When Fleet ships first came out (Refit and Retrofit), one of the questions asked was whether any of the T1 ships (Miranda, Oberth, etcc) would get their versions. The answer from Dshathl back then was no, which is why fleet ships start at T2 and up (excluding the Constitution Refit/Exeter).
With that design in place, I won't get my hopes up on getting a T6 Miranda. Still, playing STO in only a T1 Miranda have been surprising challenging and amusing...
Any questions? If a T6 Connie Refit isn't happening, a T6 Miranda most certainly isn't.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The only reason the Miranda is on the front line is because it is cheap cannon fodder. I want new ships, it is the future of startrek, why is everyone wanting to run into the past?
Because some people find the Cryptic designed ships to be less than aesthetically pleasing. Is that so hard to grasp?
Sabers, Excelsiors, and Brels are all 'cannon fodder' ships in the shows that are available at tier 5 and as fleet-grade ships.
Heres a Question. Are all the New teir 6 ships gonna be of Cryptic original design. Not really haveing a Cannon look to any of them. Seems like they don't want to make any of the older federation ships teir 6. Just wondering.
Heres a Question. Are all the New teir 6 ships gonna be of Cryptic original design. Not really haveing a Cannon look to any of them. Seems like they don't want to make any of the older federation ships teir 6. Just wondering.
It appears so. Supposedly we will be able to upgrade lower tier ships to be 'competitive' (whatever that means) with tier 6, but they won't actually be T6, and it is unknown which ships will be able to be upgraded in this way.
When Fleet ships first came out (Refit and Retrofit), one of the questions asked was whether any of the T1 ships (Miranda, Oberth, etcc) would get their versions. The answer from Dshathl back then was no, which is why fleet ships start at T2 and up (excluding the Constitution Refit/Exeter).
With that design in place, I won't get my hopes up on getting a T6 Miranda. Still, playing STO in only a T1 Miranda have been surprising challenging and amusing...
trouble is there needs to be official confirmation first.
Correct. Unless I can find Dan's comment about no tier 1 ships as fleet ships (which I honestly don't recall) I have to wait for an official answer.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
i definitely support the idea of all the most seen canon ships being viable at endgame. my main interest would be a new t6 defiant, but i suspect they'll save that for a ds9 revamp or expansion. i would also buy a t6 nx and excelsior, and maybe akira and miranda.
yes all the canon ships are old, but my main ships will always be canon, and if they ever move up to a tier that doesn't include canon ships, it will mean leaving me behind.
It appears so. Supposedly we will be able to upgrade lower tier ships to be 'competitive' (whatever that means) with tier 6, but they won't actually be T6, and it is unknown which ships will be able to be upgraded in this way.
i'm guessing it means we'll get the spec upgrade, but no special abilities, and maybe not any extra weapon and/or console slots.
as for which ships, i'm gonna guess all c-store t5 ships, fleet ships, and some/all lobi/lockbox ships. i was thinking the top lobi/lockbox ships would be made full t6, but i think that hope may have already been crushed, not certain though. and i expect all free/event ships to be ineligible.
The Miranda-class is a museum piece. It doesn't even have the NX's excuse of "based on the old design, but using modern materials" - these are ships that have been in service for a long time. That's why you're made first officer on your cadet cruise; they're certainly not putting a midshipman in as first officer of, say, a Dakota-class!
In-game, they're not "Tier 6" for the same reason unrefitted (TOS-style) Constitution-class ships aren't - they're antiques. This is also why I wouldn't expect to see such a thing be approved by the devs.
What next, you want your great-grandfather's Model T refitted to be competitive on a modern race track?
The Miranda-class is a museum piece. It doesn't even have the NX's excuse of "based on the old design, but using modern materials" - these are ships that have been in service for a long time. That's why you're made first officer on your cadet cruise; they're certainly not putting a midshipman in as first officer of, say, a Dakota-class!
In-game, they're not "Tier 6" for the same reason unrefitted (TOS-style) Constitution-class ships aren't - they're antiques. This is also why I wouldn't expect to see such a thing be approved by the devs.
What next, you want your great-grandfather's Model T refitted to be competitive on a modern race track?
