Actally, "we no longer include the forums, or players in general" are the verbatim words of Tacofangs: can't do it more right than that. :P
And I don't see anyone argue that they're not listening to our opinions. I *do* occassionally see ppl feeling ignored, though. Especially when it comes to bugs, as bug-fixing (or, conversely, QA before releasing something) seems to have a very low priority.
Ahh the old "Lets take a dev out of context to rile up the forums" Idea....
Yeah..probably not a good idea...
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
No where does it state they don't want player opinions.
Indeed.
All it does say is that, outside of specific commissioned situations, player opinions are not part of the development process.
It goes on to say that player opinions may, sometimes, make an impact on something but its highly likely not to be a fundamental change. Although it may change how something is presented.
All of which is fair enough.
After all, they're being paid to make decisions, these are decisions.
However, where i have concerns is less about that side of things and far more about how feedback, even when solicited, is used.
Mr Geko's recent comment regarding the feedback on the doff UI from tribble reminded me of a story about Lord Nelson.
In order to ignore orders during a sea battle, he held a telescope to his blind eye, pointed it at the enemy and said, "I see no ships"
Geko said he saw no feedback. Which given we know it was there and not all incoherent rants, means he didn't look.
While ignoring player opinions during the development phase is a valid strategy, ignoring the existence of solicited feedback is less so.
All of which means that, while there certainly is a thread on tribble discussing the meta-game of powers, and while it most certainly is solicted feedback, that's no guarantee that the people who make decisions will read it.......or even acknowledge its existence.
Ahh the old "Lets take a dev out of context to rile up the forums" Idea....
Yeah..probably not a good idea...
Um, no, more like you can't tell a person they should quote a Dev right, when he was, in fact, quoting said Dev verbatim.
And yes, Tacofangs went on to qualify his remark. And if you read a bit back, you'll see I even *agreed* with his rationale not to include players in the decision making process. But he really did say so, was my point.
I've read the whole thread yet still fail to understand your true intentions. Is this some self-destructing masochistic thing going on or - which is much more likely - are you just desperate for attention, any attention. In the first case find some other place to satisfy your needs. In the second case I hope this post helps. You're welcome.
The devs do not listen, they've said as much, and we've been told by at least one exec. producer that we were being punished for not playing the game the right way... the way he intended it for being played. He came right out and said so.
We've asked for certain things, we've asked for less grindy-grinds and we've asked for more story. Instead of working on the exploration maps/instanced random dungeon generator, they took that right out of the game. They have taken entire stories out of the game, broke the STF raids into bite-size pieces for more "grindability" and in general created a Farmvil In Space mentality.
Oh and they've reset entire grinds. Multiple times now. And we have to keep track of multiple currencies and resources.
...
...
...
I don't play nearly as much as I used to because I don't like being punished for not playing the game in the approved manner. Nor do I like having to grind for weeks for something, only to be told I need to open lock-boxes to get Lobi to finish the set. This is coming from a person who bought everything in the C-Store back in the day -- there were plenty of things I wanted, I enjoyed every purchase and I still fly my Galaxy-X. I have all the bridges, I bought all the uniforms... I was willing to pay a fixed rate to get something that was exactly as promised. Click on the picture, pay $25, get a premium ship.
Now I can spend $100 on lockboxes and get nothing except a stack of DOFFS and not enough Lobi to buy anything worth $100.
By the way, long time player here. Been with the game practically since it began. But... they don't care. They are more interested in short-term cash-churn than customer service.
And when enough of those players happen to become a 'trend', it shouldn't come as a surprise that Cryptic disregards many on the forums as whiners and ranters.
.
thats because THEY ARE whiners and ranters ....yeah i said it
I deleted my Romulan character because the character was not getting the 400 day veteran bonus which I am subscribing to the game to get.
I argued and sent several screen shots in and instead of results, I got arguments from Customer Service. So instead of spending money to outfit my character I deleted it.
The vet reward have since been fixed but at the cost of several messages back and forth plus a deleted character which I spent countless hours leveling.
So if i got this right YOU could not be bothered to wait for the fix BUT it did come BUT not when YOU wanted it to and somehow the devs are still to blame because YOU got impatient and deleted your toon?? Cool story bro ..get over your self
Um, no, more like you can't tell a person they should quote a Dev right, when he was, in fact, quoting said Dev verbatim.
And yes, Tacofangs went on to qualify his remark. And if you read a bit back, you'll see I even *agreed* with his rationale not to include players in the decision making process. But he really did say so, was my point.
It may be verbatim, but it's still quote mining. The actual quote in context isn't as bad as the out of context quote makes it out. It makes it out like the forums and players are completely ignored, rather than virtually completely ignored when it comes to upcoming content.
Though it feels like we get ignored for everything anyway, and have to be extremely loud to be heard.
That sounds so familiar. Where did I hear people saying that in the past... Oh yeah, City of Heroes. And the guy that is rumored to have said it back then has gone on to work on CO, NW, and STO.
So yeah I find it plausible that there's someone currently at Cryptic that has that attitude because players are not playing the games the way he wants us to play.
Since his departure the overall quality of the FEs and the game in general has gone up... drastically.
However the damage has been done. Neither side (us, them) will sit down and spell out what we want from the game. They want money. We want certain features, story types and gameplay styles. They want money. We want customizable interiors, we want certain ship skins, we want things that could be sold in the C-store.
Until they start listening I'm just maintaining my character. Not grinding, not playing outside of FEs. No point to playing until they LISTEN to what we want. We WILL give them money if they would listen. But they won't. They have a plan and they won't deviate from it.
