Are we allowed to reference Star Trek Online literature in foundry missions?

dwapook · July 2014

Are we allowed to reference the short stories in Star Trek Magazine or the novel "Star Trek Online: the Needs of the Many" in our foundry missions?

azurianstar · July 2014

No you can't.

Even if it is stories about STO, the EULA specifically says you cannot. It has to be a reference from the TV series or the movies up to Nemesis.

markhawkman · July 2014

From the FAQ, sort of, the FAQ just says to look up the "list of properties".

And... the old link to the EULA in the FAQ is gone. do we have a new one?

drogyn1701 · July 2014

The EULA is still a stickied thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=209216

You may not use copyrighted content from the Properties, including but not limited to web content, promotional materials (posters, advertisements) or existing licensed merchandise (novels, trading cards, figurines).

markhawkman · July 2014

Ah, ok. this does seem like a bit of a grey area though. One could argue that some of what the OP referenced is part of STO, just not in game. A lot of the stuff that is in-game as the Path to 2409 is in some issues of the magazine, but in a different form. I'm not sure if all of it is the same. I think some of the magazine version might be longer than the game version, not sure.

artan42 · July 2014

A related question. Are we allowed to use characters like Tuvok? I'm sure we are allowed to use Quinn or Drake and other game characters, but what about, Spock, Worf, Scotty, Mcoy, Tuvok, and Tasha? These characters have had their rights rented by Cryptic. Also what about Madred, D'Tan, or Icheb etc. where the ingame versions are not based upon the actual actors?

psycoticvulcan · July 2014

artan42 wrote: »

A related question. Are we allowed to use characters like Tuvok? I'm sure we are allowed to use Quinn or Drake and other game characters, but what about, Spock, Worf, Scotty, Mcoy, Tuvok, and Tasha? These characters have had their rights rented by Cryptic. Also what about Madred, D'Tan, or Icheb etc. where the ingame versions are not based upon the actual actors?

Branflakes (I think) said a long time ago that we cannot use the likeness of any real-life actor, even if said actor has an "official" STO character modeled after them. Less accurate likenesses are more of a grey area, but I'd err on the side of caution.

isthisscience · July 2014

I think you're reading it as more restrictive than it is.

It depends what you're referencing exactly. STO's licence doesn't include books, but it takes a lot of the story line of the books in its own reworked timeline. Virinat came from the books, and it is central to the Romulan story arc. Sela's later life was also lifted from the books. They don't form part of the cannon of STO but names, places and ideas are incorporated regardless of licence.

If you were to include a character, or start quoting or turning a whole story line into a mission - then you have a problem. But referencing a place, person or event in abstract would be fine.

dwapook · July 2014

I'm not really so sure about that.. Cryptic has to get it all approved by CBS whom probably have a broader understanding of all the individual rights divided between the authors, publishers, and themselves.. No idea what kind of hoops they have to go through to use any of that stuff and can't really assume the same freedoms extend to us..

If it did, would be nice to now!

drogyn1701 · July 2014

Best advice, if you're unsure of something, don't do it.

azurianstar · July 2014

markhawkman wrote: »

Ah, ok. this does seem like a bit of a grey area though. One could argue that some of what the OP referenced is part of STO, just not in game. A lot of the stuff that is in-game as the Path to 2409 is in some issues of the magazine, but in a different form. I'm not sure if all of it is the same. I think some of the magazine version might be longer than the game version, not sure.

Only be gray if you go about referencing the material in aroundabout way. Like indirectly talking about something. For an example, with the Destiny Novels, we can't say "The Typhon Pact", but could go about saying "the Pact".

artan42 wrote: »

A related question. Are we allowed to use characters like Tuvok? I'm sure we are allowed to use Quinn or Drake and other game characters, but what about, Spock, Worf, Scotty, Mcoy, Tuvok, and Tasha? These characters have had their rights rented by Cryptic. Also what about Madred, D'Tan, or Icheb etc. where the ingame versions are not based upon the actual actors?

Q: Can you use a canonical character?

A: Yes, as long as it doesn't violate actor's likeness rights.

You may NOT use the first name or last names, likenesses, or other depictions of any actors appearing in, or writers, directors, or producers of the Star Trek Properties.

I wanted to use Kor in my Foundry mission and I asked around, especially with CBS legal. I got the answer that it was okay to use canonical characters, as long as you DO NOT violate the actor's likeness rights (aka, make Kirk to look like Shatner or Pine, or Spock to look like Nimoy or Quinto). But there is NOTHING that prevents you from making your own characterizations of Spock or Kirk.

