Sci/Support Build?

thore187 · August 2014

I've been playing STO for awhile now and have played exclusively as a Tac (I like making things go boom). But after reading players complaining recently about the lack of support players due to the DPS arms race, I decided to give it a try.

Thing about it is, I have no expertise in doing so. I'm not sure how to spec/equip one properly for maximum effect, and since this is not exactly my thing, I'm trying to lessen the frustration factor so I don't get demotivated. To that end, I thought I'd reach out to some of you who have much more experience in this area for some advice before I get started.

I'm interested primarily in team support (i.e. healing myself and others, crowd control, debuffing etc).

Any advice regarding; Complete builds and/or Skills, Traits, Equipment, Boffs, Doffs, Ships (with the best capabilities/seating to facilitate the goals above, free to start and c-store for later on), would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

dahminus · August 2014

Pve or pvp?

Utilizing torps with projectile doffs/gws with aftershock/reverse tractor beam repulsers do well for the cc.

Aux2sif/extend shield/et/st/ hazard emitters are excellent for heals

Not much more you need to know besides throwing the above on a ship.

Cheers,hope it was helpful

thore187 · August 2014

dahminus wrote: »

Pve or pvp?

Utilizing torps with projectile doffs/gws with aftershock/reverse tractor beam repulsers do well for the cc.

Aux2sif/extend shield/et/st/ hazard emitters are excellent for heals

Not much more you need to know besides throwing the above on a ship.

Cheers,hope it was helpful

PvE primarily. Yes, it is indeed helpful. Thank You.

But what about skills. I know about the skill planner website, you wouldn't happen to know of any all-around good sci builds there would you?

dahminus · August 2014

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=healerskills_0

Changed my skills around to get particle gen and graviton in. Change energy skills to projectile if you go torps

thore187 · August 2014

dahminus wrote: »

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=healerskills_0

Changed my skills around to get particle gen and graviton in. Change energy skills to projectile if you go torps

I'll definitely take a look at it, thanks! I really appreciate the resident shipwright taking the time to help me with my little project.

Also, I'd just like to say; I've seen you in many other build threads offering help, and although I didn't post, I've found a lot of your advice very useful - and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So thanks on behalf of all of us lurkers for that as well.

Cheers.

arkatdt · August 2014

You can run something like this: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=mmresolanae_6771

especially since people are recommending not getting rep deflectors, engines, etc. because of the new expansion. You could also drop the same build in a Fleet RSV in you do not want to get a Vesta. I find that you can do a fair bit on dps with this ship and still support your teammates. The GW3 is particularly effective for CC.

dahminus · August 2014

Hey, thanks man.

Really do appreciate the thanks. Glad I was able to improve your enjoyment of the game

mcduffie369 · August 2014

Why not give my youtube channel a look.

thore187 · August 2014

arkatdt wrote: »

You can run something like this: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=mmresolanae_6771

especially since people are recommending not getting rep deflectors, engines, etc. because of the new expansion. You could also drop the same build in a Fleet RSV in you do not want to get a Vesta. I find that you can do a fair bit on dps with this ship and still support your teammates. The GW3 is particularly effective for CC.

Thanks. I'll give it a look.

DPS isn't what I'm going for here at all. I've already got a couple of DPS beast Tacs. I really just want to be strictly support for this. Of course having a little DPS icing on top never hurts though, amiright?

mcduffie369 wrote: »

Why not give my youtube channel a look.

I'll give your channel a look, and I'll give you a sub for the help. Thanks!

simeion1 · August 2014

Since this is a PVE build I would tell you to consider a drain build. I would run ES2/3 and TR2/3. I prefer the TR3 because it is an AOE drain. I also run tachyon beam 3. All three of these powers are deflector abilities so running three purple deflector doff will usually always keep the three powers on global cool down. I do play my Vesta DPS heavy but my Palisades is a drain build. I would tell you to run poloron weapons. Some other things that could help. The Jem'hadar deflector will help in flow cap, but if you want more drain think about the two piece Omega set bonus, it drains shield power based off flow cap and IIRC weapons power. Also pick up the Voth that drains weapons power when you activate a tac ability, I think he is a diplomat or an advisor. These plus a plasmonic leech and an aceton assimulator will help drain power levels. I prefer to run my science vessel with 4 energy weapons and 2 torps(maybe mines in the rear). Also run after shock TR doff. It is pretty fun running this in pug groups in the public queues. The best thing about drain is, it effect the entire NPCs. Dps is lower because of now weapons power, defence is lower because of no eng power, and shields go off line with no shield power.

lucho80 · August 2014

mcduffie369 wrote: »

Why not give my youtube channel a look.

