Is there any way to set a forum poster on ignore? The OP's suggestions seem to be worse than LSD on destroying brain cells and setting them on ignore would do wonders for my mental stability.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The "Workingman" doesn't play MMO's ... he's out ... umm ... Working.
No it wouldn't. It would increase the prices of all the current dil sinks. (weapons, hangar pets, fleet projects, etc.) and it wouldn't do anyhing about the zen. (it would still take the same number of workdays to get the same amount of zen)
The only way to lower the price of zen is to... Reduce the price of zen.
I want to remove the limits currently placed on the workingman to enjoy the game without all his time being monopolized in the rat race for money.
I want to relieve his burdens.
The workingman calls out for these burdens to be lifted.
I have never heard of any working man that would call out for his burden to earn money to be lifted whether it is virtual or real. The working man works because he wants money to buy the good things in life. Reducing his ability to earn money goes against everything he believes in. So either you are completely ignorant about the working man or you have hatred towards the working man.
Normal DL Exchange behavior. Its player driven, so prices fluctuate like the Stock Market. New shiny gets announced, prices shoot up. Market gets flooded by say... Mirror Invasion, prices shoot up.
But until we get back to the dark days of 300+, don't call Doom until you've ground out a bundle on 300+/1 ratio.
Its just another one of his 'I want to rig the market for my own gains' thread. Lower Zen prices means he can buy more Items with RL Currency price tags with less dilithium investment. He doesnt actually think the prices are outrageously high. Theyre just too high for him to exploit.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,456Community Moderator
edited August 2014
Ok... seriously... decreasing supply does NOT lower prices.
I'll use a real world example I'm sure EVERYONE can relate to.
The dil ex will only go up as long as the supple and demand for dil is within a certain range relative to zen.
If X2 includes new holdings that are big dil sinks, it would be a catastrophe to be holding zen when it launches.
The dil/zen exchange is based on relative market of the option... you got that part at least right. However the problem now is the market overall is drying up, there people are not making that many exchanges from one to the other because the overall playerbase is concerned with what their purchased will mean in a couple months. As such, not many are actualyl converting anything right now. People with dil are accumulating more dil, people with zen stipends are accumulating more zen and the number of itms is decreasing. As there are still "some" purchases going on, those are confined to the lower values, as those drop off the uppervalues show, and the exchange creeps up. ANYTHING you do, short of fixing the buyer concern right now may in the short run cause a drop in the price.... but it will creep right back up.... becayse your ideas do not attack the problem.... merely a symptom.
Availability of new ships at X2 means a demand for Zen, as those with Zen will be the source of the necessary FM's, keys and Zen needed to buy ships. The Exchange price on FM's will skyrocket, keys wil skyrocket.... and even the dil exchange will itself skyrocket, no matter what you do the dil exchange price will be up in the ~500's come X2... and to be honest.... my estimate here is conservative.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,456Community Moderator
edited August 2014
Sorry. But you make a lousy Ferengi.
You're giving Ferengi a bad name.
I don't sell Zen. I buy Zen. And your plan will make buying Zen harder because the price would be higher for 1 Zen.
Please learn Economics.
*Divides by 0*
No seriously, why to try to did something that isnt broken. Its kinda based on real Stock exchange. Its business, and you as a Ferengi should understand it. But seems il be saying this grade alot "Ive been proven wrong too many time on this game"
Sorry. But you make a lousy Ferengi.
You're giving Ferengi a bad name.
I don't sell Zen. I buy Zen. And your plan will make buying Zen harder because the price would be higher for 1 Zen.
Please learn Economics.
*Divides by 0*
At this point in time his idea would do nothing but cause dil to plummet for a week and then rocket back up. The problem right now is people are not generally buying much of anything as they are concerned about the value of purchases right now with a pending level increase with X2.
It's basically like a main seawater line rupturing in a ship spilling 2000 gallons a second, and his plans are to head in and fix the problem with a piece of duct tape and a bread-tie to patch up a problem of one of the faucets leaking.. When what one needs to be doing is stopping the source of the problem (ie, alleviating the market concerns so people start engaging in sales again).
Get used to it. That's Crpytic new business strategy. Both in Champions Online and Neverwinter they inflated the f away the change currency of Zen.
In NW there even a backlog for Zen!
