The previous poster does have a point. It's been a couple of days and no word from them on if they would like to work this out with the player base. You can only ignore people so long till tempers start to flare. I understand there are rules here.
Still, if you don't "answer your phone" for 2 days while you are a business, people start to wonder if you even care.
There's nothing to work out. We don't own the game and therefore have NO say in how it goes.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
There's nothing to work out. We don't own the game and therefore have NO say in how it goes.
Yet most companies understand that it's in their best interest to communicate with their customers.
Cryptic made some specific statements -like each school ~= one reputation-, which are now contradicted by the patch. To explain the change and the new goals should be a matter of course. If you explain yourself, people might not agree, but they understand. Simply ignore them and they will come to their own conclusions - which will certainly not be favourable for the company.
There are not many areas of business with better connected customers than in online/gaming. Excellent communication is under such conditions mandatory, because you don't ignore and offend a single isolated customer, but a part of your overall community, dealing damage that after some point might not ever be undone again.
I was actually referring more to the player vs player byplay.
If you're operating a nightclub, patrons fighting each other in the foyer is not good for business. Similar principle here.
Keeping with your analogy, the reason the patrons are infighting is that they feel ignored by the establishment employees.
We've heard nothing behind the reasoning of this change. There's been no discourse over a compromise, many of which have been offered up in this very thread.
Any response at all, no matter how brief, is better than being ignored.
I want cryptic to know that this thread doesn't represent the entire STO community. This thread boils down to one thing. These players are impatient and don't want to wait for the ability to create max level gear so they can start overcharging for it on the exchange. Nor do they want to spend dilithium to make it go faster. Instant gratification is all they desire.
Except that for many of us old-timers, this will be the THIRD time we have had to grind all the way up to the top of the crafting system.
The initial crafting system was little more than a joke, but many of us used it anyway, because there were a few nice, shiny things.
When crafting v2 came out a couple years ago, we had to start at zero again, but we did it because there were more shiny things available, and it made a bit more sense than the first one.
Now, with the time gate so much tighter, those of us who took the weeks and months necessary to master TWO different crafting systems have to start from zero again, with TWO YEARS of grinding to look forward to?
I'm sorry, but this crafting system is nothing more than a slap in the face for those of us who have already gotten to the top twice now, only to find that it will take orders of magnitude more time to do so yet again...unless we want to pry open our wallets more than we already do.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I've been thinking about this statement. And I agree with it to an extent.
BUT...
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a crafting system kinda sorta in line with the character's actualy level. At present it takes a few days (less with XP weekends) to reach level 50. So logically, there should be some sort of unlock or accolade that keeps the flow so we can craft the same level (or close) gear. But instead we have a crafting system that takes around to complete at max and several reps that each take months to finish. On what planet does that make sense? Shouldn't at lease ONE of our gear providing methods match our level (outside PVE missions, which aren't always useful anyway). Think about how flawed that logic is and tell me it's a realistic and balanced system.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Except that for many of us old-timers, this will be the THIRD time we have had to grind all the way up to the top of the crafting system.
The initial crafting system was little more than a joke, but many of us used it anyway, because there were a few nice, shiny things.
When crafting v2 came out a couple years ago, we had to start at zero again, but we did it because there were more shiny things available, and it made a bit more sense than the first one.
Now, with the time gate so much tighter, those of us who took the weeks and months necessary to master TWO different crafting systems have to start from zero again, with TWO YEARS of grinding to look forward to?
I'm sorry, but this crafting system is nothing more than a slap in the face for those of us who have already gotten to the top twice now, only to find that it will take orders of magnitude more time to do so yet again...unless we want to pry open our wallets more than we already do.
I must admit, I'd be pretty mad if I'd done that and didn't get even some small acknowledgement of it in a new crafting system - like, I dunno, starting at level 5 or something.
1: You're punished with an extremely long 'crafting cycle if you don't fork over dilithium or the credit card'.
2: Crafting isn't fun and by the time this crafting cycle is complete the gear will be ten levels passed worthless for the average player.
3: This crafting grind is a sad excuse to make extra money and to get players to log into the game multiple times daily to pad their numbers.
There isn't a single other MMO not owned by Cryptic/PWE that has this ridiculous a crafting system. In every other game the crafting system is something you level WITH your character to supplement drops and gear rewards. For every other MMO - the crafting system is something that can be completed in hours by a high end character with the resources to dump into it.
If they want to make the crafting cycle longer and make players interested, make the BS part relatively easy to do - and make the recipes something fun to gather. Something like a 15 part doff chain with a story behind them.
This crafting system is a chore right now, not something fun to do. If a game isn't fun, people won't play. That's pretty much all there is to it.
If they don't say something or make any kind of patches tomorrow, it's going to be bad.
