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Opinions on Dual Heavy Cannons, Beam Banks, and Beam Arrays with a turn rate of 20...
jaguarskx
Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
I am just looking for opinions what kind of weapons you would use if you are flying a ship with a turn rate of 20? My recent max leveled KDF engineer flies a Negh'var with a turn rate of 20 and because of that I am mounting DHCs forward and Array aft.
It's not perfect, but I can make it work. As long as I can keep enemy ships in my forward 45 degree firing arc I can do plenty of damage. One limitation is that I cannot get too close to enemies because my turn rate is too low to keep up with ships flying to the right or left of me if I am around 2km -3km away or less. Also the broadsiding is very limited since only my aft arrays can do that.
Beam Banks certainly will work fine since they have a 90 degree firing arc, but the natural the damage is not quite as high compared to DHcs and I still cannot do broadsiding. I suppose one good thing about using beam banks is that using BO and FAW abilities will work with both fore and aft weapons.
Beam Arrays means I can broadside with fore and aft weapons. However, my forward damage is greatly reduced. So that option seems to a waste on a ship with a good turn rate.
A fourth option could be to replace the aft beam arrays with turrets. This will increase my forward damage and energy drain. However, turrets are the weakest of all the weapons so it seems they may simply be a waste of energy and aft / broadside damage is greatly reduced. I believe cannon abilities do benefit turrets, but I could be wrong.
So... what's the opinions of other fellow KDF captains?
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All equipment is "vendor trash" and I will start working on the rep system in August. Most definitely doing Omega and probably gonna do Undine as well. I want to differentiate this toon from my primary KDF tactical toon who completed Omega and is probably 6 days away from completing New Romulan.
It's not perfect, but I can make it work. As long as I can keep enemy ships in my forward 45 degree firing arc I can do plenty of damage. One limitation is that I cannot get too close to enemies because my turn rate is too low to keep up with ships flying to the right or left of me if I am around 2km -3km away or less. Also the broadsiding is very limited since only my aft arrays can do that.
Beam Banks certainly will work fine since they have a 90 degree firing arc, but the natural the damage is not quite as high compared to DHcs and I still cannot do broadsiding. I suppose one good thing about using beam banks is that using BO and FAW abilities will work with both fore and aft weapons.
Beam Arrays means I can broadside with fore and aft weapons. However, my forward damage is greatly reduced. So that option seems to a waste on a ship with a good turn rate.
A fourth option could be to replace the aft beam arrays with turrets. This will increase my forward damage and energy drain. However, turrets are the weakest of all the weapons so it seems they may simply be a waste of energy and aft / broadside damage is greatly reduced. I believe cannon abilities do benefit turrets, but I could be wrong.
So... what's the opinions of other fellow KDF captains?
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All equipment is "vendor trash" and I will start working on the rep system in August. Most definitely doing Omega and probably gonna do Undine as well. I want to differentiate this toon from my primary KDF tactical toon who completed Omega and is probably 6 days away from completing New Romulan.
Post edited by jaguarskx on
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Your problem is boff slots. You are severely limited. You prety much MUST run your setup with ENS and LT tac boffs.
If you run cannons your only cannon-buffing skill is in that LT skill slot. It doesn't allow you much. If you want to do "heavy firepower up front" you need to run DBBs and slot FAW1, TT1, and APB2. I would suggest running turrets in your aft slots and DBBs up front (plus photorp, if you like) and when you fire FAW it acts like a canon: scatter volley. It also works on one target a bit better than CSV will, I believe.
Why turrets in the rear? So that when you run FAW you're not targetting stuff you don't want to target. You can spam FAW on 360 degrees, but it's better to just run all Beam Arrays if you do that. Works perfectly fine and I run some ships that way. But for a "heavy forward damage" build go with DBBs and just enjoy the power slides when you make those turns :P
How about DBBs instead? You get the forward firepower, less drop off in damage at longer ranges than DHCs, and BFAW can be slotted at ensign tactical level instead of LT, opening up the option to use an attack pattern.
The choice is thus pretty clear.
When you're that slow, and closing is as much luck as it is skill, your best route is beam arrays.
Go Klingon Tanker, Go Klingon Tanker, Go Klingon Tanker Goo-oooo.
I should also say that cannon builds do work
How does 4/4 vs 4/3 vs 4/2 make a difference? Even if he slots KCB that does more than an aft turret. Even if he slots 360 AP beam that's more damage than a turret. Even if he slots 4 DBBs up front and 4 turrets aft, he is doing more damage than a ship with 4 DBBs up front and 3 turrets aft.
The weapons setup is good. It's just a matter of how you utilize it.
Engineering ships don't buff energy weapon damage via tac slots. They use engineering slots for that.
DEM says hi!
Cannons torps and mines can combine on this ship to make it very effective for any PVE task with a minimum of investment in gear and doffs.
If you're looking for top DPS or burst check out aux2bat and beam/FAW or cannon/DEM
Cheers.
The actual Turn Rate is 20.9; I will post a screenshot after I get home from work.
Basically, I have 6 points allocated to Impulse Engine skill, a RCS Acceleration with +35% and another for +32.5%. I am not exactly sure how the game calculates the turn rate, but based on my calculations it should be 21.8.
