The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
So to upgrade a ship "fully" we have to pay the upgrade fee and then also buy a T6 ship that we need to level up to then get the trait for the T5U ship?
So you expect that every purchase you have made will be relevant and top tier until the end of time?
Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable. But I come from an era when MMOs focused primarily on subscription fees instead of microtransactions. It's difficult for me to adapt to certain aspects the industry is evolving into.
When you spend money on something considered to be best-of-the-best, top-of-the-line, or whatever... advertised as such? I personally think as a matter of ethics (not business) that that should be honored in the future.
I'm not saying it has to, just that it should.
In-game equipment, such as Mk XI, Mk XII, or whatever... things from the rep systems, and basically earned through entirely in-game means should be considered far more malleable since they are things earned with time and effort spent, rather than real world money.
That's where I see the disconnect. Players expect money spent on their purchases will have long-term value. It's a one-time microtransaction fee. You pay $50 for this 3-pack of ships and never have to worry about having a top-of-the-line ship again.
I understand that's not how it works in reality. But Cryptic kind of put themselves into this position by capitalizing on spaceships being one of the biggest selling points of the game. Asking players to fork over a few dollars more for things they already spent $25, $50, or $100 so they can stay top-of-the-line (that isn't even getting into the nitty-gritty of T5-U and T6), I think is a bit unreasonable.
Am I reading the table chart correctly that C-Store ships are seperated from their Fleet versions?
So, I would have to pay for the base Avenger for an Account upgrade unlock and for the Fleet Avenger which I only have on my main seperately?
If this is true I am hugely disappointed how this system is handled. I already paid double for the Fleet version and now I shall pay tripple for a still inferior T5-U version ship. This is really sad and I am disappointed.
1. Store Unlocked Fleet ships should be made upgradeble free of cost. E.g. If I have the C-Store Version of the Avenger and the Fleet Avenger, I would upgrade the Fleet Version to T5-U for free. (Why on earth are you expecting me to pay 3 times the cost? 1. Store, 2. Fleet Module+ Fleet Credits and 3. T5-Upgrade module????) This is nothing but greedy.
2. Fleet ships should be upgraded much more closer to T6 versions. I am thinking of giving them at least a Specialist Seating while the C-Store would not get it.
Furthermore, I see a another let down coming. The iconic Star Trek ships (Sovereign, Galaxy, Intrepid etc) will all be inferior since they have been used for max T5 ships. The only way - and that is what I see coming- is that Cryptic will release a T6 version of those ships which you will have to pay for again...
So one thing I am not seeing is this. Lockbox ships, Lobi ships, and Promotional ships only get to T5U. I've seen a few others point out this factor. But what about the fact that the JHAS was already stated as on the list to receive a "free T6" upgrade. Why TRIBBLE us at this point?
Need help with a mission to beat it? Visit http://pilotreviewshow.com to learn how we can help!
So one thing I am not seeing is this. Lockbox ships, Lobi ships, and Promotional ships only get to T5U. I've seen a few others point out this factor. But what about the fact that the JHAS was already stated as on the list to receive a "free T6" upgrade. Why TRIBBLE us at this point?
All Lockbox Ships and Lobi Ships are getting upgraded to T6, not T5-U.
So to upgrade a ship "fully" we have to pay the upgrade fee and then also buy a T6 ship that we need to level up to then get the trait for the T5U ship?
LOL
Yep. I don't think this feature is made to save people money, it is made to allow someone to fly their favorite (T5 c-store) ship at endgame. And as someone who uses Canon ships almost exclusively, I am very glad that after ranking up the new ships to get their traits I can go back to the classic ships.
So one thing I am not seeing is this. Lockbox ships, Lobi ships, and Promotional ships only get to T5U. I've seen a few others point out this factor. But what about the fact that the JHAS was already stated as on the list to receive a "free T6" upgrade. Why TRIBBLE us at this point?
To be fair, they did say it'll be upgraded to have "Tier 6 capabilities" not Tier 6... Just its capabilities, whatever that means, well, we now know.
So you expect that every purchase you have made will be relevant and top tier until the end of time?
Given that this game has had a level cap end game for most of 4 years -- it was logical to assume that one's purchases (especially at the cstore price points) would not be a waste of money.
"All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade."
The [Redacted[ Officer slot is only on T6 ships and not tied to the Player, that is a disappointment, as it would have made since for a player of that rank REGARDLESS of ship to have been able to have an [Redacted] Officer as they're aide as per the on screen admirals in TNG and DS9.
