new Raptor.
Likewise, complaints that the new ships look like the Vengeance... newsflash guys, that's the only "new look" Fed ship of the last decade onscreen. You may not like it, but it's still a logical design path. Besides, the Phantom and Guardian at least look like they've got a clear Fed lineage.
As regards the whole T6>T5U debate, it's still too early to say. Yes, the Intel ships get a Cdr Intel slot; but what does that mean? We still don't know if this is instead of, or in addition to, the normal Cdr Tac / Eng / Sci slot for the type and that will have a massive bearing on how OP (or not) the classes are. Lousy BOff layouts could still leave T5U and lockbox ships as a better (cheaper!) option.
Besides... game design is that you still get to play classic ships at an upgraded level. Other than PVP (where the classics have been outclassed for years) and E-Peen, I can't see why anyone needs more if their primary aim is Star Trek canonicity.
The fact that most of the griping is about that demonstrates that this subjective preference is objectively prevalent to a significant crossection of this game's community. The fact that the primary evaluation is subjective does not mean that it is objectively irrelevant, given the widespread, shared concerns.
Also- it is not an entirely subjective evaluation to say that these designs are a deviation from what is to be expected from Federation ships. There are objective qualities that are not fulfilled.
Couldn't you guys at cryptic take old TOS or even star fleet battles ships and make somewhat new designs out of them? At least they would look more star trek than these do.
What other skins are available for them (outside of gear visuals) and the like sort of thing...
Cause uh, if I picture them with more of a Fed white/gray sort of thing instead of the Rad 80's Rave skin...they simply look like updated Fed designs.
Also we already know that the Rom ship will have customization options, so I assume that the Fed ships will have them too. One option may be a much more orthodox design.
But what *do* you expect from Federation starships?
Over the 250 years of Starfleet ship design covered in STO, there have already been tectonic shifts in style, with little to uniquely identify Starfleet vessels beyond a "saucer and nacelles" configuration which most of the new ships have. Except for the escort, of course, but that is very clearly a descendant of the Defiant (which itself "broke all the rules")... and it's kind of nice that the Escort build has not been left as a total dead end.
STO is now 50 years on from TNG... that's a sizeable chunk of the time from ENT to TOS (in which Starfleet went from patterned, plated hulls to completely smooth ones) or from the movies to TNG (where they went back again...). So it's not surprising that there is another design revolution in the works, which is only being seen with the Dyson and T6 ships. The Odyssey, Armitage et al can be seen as the equivalent of 1945 piston-engine fighters, the ultimate level of a legacy design before it's replaced.
I don't usually buy the packs. Mostly since its hard to convince the wife to spend a lot of $ on a game. So I will pick at it and get what I like the most over the course of the year.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I agree with you as well. I love ships that looks close to cannon. I can understand a little change, but at least they fit in. Some of the new Feds just don't do it for me.
I will be keeping my main ones to play with. Which is actually cannon ships.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You seem to have missed the part where they said that any current ship could do the coming content.
^^
Anyway, the ships certainly are a departure from current Starfleet ships, even the cryptic designed ones.
At the very least, they aren't, well, uninspired like the Klingons and romulan ships.
At some point, departures from the norm are good and every time i look a the avenger i think that they need start to stretch their legs a bit when it comes to fed ships, because coming up with a new geometry seems to be more their style and area of capability than trying to keep true to established doctrine. Yes they can recreate on-tv designs well enough, but when they do designs themselves.. well, look at all the options for the current ship lineup. Is anyone using those ship parts? Remember the Galaxy options? Ranging from puke to outright vomit? The Venture is an example of fed design gone right. We have not have had much of that lately. Just.. the.. avenger... *gah i have to vomit now....
The New t6 ships do not look horrible or something, just different from what we expect in starfleet ships.
These intelligence ships? They have a tholian look to them. Can't help myself....
LORE BOMB!!!!!
So they are Intel ships, right? Spy work and stuff. Including Sabotage?
If spys and perhaps section 31 are rocking around the universe doing... stuff..... i sure as hell would want them to use ships that do not scream "STAR FLEET!!!!!!!!!!!!" when they do it.
For intelligence vessels, such radical departures in look and geometry are actually not a bad thing.
I would say it's a bit of both. The visual themes that I see on these ships seems like excessive emphasis on "stealth" by following real world aircraft and flattening out the ship's overall shape to reduce detection. With a black but "high tech" skin texture applied to continue the "stealth" theme but also make it seem very advanced. Which gives you the tron pancake look.
The problem is, if you have a stealth ship and it has a cloaking device, it no longer needs to try hard to look like a "stealth" ship. Unless you're going to put on a song and dance about how the shape and hull composites some how reduce the chance of detection while cloaked, it's completely unnecessary.
My suggestion would be to change the hull textures to a dark gray but follow the style of previous star trek ships, smooth and round the hulls a little more and apply classic nacelle design. The stealth look can be achieved with a good hull geometry that isn't full of sharp edges and angles.
Cryptic's designers want to create a Fed ship that hasn't been thought of before. A design series that is unique and special for STO that no one has really imagined. Unfortunately, almost every aspect of Fed ships has already been created, either in fan fiction or other Star Trek entertainment. There are so many future fed ships designed out there that those designs that haven't already been realised are either too futuristic or too rubbish.
Cryptic, unfortunately you nailed the rubbish part.
Now if these upcoming Fed ships were actually section 31, I'd accept that. What I wouldn't accept is section 31 putting their nose into the delta quadrant which has barely been explored, and I don't care how large the threat in that quadrant is to the alpha quadrant species, section 31 is a sinister organisation that does the dirty work for starfleet. They don't make friends with other species, and sending them into the delta quadrant is only going to antagonise that region.
Now back to the main topic. Give us Starfleet ships that look like Starfleet ships. I don't care if they look like a good looking fan art ship, just give us something that we want. A good looking bloody Fed ship!
For some strange reason, you seem to overthink Fed ship designs. Take my advice and stop, look at the movies and tv series, then at deviant art and conjure up something that has ties with them. Then you'll win a fair deal of player support.
CLASSIFIED
[/SIGPIC]
Good lord, that thing is the fugliest "ship" I've ever seen.
We also should't be seeing such glowy hulls. That's just leaking energy all over space. Not stealthy.
If it's a new material, in addition to the pre-existing ones, it could mean we can also use the old materials on the new ships. I bet they will look a lot better to people with "classic" colors.
The Klingon and Romulan ships work but the Fed ships need curves, I expect significant pushback.
The Guardian works more for me, particularly if it can be mixed and matched with the Galaxy or Ambassador parts.
But the Fed intelligence ships look like they have a lower polycount budget. Round out those corners and edges and maybe they'll be more workable. But it strikes me as a repeat of design mistakes that I thought this game moved beyond years ago.
The Odyssey, the Venture, and other newer ships generally tried to get away from the bulky/jagged/armored look, to their credit. I don't see why Cryptic is going back there now. Stealthy ships should be sleeker, not more jagged, in my opinion.