To the OP, please don't. We tried helping him improve the build in the video and he wouldn't listen to us. Not worth your time. Stick with dahminus's suggestion.

simeion1 · August 2014

lucho80 wrote: »

To the OP, please don't. We tried helping him improve the build in the video and he wouldn't listen to us. Not worth your time. Stick with dahminus's suggestion.

I second this motion. And if you want to talk about drain build talk to this guy.

adamkafei · August 2014

I would suggest you have a flick through these http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/science.html

Most newer science ships can do the support bit and blow things up at the same time due to the low aux requirement for most control effects.

My ship recommendations would be either the Vesta or the Fleet Nova, though if you're on a budget the Luna serves as a good budget science ship. If you're going for a more heal oriented support build then you can adapt my Trident builds to the mirror Nova using beams instead of cannons.

lucho80 · August 2014

adamkafei wrote: »

Most newer science ships can do the support bit and blow things up at the same time due to the low aux requirement for most control effects.

Disclaimer: Tachyon Beam and Tyken's Rift use Aux level to determine energy drain. Energy Siphon uses it for duration length which maxes out at 24.6 seconds.

dareau · August 2014

First off, because the skills vary so much, I wouldn't recommend the "true support" attempt to mix everything together.

Therefore, go either healer, CC, or drainer. Don't try to mix them together, though if you have a leftover slot or two go ahead and splash into a different job...

Myself, I angle for a slightly more CC oriented build, GW, Tractor beam, TBRs with Voth pull DOff. Went with Energy Syphon II for a splash of drain / self buff / single target mangling (and at the time I picked it, Tyken's was conflicting with GW).

thore187 · August 2014

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions. I'm taking them all into consideration. However, I just rolled the character mere hours before the OP and am still slinking my way through the Klingon Arc so it may be a few days until I get to the "meat and potatoes' of the build. The skill planning is the most crucial piece I needed at this time in order to save myself from multiple respecs (silver player) down the line.

So please understand I may not post here everyday in response to suggestions but do not misinterpret that as me abandoning the thread. I'm sure I'll post with increasing frequency as the build progresses and questions develop.

lucho80 wrote: »

To the OP, please don't. We tried helping him improve the build in the video and he wouldn't listen to us. Not worth your time. Stick with dahminus's suggestion.

I appreciate the heads up. I took a look at his channel and, as you mentioned, there is room for improvement even the neophyte sci captain in me spotted.

Although I'm not sure how much of his build I will actually use, I still thank him for his help.

adamkafei wrote: »

I would suggest you have a flick through these http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/science.html

Most newer science ships can do the support bit and blow things up at the same time due to the low aux requirement for most control effects.

My ship recommendations would be either the Vesta or the Fleet Nova, though if you're on a budget the Luna serves as a good budget science ship. If you're going for a more heal oriented support build then you can adapt my Trident builds to the mirror Nova using beams instead of cannons.

Thanks for the link. Very informative. A great website in general that I had no idea existed.

If things work out and I like the playstyle I'm probably going Vesta. I see you didn't suggest the new Dyson Sci ships, what's the knock there?

dareau wrote: »

First off, because the skills vary so much, I wouldn't recommend the "true support" attempt to mix everything together.

Therefore, go either healer, CC, or drainer. Don't try to mix them together, though if you have a leftover slot or two go ahead and splash into a different job...

Myself, I angle for a slightly more CC oriented build, GW, Tractor beam, TBRs with Voth pull DOff. Went with Energy Syphon II for a splash of drain / self buff / single target mangling (and at the time I picked it, Tyken's was conflicting with GW).