Your charging us for FLEET ships! We already were charged for Fleet Ships! In some cases quite a lot of time and effort went into fleet ships! a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit for example, requires a T5 Starbase (so all the work and dilithium that went into that... that's close to 1500 man hours) the actual money cost, either 2000 or 500 zen depending on if we had already bought a 2000 zen ship, so really 2000 or 2500.
And now after telling us "not to worry your T5 ships will be upgrade-able so they can compete" you hit us with a "so long as you pay us," addendum. I'm sorry to say it this way, but what are you mad, are you attempting to drive off playerbase?
I am not screaming Doom, there is time to save this and a simple way to do it too. If we have spent money on getting a ship in our inventory, we should not have to spend money again to upgrade that ship. Simple as that. Fleet module spent on a ship, no money to upgrade, bought it in the Z-Store, no money to upgrade, got it from Lobi, or lockbox, no money to upgrade, event or special giveaway ship no money to upgrade.
Only those ships which are free should be asked to pay for they're upgrades if at all, as you stated that we would be able to upgrade and not to worry about it. Well hitting me with what amounts to a pay wall to upgrade my existing ships is worrisome. This is actually ridiculous game design, as it borders on enforcing players to pay to be able to bring what they have, or pay to get the new ship. Either way you WILL pay something to play the new content, but we won't be charging for the new expansion, just for every ship you own.
My main character alone this is going to be (assuming $5 a ship here) a $50 dollar endeavor to upgrade all my Fleet ships, and that doesn't include the upgrades for my Romulan or my Klingon mains, who don't get to benefit from the global unlock of the upgrade, they're going to be at least $15 each themselves!
So you aren't charging for an expansion but are planning to charge for T6 ships, and to upgrade any give ship to T5U means that effectively to play the new content we are being charged for the average player from my fleet between $30 and $150 dollars! We have one player with over 100 ships, stretched over four accounts, as there is a limit to alt characters... I won't even get into what's going to happen to his wallet. (For the record he is medically disabled this is his primary distraction, and more power to him for it)
What you have set up here is an excellent way to gouge us for more money all the while stating "o we aren't going to charge anyone for the new expansion" all the while charging us for each ship, effectively a second time. I am not a fan of this style of "game design" which is in fact designed to part a group of players with the money from they're wallets as fast as possible. It's called a Pay Wall... and it isn't something we have ever had to deal with in this game before. Why would you put a paywall into this game now? We have been so successful without them, lockbox ships are plentiful in the game, meaning that people are buying keys like hotcakes, as the lockbox percentage is last I checked 0.50%
I really am pleading with you for the good of the population of the game, to reconsider this decision, as it feels to me and my fleeties at least as if we were mislead, and that we are being gouged for a second payment on our bought and paid for ships.
Please note that everything detailed here is subject to change due to feedback.
We also encourage you to hop onto our test server Tribble to experience this system first hand when it becomes available.
You want feedback? THEN RELEASE TRIBBLE TO THE MAJORITY OF THE GAMES POPULATION. ME AND OTHER SILVERS WANT TO TEST THIS!
Kurland Here Kurland Here This is Kurland Kurland Kurland Here Kurland, Do you copy?
In our latest Dev blog, Phil Gorngonzolla Zeleski, Systems Lead share all the crucial details on upgrading your Tier 5 ship to be competitive in the Delta Quadrant and beyond!
All Lockbox Ships and Lobi Ships are getting upgraded to T6, not T5-U.
Note this.... Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
It says T5-U, NOT T6.
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The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship has already been confirmed to be instantly upgraded to Tier 6 for Free (as mentioned in the JHAS Promo).
I drew the conclusion that all Lockbox/Lobi ships would be T6.
So either the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be T5-U instead of T6 (like it said in the promo), therefore making the promo blatant false advertising.
Or all ships in that list are also upgraded to T6 for free.
"With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost."
Notice how they said Tier 6 capabilities! It was used so people couldn't catch them on a legality and their sales of Romulan Duty Officer Packs didn't plummet.
Than how would Cryptic sell NEW Lockbox ships ? I never expected them to upgrade them to full T6. Free upgrade is nice.
Keys, keys, keys? If I recall, it's the biggest money-maker they have. Making all Lockbox ships T6 would simply give people more incentive to gamble away in the hopes of getting a lockbox ship.