Another way is making some adjustments to a canonical character with likeness rights. A good example, is that there was a popular Foundry author (I forgot who), who added Picard in one of his storyline missions, but he avoided the likeness rights by putting Geordi glasses on him. So you could take that route too.

With Cryptic-created characters, I do believe they are okay. Hope so, got B'vat making an appearance. :P

isthisscience · July 2014

Has anyone at all had any kind of interaction with Cryptic of a potential violation of the EULA? Has anything been reported/investigated/removed/cautioned? If so, what were the circumstances? If not, they likely couldn't care less. A lot of EULA's sound very strict because Legal like to cover their TRIBBLE just in case, but they're only concerned about the slight possibility of a limited type of specific cases - in this case it is probably us trying to recreate the appearance of actors or use JJ stuff - c'est tout.

artan42 · July 2014

Well I was going to do a senior staff type conference with all the NPCs ranked Admiral I could, looks like I'll have to drop Tuvok.

thegreendragoon1 · July 2014

artan42 wrote: »

Well I was going to do a senior staff type conference with all the NPCs ranked Admiral I could, looks like I'll have to drop Tuvok.

He's off in the Delta Quadrant anyway.

starswordc · July 2014

artan42 wrote: »

Well I was going to do a senior staff type conference with all the NPCs ranked Admiral I could, looks like I'll have to drop Tuvok.

Just make some up. If you want I can send you the sliders for one of my OCs, Admiral Amnell Kree (joined Trill, Peregrine pilot, hardass Dominion War vet who doesn't suffer fools).

artan42 · July 2014

starswordc wrote: »

Just make some up. If you want I can send you the sliders for one of my OCs, Admiral Amnell Kree (joined Trill, Peregrine pilot, hardass Dominion War vet who doesn't suffer fools).

Thanks. I'm still writing 'till the lag thing gets sorted. The rate I'm writing nowadays though it's going to be days long

.

paxfederatica · July 2014

azurianstar wrote: »

I wanted to use Kor in my Foundry mission and I asked around, especially with CBS legal. I got the answer that it was okay to use canonical characters, as long as you DO NOT violate the actor's likeness rights (aka, make Kirk to look like Shatner or Pine, or Spock to look like Nimoy or Quinto). But there is NOTHING that prevents you from making your own characterizations of Spock or Kirk.

Another way is making some adjustments to a canonical character with likeness rights. A good example, is that there was a popular Foundry author (I forgot who), who added Picard in one of his storyline missions, but he avoided the likeness rights by putting Geordi glasses on him. So you could take that route too.

That would be "The Inner Darkness" by Leviathan99. Of course, some characters are easier to do that with than others. Odo comes to mind - he's a Changeling, so you could redesign him to look however you jolly well please, and all you'd need to explain this is a bit of dialogue saying he's decided to change up his appearance.

Then there's the curious case of "Romulan Ensign Female 04", a full Empress Sela costume that has been available in the Foundry since Day One. Given that the devs put it there in the first place, you'd think they took care of any likeness issues beforehand, right? As it turns out, not so much. As discussed in a recent Foundry Roundtable podcast, Cryptic's permission to use Denise Crosby's likeness as Sela technically doesn't extend to the Foundry, but the higher-ups were apparently unaware that the costume was even there until recently; a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand had done. Hence, BranFlakes's warning to authors not to use "Romulan Ensign Female 04" as Sela - which, alas, came way too late for me and my Romulan Republic trilogy. (I wound up reluctantly writing her out of the trilogy, not so much for fear of legal repercussions as expecting that the Sela costume will, at some point in the future, be modified or removed from the Foundry altogether, either of which would break Parts II and III and force me to rewrite them anyway.)

azurianstar · July 2014

paxfederatica wrote: »

That would be "The Inner Darkness" by Leviathan99. Of course, some characters are easier to do that with than others. Odo comes to mind - he's a Changeling, so you could redesign him to look however you jolly well please, and all you'd need to explain this is a bit of dialogue saying he's decided to change up his appearance.

Thank you, and indeed you can.

