With BO present as a single-target beam power, we can hypothetically refocus Fire at Will to be more about Area of Effect and less rewarding if used on only a single target.
In your example, your 80k crit will actually be lower now (by 25% in base damage). But your average Beam Overload damage will be higher over time. Lower maximum burst, higher sustained DPS.
You guys are killing PvP.
I mean its not that PvP has had ANY love in years. But it is now dominated by vapers. There is no point flying a ship with less than 60K hull or someone will torp/Proton Barrage vape you.
At this rate you may as well just take PvP out so those of us that do love STO's pvp can move onto other games.
100% crit rate is going to be the end of anything but cloaked ships. Using Proton Barrage and Beam Overload.
Seeing as its obvious that the devs don't actually play their own game. Let me show you some simple maths.
A fed/Kling can min max a crit rate of 24.9% without buffs. Around 30% with buffs. A romulan can get that even higher.
But that requires a heap of consoles meaning that crit severity is around 70-120% depending on buffs.
Now that BO can crit all the time. People don't need the crit chance consoles/traits anymore. Now we have a 100% crit chance with anywhere from 100-300% crit severity.
The 25% damage reduction is going to do a sweet F&A. We will now be getting hit by Beam Overloads doing close to 100,000 damage, cause damage stacking isn't diminishing, its just stacked off base damage.
But resistance does. So we soft cap at about 68%. But thats for a dedi-tank. Commonly Resists are around 35-40%, that means that we are going to need to have a hull of close to 75,000+ just to not get insta-popped.
If you want to get away from the 1 shot vapes. And make the game more 'Trek'. There is 3 things you need to do.
1) Balance the classes, Sci is fine, Tac is a little OP and Engi needs some love.
2) Fix the over cap on Proton Barrage.
3) Give us more options on how we take targets down. Allow the battles of attrition where its skill baesed not 'Skills' based. This is Star Trek not Star Wars.
You guys need to have a look at how Starfleet Command 3 and Bridge Commander did thier space battles. There is a reason these are still voted the best Star Trek games. Lets make STO one of them.
BO will remain a substantial burst damage tool, but as much as possible I want to move combat out of the "one-shot" territory and out of the "infinite slugfest" territory, and towards a happy medium where people die under focused fire but have a chance to react and outplay.
then...maybe you could see about reducing the massive base damage on elite STF borg plasma torpedoes that end up leading to even more massive spikes?
and i don't mean the HY variants that can at least be shot down...i mean the regular ones that you can't shoot down or even outrun because a hit or miss is calculated right at launch
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
OK. People blowing other people up in one shot doesn't make me happy. So we can be even. :P
BO will remain a substantial burst damage tool, but as much as possible I want to move combat out of the "one-shot" territory and out of the "infinite slugfest" territory, and towards a happy medium where people die under focused fire but have a chance to react and outplay.
This applies to PvE as well - NPCs one-shotting players isn't fun, and players one-shotting NPCs isn't really fun either, long-term.
Agreed.. I hate getting one-shotted by Borg, hate it even more in PvP, which is why I quit doing PvP at all. As for raw DPS, I'm doing really great if I hit 8k DPS on any given mission and that's with fleet weapons and consoles. This change may make me look into getting BO3 again.
No such thing exist, the closest thing I can find is the Subatomic Disruptor of the Aeon Shuttle deflector or the Javelin.
The only lance power I know are that usable by the player are the mentioned Timeshuttle one, Galaxy-X lance (both types), the Vesta focused phaser and the Guramba Javelin.
you forgot the mogai's ionized beam, and the ar'kif's focused plasma beam could be considered a lance weapon as well
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Could you also look at some of the ground NPCs that tend to one-shot people? Tholian EV Suit Commanders with their AoE Radiation Beam, Breen Captains with Cryo guns, pretty much anything with Lunge (esp Voth Special Ops).
It's getting to the point where I don't leave my ship without at least two copies of Weapon Malfunction.
In the case you presented in your post, 30% of the time your fully buffed ambush BO crit would one-shot a player. Now, every single time a player uses Beam Overload, they will deal substantial damage without reducing their future DPS - but they will do *less* spike damage in an optimal case. This change both reduces randomness of outcome (reliance on crit chance) and brings in the possible variance of spike damage substantially.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
I mean its not that PvP has had ANY love in years. But it is now dominated by vapers. There is no point flying a ship with less than 60K hull or someone will torp/Proton Barrage vape you.
At this rate you may as well just take PvP out so those of us that do love STO's pvp can move onto other games.
100% crit rate is going to be the end of anything but cloaked ships. Using Proton Barrage and Beam Overload.
Seeing as its obvious that the devs don't actually play their own game. Let me show you some simple maths.