The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship has already been confirmed to be instantly upgraded to Tier 6 for Free (as mentioned in the JHAS Promo).
I drew the conclusion that all Lockbox/Lobi ships would be T6.
So either the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be T5-U instead of T6 (like it said in the promo), therefore making the promo blatant false advertising.
Or all ships in that list are also upgraded to T6 for free.
I wish that would be tru....
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
So some of my t5 ship zen ships cost me 2500 zen or more if I went ahead and then purchased the fleet ship varient for it later (The fleet ships often do not come with specialized consoles that come with the zen ships). Now to upgrade them to even less then a t6 ship will cost me another 500 to 1000 zen give or take.
So let me get this straight again. My Fleet Long Range Science Refit using the console I got from the Long Range Science Refit zen ship will now cost me more zen to make it a crappy version of a t6 ship.
I know you said "not required" but then you turn around and say "only the more elite of the end game material will benefit from t6 ships". Except what do you think the majority of us end up doing when we hit end game? Let me give you a hint... we do elites and pvp.
So our choice is, be totally substandard in elites and pvp, or pay a ton of money for brand new ships, when we've already paid money for old ships.
I'm especially pissed about the Dyson zen ships. I bought the entire pack at over 50 dollars. Now I'm being told to upgrade those three ships is going to cost me another, at minimum, 1500 zen and they will be substandard at end game.
Note this.... Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
"With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost." Notice how they said Tier 6 capabilities! It was used so people couldn't catch them on a legality and their sales of Romulan Duty Officer Packs didn't plummet.
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
It is funny that the free Risian Corvette will be light years better than my very expensive Fleet Assault cruiser on season X release. For the Free players it is a good thing for those of us that have paid money to the game it is not. In fact that is the one thing that really stands out to me with this announcement.
Cryptic is very clearing treating freeloaders (not that there is anything wrong with that) better than those of us that pay their salaries by spending actual money.
- Starship Trait
- Additional BO ability
- Specialized BO seats
The above list seems like gamechangers for ships. (And is half the list of features -- not just "a few bells and whistles.")
If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but that will make T5Us obsolete from the start.
I have to agree...this is very disappointing, but it's exactly what I expected. I'm kind of annoyed because I play this game to use canon ships that I saw when I watched the Star Trek series and movies. This basically confirms that all the canon ships that I have will pretty much suck when compared to the new T6 ships. So basically, I need to have some ugly cryptic designed T6 ship if I want to remain competitive in PvP or enjoy any of the new ship features...that's lovely. :rolleyes:
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
(this is actually the FOURTH time I had to post this exact thing)
Wrong!
As you can see, upgraded Tier 5 ships share many of the benefits of a Tier 6 starship with a few exceptions.
Below is a table that outlines precisely which benefits T5-U and T6 ships receive.
T5-U starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally..............The fifth Starship Mastery level on Tier 6 ships unlocks the starships trait.
Tier 5U only go to level 4. Level 5 is required to get the special trait and only T6 ships go to level 5. I saw nothing in the blog that would indicate that T5U ships would ever be able to get the special trait. From the looks of things leveling up your T5U ship stops 1 level shy of ever being able to get it.
I can understand T5U ships not getting a special bridge officer station, but they should at least be able to go to level 5 and unlock the special trait. Otherwise the gap between a fully upgraded T5 and T6 is going to be a major difference and still make it feel like our ships are obsolete.
Comments
So to upgrade a ship "fully" we have to pay the upgrade fee and then also buy a T6 ship that we need to level up to then get the trait for the T5U ship?
LOL
Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable. But I come from an era when MMOs focused primarily on subscription fees instead of microtransactions. It's difficult for me to adapt to certain aspects the industry is evolving into.
When you spend money on something considered to be best-of-the-best, top-of-the-line, or whatever... advertised as such? I personally think as a matter of ethics (not business) that that should be honored in the future.
I'm not saying it has to, just that it should.
In-game equipment, such as Mk XI, Mk XII, or whatever... things from the rep systems, and basically earned through entirely in-game means should be considered far more malleable since they are things earned with time and effort spent, rather than real world money.
That's where I see the disconnect. Players expect money spent on their purchases will have long-term value. It's a one-time microtransaction fee. You pay $50 for this 3-pack of ships and never have to worry about having a top-of-the-line ship again.
