Well, that's why it's the bad guys who genetically enhance themselves.
People don't turn into bad guys by themselves. I humbly suggest that part of the reason so many augments turn bad is because Federation humanity treats them the way the fundie dickhead wing of American conservatism treats the bogeyman du jour. Ref: that @sshole JAG admiral in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume": "For every Julian Bashir, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings."
Also, the Federation is more than just humans. Unless you're going to suggest that every single planet has had the Eugenics Wars and reacted exactly the same way, I suggest that there's something else going on, such as flamingly bigoted humans using their influence to make sure a blatantly un-Federation-like law stays on the books.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
People don't turn into bad guys by themselves. I humbly suggest that part of the reason so many augments turn bad is because Federation humanity treats them the way the fundie dickhead wing of American conservatism treats the bogeyman du jour. Ref: that @sshole JAG admiral in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume": "For every Julian Bashir, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings."
Also, the Federation is more than just humans. Unless you're going to suggest that every single planet has had the Eugenics Wars and reacted exactly the same way, I suggest that there's something else going on, such as flamingly bigoted humans using their influence to make sure a blatantly un-Federation-like law stays on the books.
JJ's vision is the "Dark Knight" of Star Trek - the characters are gritty, rough, and the Universe is a far less friendly place than Roddenbery envisioned. I don't have an issue.
I'm not a 'purist', and like the borg, I simply adapt.
So JJ blew up Vulcan, ok, let's go with that... after all, we've got a Parallel Universe out there where Bjorans are worse than the Cardassian gestapo that occupied their world and Terrans are the scourge of space, so why not?
There are, as the Vulcans say, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations." so what's one more take on Star Trek?
Personally, I loved seeing a young Spock drop Kirk off on a frozen planet, and I really loved the new take on Mr. Scott... even if he does have all his fingers. And that orbital skydive onto a laser drilling platform - yeah, we'd have never seen anything like that in the traditional Star Trek, and I thought it was fantastic!
Best part: it made the franchise feel relevant and modern again.
Plus I'm normally a hater of pointless retcon, but at least they went for it and I think they nailed it (ref previous post about destroying Vulcan...bold move, guys, bold move).
=/\= ==================== = /\ =
Fleet Admiral Kenna
Producer/Host Priority One Podcast
Twitter @adastra1930 Per Aspera, Ad Astra
=/\= ==================== =/\=
Probably. Just another one of those little details that nobody ever quite thinks all the way through.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
the great thing about the Star Trek reboot is that we can finally forget about the other series
It's not a reboot.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
First, the JJTrek films aren't really a retcon or a reboot. That's the beauty of it. The events in the film created an alternate reality. The events of JJTrek have no impact on the "Prime" Trek universe.
Well....other than the destruction of Romulus and Remus, and likely the Romulan empire. Oh, and the removal of Spock Prime from the Prime line. Nope, no impact.
In serial fiction, to reboot means to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate its characters, timeline and backstory from the beginning.
This is what Star Trek '09 did, but it did so in such a way as to confirm the existence of the original timeline and story, rather than disregard it entirely.
As I mentioned upthread, I think the series' greatest crime is its failure to take full advantage of its status as a reboot, and tell some stories we haven't already seen.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The new films are the most interconnected in Trek Lore than any other film. We saw things come to canon such as George and Winona Kirk and Uhura's first name. Then it reference other Trek, like Enterprise, TWOK, DS9, and TOS. In the last film, despite individuals who cannot fathom that there is a first 2 hours of the film, that film was based on the Trek novel, Dreadnought!, one of the more better Diane Carey novels and one of the better Richard Arnold-era novels.
The Into Darkness actually addressed the fans' concerns about a fast tracked Kirk, but Khan dropped in on the party.
The two new films had two of the better Trek villians, Nero and Admiral Marcus. One went to extreme measures to overcome his grief, and the other one wanted to save the Federation by destroying it.
First, the JJTrek films aren't really a retcon or a reboot. That's the beauty of it. The events in the film created an alternate reality. The events of JJTrek have no impact on the "Prime" Trek universe.
This. A thousand times this. For those that dislike JJTrek... absolutely nothing has changed for you. S'all good. Keep on Trekkin' on with Prime.
Thoroughly enjoy the JJ time tree in equal measure to the Original Universe. Never been shy about that fact. Also never have been able to adequately reconcile the vitriol. Just don't understand it. Best I can figure its akin to folk's favorite Indy band getting a mainstream hit. Seems less clique cool.
Yep, JJTrek was weighted heavily with action. There's another ST series similar... filmed back in the 60's. William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, DeForrest Kelley. Check it out if you haven't seen it.
Positive "Things": Cast. Pegg as Scotty is brilliant. Also; Rachel Nichols as an Orion. Albeit... too briefly. I'd raptly watch a three hour toothpaste commercial if she was on-screen.