I don't want to be a one trick pony, however the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" doesn't appeal to me either. So if, hypothetically, I wanted to meld two together instead of all three, which two's skill sets are most compatible? And if you don't mind, what are the skill variables at play between the three? Since at this early stage of the build (leveling) skill selection is most important.

However, if I HAVE to choose just one to specialize in it would probably be drain. As, to me, it would seem to be the most useful across the board. I think I'm going to use dahminus's suggested skill path since his advice has worked out pretty well for me in the past. How would you tweak his tree for a drain build, or is it pretty well setup already?

Thanks again to all for the help. Keep the suggestions coming. Because as Spock said; "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" is usually the best way to go.

Cheers.

adamkafei · August 2014

thore187 wrote: »

Thanks for the link. Very informative. A great website in general that I had no idea existed.

Thanks, it's a (not so) little project of mine, hence the large number of to-be pages.

If things work out and I like the playstyle I'm probably going Vesta. I see you didn't suggest the new Dyson Sci ships, what's the knock there?

There's nothing exactly wrong with the Dyson ships, I just find that when piloting them if I play them as science ships then they seem to want to be escorts and vice versa, I think it's bad stat design in that respect.

I don't want to be a one trick pony, however the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" doesn't appeal to me either. So if, hypothetically, I wanted to meld two together instead of all three, which two's skill sets are most compatible?

On this, you may have noticed a lot of my science builds tend to balance their science focus with conventional damage, I find this to be the most effective way to do science in the current dps based meta. On drains, it should be noted that NPCs are notoriously resilient to them (in most cases accused of being immune) I can't testify to this myself as I haven't tried a drain build on NPCs for that reason.

lucho80 · August 2014

dareau wrote: »

First off, because the skills vary so much, I wouldn't recommend the "true support" attempt to mix everything together.

Therefore, go either healer, CC, or drainer. Don't try to mix them together, though if you have a leftover slot or two go ahead and splash into a different job...

Myself, I angle for a slightly more CC oriented build, GW, Tractor beam, TBRs with Voth pull DOff. Went with Energy Syphon II for a splash of drain / self buff / single target mangling (and at the time I picked it, Tyken's was conflicting with GW).

For PvE, you can probably get away with doing a good drainer with some healing skill and still do fine, but it will cost you (That biotech patch skill is great but very damn expensive now). Most PvE content doesn't require the massive flow caps investment PvP requires.

mehen · August 2014

I've always leaned towards a Nebula build centered on tractor beam repulsors with the aforementioned doff to turn it into a pull. The problem with a lot of current meta science ships is that they can't really handle the heat of being targeted by a bunch of AI, which is what the Nebula can do. It also helps to be an Engineering Captain, too.

The Nebula can efficiently run an Aux2Bat build so you're constantly cycling out gravity well 3 and TBR 2, and that's straight up kinetic damage. It doesn't let you run a shockwave doff, but imo it doesn't matter when you have plenty of CC from the shortened cd Aux2Bat gives you. If you wanted to get crazy, you could always run beams for FAW spam with Feedback Pulse 3 to really TRIBBLE off the AI. Then, you could run two copies of TBR and constantly be pulling enemies toward you. I know my escort buddies love it when I neatly group up enemies for them, and tbh in PvE that's all you really need. Drain is fun and all, but I've found it's better for PvP than as support for PvE.

ryakidrys · August 2014

edalgo wrote: »

Please in the name of all that is holy and sacred do NOT put Aux2batt on a Nebula

I tried it once before. I tried to make it into a sci/ tank with an eng toon. It failed miserably for me. So, I respectfully second the advice of NOT doing the aux to batt thing on it.......

capemike4 · August 2014

If you can afford it, go for a Fleet Nebula Retrofit....

My Sci VA has been maining one since the moment I bought it(thank goodness for the Fleet Module discount if you own the Z-store model!), and I've spent quite a bit of time turning it into a Support ship and defensive beast!