While in STO there won't be backlog because of Zen stipend, I suggest to brace yourself for 400+ Zen prices. It won't be pretty. (But! Crpytic has very good games, and very generous F2P matrix tho!)
Cryptic is only involved insofar as providing the market, putting a hard cap of 500x/1 zen, and providing a vehicle to buy zen with real money (C-store).
The rest is player driven.
You really cannot compare Neverwinter with STO or even Champions. Neverwinter's entire player economy (including the exchage) is fueled by astral diamonds (their dilithium equivalent). Gold is almost worthless in that game save to buy potions and profession kits from vendors. Also add in the amount of exchange exploits there were in the past, and you end up with a devalued currency. That is all player driven. More players want zen for astral diamonds than players are putting up on the market. It's simple supply and demand.
There is also the issue of gold selling sites which are rampant in Neverwinter.
STO has has like 4 currencies: Dilithium, EC, marks of various sorts, and latinum. Also add in the gold account zen stipend. This gives you a more fluid economy.
Yes because silencing someone you disagree with is always a good idea. :rolleyes:
Bear in mind that the same stick can be applied both ways.
@ OP
I suggested this in your other thread on the dilithium/zen market. Yes, reducing the refining cap is the most effective way to achieve you goal (in the short term). However to make it more effective you need to make an account wide cap, otherwise people will make more characters to farm dilithium (if that is what they are after). You really need to half the current inflow of dilithium to see any real effect. The problem though is that once zen drop beyond a certain point, fewer people will be willing to drop zen into the market because of lower rate of return. Once the zen supply drops, prices will rise. The market is basically self regulating and will balance itself based on supply and demand. You know this.
For the record, I think that dilithium prices are just fine and nothing needs to be done.
Sorry. But you make a lousy Ferengi.
You're giving Ferengi a bad name.
I don't sell Zen. I buy Zen. And your plan will make buying Zen harder because the price would be higher for 1 Zen.
Please learn Economics.
*Divides by 0*
For all we know, he wants the market to change in a way that would give him more monopoly.
This seems like a doom thread in disguise. Anyway, even I joined around when F2P started and remember it being much higher. It will just keep floating up since there is no new dil sink.
The R&D system was a ploy by the devs to act like a dil sink, but it didn't work as well as fleet holdings did.
No it wouldn't. It would increase the prices of all the current dil sinks. (weapons, hangar pets, fleet projects, etc.) and it wouldn't do anyhing about the zen. (it would still take the same number of workdays to get the same amount of zen)
The only way to lower the price of zen is to... Reduce the price of zen.
This is false. The cost of the sinks would remain unchanged. The change would be in the amount of dilithium available for a player to use on said sinks. The price of zen would probably drop a little in the short term, but would return thanks to supply and demand.
Decreasing supply would absolutely lower the price.
The problem is the price lowered in such a way stays the same relative to the size of now-shrunken coffers, thus doing nothing to ease the burden placed on the working man. In the meantime ingame items that cost Dilithium stay exactly the same price, despite the fact that people will have less Dilithium to spend on them. It seems like a lose/lose to me for everyone but those fabulously wealthy individuals that may already have a large amount of Dilithium stockpiled.
Those people will presumably hold onto their stockpiles and watch as their wealth relative to other players skyrockets.
For an extremely wealthy person to advocate such a course of action seems maliciously self serving, not that I'm accusing anybody here of such a thing.
Go play Cryptic's other titles like CO, where it's currently 375:1 (where it's a pain to get their version of Dilithium by doing dailies, and nobody complains), or NW, where it has been at 500:1 for MONTHS (the max) with MILLIONS of their Dilithium in the queue to sell.
Then again, in NW, Cryptic did a fantastic job breaking the economy outright with some of their changes. Also the entire economy is based around their Dil because you need it for everything including their auction house.
Again, you have no idea the repercussions you're asking for.
I disagree. I think that an 8000 dil limit per day becomes a big burden to people.
They can get say, 6000, but that extra 2k haunts them, because they know others are getting it, are getting ahead of them.
Its hard for any person to deny that it would be better for the dil grinder if he didnt have to pay so much dil for each zen. This workingman, as it is best to think of him, is the salt of the earth in this game.