As has been mentioned many, many times on these forums, there are numerous ships as old, or older than the Miranda available at T5 or even as Fleet-Grade.
The Somraw and T'Varo are Enterprise-era ships available as Fleet-grade.
Xindi ships are available as Lockbox ships, and are also very potent.
These are all significantly older than a Miranda (even more when compared to the Centaur class and Shikahr class) yet are upgradeable to a much more significant degree. So IMO that argument doesn't hold any water.
In addition there is the D-7, Ktinga, Brel, and Excelsior, which are all contemporaries of the Miranda and are all available at Fleet grade.
And of course, the B'rel is a T1 ship available in fleet-grade, so the 'devs said that T1 can't be upgraded' argument mentioned earlier is rubbish as well.
As has been mentioned many, many times on these forums, there are numerous ships as old, or older than the Miranda available at T5 or even as Fleet-Grade.
The Somraw and T'Varo are Enterprise-era ships available as Fleet-grade.
Xindi ships are available as Lockbox ships, and are also very potent.
These are all significantly older than a Miranda (even more when compared to the Centaur class and Shikahr class) yet are upgradeable to a much more significant degree. So IMO that argument doesn't hold any water.
In addition there is the D-7, Ktinga, Brel, and Excelsior, which are all contemporaries of the Miranda and are all available at Fleet grade.
And of course, the B'rel is a T1 ship available in fleet-grade, so the 'devs said that T1 can't be upgraded' argument mentioned earlier is rubbish as well.
TL;DR: The root problem is the devs are never consistent on any damn thing.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I could possibly see a T6 ship roughly based on the layout of a Miranda, but the Miranda class itself? Nah. That would be like bringing a stock Model T to a drag race.
I could possibly see a T6 ship roughly based on the layout of a Miranda, but the Miranda class itself? Nah. That would be like bringing a stock Model T to a drag race.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The T'varo-class is in fact a 24th-century redesign, based on the 22nd-century T'liss, not dissimilar in concept from the redesign of the classic '66 Ford Mustang into the more modern version.
Klingon ship designs never seem to go on the scrap heap, possibly because Klingons are both long-lived and sentimental, weaknesses not shared by Starfleet design teams.
Other ships, such as the venerable D'kyr-class and those Andorian ships, are specifically mentioned as being of older design, but with modern materials and upgrades.
The Mirandas, however, are specifically said to be the originals, the ones that flitted about the Galaxy back in Kirk's day. They're only still in space because in vacuum there's nothing to degrade the hull. A T6 Miranda would be as silly, and as unlikely to be approved, as a T6 Constitution.
The T'varo-class is in fact a 24th-century redesign, based on the 22nd-century T'liss, not dissimilar in concept from the redesign of the classic '66 Ford Mustang into the more modern version.
Klingon ship designs never seem to go on the scrap heap, possibly because Klingons are both long-lived and sentimental, weaknesses not shared by Starfleet design teams.
Other ships, such as the venerable D'kyr-class and those Andorian ships, are specifically mentioned as being of older design, but with modern materials and upgrades.
The Mirandas, however, are specifically said to be the originals, the ones that flitted about the Galaxy back in Kirk's day. They're only still in space because in vacuum there's nothing to degrade the hull. A T6 Miranda would be as silly, and as unlikely to be approved, as a T6 Constitution.
Well, that's what we have refits for...which is what this thread is about. Folks aren't asking for all their Mirandas to be raised to T6, they are asking for refits. If the T'varo can be refitted/rebuilt to be fleet-grade, then there's no good reason that Miranda, cannot.
Your justification for the Andorian/D'Kyr classes beign T5 is exactly what people are asking for in a Miranda, the ability to have Mirandas refitted with "modern materials and upgrades'.
Well, that's what we have refits for...which is what this thread is about. Folks aren't asking for all their Mirandas to be raised to T6, they are asking for refits. If the T'varo can be refitted/rebuilt to be fleet-grade, then there's no good reason that Miranda, cannot.