A fed/Kling can min max a crit rate of 24.9% without buffs. Around 30% with buffs. A romulan can get that even higher.
But that requires a heap of consoles meaning that crit severity is around 70-120% depending on buffs.
Now that BO can crit all the time. People don't need the crit chance consoles/traits anymore. Now we have a 100% crit chance with anywhere from 100-300% crit severity.
The 25% damage reduction is going to do a sweet F&A. We will now be getting hit by Beam Overloads doing close to 100,000 damage, cause damage stacking isn't diminishing, its just stacked off base damage.
But resistance does. So we soft cap at about 68%. But thats for a dedi-tank. Commonly Resists are around 35-40%, that means that we are going to need to have a hull of close to 75,000+ just to not get insta-popped.
You guys need a serious head examination.
I was trying to be more polite about it, but I kinda agree here. Granted, we won't see how the nerf will apply ingame until the HoBOs start running their gank squad in Ker'rat. So it might make BO3 just a limp tickle. Or people will annihilate people with Shockwave/proton/BO3 combos out of nowhere. But I can kinda see why the guy wants to balance it away from one-hits since the last times I was in Ker'rat, all I did was fly in circles with my friends and wait for the spikers to come off their cooldowns and try again. We'd try to survive, then frantically try to kill the offending BoP or Warbird before it popped EPTE and zipped off at 200 impulse. It makes for dull PVP. In Ker'rat, anyway. Queues are different.
Buuuuut if it's not a one-hit, then a lot of people I know will drop Vape builds completely and go back to the spacebar mashing fun-fest that is A2B. So maybe we should save the panic attack till we see how bad/good the nerf/buff is. I dunno.
PvPer, RPer, novice writer, RP/PvP/PvE tutor, purveyor of fine snark, and KDF mourner. R.I.P. Ker'rat.
then...maybe you could see about reducing the massive base damage on elite STF borg plasma torpedoes that end up leading to even more massive spikes?
and i don't mean the HY variants that can at least be shot down...i mean the regular ones that you can't shoot down or even outrun because a hit or miss is calculated right at launch
Yes, absolutely. We've made multiple passes at tweaking eSTF Borg difficulty over the years, and they still burst higher than we wish they did, due to at least one hard-to-reproduce bug and several design flaws. If you look at elite content in any of the critter groups we've made over the last 2 years, you'll find that one-shots only occur if they're both highly telegraphed and avoidable. For example, the Undine Planet Killer attack will likely one-shot you - but given how long it takes to spin up, you have ample time to hit Evasive Maneuvers, EPTS, etc.
I'll look at Borg again soon.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
with all this power creep, can i get a buff to Dam Res.... oh why your at it, can my SS also have a 1sec placate to force them to target some one else.
oh yeah I would like my tracker beam to hold, nerf the PH immune and ApO immune.
and maybe a GW that always Crit, and please buff the GW dam by 150%
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
OK. People blowing other people up in one shot doesn't make me happy. So we can be even. :P
Hoo.. I see.. that is why Motivation in ground has 100% crit chance and transform G-PVP in a one shoting fest and matchs that ends even before they start. Seems logic..
Hell, there are reports of ppl nearly (not fully, but close) oneshoting STFs Bosses now... so, I dont get it..
In the case you presented in your post, 30% of the time your fully buffed ambush BO crit would one-shot a player. Now, every single time a player uses Beam Overload, they will deal substantial damage without reducing their future DPS - but they will do *less* spike damage in an optimal case. This change both reduces randomness of outcome (reliance on crit chance) and brings in the possible variance of spike damage substantially.
But the numbers don't roll this way. What you have done now, is allow for a 60,000+ damage hit. Followed by fully powered cannons.
If there was a balance between defense and offense sure. But it is possible for tac's to over buff to such an extent that even dedi-tanks can be vaped. When a single ship can kill a tank, there is something horribly wrong.
And as for sustained DPS, cruisers and the like can already do that. People mix things like the Tetryon Glider in. Or use power drain. Or they make Exotic damage builds. Sustained DPS is there. Spike damage is so far over-capped.
It's simple, reduce tac spike capability. That's it. That's all you need to do.
And the only toon I really play is a tac. I would love to have more options on how I take someone down. I love the idea of killing, or being killed and going... Now how did you do that. Let us think outside the box.
OK. People blowing other people up in one shot doesn't make me happy. So we can be even. :P
BO will remain a substantial burst damage tool, but as much as possible I want to move combat out of the "one-shot" territory and out of the "infinite slugfest" territory, and towards a happy medium where people die under focused fire but have a chance to react and outplay.
This applies to PvE as well - NPCs one-shotting players isn't fun, and players one-shotting NPCs isn't really fun either, long-term.
