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Dyson Surveillance Destroyer build
taieme
Member Posts: 30 Arc User
Hi guys,
I'd like to discuss this my current Dyson Surveillance Destroyer build with you.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=rommiedysonsurveillancedestroyer_7592
I've put in the console set from the ships as well as put up those 600 Lobi to get the secondary deflector and singularity core. Ouch.
Now, where deflector and singularity core are cool, things are starting to get tricky with the other stuff. I have a couple of questions with this (now already high universal console) setup.
1. The engineering consoles: In my experience they hold pretty well in protonic/antiproton enemies (I'd throw one and replace them with Neutronium Alloys when going against borg or others).
a. Would it generally be a better idea to have neutronium alloys in there?
2. The weapons. (Ignore the beam array, it's there because I'm still learing to pilot well ...)
I'm planning to put in the Dyson rep. stuff in that goes with the Proton Particle Stabilizer (that I have already put in).
a. The borg cutting beam along with assimilated module: Console space is running low. Are they really best choice for this setup, or would an aceton assimilator perhaps be a better choice?
b. Should I go with those 4 set bonuses (solanae equipment, dyson weaps, dyson consoles and kcb/assimilated module) and replace one of the signature dampeners with the aceton assimilator?
c. Would a complete dual beam fore setup maybe do better overall damage given I'm not that good of a pilot yet? I like the DPS when I'm on target. But in many situations I find it difficult to stay on target. It's good against borg. In Dyson space .... well ...
d. Is this AP setup ok or would it be better for this ship in the long run to equip it with the Protonic (shield bypassing) weapons?
e. Would you sacrifice the eng consoles altogether, free one weapon console slot with that and put in another antiproton mag regulator?
3. Science Skills:
I have tractor beam repulsors as fourth science skill. Where that's sometimes nice for soloing it's hardly a "first move". And the strategy with this vessel most of the time is: You only fire your cmdr science slot in the very beginning, then go tac mode. Would it be better to get a cmdr drain ability for this slot than repulsors?
4. Overall:
I still find this bird turns slow. Is it worth boosting the turn rate more? (But what would I sacrifice for that ...)
It will take a little while to grind the rest of the dyson weaps, so I cannot test everything to the end right now. I'm just looking for pointers which direction to develop this build into.
Now this does not feel like a rommie ship, but it at least feels like a versatile science vessel with two nice klick blasts. And that's fun.
Bedah
Lyretha
I'd like to discuss this my current Dyson Surveillance Destroyer build with you.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=rommiedysonsurveillancedestroyer_7592
I've put in the console set from the ships as well as put up those 600 Lobi to get the secondary deflector and singularity core. Ouch.
Now, where deflector and singularity core are cool, things are starting to get tricky with the other stuff. I have a couple of questions with this (now already high universal console) setup.
1. The engineering consoles: In my experience they hold pretty well in protonic/antiproton enemies (I'd throw one and replace them with Neutronium Alloys when going against borg or others).
a. Would it generally be a better idea to have neutronium alloys in there?
2. The weapons. (Ignore the beam array, it's there because I'm still learing to pilot well ...)
I'm planning to put in the Dyson rep. stuff in that goes with the Proton Particle Stabilizer (that I have already put in).
a. The borg cutting beam along with assimilated module: Console space is running low. Are they really best choice for this setup, or would an aceton assimilator perhaps be a better choice?
b. Should I go with those 4 set bonuses (solanae equipment, dyson weaps, dyson consoles and kcb/assimilated module) and replace one of the signature dampeners with the aceton assimilator?
c. Would a complete dual beam fore setup maybe do better overall damage given I'm not that good of a pilot yet? I like the DPS when I'm on target. But in many situations I find it difficult to stay on target. It's good against borg. In Dyson space .... well ...
d. Is this AP setup ok or would it be better for this ship in the long run to equip it with the Protonic (shield bypassing) weapons?
e. Would you sacrifice the eng consoles altogether, free one weapon console slot with that and put in another antiproton mag regulator?
3. Science Skills:
I have tractor beam repulsors as fourth science skill. Where that's sometimes nice for soloing it's hardly a "first move". And the strategy with this vessel most of the time is: You only fire your cmdr science slot in the very beginning, then go tac mode. Would it be better to get a cmdr drain ability for this slot than repulsors?
4. Overall:
I still find this bird turns slow. Is it worth boosting the turn rate more? (But what would I sacrifice for that ...)
It will take a little while to grind the rest of the dyson weaps, so I cannot test everything to the end right now. I'm just looking for pointers which direction to develop this build into.
Now this does not feel like a rommie ship, but it at least feels like a versatile science vessel with two nice klick blasts. And that's fun.
Bedah
Lyretha
Post edited by taieme on
0
Comments
1a - Pure neutroniums are better armor for everything but the Voth and their antiprotons. However, the proc from the Rep console is nifty, I use that as my only armor on my KDF Sci-royer build...