In fact, it could work with any of the characters and say they were undercover. Picard was a Romulan, Sisko and the crew were Klingons. So someone could go that route too.

paxfederatica wrote: »

Then there's the curious case of "Romulan Ensign Female 04", a full Empress Sela costume that has been available in the Foundry since Day One. Given that the devs put it there in the first place, you'd think they took care of any likeness issues beforehand, right? As it turns out, not so much. As discussed in a recent Foundry Roundtable podcast, Cryptic's permission to use Denise Crosby's likeness as Sela technically doesn't extend to the Foundry, but the higher-ups were apparently unaware that the costume was even there until recently; a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand had done. Hence, BranFlakes's warning to authors not to use "Romulan Ensign Female 04" as Sela - which, alas, came way too late for me and my Romulan Republic trilogy. (I wound up reluctantly writing her out of the trilogy, not so much for fear of legal repercussions as expecting that the Sela costume will, at some point in the future, be modified or removed from the Foundry altogether, either of which would break Parts II and III and force me to rewrite them anyway.)

Indeed. But I doubt many authors know that, so maybe if they ever upgrade the Foundry UI, there is like a community clipboard that points to certain warnings and tips.

tpalelena · July 2014

Do not let evil capitalism get you down!

Just do what the undine do, call him Tooooooooooooooooooovok!

And say you are doing a parody!

Just say he is using a holographic disguise!

pwecaptainsmirk · July 2014

markhawkman wrote: »

From the FAQ, sort of, the FAQ just says to look up the "list of properties".

And... the old link to the EULA in the FAQ is gone. do we have a new one?

Fixed this so the link now goes to the EULA Forum Thread.

~CaptainSmirk

markhawkman · July 2014

pwecaptainsmirk wrote: »

Fixed this so the link now goes to the EULA Forum Thread.

~CaptainSmirk

Thanks!

dariuskoronikov · August 2014

Hmm the whole sela model thing..seems odd..i used is as a clone of sela for 2 years..mind you she has a new name.. personality..completely different to Sela.. are they afraid we'll do something illegal with the likeness?

and..this is where I find it odd..most people when they think of canon characters..we do think of them as their actors.. and if you create one that doesn't look anything like it...well.. it could ruin the gaming experience..and as we all know its the odd things that seem to ruin it

I chose just to use my own and just refer to canon characters stuff..i read alot os star wars books and the best ones are the ones with very few if any of the main characters from the movies..its a big galaxy.. hardto believe its the sae few people who are always there saving the day

drogyn1701 · August 2014

dariuskoronikov wrote: »

I chose just to use my own

This.

You are always, always, always better off making up your own characters. That way there's no ambiguity or legal issues to hassle with.

dariuskoronikov · August 2014

Exactly, your not bound by the canon character peronalitie either..you can be as out and out creative..like my Admiral Rolt...a Bajoran with a Cardassian wifeand half cardie daughter

I think alot of this is to stop people writing them..out of character or going out and out weird..like a mission where..say you go back in time and cure kirk of erectile disfunction so he can father spocks sisters ( i know he doesn't but some halfwit could "create" one ) sothe resulting hybrids great grandson..on his mothers side..becomes president.. y'know stupid..stupid stuff

markhawkman · August 2014

One character I had a lot of fun creating is Enliss. She's a liberated Borg Vorta from a parallel universe, and has a mean streak even longer than the scar on her face.

dariuskoronikov · August 2014

i see your Enliss and raise you Vollana. a romulan commando, who is too arrogant..for other romulans..highlights include wanting to cut a ferengis lobes off with a dull blade (would make it more fun apparently )..winning the first bat'leth tournament open to other races (and gloating about being a superior warrior)..eah.. she is death to all who oppose her

markhawkman · August 2014

Sounds interesting.

Not a typical Romulan, but not far from it.

starswordc · August 2014

I'll see your Vollana and raise you Grell, a wisecracking ex-Ferengi military Section 31 supervisor.

I really love turning species stereotypes completely inside-out.

dariuskoronikov · August 2014

if you type dariuskoronikov into the fundry search you'll get my missions..(its a series of 40 missions..with Vollana and many more characters in it )

and I agree sometimes turning stereotypes on their head or..highlighting the sillieness of it..e.g. Vollana sounds like the perfect romulan..efficient, calculating and arrogant..but shes more or less TOO good..highlighting the perfet romulan makes for a poor soldier (not in ability..but more int he taking orders regardless of personal opinion way )

I created a bunch of vorta who were an experiment by the founders to see if vorta would serve by choice not preprogrammed loyalty.when some didn't wanna they tried to erradicate them..but some got asylum in the federation

and of course an experimental cardasssian combat hologram which..imagine Roddy McDowall playing a Cardassian..and thats him

markhawkman · August 2014

Well, one interesting aspect of Enliss is that the Founders of this universe didn't create her but she's loyal to them anyways. However, she doesn't ACT like the Vorta in this universe. She doesn't bother with tact or niceties, and is often mean just because she can.

Are we allowed to reference Star Trek Online literature in foundry missions?

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