People don't turn into bad guys by themselves. I humbly suggest that part of the reason so many augments turn bad is because Federation humanity treats them the way the fundie dickhead wing of American conservatism treats the bogeyman du jour. Ref: that @sshole JAG admiral in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume": "For every Julian Bashir, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings."
Also, the Federation is more than just humans. Unless you're going to suggest that every single planet has had the Eugenics Wars and reacted exactly the same way, I suggest that there's something else going on, such as flamingly bigoted humans using their influence to make sure a blatantly un-Federation-like law stays on the books.
Actually in the star trek universe bad was link to genetic structure of the augments. star trek enterprise Soong actually isolated the genes responsible in an episode of Enterprise . They were literally genetically engineer to be evil by mistake, I'm sure the scientists who created Khan and co treated them like lab rats didn't help either and only reinforce there genetic make-up but even when they were bought up to use violence as a last resort still resulted in some of them turning evil.
It pretty clear the humans are the primary king maker on the Federation council. An we have two other examples of genetically engineering turn out wrong, the Romulans efforts led to the Remen, who are not exactly known for their pacifist ways, and the Klingon attempts at it almost led to the destruction of there race in enterprise. Federation allows limited genetic engineering to correct genetic problems as long as they don't enhance the person abilities and they don't join starfleet.
Actually in the star trek universe bad was link to genetic structure of the augments. star trek enterprise Soong actually isolated the genes responsible in an episode of Enterprise . They were literally genetically engineer to be evil by mistake, I'm sure the scientists who created Khan and co treated them like lab rats didn't help either and only reinforce there genetic make-up but even when they were bought up to use violence as a last resort still resulted in some of them turning evil.
It pretty clear the humans are the primary king maker on the Federation council. An we have two other examples of genetically engineering turn out wrong, the Romulans efforts led to the Remen, who are not exactly known for their pacifist ways, and the Klingon attempts at it almost led to the destruction of there race in enterprise. Federation allows limited genetic engineering to correct genetic problems as long as they don't enhance the person abilities and they don't join starfleet.
Well....other than the destruction of Romulus and Remus, and likely the Romulan empire. Oh, and the removal of Spock Prime from the Prime line. Nope, no impact.
Funny how people seem to constantly gloss this over....the Romulans were one of the 'big three' (or four, if one counted the Cardassians) powers of the alpha quadrant, and with the Cardassians, Borg, and Dominion defeated, one of the last real antagonists of note in Star Trek.
As for positive...It has a large....budget? I'm of the opinion that the 2009 movie is basically Nemesis on a larger budget.
Kirk's mind-meld with Prime Spock (based on what we saw with Spock and Picard, we know nuKirk would have picked up an echo of his Prime-Verse self), which clearly shook him.
Wow! I been thinking about that myself !
Prime Spock mind melded with Prime Kirk and Picard, then with JJ Kirk.
Did JJ Kirk walk away with a piece of them?
How would JJ Kirk handle seeing the man he was in another timeline ? Or getting a glimpse of another captain (Picard), from an alternate future?
It would make a good story for the next movie, or at least a really good novel.
Actually in the star trek universe bad was link to genetic structure of the augments. star trek enterprise Soong actually isolated the genes responsible in an episode of Enterprise . They were literally genetically engineer to be evil by mistake, I'm sure the scientists who created Khan and co treated them like lab rats didn't help either and only reinforce there genetic make-up but even when they were bought up to use violence as a last resort still resulted in some of them turning evil.
Have you ever heard of the MAOA gene? It's sometimes called the "warrior gene", and in humans it correlates to aggression, antisocial behavior, and generalized TRIBBLE$holishness.
But as correctly pointed out in an episode of CSI a few years ago, not everybody who has the gene becomes an TRIBBLE$hole. It has just as much to do with the person's own willpower and the environment in which they were raised. Your genes contribute to the person you become, but they do not tell the whole story.
Ergo, you can't say that all genetic augments are evil any more than you can say that all Cardassians are Space TRIBBLE (the season 4 revolt against the Central Command disproves that), that all Klingons are drunken dickheads who claim it's honorable to attack the innocent (Worf and Martok disprove that), or that all Vulcans are stuck-up jerks (Spock). To put it in real-world terms, it's like saying that all Baptists act like the Westboro Baptist Church, or all Germans are TRIBBLE, or that Glenn Beck's onscreen persona is representative of all Republicans (this coming from a left-leaning Democrat BTW). Every barrel has its bad apples, but it's going to have good apples as well: Julian Bashir is a genetic augment, and he's one of the most morally upstanding individuals in the entire franchise.
Ergo, like most of Star Trek: Enterprise, that explanation is complete garbage and the humans are being bigoted, plain and simple.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Prime Spock mind melded with Prime Kirk and Picard, then with JJ Kirk.