As sad as it is. I'm one to agree.
My entire fleet has stopped crafting already as a whole, and thats about 20 people who've put quite a bit down already for this. We already lost 8 members cause of this stunt that was pulled for a crafting revival.
I think a grand portion of the playerbase would appreciate such changes.
2 days ago i went and tried tanks, now THERE was some imbalance, and crappy tudes, one more show of the state of the human condition for sure, STO wise, as for the crafting system, i smelt impending doom, and i am still washing undergarments, lol :P
my first reply to this thread, and hopefully my last.
im ok with a long journey to max out crafting.
i do believe that cryptic have back-pedalled with the removal of our ability to queue multiple research projects from the same school. everything said in the leadup to that nerf indicated we would be able to push a single school hard and focus on 'specialisation'.
if cryptic simply reverted that single nerf i would be happy enough with crafting to put real effort into into it.
im ok with the monetisation of crafting via 'finish now' with dil.
i wish the button wasnt 3x larger than any other button in the ui though. it reminds me of a 'FREE MONIES!!!' banner ad or whatnot.
i wish the button required a confirmation, or better yet, opened a contribution slider like the fleet holding dil contribution bucket. as is, its too 'all or nothing'.
i also believe that the amount of dil associated with 'finish now' is completely over the top, particularly when you take into consideration that there is no means to budget. you cant think 'ok i will just drop 5k into that'. im not opposed to spending dil, and prior to the research project nerf, i actually did. but if i am going to continue to do that the dill price is going to have to be reduced quite substantially.
im not asking for crafting to made easy. i dont want crafting to be something that everyone is going to max out in a couple of months. i am willing to 'grind'. but it just seems so... unfulfilling knowing how long i will be queuing single school research projects and having no other real interaction with crafting, nor any real use for crafting, til i hit lvl 15. theres not really anything worth crafting.
uh ya, it is still 6000X3 no matter how it is rolled up, another 2 thumbs down on the R&D sense it only has added a X3 timer on production *COUGH* sense you still would *gasp* have 0XP for, low and behold, 2 other schools before and *giggles* +12,000 MORE to the one you want
(pre X3 lvl5 schools)
and here we are thinking that Star Trek was a pinnacle yet vague fantasy reference to humanities Mathematical and Technological proles, i guess not!! lol!
So the NERF I mean "fix" came through, ruined crafting for me as well.. Why SOOO much grabby this time? I mean seriously lock boxes with 1:900+ odds is quite bad enough thaks now time gate, money gate, wheres the trek? R and give us more money, we will provide you with a 0.0000000001% chance to get something that will return to you 0.000000001% of what you put in and no new content, more money then more again..
FAIL PWE FAIL, put it back to prior to your fix and MAYBE its a system that wont break your bank
Everyone in my 100 player fleet gave up on crafting after the nerf. Several of them gave up on STO altogether and have enrolled in one of our gaming communities other sponsored games. No one has the desire to spend 105 days to reach level 15 in a crafting school let alone the ridiculous 345 day requirement to max a school. Now if each school were to take 90 days to max, that would be perfectly fine and I along with my fleet could handle that. But as it stands now, Cryptic/PWE can keep this travesty and stick it between their buns because we are no longer interested in what they're selling.
anyone remember the last 1 year grind? the fleet system? boy, wasnt that a fulfilling system. when it was released it sounded so great, the potential for fleet-vs-fleet PVP, custom bases ripe with RP potential, a bunch of endgame gear, at least 5 new PVE queued missions, and the promise of all sorts of new things coming. it really made the fleet system seem like THE source of endgame content.
compare that to the crafting system. both a 1 year grind, both likely to get additional grinds latched onto them with extra holdings/schools. both give a bunch of endgame gear. but thats where the similarities end.
the fleet system had/has so much potential that they decided they couldnt do/didnt want to do (i blame laziness personally, as they seem to get side tracked way to easily.)
the crafting system seems like it started as a good attempt at a revamp, then was blown way out of proportion as a grind to the extreme, with no visible or imaginable future. what could be expanded on from the crafting system besides new ways to suck us dry or get some toy we already have?
the fleet system gave us FIVE new PVE queues. not all of them are great, but there's something for everyone. the crafting system just threw more junk onto the pre existing missions, which is okay until you realize how lazy that is. there's not even an attempt to make something similar to the exploration system, even as a place holder.
i've been waiting for this update for a while to see if cryptic can salvage the game after their TRIBBLE ups. it doesnt look like they can, or at least, they dont know how. i'll glance at the game again when expansion 2 comes out. it seems a shame not to play the game after all the money i've invested, but cryptic is doing too good a job driving people away.
anyone remember the last 1 year grind? the fleet system?
Well, thing about the fleet system is that is a group thing. The system was designed for groups of players to band together to get the whole thing done and build something together.
