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2nd Empire

torgaddon101torgaddon101 Member Posts: 600 Arc User
just wondering if will will see the rise of the 2nd klingon empire in the delta quadrant....?

who have reverted to the old ways and more war like.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    just wondering if will will see the rise of the 2nd klingon empire in the delta quadrant....?

    who have reverted to the old ways and more war like.

    unlikely and these klingons were more interested in their spiritual side then their warlike side after voyager, they went out looking for the kuvah'magh back in the day, going beyond explored space and into cryogenic pods to find this being, they stumbled on voyager and b'lanna and her unborn baby.

    "You would know me before I know the world." - miral
    "You will follow in my footsteps before I have made them." - miral
    "The kuvah'magh is younger than old age and stronger than sickness." - the nehret and miral
    "You will find me after two warring houses make peace." - federation and empire
    "The kuvah'magh will be descended from a noble house." - noted because;
    a. B'lanna learned about her own honor and what she fights for.
    b. "the father of the kuvah'magh will be an honorable warrior." - paris was willing to fight to the death to protect his family and their honor even though janeway got in the way.
    c. the "noble House" could mean Voyager, as everyone on the ship are more family and willing to fight and die for each other and their ship if it came right to it and that Janeway is the head of the house.

    it struck me that Kohlar was very honorable and not too interested in the fight then he was in learning about his religious side of the Kuvah'magh. its entirely possible that the entire colony has grown and become more peaceful in a way in klingon decor and standards then usual and these klingons are non confrontational but are more welcome to strangers and their fellow warriors, however they have not forgotten their honor bound tradition to fight but only when they find a worthy enough enemy.

    at this point the d7 cruiser would of had no more then 450 crewmen at most, that would be just enough to start a colony from scratch without genetic issues, but it still would of taken a while to get their colony built from nothing, finding resources, locating suitable pets and food source that agrees with klingons and the other way around if needed :P. i cant see them having more then a few thousand klingons in one large city and a few villages on the outskirts, maybe a spaceport and a communications center, beyond that, it takes a long time to build ships from the schematics voyager had prior to 2371 in the databanks from the alliance. id figure maybe 8 birds of prey and a cruiser, but anything more then that? i doubt it. the technology would also be vastly antiquated as well because they would be working from 2370's tech and schematics.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Maybe these Klingons found the Kazon, conquered them for breakfast, and now have the forces...



    No, I don't think there will be a 2nd Klingon Empire in the Delta Quadrant.
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  • torgaddon101torgaddon101 Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    spoil sports :P

    will be interesting to see if they appear at some time, then get more warriors of the spiritual nature join them.

    beroth is the spiritual home planet of the klingons, where be'lana found her mother etc... and worf was studying as well.

    time will tell..!
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    it would be interesting the connect the 37's descendants and the klingons to the alpha quadrant and see how they have progressed since, thats assuming they made it into x2.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    The D-7 have a crew complement of 430, even if the ship had 3 times those numbers thats one hell of a statement they had to all beam to Voyager that would make then at 1720.

    Its well above the 160 people required to maintain a stable population of a multi-generational ship (the D-7 standard complement itself is more that enough) but the thing is 30 years later you would just have maybe 2-3 more generations, at best we are looking at a number around 5000 people and at worst around short of 1000 (depending on the number that was on that D-7).

    im aware of the numbers, but take into account variable population and im conservatively putting the crew at 450 on the d7 due to older and young. it is a generational ship but wasnt designed for it, klingon ships rarely are, but they all escaped to voyager and made it off the ship without running voyager on empty before they themselves were offloaded on a world suitable for habitation. assuming best case, those same klingons could have 2 or 3 kids to each family after getting offloaded and gave into their needs and i wouldnt blame em at all stuck on that tin can! and those kids have their own 2 or 3 kids each when they come of age, and your looking at over 30-40 years around from 450 to maybe 3000 or maybe a little more in 3 generations, the older original generation, their kids and their grand kids with new born great grand kids.

    older generation with 450 + 3 kids per family, 450/2=225 x 3= 675 for the original plus 1st generation.
    so these kids come of age and have their own 3 kids, 675-225= 450 x 3= 1350 + 225 = 1575 people and 2nd generation.
    the second generation comes of age and they have their own kids, again 3 each, 1350-450= 900 x 3= 2700 + 450 + 225= 3375 at a rough estimate with all people alive and 3rd generation, all new borns or toddlers.

    a typical town contains around 500-3000 inhabitants and a village usually has between 50-500 people. i mean i wasnt using any math and its likely that would need double checking now i jotted it down, but i put around the thousands without a death in that time which is possible if care is taken.
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  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No.

