test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Spawn camping/killing where does it end?
icysamas
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
I apoligize my English in advanced 
I would like to adress a common issue in Shanty Town, Ground PVP assault queue. A lot of players "ideal" as to where or what the spawn is seem to differ and actually it makes me a little confused. Here is an example
Real example in game: Red team, having stronget players(or w/e) has manage to gain control over both sides of the bridge leaving blue team on the ground fighting to attempt and retake the 'high-ground'. Red team continues to kill every blue team officier that attemps to run up and retake the area and blue team is unable to capture the high-ground* due to lack of skill, coordination and so forth.
Blue team then accuses red team of "spawn camping" for not allowing them onto the high ground.
As to make sure there are no question to this matter: Red team did not fire at blue team while; activly respawning, re-applyment of buffs, or members standing still. Blue team were only shot once they have started firing, commenced pet spam or have moved AND have been spawned for more than 15 seconds(approx).
Now, to my general knowlege of PVP, it is not listed on any mission but while developing a strategy it is known that high-ground* is in fact an advantage. Now with that said, It could be called a "secondary objective" to gain control of the high ground. This does put the opposite team at a disadvantage, but the scale was tipped by fair play and strategy. CApturing of this side of the "building" allows for safe passage of the "virus runner" which even is after all the 'Mission" of shanty assault aside from a large scaled shoot'em up. So this strategy even woorks with the theme* of the game type.
My question to you is, Where does the spawn end? Do you feel it is the earth all around spawn area up until the building? Do you feel that both teams have a right to their own 'high-ground'? Is it wrong to seek a strategic advantage by capturing the high ground? How far do you think "RED TEAM" should allow "BLUE TEAM" to go before they actually open fire? How much of there hard earned advantage does Red Team* have to give up before it's enough,
please leave logical full detailed respnses below. I realize this can be a heated topic so please, no beligerent arguments here. Let's keep a calm conversation sort this out; come to a concensus and maybe even improve fair play in PVP. Thank you.
I would like to adress a common issue in Shanty Town, Ground PVP assault queue. A lot of players "ideal" as to where or what the spawn is seem to differ and actually it makes me a little confused. Here is an example
Real example in game: Red team, having stronget players(or w/e) has manage to gain control over both sides of the bridge leaving blue team on the ground fighting to attempt and retake the 'high-ground'. Red team continues to kill every blue team officier that attemps to run up and retake the area and blue team is unable to capture the high-ground* due to lack of skill, coordination and so forth.
Blue team then accuses red team of "spawn camping" for not allowing them onto the high ground.
As to make sure there are no question to this matter: Red team did not fire at blue team while; activly respawning, re-applyment of buffs, or members standing still. Blue team were only shot once they have started firing, commenced pet spam or have moved AND have been spawned for more than 15 seconds(approx).
Now, to my general knowlege of PVP, it is not listed on any mission but while developing a strategy it is known that high-ground* is in fact an advantage. Now with that said, It could be called a "secondary objective" to gain control of the high ground. This does put the opposite team at a disadvantage, but the scale was tipped by fair play and strategy. CApturing of this side of the "building" allows for safe passage of the "virus runner" which even is after all the 'Mission" of shanty assault aside from a large scaled shoot'em up. So this strategy even woorks with the theme* of the game type.
My question to you is, Where does the spawn end? Do you feel it is the earth all around spawn area up until the building? Do you feel that both teams have a right to their own 'high-ground'? Is it wrong to seek a strategic advantage by capturing the high ground? How far do you think "RED TEAM" should allow "BLUE TEAM" to go before they actually open fire? How much of there hard earned advantage does Red Team* have to give up before it's enough,
please leave logical full detailed respnses below. I realize this can be a heated topic so please, no beligerent arguments here. Let's keep a calm conversation sort this out; come to a concensus and maybe even improve fair play in PVP. Thank you.
Post edited by icysamas on
0
Comments
Best I can tell you is use the terrain to your advantage and focus fire.
It could be used to your advantage though. My best kill in ground PvP was an old engineer in the full omega set. The entire enemy team was camping the spawn from an elevated position. I cloaked up, sneaked behind them all and planted mines and a bomb, and wiped the entire team out. We still lost the match but they didn't camp again
people feel they are entitled to anything on this game even in pvp, so what? just keep fighting.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
So for argument's sake,lets say that it's true....what has the 'far superior' team to prove by spawn camping?If they are 'superior',they wouldn't have to spawn camp to win,now do they?
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
This is one reason why I quit doing PVPs. Cause once they bottled you up. You just sit there for the match to end as a dead person.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I'll just stick with PVE to me their more fun to play then going after other players in PVP death match!
Time will only tell!