2 - Only "real" benefit of KCB & Assimilated is boosts to crit and extra power. Power you won't really notice it with everything else keeping you around hard cap (and it's semi-spotty nature anyway), so either go leech (power all the time) or swap that transphasic aft for the Omega torp and get the whole 3 piece set for the spotty defense.
3 - Depends on your skills. TBR is a decent complement to your Grav Well skills, while I'm not sure how specced into drain you are. However, as you noticed, it's not an excellent opening move, since you seem to plan on flying the sci-royer like I do (tac mode 99% of the time), perhaps slotting GW III in there for an opening move / panic mode might be more useful to you, or Tyken's III if you have enough disable skill...
4 - Tactical mode's turn rate is up there. I find though, after so many months of "semi-slow turning" sci birds, the tac mode's extra maneuverability causes me to "overshoot" the target too much. I've been so used to the "escorty ships" cutting across my bow too many times that I just suck it up and maybe go against instinct and "opposite turn" them - if they zipping left, as soon as they leave cannon arc S-turn to starboard, and come around reversing turn again as soon as the enemy catches my arc (or he starts pulling away from me)...
4a - Stay with cannons - part of the Sci-royer's "annoyance" is that you're locked into those protonic DHCs during Tac mode, and unless you plan on flying her as a sci-ship primarily using the tac mode for "big boys only", you're gonna want the rest of the loadout synergizing with the DHCs. Heck, the omni-directional AP is barely useful on this ship, unless you remember to use subsystem targetting on the approach with your Cmdr Sci power (or, you're like me and love to CSV it and don't want the aft turret aggroing everything unattached in 10km...)
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It gets you solid damage at range, and about half the STFS need you to be at range. For example, borg gates don't shoot back if you sit at 9.75 or so range, the scimitar bosses can't get closer than 5km for long or they cloak, and it is wise to stay back from borg cubes in pugs because that gives you range to handle the deathtorps (get into cannon range and it can slip one on you before you can shoot it down or replace GW or mash your aoe fire button etc). The list goes on, but range is useful in pve, and beams do better at range than cannons. Also aoe on beams is slightly better IMHO, and pve is loaded with waves of aoe trash.
I am not fired up about the solanae free set. If there is something there you just have to have, ok, but what exactly is the draw to this set? Flee shield is better (and if not, I prefer the blue paratrinic to any free purple), the engine "on hit" turn rate thing is erratic (your turn rate is non constant and that makes it harder to fly, for me). The warp core isnt bad for free but if using Ap the omni core is your go-to, until you can get fleet. And the deflector is a nice item, 1/4. The set bonuses don't suit me either... heal 1/40th of your hull once in a blue moon. The 4 piece bonus is nice, but that means strapping on a lot of junky items to get it, as already noted. If the 4 piece had no cooldown, it might be worth it, but....
In other news....
use a fleet armor turn console for turn rate if it bothers you (mark x is almost as good as XII for a fraction the costs). Also, the undine console is a very nice item with a little turn rate on it. Finally, you can use the same tricks the big cows use to turn --- maybe carry a DO that supports evasive, and use evasive when you need to do a 180. This is the romulan dyson, so cloaking should help your turn rate, right?
Yes, use all tac consoles for damage increasing.
When I want to do that kind of tanking-beam-PvE I'm probably better off using that ship and have a more realistic "feel".
Here I'm particularly interested in optimizing the Dyson Surveillance Destroyer and yes, I sort of want to have it "feel" different, not run it as a beam boat.
I'll try play with the cloak for turning. For the time being I most of the time used evasive, especially after closing in, singularity jumping. Didn't know there's a doff with a cooldown reduction. Will look into that. I have some spare sets packed so that I need to see the doff slot machine anyway and "clean up" there ...
@dareau: Thanks for those pointers. I will have to wait until I unlock Omega Tier IV, but I will definitely try how that setup does feel. I had rapid transphasic torps as aft weapon initially but replaced them for a turret. Since my new "style" of flying this vessel means closing in and out more often that aft torpedo might not be such a bad idea ...
You have a point in trying to eliminate those random firing parts so you don't aggro things. May help cloaking in battle in this vessel, will have to try that. I could still gravity well or shockwave swarmers ...
Honestly, in PVE *every single ship* can run DBB without problems -- anything with a 10+ turn rate can manage them and even the biggest cows can reach that with at most 1 turn increasing item. Dual cannons, 15 turn rate. You can meet and exceed those values easily with any ship in the game -- and the dyson is just fine without any extra turn for pve.
Oh, and its a *science* ship. Gravity well is as good as turning in PVE -- you put the enemy where you want it, rather than track them in your cone of fire.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lyrethadysonrecon_7592
So I've replaced the cannons with beam arrays, and gone polaron. Basically because I want to continue putting in the protonic polaron stuff and I think the damage type isn't too much of an issue there right now.
Initially I wanted to fit four plasma infusers in. Then I decided to go for survivability first and tank it up as good as possible, so reduced the infusers to two, and replace parts when I see that they are overdone.
I've reduced the dyson console set to 2 piece. That's a bit selfish, because I can use the two shield buffs then for myself, but not extend it to others, but I don't seem to lose anything else by doing so, and that frees one console slot.