Did JJ Kirk walk away with a piece of them?
How would JJ Kirk handle seeing the man he was in another timeline ? Or getting a glimpse of another captain (Picard), from an alternate future?
It would make a good story for the next movie, or at least a really good novel.
Would be interesting to see him repeat random lines spoken by the other captains.
Now for something positive. Casting is great, the shaking of the camera was a nice touch, futuristic bridge was cool but got annoying for the rest of the ship and the fact that a weapon can be made in the form of a ring is a scary but interesting way of showing how easily you can kill a man.
Have you ever heard of the MAOA gene? It's sometimes called the "warrior gene", and in humans it correlates to aggression, antisocial behavior, and generalized TRIBBLE$holishness.
But as correctly pointed out in an episode of CSI a few years ago, not everybody who has the gene becomes an TRIBBLE$hole. It has just as much to do with the person's own willpower and the environment in which they were raised. Your genes contribute to the person you become, but they do not tell the whole story.
Ergo, you can't say that all genetic augments are evil any more than you can say that all Cardassians are Space TRIBBLE (the season 4 revolt against the Central Command disproves that), that all Klingons are drunken dickheads who claim it's honorable to attack the innocent (Worf and Martok disprove that), or that all Vulcans are stuck-up jerks (Spock). To put it in real-world terms, it's like saying that all Baptists act like the Westboro Baptist Church, or all Germans are TRIBBLE, or that Glenn Beck's onscreen persona is representative of all Republicans (this coming from a left-leaning Democrat BTW). Every barrel has its bad apples, but it's going to have good apples as well: Julian Bashir is a genetic augment, and he's one of the most morally upstanding individuals in the entire franchise.
Ergo, like most of Star Trek: Enterprise, that explanation is complete garbage and the humans are being bigoted, plain and simple.
As a counterpoint, not all of the Augments in Enterprise were evil.
As a counterpoint, not all of the Augments in Enterprise were evil.
Not all Augments in TOS were evil, either. Khan even had his underlings trying to plead with him in WoK that they had the Genesis device and they should just take it and run. They didn't all agree with Khan's self-destructive quest for revenge, much like Starbuck and Ahab.
The whole 'Augments are evil' is really just cop-out, because even Gene Roddenberry acknowledged there was no logical reason why the original crew of the Enterprise wouldn't all be genetically modified. 'Man is something to be overcome' is a philosophy shared by the Federation and the Augments. The Eugenics War was really just a plot written in to somehow explain why people in the 23rd Century weren't genetically augmented, despite all evidence that points to the fact it should have been the norm.
On its own, the 'No Augmentation Allowed' rule is flimsy and based entirely on a knee-jerk reaction to something done in the 1990's, that by 'modern' Starfleet standards, should have been abolished much like other legislation that outlived its usefulness.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
People don't turn into bad guys by themselves. I humbly suggest that part of the reason so many augments turn bad is because Federation humanity treats them the way the fundie dickhead wing of American conservatism treats the bogeyman du jour. Ref: that @sshole JAG admiral in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume": "For every Julian Bashir, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings."
Also, the Federation is more than just humans. Unless you're going to suggest that every single planet has had the Eugenics Wars and reacted exactly the same way, I suggest that there's something else going on, such as flamingly bigoted humans using their influence to make sure a blatantly un-Federation-like law stays on the books.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
***gets a cup of coffee
Huge potential, if they ever decide to tell original stories rather than rehash what's already been done.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm not a 'purist', and like the borg, I simply adapt.
So JJ blew up Vulcan, ok, let's go with that... after all, we've got a Parallel Universe out there where Bjorans are worse than the Cardassian gestapo that occupied their world and Terrans are the scourge of space, so why not?
There are, as the Vulcans say, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations." so what's one more take on Star Trek?
Personally, I loved seeing a young Spock drop Kirk off on a frozen planet, and I really loved the new take on Mr. Scott... even if he does have all his fingers. And that orbital skydive onto a laser drilling platform - yeah, we'd have never seen anything like that in the traditional Star Trek, and I thought it was fantastic!
Plus I'm normally a hater of pointless retcon, but at least they went for it and I think they nailed it (ref previous post about destroying Vulcan...bold move, guys, bold move).
Fleet Admiral Kenna
Producer/Host Priority One Podcast
Twitter @adastra1930
Per Aspera, Ad Astra
=/\= ==================== =/\=
Probably. Just another one of those little details that nobody ever quite thinks all the way through.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
It's not a reboot.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Well....other than the destruction of Romulus and Remus, and likely the Romulan empire. Oh, and the removal of Spock Prime from the Prime line. Nope, no impact.
I would call it a "soft reboot."
This is what Star Trek '09 did, but it did so in such a way as to confirm the existence of the original timeline and story, rather than disregard it entirely.