Negh'var Base Turn Rate = 9
Impulse Engine Skill of 6 = 9 * 75% = 6.75
RCS @ 35% = 9 * 35% = 3.15
RCS @ 32.5% = 9 * 32.5% = 2.93
Total = 21.8 (rounded down)
I know I am using 2 out of 4 engineering consoles for the RCS Accelerator, but for the moment I am placing a high priority on maneuverability. As far as Boff abilities they are as follows, but it needs some tweaking. Because of the relatively high hull strength of the Negh'var I opted not to use HE1 at least for now. The same applies to my Fed Engineering toon flying a Sovereign class heavy cruiser. But I do use HE1 for my KDF Tactical toon flying a Hegh'ta Heavy BoP and my Rom Science toon flying a Ha'nom Guardian Warbird.
Tac: TT1, CRF1
Eng: EPTA1,
Eng: EPTS1, EPTW2, ATS2
Eng: ET1, EPTW2, DEM2, AB2
Sci: ST1, ST2
I bought a Mirror Negh'var for a "cheap" price of 4.5 million ECs considering that most of the time it lists for around 7 - 8 million ECs. Still contemplating if I should unbox it. If I do use it then EPTA1 will be switched out for another copy of TT1 or perhaps TS1 if I drop the Hargh'peng torp for a different torpedo or a 4th DHC. Also considering dropping AB2 for DEM3.
I use EPTW instead of A2B because the extra power goes directly to weapons and there is an energy damage bonus as well.
So far, I have not slotted any Doffs yet.
You will need to load cannon cooldown doffs that reduce your CRF cooldown.
I might also suggest trying CRF but switching to CSV. CSV still works against a single target, but really shines with more than one. It allows you to eat away multiple targets at once, be it probes or drones in STFs or just general hordes.
As for HE, it isn't just for hull healing. It's for clearing bad stuff off your hull. Plasma's just part of it. It also clears borg shield neutralizers, yellow goop which slows you down, and a number of other effects. It also can do this on others in your team and is a great all-round tool.
By running at least 2 purple DCEs you can free up 2 extra ENG slots. These can be useful for adding other stuff, like extend shields, or aux 2 dampers (with a M/AM doff this is a nice one), or even just RSP or boarding shutles. You could even run AB and DEM together if you wish.
Just some food for your thought.
You don't use cannon modifiers on a cruiser like this. You use torpedoes. Spread or high yield. That's just the way that is.
If you want to boost your energy weapon damage beyond what you'll be getting from power management, you use DEM.
I have 3 other active toons (Fed Engineer, KDF Tactical, Romulan Science) anyway so I do not have much time to play my KDF Engineer. This is my "weekend warrior" when I have time to devote to this toon. Currently focusing on getting blue / purple Doffs for my 3 primary toons as well as finishing up the main story quest and do rep systems. If I get any extra blue Doffs my KDF Tac toon doesn't need then I'll transfer them to my weekend warrior.
I will continue to test out different load out which works best. I read in a different post that Cryptic increased the power drain of turrets for season 9.5, if so, then perhaps turrets will not be an option. Maybe I am trying too hard to make my Negh'var perform like a Hegh'ta... need to get at lease one very rare RCS Accelerator Mk XII console. Probably need to buy a Mirror Ki'Tang as well.
Comments about Doffs is useful for my primary toons so I appreciate that info.
personally id go 4 dhc fore 3/4 turrets aft maybe KcB in place of one turret
then make way to exchange and get two purple energy weapon doffs that reduce cannon weapon abilities by 50% then your one lt slot acts like 2 with either rapid fire or scatter volley and the beauty is it works on the turrets as well so you basically have a 8 weapons fireing forward. then use the command ability that reduces weapon power drain on top of being an engineer and your cannon will be pumping out some damage.
then a good assort of consoles after you have money fleet credits or what ever . and you wont do too bad.
But id say dump the neg and get a Tor'kaht asap.
is that true? post link please. truthfully I haven't played since this so called season released but that would surely seal the deal for me to stop playing. since they reduced the power drain on BO for all the feddy bear a2b beam spammers already.
I can't say if it is true or not. It was a player's statement in based on his own observations on weapon power levels before and after season 9.5 in a thread where someone was looking for a ship weapon options.
I am using the Negh'Var as a proxy for the Mogh to determine if the Mogh is worth considering for a cannon build.
The Mogh and Negh'Var both have a base turn rate of 9. Therefore, any gear and captain skills that affects turn rates should have the same results for both ships. The minor difference is the Mogh's inertial rating is 50 vs 25 for the Negh'Var which means the Negh'Var is more prone to "slide" when making quick turns compared to the Mogh.
Then again, I tend to fly more escort-ish, smaller, faster ships anyway so my opinion may not be worth much. The "Cruiser-ish" ships I do sometimes fly though (Dhelan - Rom, Heavy Escort Carrier - Fed, Mogh BC - Klingon), have no cannons, only beams and torpedos.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Yeah, I already got two RCS consoles that provides +32.5% and +35% and 6 points allocated to maneuvering thrusters to achieve my current turn rate 20.9. Installing expensive RCS consoles that provides +40% and respec'ing the maneuvering thrusters skill to 9 point will likely only boost the turn rate to an estimated 23.1; a difference of only 2.2. Not part of a fleet so fleet RCS consoles are not an option.
I generally prefer not to rely on Boff abilities for maneuvering. I am positive that if I devote all 4 engineering console slots to RCS +40% consoles along with the 9 points in maneuvering thrusters I can get roughly 29.5 to 30 turn rate, but that means sacrificing "tanking" consoles.
I suppose I still need to do eSTF with DHCs and only a 20.9 turn rate to develop tactics good enough to consider flying with DHCs full time for my Engineering KDF toon. I guess I am simply too used to flying BoPs with my Tactical KDF toon where a turn rate of 40 is considered average.