It's pure PvE-oriented, though, so keep that in mind for any advice I offer, heh.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/CapeMike/screenshot_2014-08-24-21-42-57.jpg

The bad news(if you can call it that...I despise playing the 'meta game') is that, with the setup I have, you'll be topping out around 3500 dps...the GOOD news is that the majority of that damage comes from crowd control and, with a bit of timing, utterly shutting down targets, allowing my pew-pew friends a nice juicy 'fish in a barrel' setup, while I hang around the edge, tossing out heals and repairs with little danger to myself, considering that I have 51k hull and far more than enough shield regen options to tank, should I need to!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/CapeMike/screenshot_2014-08-25-21-44-45.jpg

mehen · August 2014

ryakidrys wrote: »

I tried it once before. I tried to make it into a sci/ tank with an eng toon. It failed miserably for me. So, I respectfully second the advice of NOT doing the aux to batt thing on it.......

Like I said, it's for PvE. And if you failed as an Engi Captain in a Nebula refit, then you're doing something wrong. Can have three shield heals, excellent CC, and when run as a torp boat I easily get 6k+ dps on eSTFs. Thought about running as a beam boat, but incredibly boring. The build requires you to be on top of cd's and where you are in relation to everything, so it's not for everyone. But I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, it's as close to getting Vesta-dps as I've been able to get with the space manatee.

Also, with a good team you won't have to worry about throwing out heals, although you will have at least TSSII on there.

hfmudd · September 2014

If I can slip into this thread as someone else looking for tips...

I have a Luna (regular, not Fleet, at least for now) that I'm finally getting around to upgrading from this build (current). Note that while the site doesn't seem to be saving the modifiers for some reason, those beam arrays are all the old [Acc][CrtH][Borg] phasers that you can't get anymore - whatever I had in the bank that was purple.

My intended playstyle for this is strictly PvE, with an eye to control and/or heal. (Yes, I'm already looking at the Kay builds for the Luna; nice site, happy to learn about it.) Looking more to improve, rather than change, my weapons; I don't intend to abandon either phasers or torpedoes - I just got the gravtorp, front, yesterday. I'm more flexible on changing up consoles, devices, etc.

Already anticipating slotting in some Tac Vuln Exploiters in place of the phaser relays and warhead console. The one Energy Signature Dampener (res4b) was a lucky drop while leveling Dyson rep. Should I hit the store for another, or put something else in that other slot? Finally, the TDF was something I got from buying the Nebula on the way up - slotted it in for "what the heck" and to get continuing use out of it. Feel free to suggest something better.

ryakidrys · September 2014

mehen wrote: »

if you failed as an Engi Captain in a Nebula refit, then you're doing something wrong.

Certainly I did something wrong. I tried to make the nebula into a tank for the team, while trying to drain the enemy of power. That shield modifier seduced me to try it. I went back to the Oddy/ galaxy or whatever tank after I tried it out for a few days. When I say tank, I mean getting the spheres, gateway and even the last cube in infected elite firing at me instead of others. I've got high standards when it comes to tanking, and it just didn't work well enough for me to stick with it.

mehen · September 2014

ryakidrys wrote: »

Certainly I did something wrong. I tried to make the nebula into a tank for the team, while trying to drain the enemy of power. That shield modifier seduced me to try it. I went back to the Oddy/ galaxy or whatever tank after I tried it out for a few days. When I say tank, I mean getting the spheres, gateway and even the last cube in infected elite firing at me instead of others. I've got high standards when it comes to tanking, and it just didn't work well enough for me to stick with it.

notsureifserious.jpg

The Aux2Bat isn't intended to be a heavy tanking build, and if you're looking for serious tanking I'd suggest a carrier or cruiser. The Nebula is a hybrid vessel, so while she can tank you're a lot better off going an alt-tank/cc role that lines up enemies easier for people to kill. Sure, you won't last quite as long as a cruiser, but it doesn't matter when everyone is killing things faster. I find tanking much more satisfying when the enemy doesn't get a lot of time to actually harm my ship.

dahminus · September 2014

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=nebutank_0

This is how I'd go for a nebula tank, looks pretty decent. Of course without the cruiser command it's not uber awesome...but still pretty good

Sci/Support Build?

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