Reputations that we got in Season 7 were meant to be the other side of the coin, letting players have individual shorter-term grinds to do.
This crafting system is just a simple long-term annoyance, honestly. Designed to purposefully be unfulfilling and slow without any useful stuff for high level characters be easily made without either paying a ton of dil (and by extension wanting people to get Zen for that dil) or just wait ungodly amounts of time for it to finish, or grind your head off by making junk items to level faster.
Before when it was about a month to hit level 15 in a school to make the unique equipment, that was one thing, and two months to max it out. It was long, but tolerable, allowing people to eventually finish the whole thing in a year. Now it might as well be a year just to get all the schools to level 15.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
A friend of mine gave data regarding the times needed now to finish crafting to Smirk. Smirk is supposed to be personally testing this stuff so we'll see what happens.
They aren't going to comment on this issue. If they were they would have by now. The next actual communication we have with them will be the announcement of the expansion and crafting will be left as is.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
A friend of mine gave data regarding the times needed now to finish crafting to Smirk. Smirk is supposed to be personally testing this stuff so we'll see what happens.
I'm not entirely optimistic, but that's better than nothing...
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
The levelling time seems a little lengthy, but I'm more annoyed at how infrequently the very rare materials drop in the queues. I've played the Undine missions a dozen times now and not had it drop. At that rate, it's going to take more than a year to accumulate the materials needed for a Mk XII item, let alone the 4 or 5 needed to actually equip a ship.
If I do not have all the widgets pre made, it takes 95 mouse clicks to construct the widgets for the engine, shield, whatever. I will do some grinding, but not if I am going to burn out a mouse in the process.
You know, I had this angry post all planned out, but then I realized that everyone has pretty much made up their minds and its just raising my blood pressure. So I'll leave this review about the TR-116B here, and let you think on it. Consider it a PSA.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix5FnOjbZY
There's nothing to work out. We don't own the game and therefore have NO say in how it goes.
Cryptic made some specific statements -like each school ~= one reputation-, which are now contradicted by the patch. To explain the change and the new goals should be a matter of course. If you explain yourself, people might not agree, but they understand. Simply ignore them and they will come to their own conclusions - which will certainly not be favourable for the company.
There are not many areas of business with better connected customers than in online/gaming. Excellent communication is under such conditions mandatory, because you don't ignore and offend a single isolated customer, but a part of your overall community, dealing damage that after some point might not ever be undone again.
Keeping with your analogy, the reason the patrons are infighting is that they feel ignored by the establishment employees.
We've heard nothing behind the reasoning of this change. There's been no discourse over a compromise, many of which have been offered up in this very thread.
Any response at all, no matter how brief, is better than being ignored.
The initial crafting system was little more than a joke, but many of us used it anyway, because there were a few nice, shiny things.
When crafting v2 came out a couple years ago, we had to start at zero again, but we did it because there were more shiny things available, and it made a bit more sense than the first one.
Now, with the time gate so much tighter, those of us who took the weeks and months necessary to master TWO different crafting systems have to start from zero again, with TWO YEARS of grinding to look forward to?
I'm sorry, but this crafting system is nothing more than a slap in the face for those of us who have already gotten to the top twice now, only to find that it will take orders of magnitude more time to do so yet again...unless we want to pry open our wallets more than we already do.
No, Shran actually looks aggressive.
More like this guy. Only skinny.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Mot.jpg
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
lol
I've been thinking about this statement. And I agree with it to an extent.
BUT...
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a crafting system kinda sorta in line with the character's actualy level. At present it takes a few days (less with XP weekends) to reach level 50. So logically, there should be some sort of unlock or accolade that keeps the flow so we can craft the same level (or close) gear. But instead we have a crafting system that takes around to complete at max and several reps that each take months to finish. On what planet does that make sense? Shouldn't at lease ONE of our gear providing methods match our level (outside PVE missions, which aren't always useful anyway). Think about how flawed that logic is and tell me it's a realistic and balanced system.
I must admit, I'd be pretty mad if I'd done that and didn't get even some small acknowledgement of it in a new crafting system - like, I dunno, starting at level 5 or something.
1: You're punished with an extremely long 'crafting cycle if you don't fork over dilithium or the credit card'.
2: Crafting isn't fun and by the time this crafting cycle is complete the gear will be ten levels passed worthless for the average player.
3: This crafting grind is a sad excuse to make extra money and to get players to log into the game multiple times daily to pad their numbers.
There isn't a single other MMO not owned by Cryptic/PWE that has this ridiculous a crafting system. In every other game the crafting system is something you level WITH your character to supplement drops and gear rewards. For every other MMO - the crafting system is something that can be completed in hours by a high end character with the resources to dump into it.