Between this change and the now "the cool kids use it" combination of subspace jump followed by a really nasty proton barrage, that is exactly what is going on in PvP. That or the uncloak and alpha strike.
I'd love for you to go incognito into Ker'rat when certain players are in there and see how nasty those one shot kills are. As it is now, you go form 100% hull and full shields to blown to pieces in less than 3 seconds.
Adjudicator - Since you're reading this thread, any updates on why there don't seem to be UR deflectors, shields, or engines in R&D and the new mods are missing from any crafted VR ones? I've only seen one new deflector mod and it was in an UR Aegis deflector crafted the first days R&D came out that someone put in the Exchange.
There are already people in Tribble testing this on OPvP chat.
All claim at least a 50% boost to their vape. And that's on toons with no rep/consoles.
I have a proposal. get the dev's to go undercover and fly around in ker'rat for a few weeks. Stick around to a Hobo camp.
Then you will see how badly you are rogering PvP.
Awesome, just awesome. Only thing that would make this day worse is a patch note changing the R&D UR RCS consoles from how they work now. Lets give cruisers and escorts more DPS power creep.
This funny. When you say it hawk, it makes sense but that's not what's going to happen. People testing are already showing 80k crits on tribble.
Spaces' turn for 100% crit chance game breaking nonsense like what motivation did to ground. Just don't get these changes. At least it got to go to tribble instead of being just sprung from a lock box with no testing.
Awesome, just awesome. Only thing that would make this day worse is a patch note changing the R&D UR RCS consoles from how they work now. Lets give cruisers and escorts more DPS power creep.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 51457 (73247) Antiproton Damage(Critical)
This is happening consistently. No chance, just all the time. On a toon that has no rep, and only 1 crit boosting console.
This funny. When you say it hawk, it makes sense but that's not what's going to happen. People testing are already showing 80k crits on tribble.
Spaces' turn for 100% crit chance game breaking nonsense like what motivation did to ground. Just don't get these changes. At least it got to go to tribble instead of being just sprung from a lock box with no testing.
I agree, fingers crossed it will get tested and fixed. If it makes it to Holodeck it will be the death of PvP as we know it.
More proof of how bad this is:
[Combat (Self)] T'arget 1 deals 76249 (66797) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 42113 (47986) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to.
This is all Tribble testing going on right now. The vapers are having a party right now.
Comments
This needs doing, please do this.
You guys are killing PvP.
I mean its not that PvP has had ANY love in years. But it is now dominated by vapers. There is no point flying a ship with less than 60K hull or someone will torp/Proton Barrage vape you.
At this rate you may as well just take PvP out so those of us that do love STO's pvp can move onto other games.
100% crit rate is going to be the end of anything but cloaked ships. Using Proton Barrage and Beam Overload.
Seeing as its obvious that the devs don't actually play their own game. Let me show you some simple maths.
A fed/Kling can min max a crit rate of 24.9% without buffs. Around 30% with buffs. A romulan can get that even higher.
But that requires a heap of consoles meaning that crit severity is around 70-120% depending on buffs.
Now that BO can crit all the time. People don't need the crit chance consoles/traits anymore. Now we have a 100% crit chance with anywhere from 100-300% crit severity.
The 25% damage reduction is going to do a sweet F&A. We will now be getting hit by Beam Overloads doing close to 100,000 damage, cause damage stacking isn't diminishing, its just stacked off base damage.
But resistance does. So we soft cap at about 68%. But thats for a dedi-tank. Commonly Resists are around 35-40%, that means that we are going to need to have a hull of close to 75,000+ just to not get insta-popped.
If you want to get away from the 1 shot vapes. And make the game more 'Trek'. There is 3 things you need to do.
1) Balance the classes, Sci is fine, Tac is a little OP and Engi needs some love.
2) Fix the over cap on Proton Barrage.
3) Give us more options on how we take targets down. Allow the battles of attrition where its skill baesed not 'Skills' based. This is Star Trek not Star Wars.
You guys need to have a look at how Starfleet Command 3 and Bridge Commander did thier space battles. There is a reason these are still voted the best Star Trek games. Lets make STO one of them.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
and i don't mean the HY variants that can at least be shot down...i mean the regular ones that you can't shoot down or even outrun because a hit or miss is calculated right at launch
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Agreed.. I hate getting one-shotted by Borg, hate it even more in PvP, which is why I quit doing PvP at all. As for raw DPS, I'm doing really great if I hit 8k DPS on any given mission and that's with fleet weapons and consoles. This change may make me look into getting BO3 again.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
[/SIGPIC]
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
It's getting to the point where I don't leave my ship without at least two copies of Weapon Malfunction.
I roll to disbelieve.