Your justification for the Andorian/D'Kyr classes beign T5 is exactly what people are asking for in a Miranda, the ability to have Mirandas refitted with "modern materials and upgrades'.
indeed, and that's canon. watch any of the great battles in ds9 and you'll see lots of mirandas and excelsiors. these ships were already very old during the war, but they were in good condition due to the vacuum, and with a quick refit they are still useful in war time.
there's been an abundance of war in the sto timeline so it's logical that all available ships would again be refitted for war.
indeed, and that's canon. watch any of the great battles in ds9 and you'll see lots of mirandas and excelsiors. these ships were already very old during the war, but they were in good condition due to the vacuum, and with a quick refit they are still useful in war time.
If getting blown out of the sky left and right is what you consider "useful in war time". You will notice there wasn't a single GCS, a ship that entered full production only ten years earlier, that was shown destroyed or even seriously damaged other than the Odyssey.
The only reason they were being deployed on the front lines is because the Federation needed every ship they could stick a weapon on. They were losing hundreds of ships at a time.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
What cryptic could do is make thier own version on the miranda after all theres tons of variatio ns of the miranda class and would not be surprised to see a new variation of it in 2409-2410.
The miranda is one of the workhorses of the federation fleet which is why its remained in service in some variation for as long as it has.
so yes i think cryptic should make a miranda T-6 variant but i think they should make it a cryptic original design of a miranda variant to fit in with 2410.
Any questions? If a T6 Connie Refit isn't happening, a T6 Miranda most certainly isn't.
That was referring to Fleet Varients. Which as explained doesnt necessarily mean Endgame Ships. Theres nothing wrong with someone asking for a T6 variant. Otherwise how do you explain the Excelsior? It was built in the same timeframe as the Miranda.
If getting blown out of the sky left and right is what you consider "useful in war time". You will notice there wasn't a single GCS, a ship that entered full production only ten years earlier, that was shown destroyed or even seriously damaged other than the Odyssey.
The only reason they were being deployed on the front lines is because the Federation needed every ship they could stick a weapon on. They were losing hundreds of ships at a time.
Well...If they were losing hundreds of ships at a time...How was the Galaxys getting away with surviving so much? The Jem'Hadar handled the Odyssey with ease. And If I remember the big battle scenes corrently. Plenty of Galaxys took a hell of a beating during the fighting.
If getting blown out of the sky left and right is what you consider "useful in war time". You will notice there wasn't a single GCS, a ship that entered full production only ten years earlier, that was shown destroyed or even seriously damaged other than the Odyssey.
The only reason they were being deployed on the front lines is because the Federation needed every ship they could stick a weapon on. They were losing hundreds of ships at a time.
A few scenes in DS9 is in no way a good indicator of performance in the canon ST universe. The scope is far too limited to make that kind of determination.
For all we know, if the writers and producers ever deem it so, the Miranda could have given sterling workhorse service in the Dominion War.
Well...If they were losing hundreds of ships at a time...How was the Galaxys getting away with surviving so much? The Jem'Hadar handled the Odyssey with ease.
If by "handled the Odyssey with ease" you mean "beat mostly ineffectually on its hull for ten minutes straight before resorting to a ramming attack".
And If I remember the big battle scenes corrently. Plenty of Galaxys took a hell of a beating during the fighting.
Yeah, they took the beating. They took it on their shields and they handed it back with interest while taking no actual visible damage to speak of, even against those weapon platforms at First Chin'toka that were pulverizing Excelsiors and D'deridexes.
By contrast I vividly recall a shot of two Mirandas getting one-shotted by Galors during Operation Return, the same ship class to which the Enterprise-D once inflicted the starship equivalent of Superman finger-flicking somebody through a plate-glass window.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The Mirandas, however, are specifically said to be the originals, the ones that flitted about the Galaxy back in Kirk's day. They're only still in space because in vacuum there's nothing to degrade the hull. A T6 Miranda would be as silly, and as unlikely to be approved, as a T6 Constitution.
Which would be incorrect.
While registry numbers are not the best indication of a class's service life, a five digit registry number usually indicates that an individual ship was built sometime in the 24th Century. Those are not 23rd Century examples you see flying around in DS9.
There is a world of difference between a "class of vessel" and an "individual vessel". The class may be old, but new vessels would have been built with modern systems for that time period. The examples we saw on television were, in all likelyhood, early 24th Century examples that had been refitted over the years to keep pace with new developments. And that's not to say that there were not any newer examples of the Miranda. We just didn't see any indication of that.