I understand that's not how it works in reality. But Cryptic kind of put themselves into this position by capitalizing on spaceships being one of the biggest selling points of the game. Asking players to fork over a few dollars more for things they already spent $25, $50, or $100 so they can stay top-of-the-line (that isn't even getting into the nitty-gritty of T5-U and T6), I think is a bit unreasonable.
So, I would have to pay for the base Avenger for an Account upgrade unlock and for the Fleet Avenger which I only have on my main seperately?
If this is true I am hugely disappointed how this system is handled. I already paid double for the Fleet version and now I shall pay tripple for a still inferior T5-U version ship. This is really sad and I am disappointed.
1. Store Unlocked Fleet ships should be made upgradeble free of cost. E.g. If I have the C-Store Version of the Avenger and the Fleet Avenger, I would upgrade the Fleet Version to T5-U for free. (Why on earth are you expecting me to pay 3 times the cost? 1. Store, 2. Fleet Module+ Fleet Credits and 3. T5-Upgrade module????) This is nothing but greedy.
2. Fleet ships should be upgraded much more closer to T6 versions. I am thinking of giving them at least a Specialist Seating while the C-Store would not get it.
Furthermore, I see a another let down coming. The iconic Star Trek ships (Sovereign, Galaxy, Intrepid etc) will all be inferior since they have been used for max T5 ships. The only way - and that is what I see coming- is that Cryptic will release a T6 version of those ships which you will have to pay for again...
Top DPS 102k
All Lockbox Ships and Lobi Ships are getting upgraded to T6, not T5-U.
Yep. I don't think this feature is made to save people money, it is made to allow someone to fly their favorite (T5 c-store) ship at endgame. And as someone who uses Canon ships almost exclusively, I am very glad that after ranking up the new ships to get their traits I can go back to the classic ships.
I'm not sure where you're reading this but I read it as lockbox ships go to 5U.
To be fair, they did say it'll be upgraded to have "Tier 6 capabilities" not Tier 6... Just its capabilities, whatever that means, well, we now know.
That would be the full list of upgradable starships which is located in the very dev blog this thread is about.
Given that this game has had a level cap end game for most of 4 years -- it was logical to assume that one's purchases (especially at the cstore price points) would not be a waste of money.
Wrong... Upgraded to have "Tier 6 capabilities." Meaning T5-U
They are just upgraded to T5U for free but not T6.
I am afraid that you are mistaken.
From the blog:
"All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade."
The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship has already been confirmed to be instantly upgraded to Tier 6 for Free (as mentioned in the JHAS Promo).
I drew the conclusion that all Lockbox/Lobi ships would be T6.
So either the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be T5-U instead of T6 (like it said in the promo), therefore making the promo blatant false advertising.
Or all ships in that list are also upgraded to T6 for free.
Link relevant to discussion.
The [Redacted[ Officer slot is only on T6 ships and not tied to the Player, that is a disappointment, as it would have made since for a player of that rank REGARDLESS of ship to have been able to have an [Redacted] Officer as they're aide as per the on screen admirals in TNG and DS9.
Your charging us for FLEET ships! We already were charged for Fleet Ships! In some cases quite a lot of time and effort went into fleet ships! a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit for example, requires a T5 Starbase (so all the work and dilithium that went into that... that's close to 1500 man hours) the actual money cost, either 2000 or 500 zen depending on if we had already bought a 2000 zen ship, so really 2000 or 2500.
And now after telling us "not to worry your T5 ships will be upgrade-able so they can compete" you hit us with a "so long as you pay us," addendum. I'm sorry to say it this way, but what are you mad, are you attempting to drive off playerbase?
I am not screaming Doom, there is time to save this and a simple way to do it too. If we have spent money on getting a ship in our inventory, we should not have to spend money again to upgrade that ship. Simple as that. Fleet module spent on a ship, no money to upgrade, bought it in the Z-Store, no money to upgrade, got it from Lobi, or lockbox, no money to upgrade, event or special giveaway ship no money to upgrade.
Only those ships which are free should be asked to pay for they're upgrades if at all, as you stated that we would be able to upgrade and not to worry about it. Well hitting me with what amounts to a pay wall to upgrade my existing ships is worrisome. This is actually ridiculous game design, as it borders on enforcing players to pay to be able to bring what they have, or pay to get the new ship. Either way you WILL pay something to play the new content, but we won't be charging for the new expansion, just for every ship you own.