If they want to make the crafting cycle longer and make players interested, make the BS part relatively easy to do - and make the recipes something fun to gather. Something like a 15 part doff chain with a story behind them.
This crafting system is a chore right now, not something fun to do. If a game isn't fun, people won't play. That's pretty much all there is to it.
As sad as it is. I'm one to agree.
My entire fleet has stopped crafting already as a whole, and thats about 20 people who've put quite a bit down already for this. We already lost 8 members cause of this stunt that was pulled for a crafting revival.
I think a grand portion of the playerbase would appreciate such changes.
Oh the humanity.... Oh the insanity.... Oh the Empty Queue bugs....
Yeah, old vid but very good vid. It still reminds me how the frak could they shut down that series....
I only wish that they had added non-Aegis UR deflectors and engines like they did with weapons.
im ok with a long journey to max out crafting.
i do believe that cryptic have back-pedalled with the removal of our ability to queue multiple research projects from the same school. everything said in the leadup to that nerf indicated we would be able to push a single school hard and focus on 'specialisation'.
if cryptic simply reverted that single nerf i would be happy enough with crafting to put real effort into into it.
im ok with the monetisation of crafting via 'finish now' with dil.
i wish the button wasnt 3x larger than any other button in the ui though. it reminds me of a 'FREE MONIES!!!' banner ad or whatnot.
i wish the button required a confirmation, or better yet, opened a contribution slider like the fleet holding dil contribution bucket. as is, its too 'all or nothing'.
i also believe that the amount of dil associated with 'finish now' is completely over the top, particularly when you take into consideration that there is no means to budget. you cant think 'ok i will just drop 5k into that'. im not opposed to spending dil, and prior to the research project nerf, i actually did. but if i am going to continue to do that the dill price is going to have to be reduced quite substantially.
im not asking for crafting to made easy. i dont want crafting to be something that everyone is going to max out in a couple of months. i am willing to 'grind'. but it just seems so... unfulfilling knowing how long i will be queuing single school research projects and having no other real interaction with crafting, nor any real use for crafting, til i hit lvl 15. theres not really anything worth crafting.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
(pre X3 lvl5 schools)
and here we are thinking that Star Trek was a pinnacle yet vague fantasy reference to humanities Mathematical and Technological proles, i guess not!! lol!
FAIL PWE FAIL, put it back to prior to your fix and MAYBE its a system that wont break your bank
If you could get to 1 to 15 in two months, and than to 10 in another two months, that would be okey.
But a year? LOL dil scam.
Guess I will try back again in a couple of days.
compare that to the crafting system. both a 1 year grind, both likely to get additional grinds latched onto them with extra holdings/schools. both give a bunch of endgame gear. but thats where the similarities end.
the fleet system had/has so much potential that they decided they couldnt do/didnt want to do (i blame laziness personally, as they seem to get side tracked way to easily.)
the crafting system seems like it started as a good attempt at a revamp, then was blown way out of proportion as a grind to the extreme, with no visible or imaginable future. what could be expanded on from the crafting system besides new ways to suck us dry or get some toy we already have?
the fleet system gave us FIVE new PVE queues. not all of them are great, but there's something for everyone. the crafting system just threw more junk onto the pre existing missions, which is okay until you realize how lazy that is. there's not even an attempt to make something similar to the exploration system, even as a place holder.
i've been waiting for this update for a while to see if cryptic can salvage the game after their TRIBBLE ups. it doesnt look like they can, or at least, they dont know how. i'll glance at the game again when expansion 2 comes out. it seems a shame not to play the game after all the money i've invested, but cryptic is doing too good a job driving people away.
Well, thing about the fleet system is that is a group thing. The system was designed for groups of players to band together to get the whole thing done and build something together.
Reputations that we got in Season 7 were meant to be the other side of the coin, letting players have individual shorter-term grinds to do.
This crafting system is just a simple long-term annoyance, honestly. Designed to purposefully be unfulfilling and slow without any useful stuff for high level characters be easily made without either paying a ton of dil (and by extension wanting people to get Zen for that dil) or just wait ungodly amounts of time for it to finish, or grind your head off by making junk items to level faster.
Before when it was about a month to hit level 15 in a school to make the unique equipment, that was one thing, and two months to max it out. It was long, but tolerable, allowing people to eventually finish the whole thing in a year. Now it might as well be a year just to get all the schools to level 15.
They aren't going to comment on this issue. If they were they would have by now. The next actual communication we have with them will be the announcement of the expansion and crafting will be left as is.
I'm not entirely optimistic, but that's better than nothing...
https://twitter.com/PWECaptainSmirk/status/492473819039162368
This is only part of the conversation but this should be enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ruCbP9TCKM&list=UUTDRdSfaA2Ie9enPIQE-P3w
Nouveau riche LTS member