Another thing to consider is that this game is a Star Trek theme park where fans can live out their Trek-related nerd fantasies. That's to say that the apparent age of an overall class of starship doesn't factor into the equation.
When most of the fleet consists of Excelsiors and Mirandas than it is clear that you see them blow up more often than the rest.
At the battle of Chin'toka you could see way more modern ships dying left right and center.
The OWP were shooting holes in a Galaxy class, a Vor'cha class was shot into two seperate pieces oh and the Akira class with more holes than swiss chees was also funny.
If getting blown out of the sky left and right is what you consider "useful in war time". You will notice there wasn't a single GCS, a ship that entered full production only ten years earlier, that was shown destroyed or even seriously damaged other than the Odyssey.
im sure some galaxy class ships were lost in the war, especially in the changing face of evil, though i dont specifically recall.
The only reason they were being deployed on the front lines is because the Federation needed every ship they could stick a weapon on. They were losing hundreds of ships at a time.
exactly, and as the sto time period is nothing but overlapping wars, many ships are needed, even the old ones. and that seems like more than enough justification to keep all our favorite ships competitive.
While registry numbers are not the best indication of a class's service life, a five digit registry number usually indicates that an individual ship was built sometime in the 24th Century. Those are not 23rd Century examples you see flying around in DS9.
Gameplay and story segregation. IIRC CBS restricted Cryptic to 90k and above for player ships so they'd have everything below that available for future projects.
Another thing to consider is that this game is a Star Trek theme park where fans can live out their Trek-related nerd fantasies. That's to say that the apparent age of an overall class of starship doesn't factor into the equation.
Some of us are still clinging to that apparently antiquated notion that things in this game should make actual frakking logical sense.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
*facepalm*
Any questions? If a T6 Connie Refit isn't happening, a T6 Miranda most certainly isn't.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Because some people find the Cryptic designed ships to be less than aesthetically pleasing. Is that so hard to grasp?
Sabers, Excelsiors, and Brels are all 'cannon fodder' ships in the shows that are available at tier 5 and as fleet-grade ships.
B'rel is a T1 ship with a T5 and fleet variant, so that's obviously not 100% applicable anymore.
It appears so. Supposedly we will be able to upgrade lower tier ships to be 'competitive' (whatever that means) with tier 6, but they won't actually be T6, and it is unknown which ships will be able to be upgraded in this way.
care to share what your facepalming about or are you just spamming for the hell of it?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Correct. Unless I can find Dan's comment about no tier 1 ships as fleet ships (which I honestly don't recall) I have to wait for an official answer.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
yes all the canon ships are old, but my main ships will always be canon, and if they ever move up to a tier that doesn't include canon ships, it will mean leaving me behind.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
i'm guessing it means we'll get the spec upgrade, but no special abilities, and maybe not any extra weapon and/or console slots.
as for which ships, i'm gonna guess all c-store t5 ships, fleet ships, and some/all lobi/lockbox ships. i was thinking the top lobi/lockbox ships would be made full t6, but i think that hope may have already been crushed, not certain though. and i expect all free/event ships to be ineligible.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
In-game, they're not "Tier 6" for the same reason unrefitted (TOS-style) Constitution-class ships aren't - they're antiques. This is also why I wouldn't expect to see such a thing be approved by the devs.
What next, you want your great-grandfather's Model T refitted to be competitive on a modern race track?
The Somraw and T'Varo are Enterprise-era ships available as Fleet-grade.
Xindi ships are available as Lockbox ships, and are also very potent.
These are all significantly older than a Miranda (even more when compared to the Centaur class and Shikahr class) yet are upgradeable to a much more significant degree. So IMO that argument doesn't hold any water.
In addition there is the D-7, Ktinga, Brel, and Excelsior, which are all contemporaries of the Miranda and are all available at Fleet grade.
And of course, the B'rel is a T1 ship available in fleet-grade, so the 'devs said that T1 can't be upgraded' argument mentioned earlier is rubbish as well.
TL;DR: The root problem is the devs are never consistent on any damn thing.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
T6 Carmen Miranda class, for the win!
Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Klingon ship designs never seem to go on the scrap heap, possibly because Klingons are both long-lived and sentimental, weaknesses not shared by Starfleet design teams.
Other ships, such as the venerable D'kyr-class and those Andorian ships, are specifically mentioned as being of older design, but with modern materials and upgrades.
The Mirandas, however, are specifically said to be the originals, the ones that flitted about the Galaxy back in Kirk's day. They're only still in space because in vacuum there's nothing to degrade the hull. A T6 Miranda would be as silly, and as unlikely to be approved, as a T6 Constitution.
Your justification for the Andorian/D'Kyr classes beign T5 is exactly what people are asking for in a Miranda, the ability to have Mirandas refitted with "modern materials and upgrades'.
indeed, and that's canon. watch any of the great battles in ds9 and you'll see lots of mirandas and excelsiors. these ships were already very old during the war, but they were in good condition due to the vacuum, and with a quick refit they are still useful in war time.
there's been an abundance of war in the sto timeline so it's logical that all available ships would again be refitted for war.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
If getting blown out of the sky left and right is what you consider "useful in war time". You will notice there wasn't a single GCS, a ship that entered full production only ten years earlier, that was shown destroyed or even seriously damaged other than the Odyssey.
The only reason they were being deployed on the front lines is because the Federation needed every ship they could stick a weapon on. They were losing hundreds of ships at a time.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The miranda is one of the workhorses of the federation fleet which is why its remained in service in some variation for as long as it has.
so yes i think cryptic should make a miranda T-6 variant but i think they should make it a cryptic original design of a miranda variant to fit in with 2410.
That was referring to Fleet Varients. Which as explained doesnt necessarily mean Endgame Ships. Theres nothing wrong with someone asking for a T6 variant. Otherwise how do you explain the Excelsior? It was built in the same timeframe as the Miranda.
Well...If they were losing hundreds of ships at a time...How was the Galaxys getting away with surviving so much? The Jem'Hadar handled the Odyssey with ease. And If I remember the big battle scenes corrently. Plenty of Galaxys took a hell of a beating during the fighting.
A few scenes in DS9 is in no way a good indicator of performance in the canon ST universe. The scope is far too limited to make that kind of determination.
For all we know, if the writers and producers ever deem it so, the Miranda could have given sterling workhorse service in the Dominion War.
Yeah, they took the beating. They took it on their shields and they handed it back with interest while taking no actual visible damage to speak of, even against those weapon platforms at First Chin'toka that were pulverizing Excelsiors and D'deridexes.
By contrast I vividly recall a shot of two Mirandas getting one-shotted by Galors during Operation Return, the same ship class to which the Enterprise-D once inflicted the starship equivalent of Superman finger-flicking somebody through a plate-glass window.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Which would be incorrect.
While registry numbers are not the best indication of a class's service life, a five digit registry number usually indicates that an individual ship was built sometime in the 24th Century. Those are not 23rd Century examples you see flying around in DS9.
There is a world of difference between a "class of vessel" and an "individual vessel". The class may be old, but new vessels would have been built with modern systems for that time period. The examples we saw on television were, in all likelyhood, early 24th Century examples that had been refitted over the years to keep pace with new developments. And that's not to say that there were not any newer examples of the Miranda. We just didn't see any indication of that.
Another thing to consider is that this game is a Star Trek theme park where fans can live out their Trek-related nerd fantasies. That's to say that the apparent age of an overall class of starship doesn't factor into the equation.
At the battle of Chin'toka you could see way more modern ships dying left right and center.
The OWP were shooting holes in a Galaxy class, a Vor'cha class was shot into two seperate pieces oh and the Akira class with more holes than swiss chees was also funny.
im sure some galaxy class ships were lost in the war, especially in the changing face of evil, though i dont specifically recall.
exactly, and as the sto time period is nothing but overlapping wars, many ships are needed, even the old ones. and that seems like more than enough justification to keep all our favorite ships competitive.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
Gameplay and story segregation. IIRC CBS restricted Cryptic to 90k and above for player ships so they'd have everything below that available for future projects.
Some of us are still clinging to that apparently antiquated notion that things in this game should make actual frakking logical sense.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/