    Might find the Klingons from VOY: "Prophecy", but a second Klingon Empire is clutching at straws.
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Wouldn't it be like the 3rd Empire? since The Klingon Second Empire tried to invade the Breen home world, and failed.
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  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    But Klingons do not reproduce like rabbits. And you forget about Klingon rituals and combat, which very much impacted on any possible birth rates.


    As for the DQ Klingons, it would be interesting if they are in the expansion and we are able to return to them. I could see them being more religious than the mainstay Klingons and bringing their influence into the Empire. Maybe starting a reformationist movement that eventually could lead it to influencing the Klingon Empire merging into the Federation as it was mentioned in Enterprise by Daniels.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    klingons are not as fussy about their mates as humans are, so it would be important for these people to be fruitful to survive and carry their new found thoughts with them. you would think typical klingons not really worried about this sort of thing but consider, these klingons wanted to change their lives and find some meaning, a purpose, they are alone in the DQ, they still uphold family values and honor, meaning its doubly important to keep the family alive and growing. how would it help them by stagnating such a thing? maybe after reaching 10,000 klingons they can be a little less prodigious about themselves but not to the point of stalling their family and to a greater extent the klingon colony. doesnt make sense.


    in this far away from the empire where there are billions of klingons on good number of worlds, out there its not as important. but out in the DQ its very important.
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  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No 2nd Empire, only the 3rd Borg Dynasty.
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  • torgaddon101torgaddon101 Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ah TRIBBLE....

    me thinks i have an idea for a foundry mission... :)

    problems is i've never used foundry ever..!

    UGC

    here I come for help...
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If they do decide to revisit these guys, they better send the USS Kirk
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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I don't think those Klingons are going to be in a position to enforce their own empire; they're not enough. They'll be lucky to have made it to the a population of 100,000. With that said, it would be nice to run in to them, or to maybe have their colony world as a social/activity zone for KDF players (a home away from home so to speak).
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  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yes, a far more plausible scenario would be that they make contact with the Allied powers and maybe start looking for converts among dissatisfied Klingons.
  • vfpfyasko1vfpfyasko1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    But Klingons do not reproduce like rabbits. And you forget about Klingon rituals and combat, which very much impacted on any possible birth rates.


    As for the DQ Klingons, it would be interesting if they are in the expansion and we are able to return to them. I could see them being more religious than the mainstay Klingons and bringing their influence into the Empire. Maybe starting a reformationist movement that eventually could lead it to influencing the Klingon Empire merging into the Federation as it was mentioned in Enterprise by Daniels.

    Right, but if we look at that Voyager episode it appeared as if they had alot of children and remember this is not a normal Klingon society. They are religious sect an offshoot of what they left behind, the episode claims 204 Klingons beamed over, i cant image them being that large 30yrs later, perhaps about 1000-1500 in population. But my question, the Alpha Quadrant Klingons know about them, could they take over that new planet and become another Empire within the DQ?
    klingons are not as fussy about their mates as humans are, so it would be important for these people to be fruitful to survive and carry their new found thoughts with them. you would think typical klingons not really worried about this sort of thing but consider, these klingons wanted to change their lives and find some meaning, a purpose, they are alone in the DQ, they still uphold family values and honor, meaning its doubly important to keep the family alive and growing. how would it help them by stagnating such a thing? maybe after reaching 10,000 klingons they can be a little less prodigious about themselves but not to the point of stalling their family and to a greater extent the klingon colony. doesnt make sense.


    in this far away from the empire where there are billions of klingon's on good number of worlds, out there its not as important. but out in the DQ its very important.

    That is a good point, they are religious for one and two they would be far more rational in the survival of the population and don't think like normal AQ Klingon's that they left behind. We also dont know what Voyager left behind for them in regards to communication devices, shuttle, replicators but did offer from my understanding what they could give them. The Alpha Quadrant Klingon's iam sure know about them, what is the possibility of them showing up and taking over and creating another Empire in the DQ? Or could it become a religious world like Bajor?
  • vfpfyasko1vfpfyasko1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yes, a far more plausible scenario would be that they make contact with the Allied powers and maybe start looking for converts among dissatisfied Klingons.

    Iam wondering about that samething, AQ Klingon's do have a religious sects, example we saw that many times from Worf visiting some type of religious place.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    vfpfyasko1 wrote: »
    Right, but if we look at that Voyager episode it appeared as if they had alot of children and remember this is not a normal Klingon society. They are religious sect an offshoot of what they left behind, the episode claims 204 Klingons beamed over, i cant image them being that large 30yrs later, perhaps about 1000-1500 in population. But my question, the Alpha Quadrant Klingons know about them, could they take over that new planet and become another Empire within the DQ?