As I mentioned upthread, I think the series' greatest crime is its failure to take full advantage of its status as a reboot, and tell some stories we haven't already seen.
Okay, it'll come to me. I know, it will end some day.
The Into Darkness actually addressed the fans' concerns about a fast tracked Kirk, but Khan dropped in on the party.
The two new films had two of the better Trek villians, Nero and Admiral Marcus. One went to extreme measures to overcome his grief, and the other one wanted to save the Federation by destroying it.
This. A thousand times this. For those that dislike JJTrek... absolutely nothing has changed for you. S'all good. Keep on Trekkin' on with Prime.
Thoroughly enjoy the JJ time tree in equal measure to the Original Universe. Never been shy about that fact. Also never have been able to adequately reconcile the vitriol. Just don't understand it. Best I can figure its akin to folk's favorite Indy band getting a mainstream hit. Seems less clique cool.
Yep, JJTrek was weighted heavily with action. There's another ST series similar... filmed back in the 60's. William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, DeForrest Kelley. Check it out if you haven't seen it.
Positive "Things": Cast. Pegg as Scotty is brilliant. Also; Rachel Nichols as an Orion. Albeit... too briefly. I'd raptly watch a three hour toothpaste commercial if she was on-screen.
Actually in the star trek universe bad was link to genetic structure of the augments. star trek enterprise Soong actually isolated the genes responsible in an episode of Enterprise . They were literally genetically engineer to be evil by mistake, I'm sure the scientists who created Khan and co treated them like lab rats didn't help either and only reinforce there genetic make-up but even when they were bought up to use violence as a last resort still resulted in some of them turning evil.
It pretty clear the humans are the primary king maker on the Federation council. An we have two other examples of genetically engineering turn out wrong, the Romulans efforts led to the Remen, who are not exactly known for their pacifist ways, and the Klingon attempts at it almost led to the destruction of there race in enterprise. Federation allows limited genetic engineering to correct genetic problems as long as they don't enhance the person abilities and they don't join starfleet.
My character Tsin'xing
As for positive...It has a large....budget? I'm of the opinion that the 2009 movie is basically Nemesis on a larger budget.
Wow! I been thinking about that myself !
Prime Spock mind melded with Prime Kirk and Picard, then with JJ Kirk.
Did JJ Kirk walk away with a piece of them?
How would JJ Kirk handle seeing the man he was in another timeline ? Or getting a glimpse of another captain (Picard), from an alternate future?
It would make a good story for the next movie, or at least a really good novel.
But as correctly pointed out in an episode of CSI a few years ago, not everybody who has the gene becomes an TRIBBLE$hole. It has just as much to do with the person's own willpower and the environment in which they were raised. Your genes contribute to the person you become, but they do not tell the whole story.
Ergo, you can't say that all genetic augments are evil any more than you can say that all Cardassians are Space TRIBBLE (the season 4 revolt against the Central Command disproves that), that all Klingons are drunken dickheads who claim it's honorable to attack the innocent (Worf and Martok disprove that), or that all Vulcans are stuck-up jerks (Spock). To put it in real-world terms, it's like saying that all Baptists act like the Westboro Baptist Church, or all Germans are TRIBBLE, or that Glenn Beck's onscreen persona is representative of all Republicans (this coming from a left-leaning Democrat BTW). Every barrel has its bad apples, but it's going to have good apples as well: Julian Bashir is a genetic augment, and he's one of the most morally upstanding individuals in the entire franchise.
Ergo, like most of Star Trek: Enterprise, that explanation is complete garbage and the humans are being bigoted, plain and simple.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Would be interesting to see him repeat random lines spoken by the other captains.
Now for something positive. Casting is great, the shaking of the camera was a nice touch, futuristic bridge was cool but got annoying for the rest of the ship and the fact that a weapon can be made in the form of a ring is a scary but interesting way of showing how easily you can kill a man.
My character Tsin'xing
Not all Augments in TOS were evil, either. Khan even had his underlings trying to plead with him in WoK that they had the Genesis device and they should just take it and run. They didn't all agree with Khan's self-destructive quest for revenge, much like Starbuck and Ahab.
The whole 'Augments are evil' is really just cop-out, because even Gene Roddenberry acknowledged there was no logical reason why the original crew of the Enterprise wouldn't all be genetically modified. 'Man is something to be overcome' is a philosophy shared by the Federation and the Augments. The Eugenics War was really just a plot written in to somehow explain why people in the 23rd Century weren't genetically augmented, despite all evidence that points to the fact it should have been the norm.
On its own, the 'No Augmentation Allowed' rule is flimsy and based entirely on a knee-jerk reaction to something done in the 1990's, that by 'modern' Starfleet standards, should have been abolished much like other legislation that outlived its usefulness.
Other than that, there's nothing to say. I'd have included Karl Urban and Simon Pegg, but they're criminally underused.