We want certain features, story types and gameplay styles. They want money. We want customizable interiors, we want certain ship skins, we want things that could be sold in the C-store...Until they start listening I'm just maintaining my character.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Someone said a long time ago that the Foundry created missions are more of what STO should be all about - well in the sense that there are different things going on in there.
The Foundry can represent the creativity of some of our loyal vets - it was also said, by Devs that the Foundry was supposed to be how STO should be played - in one corner of this Universe anyways.
The Foundry luckily isnt too sad and there are people who seem to be trying to keep it alive and promoting it.
I play a little known game called Kerbal Space and it also has a mission creator - wait no - the whole game is a mission creator (!); it is a SIM.
The new way of MMOs involves player creativity; if we want to take some sadness out we oursleves need to start inputting data.
Thank you for watching my streams by the way - we need more STO streamers thats a sad case over there too it seems.
Comments
Ahh the old "Lets take a dev out of context to rile up the forums" Idea....
Yeah..probably not a good idea...
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Indeed.
All it does say is that, outside of specific commissioned situations, player opinions are not part of the development process.
It goes on to say that player opinions may, sometimes, make an impact on something but its highly likely not to be a fundamental change. Although it may change how something is presented.
All of which is fair enough.
After all, they're being paid to make decisions, these are decisions.
However, where i have concerns is less about that side of things and far more about how feedback, even when solicited, is used.
Mr Geko's recent comment regarding the feedback on the doff UI from tribble reminded me of a story about Lord Nelson.
In order to ignore orders during a sea battle, he held a telescope to his blind eye, pointed it at the enemy and said, "I see no ships"
Geko said he saw no feedback. Which given we know it was there and not all incoherent rants, means he didn't look.
While ignoring player opinions during the development phase is a valid strategy, ignoring the existence of solicited feedback is less so.
All of which means that, while there certainly is a thread on tribble discussing the meta-game of powers, and while it most certainly is solicted feedback, that's no guarantee that the people who make decisions will read it.......or even acknowledge its existence.
Um, no, more like you can't tell a person they should quote a Dev right, when he was, in fact, quoting said Dev verbatim.
And yes, Tacofangs went on to qualify his remark. And if you read a bit back, you'll see I even *agreed* with his rationale not to include players in the decision making process. But he really did say so, was my point.
We've asked for certain things, we've asked for less grindy-grinds and we've asked for more story. Instead of working on the exploration maps/instanced random dungeon generator, they took that right out of the game. They have taken entire stories out of the game, broke the STF raids into bite-size pieces for more "grindability" and in general created a Farmvil In Space mentality.
Oh and they've reset entire grinds. Multiple times now. And we have to keep track of multiple currencies and resources.
...
...
...
I don't play nearly as much as I used to because I don't like being punished for not playing the game in the approved manner. Nor do I like having to grind for weeks for something, only to be told I need to open lock-boxes to get Lobi to finish the set. This is coming from a person who bought everything in the C-Store back in the day -- there were plenty of things I wanted, I enjoyed every purchase and I still fly my Galaxy-X. I have all the bridges, I bought all the uniforms... I was willing to pay a fixed rate to get something that was exactly as promised. Click on the picture, pay $25, get a premium ship.
Now I can spend $100 on lockboxes and get nothing except a stack of DOFFS and not enough Lobi to buy anything worth $100.
By the way, long time player here. Been with the game practically since it began. But... they don't care. They are more interested in short-term cash-churn than customer service.
thats because THEY ARE whiners and ranters ....yeah i said it
So if i got this right YOU could not be bothered to wait for the fix BUT it did come BUT not when YOU wanted it to and somehow the devs are still to blame because YOU got impatient and deleted your toon?? Cool story bro ..get over your self
It was the signal to retreat he said he couldn't see when he raised the telescope to his right eye.
"You know, Foley, I have only one eye. I have a right to be blind sometimes. I really do not see the signal"
It may be verbatim, but it's still quote mining. The actual quote in context isn't as bad as the out of context quote makes it out. It makes it out like the forums and players are completely ignored, rather than virtually completely ignored when it comes to upcoming content.
Though it feels like we get ignored for everything anyway, and have to be extremely loud to be heard.
Since his departure the overall quality of the FEs and the game in general has gone up... drastically.
However the damage has been done. Neither side (us, them) will sit down and spell out what we want from the game. They want money. We want certain features, story types and gameplay styles. They want money. We want customizable interiors, we want certain ship skins, we want things that could be sold in the C-store.
Until they start listening I'm just maintaining my character. Not grinding, not playing outside of FEs. No point to playing until they LISTEN to what we want. We WILL give them money if they would listen. But they won't. They have a plan and they won't deviate from it.
Signal to retreat eh?
Even more appropriate then, maybe.....
Be honest.
When you say "we," you mean "I."
When you say "listening," you mean "obeying."
Someone said a long time ago that the Foundry created missions are more of what STO should be all about - well in the sense that there are different things going on in there.
The Foundry can represent the creativity of some of our loyal vets - it was also said, by Devs that the Foundry was supposed to be how STO should be played - in one corner of this Universe anyways.
The Foundry luckily isnt too sad and there are people who seem to be trying to keep it alive and promoting it.
I play a little known game called Kerbal Space and it also has a mission creator - wait no - the whole game is a mission creator (!); it is a SIM.
The new way of MMOs involves player creativity; if we want to take some sadness out we oursleves need to start inputting data.
Thank you for watching my streams by the way - we need more STO streamers thats a sad case over there too it seems.
Cmdr Hawkeyez
If the context is ... feedback gets ignored by and large ... the context is dead on correct.
Granted, you're using the "You're using my FCT thread" wrong idea. Which isn't working, but keep up the good work, I guess.