    In a thousand years maybe.
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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Regardless of their numbers, it would be nice for those Klingons to re-establish contact with the Empire in Delta Rising. I'm sure the High Council could use the intel they have gathered from the Delta Quadrant and I assume they'll be glad to see other Klingon kinsmen again.
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  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    The D-7 have a crew complement of 430, even if the ship had 3 times those numbers thats one hell of a statement they had to all beam to Voyager that would make then at 1720.

    Its well above the 160 people required to maintain a stable population of a multi-generational ship (the D-7 standard complement itself is more that enough) but the thing is 30 years later you would just have maybe 2-3 more generations, at best we are looking at a number around 5000 people and at worst around short of 1000 (depending on the number that was on that D-7).

    This is assuming the ship had an equal number of males and females. The 160 number falls apart when they arent pairs.
  • vfpfyasko1vfpfyasko1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Regardless of their numbers, it would be nice for those Klingons to re-establish contact with the Empire in Delta Rising. I'm sure the High Council could use the intel they have gathered from the Delta Quadrant and I assume they'll be glad to see other Klingon kinsmen again.

    It would be interesting to see how the AQ Klingon's would interact with that of the DQ Klingons, as well it wouldn't hurt to introduce AQ Klingons, i cant see the population growing that large. What intel could they receive from these Klingons when they had no ability of flight and in 30yrs, i don't see that unless Voyager left a shuttle behind. But, what if the AQ Klingons took this new homeworld for est in DQ? Not as if the spheres should be reliant upon being there always, we still can assume we dont understand the information from the sphere?
    This is assuming the ship had an equal number of males and females. The 160 number falls apart when they arent pairs.

    According to that Episode in Voyager 204 crew compliment according to Tovak. So, if we are to assume they had a rise in population over 30yrs, perhaps the population would be around 800-1000?
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    vfpfyasko1 wrote: »
    According to that Episode in Voyager 204 crew compliment according to Tovak. So, if we are to assume they had a rise in population over 30yrs, perhaps the population would be around 800-1000?

    the d7 cant hold more then 430 on a typical layout, but a generational ship would need to be strictly balanced, you could get a few more children then expected, depends on the situation and circumstances and you cant expect a man or a woman to go with "you know what" for decades, that would be just horrible! :eek:. assuming a full compliment, the crew quarters had to be tripled up. so the ship could accommodate such a large klingon crew.
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  • vfpfyasko1vfpfyasko1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    the d7 cant hold more then 430 on a typical layout, but a generational ship would need to be strictly balanced, you could get a few more children then expected, depends on the situation and circumstances and you cant expect a man or a woman to go with "you know what" for decades, that would be just horrible! :eek:. assuming a full compliment, the crew quarters had to be tripled up. so the ship could accommodate such a large klingon crew.

    Very true indeed, it would be a modified D7, it is the only way they would be abe to do so. However, when Voyager found them, they only had a crew compliment of 204 on board when they did the emergency beam out. So, are we assuming that they started off with 430 with modifications to the D7 or why is that number important to crew that was found by Voyager?
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    vfpfyasko1 wrote: »
    Very true indeed, it would be a modified D7, it is the only way they would be abe to do so. However, when Voyager found them, they only had a crew compliment of 204 on board when they did the emergency beam out. So, are we assuming that they started off with 430 with modifications to the D7 or why is that number important to crew that was found by Voyager?

    204? so assuming equal numbers of males and females, thats 102 pairs your look around 3 kids per family unit, so that 102.. 306 kids plus the parents so 510 population on the first generation. potentially looking at 1200 at that rate the kdf would find the klingons.
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  • vfpfyasko1vfpfyasko1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    204? so assuming equal numbers of males and females, thats 102 pairs your look around 3 kids per family unit, so that 102.. 306 kids plus the parents so 510 population on the first generation. potentially looking at 1200 at that rate the kdf would find the klingons.

    Hmmm, interesting. Still wouldn't be that large in what a 30yr period? How much could they have accomplished in that short time, granted they did put them on a world out of the way of anything. We also dont know what Voyager left them with either, iam assuming replicators, shuttle, living habitats etc? One would think they would have some type of obligation per treaty?
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    astrometics reported the planet that the voyager crew would dump the klingons on was very habitable for life, the chances are the klingons would of built their own tools and started making their temporary huts and a fireplace at first, hunting alien fauna, finding drinking water. then start looking for ores to turn into stuff useful for building, give or take its likely a large town to begin with as there are so few at that point.
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  • vfpfyasko1vfpfyasko1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    astrometics reported the planet that the voyager crew would dump the klingons on was very habitable for life, the chances are the klingons would of built their own tools and started making their temporary huts and a fireplace at first, hunting alien fauna, finding drinking water. then start looking for ores to turn into stuff useful for building, give or take its likely a large town to begin with as there are so few at that point.

    Yeah, it is all speculation as we don't have much of anything other than that episode but the possibilities will be interesting.
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