Cash money millionaires pay him poverty wages when they buy zen to trade him at such a confiscatory rate. We need to think of him, of his toils.
As a side benefit, this could spur people to make more characters. Each additional character would be an additional 6000 refined dil per day.
Isn't it time to LESSEN THE BURDEN on those among us who are burdened the most?
I sure hope this is supposed to be a serious topic, and if so than do what I do, and do not pay the higher cost.
Wait till the market fluctuates back down, it is that simple.
Yes it make take some time, but it will happen like it always does.
The 3 biggest reasons this market goes up, and down.
1: Zen seller's no longer in need of large quantities of dilithium.
2: Dilithium farmer's using large sums of toons, floods market with dilithium, causing an influx on value.
3: New items/content/etc. on the way, so seller's of zen do as so many other's do, inflate the market price to benefit, remember the bit about EC's supply & demand, well same applies here.
Now granted there are technically more than 3 reasons, but these 3 are usually the biggest factors, and even though I myself do not enjoy increased price for zen, it isn't something I, nor you can really control, and like I mentioned when I see prices go up, I myself do not buy, instead I become a seller.
Comments
Is there anything that he does not want to limit?
His own genocide fantasies?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
You do not reduce the burden of the worker by lowering his possible salary. You do it by reducing prices.
I couldn't find one.
Hopefully this troll gets IP banned.
No it wouldn't. It would increase the prices of all the current dil sinks. (weapons, hangar pets, fleet projects, etc.) and it wouldn't do anyhing about the zen. (it would still take the same number of workdays to get the same amount of zen)
The only way to lower the price of zen is to... Reduce the price of zen.
Wow, never expected a day when ESD Zone chat actually had a benefit over something else.
I have never heard of any working man that would call out for his burden to earn money to be lifted whether it is virtual or real. The working man works because he wants money to buy the good things in life. Reducing his ability to earn money goes against everything he believes in. So either you are completely ignorant about the working man or you have hatred towards the working man.
Yes, your avatar is very distinctive, especially considering your lack of playing time.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/user/repetitiveepic/activity
First rule of trolling: use a throwaway account.
Its just another one of his 'I want to rig the market for my own gains' thread. Lower Zen prices means he can buy more Items with RL Currency price tags with less dilithium investment. He doesnt actually think the prices are outrageously high. Theyre just too high for him to exploit.
I'll use a real world example I'm sure EVERYONE can relate to.
Gas.
Does a Gas Shortage lower Gas prices?
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
The dil/zen exchange is based on relative market of the option... you got that part at least right. However the problem now is the market overall is drying up, there people are not making that many exchanges from one to the other because the overall playerbase is concerned with what their purchased will mean in a couple months. As such, not many are actualyl converting anything right now. People with dil are accumulating more dil, people with zen stipends are accumulating more zen and the number of itms is decreasing. As there are still "some" purchases going on, those are confined to the lower values, as those drop off the uppervalues show, and the exchange creeps up. ANYTHING you do, short of fixing the buyer concern right now may in the short run cause a drop in the price.... but it will creep right back up.... becayse your ideas do not attack the problem.... merely a symptom.
Availability of new ships at X2 means a demand for Zen, as those with Zen will be the source of the necessary FM's, keys and Zen needed to buy ships. The Exchange price on FM's will skyrocket, keys wil skyrocket.... and even the dil exchange will itself skyrocket, no matter what you do the dil exchange price will be up in the ~500's come X2... and to be honest.... my estimate here is conservative.
You're giving Ferengi a bad name.
I don't sell Zen. I buy Zen. And your plan will make buying Zen harder because the price would be higher for 1 Zen.
Please learn Economics.
*Divides by 0*
The playing time you are pointing out are counted only if you are logged into ARC first.
No seriously, why to try to did something that isnt broken. Its kinda based on real Stock exchange. Its business, and you as a Ferengi should understand it. But seems il be saying this grade alot "Ive been proven wrong too many time on this game"
Know the difference
It could save your life...
At this point in time his idea would do nothing but cause dil to plummet for a week and then rocket back up. The problem right now is people are not generally buying much of anything as they are concerned about the value of purchases right now with a pending level increase with X2.