My main character alone this is going to be (assuming $5 a ship here) a $50 dollar endeavor to upgrade all my Fleet ships, and that doesn't include the upgrades for my Romulan or my Klingon mains, who don't get to benefit from the global unlock of the upgrade, they're going to be at least $15 each themselves!
So you aren't charging for an expansion but are planning to charge for T6 ships, and to upgrade any give ship to T5U means that effectively to play the new content we are being charged for the average player from my fleet between $30 and $150 dollars! We have one player with over 100 ships, stretched over four accounts, as there is a limit to alt characters... I won't even get into what's going to happen to his wallet. (For the record he is medically disabled this is his primary distraction, and more power to him for it)
What you have set up here is an excellent way to gouge us for more money all the while stating "o we aren't going to charge anyone for the new expansion" all the while charging us for each ship, effectively a second time. I am not a fan of this style of "game design" which is in fact designed to part a group of players with the money from they're wallets as fast as possible. It's called a Pay Wall... and it isn't something we have ever had to deal with in this game before. Why would you put a paywall into this game now? We have been so successful without them, lockbox ships are plentiful in the game, meaning that people are buying keys like hotcakes, as the lockbox percentage is last I checked 0.50%
I really am pleading with you for the good of the population of the game, to reconsider this decision, as it feels to me and my fleeties at least as if we were mislead, and that we are being gouged for a second payment on our bought and paid for ships.
You want feedback? THEN RELEASE TRIBBLE TO THE MAJORITY OF THE GAMES POPULATION. ME AND OTHER SILVERS WANT TO TEST THIS!
Than how would Cryptic sell NEW Lockbox ships ? I never expected them to upgrade them to full T6. Free upgrade is nice.
Note this.... Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
It says T5-U, NOT T6.
Top DPS 102k
"With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost."
Notice how they said Tier 6 capabilities! It was used so people couldn't catch them on a legality and their sales of Romulan Duty Officer Packs didn't plummet.
Keys, keys, keys? If I recall, it's the biggest money-maker they have. Making all Lockbox ships T6 would simply give people more incentive to gamble away in the hopes of getting a lockbox ship.
I wish that would be tru....
So some of my t5 ship zen ships cost me 2500 zen or more if I went ahead and then purchased the fleet ship varient for it later (The fleet ships often do not come with specialized consoles that come with the zen ships). Now to upgrade them to even less then a t6 ship will cost me another 500 to 1000 zen give or take.
So let me get this straight again. My Fleet Long Range Science Refit using the console I got from the Long Range Science Refit zen ship will now cost me more zen to make it a crappy version of a t6 ship.
I know you said "not required" but then you turn around and say "only the more elite of the end game material will benefit from t6 ships". Except what do you think the majority of us end up doing when we hit end game? Let me give you a hint... we do elites and pvp.
So our choice is, be totally substandard in elites and pvp, or pay a ton of money for brand new ships, when we've already paid money for old ships.
I'm especially pissed about the Dyson zen ships. I bought the entire pack at over 50 dollars. Now I'm being told to upgrade those three ships is going to cost me another, at minimum, 1500 zen and they will be substandard at end game.
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
Cryptic is very clearing treating freeloaders (not that there is anything wrong with that) better than those of us that pay their salaries by spending actual money.
So my 10 or so $20 ships are pretty much worthless unless I spent 1/4 to 1/2 the original cost again ? ?
Excuse me while I find a way to properly tell you to F off.
Oh.....wait
Preferably on the Tactical Lieutenant on the Galaxy-X
I have to agree...this is very disappointing, but it's exactly what I expected. I'm kind of annoyed because I play this game to use canon ships that I saw when I watched the Star Trek series and movies. This basically confirms that all the canon ships that I have will pretty much suck when compared to the new T6 ships. So basically, I need to have some ugly cryptic designed T6 ship if I want to remain competitive in PvP or enjoy any of the new ship features...that's lovely. :rolleyes:
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
Wrong! The chart shows: Starship trait - Upgraded Tier 5 [No]; Tier 6 [Yes].
Tier 5U only go to level 4. Level 5 is required to get the special trait and only T6 ships go to level 5. I saw nothing in the blog that would indicate that T5U ships would ever be able to get the special trait. From the looks of things leveling up your T5U ship stops 1 level shy of ever being able to get it.
I can understand T5U ships not getting a special bridge officer station, but they should at least be able to go to level 5 and unlock the special trait. Otherwise the gap between a fully upgraded T5 and T6 is going to be a major difference and still make it feel like our ships are obsolete.