Spawn camping is a choice.In my opinion,if you need to spawn camp to win,you don't deserve to win.
In my fleet we have a few rules when it comes to PvP,the most obvious one is: no spawn camping.But also cheating,abusing broken game mechanics and logging off to avoid being killed are grounds for removal from the fleet.We also don't rolfstomp a team if it is clear they are no match,we PvP to have fun,not to make less experienced players feel bad and make them quit PvPing.
In the end it's up to you what kind of player you want to be.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
No, Spawn camping is when an individual or a team move to the enemy spawn area and attack/kill the enemy giving the enemy little to no chance of even moving or retaliating...
So if they are taking this high ground and can shoot/kill you from it the moment you spawn(I don't play the map) then yes its spawn camping, if you spawn and you move to attack the high ground but fail over and over.... that.s not spawn camping.
Why gimp yourself when you can finish it fast?
Yeah, what I said, superior tactics. The same applies to camper in Shooters, as long as the team wins, and he kills, there is no problem. Its not the campers fault you die, its yours, since you werent focused enough. Its like accusing the spider of foulplay just because the Insect was to dumb to avoid the net.
spawncamping means you are sat at an enemy spawn waiting to kill the first enemy to appear from the spawn point. the name is a dead giveaway. spawnkilling is where you are just killing those in the spawn point with whatever means you have, there was this one map on wolf et that had an open spawn point for the enemy, you could bottle them in that room, throw a airstrike or arty strike, you could get upwards of 15+ kills in one go and you keep doing it until the other side realizes there is no point and stop spawning. by that point you can either let the enemy team have some room or wait until the clock has finished countdown. whatever the case the enemy is boxed in even if you gave em some room, by that definition your spawncamping because what you mean by giving room could just be that 90 angle corridor and stairs and thats it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
funny thing, spawnkillers in other shooters are usually regarded as no skillers and usually the scummiest of the playerbase, a lot of other players who regard themselves as fair players either stay back and dont get involved or log off and try another server.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yeah, thats why I never did, it just didnt have much skill, though we mostly did it roundbased, so no respawning after death.
That aside, I never did in in STO too, mostly because I didnt do much groundpvp. But since this is a debate, I had to voice my philosophical opinion about it. I wouldnt have much problems with spawncamping here, as I see STO Ground as low-skill to normal shooters in the first place(to compare them in the first place is strange for me). Also you get an advantage, as its killbased (and not round),so I would say its an exploit of the system. So the system is flawed, else there would be no exploiting.
And, of course, exploitation is the holy duty of every player, else there wouldnt be any need for fixes and progress
Enemy suppression, via any means, including spawn camping, is a valid tactic for winning a game or match decisively. but just because its a valid tactic doesn't make it a nice one, or very fair, or in the case of the camped team, fun.
Games should be fun, and generally speaking have a level of fair play. the term its self is mostly out of fps games too, especially ones were you only start with very basic equipment, so a team that's stacked up on equipment has little problem suppressing the spawn area of one that starts of with the most basic of stuff.
In this case it sounds like you could suppress the spawn point, and did, which essentially makes it spawn camping, which comes with a degree of unfun for the other team since well, pop in, go too move, have 8 people light you up, die, wash, rinse, repeat till end of match.
this is generally why spawn in points should be hard to camp, with multiple, typically well covered exit points, and the ability for the team to rally up before making a push out. poor point design will mean that the team is exposed as they spawn in, and basically have no chance of making any sort of push.
so again its a valid tactic, you can imagine why the other team would find it unfun, but if the level is designed that way, and you have to hold points, then what else are you suppoed too do, this isn't a fps, its a mmo
There are players,entire fleets even,who's sole aim is to get to the enemy's spawn point as quickly as possible to fight the initial encounters on their spawn point,so the can start spawn killing as soon as the first enemy player dies...
This sounds like 'superior tactics' to you?
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
trouble with any of these ideas of spawn campers is that the campers in question have all sorts of devices left, like mines for example or a radiation cloud or turrets and what not. these would also need to be accounted for.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
usually the worst part of the camp is that by the time you load, your dead, since the enemy sees you before you can even get your bearings, hence why its usually considered a skill less kill, might as well shoot a target dummy
this i know all too well from both sides, the latter was when i was new to shooters before it didnt interest me to shoot a person in the back, tool of a coward :P, these days i play smart then with skill, sometimes i can hit an enemy where they wouldnt suspect it and collapse the entire offensive with a merciless attack. the former does get annoying very quickly, but these days i just leave the game before giving any of these parasites any stat padding.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
As long as you win, yes.
sounds more like poor game design really, and id say its effective, not superior, its fairly basic, straight forward, and involves little skill once your on site, getting there first could be the hard part, depends on game.