It's basically like a main seawater line rupturing in a ship spilling 2000 gallons a second, and his plans are to head in and fix the problem with a piece of duct tape and a bread-tie to patch up a problem of one of the faucets leaking.. When what one needs to be doing is stopping the source of the problem (ie, alleviating the market concerns so people start engaging in sales again).
Cryptic is only involved insofar as providing the market, putting a hard cap of 500x/1 zen, and providing a vehicle to buy zen with real money (C-store).
The rest is player driven.
You really cannot compare Neverwinter with STO or even Champions. Neverwinter's entire player economy (including the exchage) is fueled by astral diamonds (their dilithium equivalent). Gold is almost worthless in that game save to buy potions and profession kits from vendors. Also add in the amount of exchange exploits there were in the past, and you end up with a devalued currency. That is all player driven. More players want zen for astral diamonds than players are putting up on the market. It's simple supply and demand.
There is also the issue of gold selling sites which are rampant in Neverwinter.
STO has has like 4 currencies: Dilithium, EC, marks of various sorts, and latinum. Also add in the gold account zen stipend. This gives you a more fluid economy.
I disagree. I loathe tribbles. They are a plague should be removed via exterminatus.
Yes because silencing someone you disagree with is always a good idea. :rolleyes:
Bear in mind that the same stick can be applied both ways.
@ OP
I suggested this in your other thread on the dilithium/zen market. Yes, reducing the refining cap is the most effective way to achieve you goal (in the short term). However to make it more effective you need to make an account wide cap, otherwise people will make more characters to farm dilithium (if that is what they are after). You really need to half the current inflow of dilithium to see any real effect. The problem though is that once zen drop beyond a certain point, fewer people will be willing to drop zen into the market because of lower rate of return. Once the zen supply drops, prices will rise. The market is basically self regulating and will balance itself based on supply and demand. You know this.
For the record, I think that dilithium prices are just fine and nothing needs to be done.
For all we know, he wants the market to change in a way that would give him more monopoly.
The R&D system was a ploy by the devs to act like a dil sink, but it didn't work as well as fleet holdings did.
The only thing he can do with how to fix is buying ZEN. He prooly has a huge stockpile od Đil and he just awaits the moment to convert it.
Know the difference
It could save your life...
This is false. The cost of the sinks would remain unchanged. The change would be in the amount of dilithium available for a player to use on said sinks. The price of zen would probably drop a little in the short term, but would return thanks to supply and demand.
The problem is the price lowered in such a way stays the same relative to the size of now-shrunken coffers, thus doing nothing to ease the burden placed on the working man. In the meantime ingame items that cost Dilithium stay exactly the same price, despite the fact that people will have less Dilithium to spend on them. It seems like a lose/lose to me for everyone but those fabulously wealthy individuals that may already have a large amount of Dilithium stockpiled.
Those people will presumably hold onto their stockpiles and watch as their wealth relative to other players skyrockets.
For an extremely wealthy person to advocate such a course of action seems maliciously self serving, not that I'm accusing anybody here of such a thing.
Go play Cryptic's other titles like CO, where it's currently 375:1 (where it's a pain to get their version of Dilithium by doing dailies, and nobody complains), or NW, where it has been at 500:1 for MONTHS (the max) with MILLIONS of their Dilithium in the queue to sell.
Then again, in NW, Cryptic did a fantastic job breaking the economy outright with some of their changes. Also the entire economy is based around their Dil because you need it for everything including their auction house.
Again, you have no idea the repercussions you're asking for.
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Probably.... the memory of a fish.
I sure hope this is supposed to be a serious topic, and if so than do what I do, and do not pay the higher cost.
Wait till the market fluctuates back down, it is that simple.
Yes it make take some time, but it will happen like it always does.
The 3 biggest reasons this market goes up, and down.
1: Zen seller's no longer in need of large quantities of dilithium.
2: Dilithium farmer's using large sums of toons, floods market with dilithium, causing an influx on value.
3: New items/content/etc. on the way, so seller's of zen do as so many other's do, inflate the market price to benefit, remember the bit about EC's supply & demand, well same applies here.
Now granted there are technically more than 3 reasons, but these 3 are usually the biggest factors, and even though I myself do not enjoy increased price for zen, it isn't something I, nor you can really control, and like I mentioned when I see prices go up, I myself do not buy, instead I become a seller.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
He posted the assets of 2 of his characters in another thread.