Initially I had the Valdore console in that slot. But after my first two hours of fights in the battle zone I noticed that my shields hardly ever even reach the point that it triggers, and I'd revert to sci mode for secondary shields or try to jump and cloak out at that point anyway. The shields seem to hold at a higher level with this setup and the available buffs.
For now I've replaced this with an aceton assimilator, I dunno yet whether that makes more sense than a third plasma infuser, but since the Voth ships are often enough immune to my weapons damage that might help. But I haven't really analyzed the logs. The survivability of this vessel is excellent for my taste, I can basically close in, sit with my nose on the gravity welled swarms and hit them on the head, using a singularity jump when things get too hot to pass them.
I'll want to try putting in the dyson torp launcher today as I have the dyson marks together. But that will be an experiment.
After a first analysis each of my polaron beam arrays does still contribute more to outgoing damage as the cannon (where I must admit that I screwed up and accidentally had a trop high yield in there instead of a cannon rapid fire). But that may be due to the more limited range and my piloting skills. The cutting beam contributed around 10% overall, which is awesome as it deals kinetic damage.
The contribution of the aft beam array and turret are rather neglectible, so I'm still searching for solutions. Maybe dyson rep equipment will help there. Probably best would be protonic stuff (that's why i still like the beam array in the back), since as I pass-jump the ships I am facing their stable shields.
The opening move is still the same as I hardly used it anyway, running the vessel in tac mode.
Feed back welcome :-)
Lyretha
Lose the aft beam array. Put in a second turret. Its possible to hit with forward beams and aft arrays on a target but you have to be aligned just so; in most cases unless its a giant target the aft won't fire.
You should be able to run 4 tac consoles for damage without dying.
Valdore is only useful if you have high dps. Otherwise the healing from it is too low to notice. If you build out a high dps ship, you can put it in -- it is *easily* worth both of those shield heal science consoles by itself in terms of healing done. If you stick to a sci support role, you may never want the valdore.
If you can afford it, use of 2 pieces of the upgraded JH set would really make those weapons shine. The engine and deflector are both very good; the engine provides weapon power and the deflector is heavy with flow caps and science.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lyrethadysonrecon_7592
I wonder what science console to take out then. Either the emitter or the max shield one. Max shield bumps up from 129xx to 140xx. Probably the shield heals would suffice. I could also put in a second sci in the universal slot.
Or would you rather put the assim. mod. into one of the eng slots and keep the emitter?
Is BO really worth it or would you recommend a second Lt. BFAW on the tac?
Is there any way how you can see the actual values of your ship (going beyond the little output you get in the ship status window)?
I'll draft up the pros and cons of the set bonuses later to compare.
Thanx
Lyretha
I can't see any difference in this build?
If I were trying to make a dps ship out of this, I would put in 4 pol tac consoles, JH engine and deflector, turret over array aft, and then your other consoles are based off your needs from there, to complete sets or boost science powers or whatever. Im having trouble getting a sense of the theme you want to build around, but being what it is, a sci ship, I would say you either want drains or gravity themed science (???) and your universals go in engineering slots. But you don't seem to actually be using the ship for heavy science, which is making it hard to say? Its like you want durability and dps more than science, in which case, is this the wrong ship for you?
If you are trying to make a support ship instead of dps, using the tac consoles for non-tac is OK. If that is the case, say so.
I would rather have 2 FAW. BO is nice, but you see more groups of trash than bosses, and BO is a bosskiller or pvp skill. Also, BO power drain requires a good power setup to quickly recover, which you don't currently seem to have, and carrying energy siphon to feed BO might work but costs a sci skill slot.
Go to the between space at new rom to look at values. The local space outside the planet, I mean. You can see your actual values there, and in similar places. The values are wrong if you are on the ground or in sector space, it has to be a "combat zone" (loosely used term here). The several pages of ship stats on your ship page is fairly detailed.... several sections...
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lyrethadysonrecon2_7592
I think I would move the universal. Put TT1 in the ensign, FAWX2 on the cmdr (tt1, faw, faw, APB), and let the uni be more healing of some sort, maybe duplicate your engineer or if you wanted more sci...? I would probably go copied engineer, so P2W is up more & an extra shield heal. You certainly don't need scatter...
Fleet items would be obvious upgrades in the long run, but it seems like a great start. I think its possible you could pick a better ship for this setup, but that is an aside. To me the strength of the dyson would be a sci heavy approach, for drains/GW, healing, or something. You are flying it like a destroyer but down 1 weapon effectively.
Well, it definitely is more fragile now.
Me personally, I would ditch the CSV, and put in an APO1, or APB1 there, leave your commander tac slot for either CRF/CSV/APO3.
Unless you prefer a lt. sci, or eng, normally this ships is all about the sci + tac power vs overall tankiness, not to say you can't tank with it, but overall it isn't the greatest multi-purpose ship, but it is a multi-capable ship.
EDIT: Oh, and BTW lose one of those eng consoles, and try to get yourself a plasmonic leech, and if you haven't already put a min of 6 points into flow caps.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!