Which tactic is superior/inferior always comes down to gamedesign
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
the stigma is that its cheap, requires no skill to kill a target that cant engage back, and generally comes with a fan fare of people chest pounding how awesome they are, and how, superior their tactics were.
superior tactics generally implies that some tactic at all was used by the opponent and it was defeated, or that the tactic used proved more effective then others, spawning in to get shot before your screen loads isn't such a thing, hence, effective, not superior.
Yes,it takes a lot of skill staying cloaked the whole match,waiting at a spawn point to pulsewave someone in the back as they respawn...or putting mines and transphasic bombs on the spawn point,killing eveyone instantly the moment they respawn.
In my experience,players who resort to 'tactics' like these are also more likely to use the 'log off/log on feature' to avoid getting killed.They also tend to use the 'broken skill of the month' quite a bit....
It's all fun and games till it's done to you,you reap what you sow.....
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Nah, that would be bad sportsmanship.
Yes its optional they each can choose to do it or not. There are many reasons why they do that. Usually they already won cause they beat your team back to a point you can't do nothing. So by then you have already lost. Then they are after kills and what ever thrill they get. While punishing the other team.
Best way to fix this is offer other spawn points. So you can choose so they can't do it.
This was one of the reasons why I quit doing PVP. I find it no longer fun which is why I stay out of those type places.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
1. Adopt the just "get it over with" mentality yourself and die 15 times, collect the rewards and queue up again and hope for better opponents.
2. Quit and take the penalty then go do something else (pve or farming) until the penalty expires.Tell the other team you will do this because if your team all quits then the match ends and no one gets the reward and the "let's just get it over with" and loot/point gather crowd is thwarted (of course your team mates get screwed too unless they want to "soldier on" by working short or going with option #1 or option #4 maybe. It's best to get an agreement ahead of time if you plan to do this if there is spawn camping.
3. Don't hit the respawn button until the other team moves away from the spawn point, you can usually see them standing around the repawn window, (tell them you will do this at the beginning of the match if there is spawn camping) and delay the scenario. This is my favorite way of thwarting the "lets just get it over with" crowd.
4. Try to "break out", i.e., tell your team mates to destroy themselves then all of you respawn at the same time, throw up a cover shield immeditately (hopefully you will have an engineer on your team) and try to fight your way out of the spawn point. ( I have found this to be the most sporting way of handling the situation and it can actually be quite fun)
5. Never spawn camp yourself, it only encourges it. Realize too that there are morons out there, and that annoying, stupid things are bound to happen occasionally and irritating things and inconsiderate people are just something that one will inevitably encounter from time to time and therefore train yourself not to care when it does. I have found this latter philosophy to be quite helpful in RL too, especially when driving in commute traffic.
an enemy team runs against our players, they cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag even with a sharp knife! so they are loosing more men per respawn then our team are loosing empty ammo mags and boxes. anyway i sneak in, distract them with a few hits at random, get their attention and then to chase me, team moves in for the kill and it ends up in the objective getting swamped but ignored and eventually in a ruthless fashion the enemy team gets beaten back and spawn campers paradise, nothing superior just a dirty distraction for a dirty cheap result again two teams with no skill.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
1. no gaurantees of that as the same morons the next match would still be around to stat pad again.
2. if there is no advantage in it in any event, and quiting is also a penalty in itself, then you should realize a head of time, note down @handlenames and not the toon names for ones to avoid. that way they show up, you know its not worth the effort.
3. thats a deceptive thing though, what you consider them moving away is another way for them to camp in more defensive out of reach locations, such as just behind the corner. now if your crazy enough and time it just right you could potentially shove those no skillers out the way, but on sto i cant see that happening as you need a direct los to activate certain abilities like grenades, however it can also work against you as well because the moment you show that mug of yours, even a tiny bit, your worm food that will likely poison the carrion birds.
4. that doesnt always work imo, one well place grenade in the spawn room, and all of the team will be down at a moments notice, i know because i used to do it when i first started, it maybe fun at first but it gets old fast. and it also means that with more teammates coming out those two players setup with their heavy weapons can just go on a lawn mowing expedition with their LMGs into the enemy spawn. there is no gaurantee the team would even be effectively, for example accidentally killing a teammate for failure to recognize your about to shoot or deliberatly gets in thew way to steal your kill or something.
5. that also doenst work, there is a limit to how much TRIBBLE a human mind can comprehend or accept before it either gets annoying enough or gets ignored. when it gets ignored the game isnt played any more, if it gets annoying there is a chance to use that negativity in rage and fuel it into a useful focus on an enemy as long as you dont get target fixation however.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.