In the case you presented in your post, 30% of the time your fully buffed ambush BO crit would one-shot a player. Now, every single time a player uses Beam Overload, they will deal substantial damage without reducing their future DPS - but they will do *less* spike damage in an optimal case. This change both reduces randomness of outcome (reliance on crit chance) and brings in the possible variance of spike damage substantially.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
I was trying to be more polite about it, but I kinda agree here. Granted, we won't see how the nerf will apply ingame until the HoBOs start running their gank squad in Ker'rat. So it might make BO3 just a limp tickle. Or people will annihilate people with Shockwave/proton/BO3 combos out of nowhere. But I can kinda see why the guy wants to balance it away from one-hits since the last times I was in Ker'rat, all I did was fly in circles with my friends and wait for the spikers to come off their cooldowns and try again. We'd try to survive, then frantically try to kill the offending BoP or Warbird before it popped EPTE and zipped off at 200 impulse. It makes for dull PVP. In Ker'rat, anyway. Queues are different.
Buuuuut if it's not a one-hit, then a lot of people I know will drop Vape builds completely and go back to the spacebar mashing fun-fest that is A2B. So maybe we should save the panic attack till we see how bad/good the nerf/buff is. I dunno.
Yes, absolutely. We've made multiple passes at tweaking eSTF Borg difficulty over the years, and they still burst higher than we wish they did, due to at least one hard-to-reproduce bug and several design flaws. If you look at elite content in any of the critter groups we've made over the last 2 years, you'll find that one-shots only occur if they're both highly telegraphed and avoidable. For example, the Undine Planet Killer attack will likely one-shot you - but given how long it takes to spin up, you have ample time to hit Evasive Maneuvers, EPTS, etc.
I'll look at Borg again soon.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
oh yeah I would like my tracker beam to hold, nerf the PH immune and ApO immune.
and maybe a GW that always Crit, and please buff the GW dam by 150%
Hoo.. I see.. that is why Motivation in ground has 100% crit chance and transform G-PVP in a one shoting fest and matchs that ends even before they start. Seems logic..
Hell, there are reports of ppl nearly (not fully, but close) oneshoting STFs Bosses now... so, I dont get it..
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
But the numbers don't roll this way. What you have done now, is allow for a 60,000+ damage hit. Followed by fully powered cannons.
If there was a balance between defense and offense sure. But it is possible for tac's to over buff to such an extent that even dedi-tanks can be vaped. When a single ship can kill a tank, there is something horribly wrong.
And as for sustained DPS, cruisers and the like can already do that. People mix things like the Tetryon Glider in. Or use power drain. Or they make Exotic damage builds. Sustained DPS is there. Spike damage is so far over-capped.
It's simple, reduce tac spike capability. That's it. That's all you need to do.
And the only toon I really play is a tac. I would love to have more options on how I take someone down. I love the idea of killing, or being killed and going... Now how did you do that. Let us think outside the box.
Between this change and the now "the cool kids use it" combination of subspace jump followed by a really nasty proton barrage, that is exactly what is going on in PvP. That or the uncloak and alpha strike.
I'd love for you to go incognito into Ker'rat when certain players are in there and see how nasty those one shot kills are. As it is now, you go form 100% hull and full shields to blown to pieces in less than 3 seconds.
All claim at least a 50% boost to their vape. And that's on toons with no rep/consoles.
I have a proposal. get the dev's to go undercover and fly around in ker'rat for a few weeks. Stick around to a Hobo camp.
Then you will see how badly you are rogering PvP.
Update: People are getting a minimum of 45,000 damage hits. Every 15 seconds.
Awesome, just awesome. Only thing that would make this day worse is a patch note changing the R&D UR RCS consoles from how they work now. Lets give cruisers and escorts more DPS power creep.
Spaces' turn for 100% crit chance game breaking nonsense like what motivation did to ground. Just don't get these changes. At least it got to go to tribble instead of being just sprung from a lock box with no testing.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 51457 (73247) Antiproton Damage(Critical)
This is happening consistently. No chance, just all the time. On a toon that has no rep, and only 1 crit boosting console.
I agree, fingers crossed it will get tested and fixed. If it makes it to Holodeck it will be the death of PvP as we know it.
Yeah, saw the OPvP posts too:
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 54480 (68736) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 51457 (73247) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to
Every BO3 shot now is a deadly strike. I even have a nasty image in my head of a tactic to make this uber deadly.
Yup, Rom's will will get the biggest boost from it. Klings to. Feds will be utterly unplayable unless you have a zen ship.
[Combat (Self)] T'arget 1 deals 76249 (66797) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 42113 (47986) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to.
This is all Tribble testing going on right now. The vapers are having a party right now.