So,to craft very rare Mk XII gear you need very rare mats and those mats are gather how?
via R&D pack that cost 1000 zen and you hope that you will get those mats or how else?
The reason is power creep. If you keep making reputations that's about 3 new powers per reputation (well 3 to space and 3 to ground). With 5 reputations that is about 15 additional traits. The new trait mechanic limits that number to five.
So while not realistic it will help with the power creep.
Instead, they add power creep everywhere else they can, ships, consoles, personal traits, kits, weapons, etc...
So,to craft very rare Mk XII gear you need very rare mats and those mats are gather how?
via R&D pack that cost 1000 zen and you hope that you will get those mats or how else?
I wish some of the lesser materiel you can do like in 10 or 100 packs for more time than 1 for 15 sec. That way I'm not sitting there clicking for an hour to build up some
My only complain is the time this will take to level up all schools without using Dilithium. I'm still on the fence if I'm actually going to use Dilithium to speed things up...I'm leaning on no for now and maybe yes when reaching higher levels.
By my calculations if you were to have all 5 slots opened and run the same 20 hour mission on all of them it would take you about 66 days to level one school from 0-max. This means you'll need one school at level 15 and three of them at level 5 to do this.
Basically, I'm thinking 10-12 months to level them all to max without using Dilithium and logging in once per day...
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
I have absolutely no idea why people are angry about losing the previous crafting system.
Nothing in the list, an I mean literally nothing, was worth crafting. Absolutely every weapon,
console, shield, etc. was inferior to some mission reward.
The old AEGIS-set was a bad joke by todays standards and those that were still around got automatically upgraded for free.
Yeah it sucks that it's just another dil sink but honestly, if you can craft stuff thats actually woth the dil and comparable to the fleet and rep gear then the new one actually has a right to exist unlike the old one.
The consoles were useful. Sure, you could get drops that were better, but it was a good, cheap way (pre-dil tax at least) of getting Mk XI blues. While some consoles you could get from missions as rewards, many you couldn't. Kits were the same, you could build yourself a good Mk X purple kit while you wait for a better kit. Likewise, the weapons, while far from the greatest, were pretty solid. Aegis was a solid set at the time, usable from level 40 and good for using while you waited for the pieces to drop to make the Maco/Honour Guard/Omega set. More and more sets better than Aegis were introduced, and made them easy enough to get that noone would bother with the Aegis set anymore. Mk XII items were also added into the game, but the crafting remained untouched. Crafting was left behind the power creep and killed off by the dil tax.
Virtually everything produced from the new crafting is just as useless. Sure, now you can craft Mk XII items, and have a chance of a few unique mods, but I suspect more people will just go for the guaranteed Mk XII purple they want from Rep/Fleet stores. Given a couple of seasons, this new crafting will probably be left behind the power curve as well, and you'll get to tell people in the future that the updated Aegis Mk XII is a bad joke by the future's standards, that there's nothing worth spending the dil on to craft (plenty of people would argue that now), and how it has no right to exist because of it.
As for why people would be annoyed with losing all their crafting progress, it didn't take 10-20 minutes to reach max level for no effort; particular for those of us that did it early on. The materials had to come from somewhere, either you farmed them from the exploration clusters, bought them from the exchange, or eventually acquired through doffing. None of those options took 10-20 minutes. Even the fastest method, buying from the exchange didn't. The work simply was simply done beforehand; you had to of gotten that EC in the first place and someone had to of farmed those materials. The new one is more costly to force through quickly, but you can level it up in 10-20 minutes too, just as long as you had already done the work beforehand to allow that.
Then run 2 20hr missions... each day until I get one to 5...
My crafting will be max at some point. With very little cost to me. In the mean time I am collecting all the junk I need to craft stuffz as I play anyway. When my crafting is done I should have most of what I need to craft the stuff I want.
Which means you max out crafting without crafting anything...while it's easy and almost free, it doesn't sound either exiting or what a crafting system should look like.
You advance efficient and easy (6.000 XP/20h) by not crafting anything and you pretty much stand still if you do (measly 1-4 XP for each component). Shouldn't it logically be the other way around?
True, but unless they made the necessary high level crafting materials unbound, you will still need spend dilithium to obtain them for making high level crafted items.
Ship has sailed there though.. .its not like they don't charge D for every piece of fleet or rep gear in the game. Why should crafting be different. For crafting general junk and leveling you don't have to spend any D at all... which is in fact cheaper then the old system with all the unrep junk.
Which means you max out crafting without crafting anything...while it's easy and almost free, it doesn't sound either exiting or what a crafting system should look like.
You advance efficient and easy (6.000 XP/20h) by not crafting anything and you pretty much stand still if you do (measly 1-4 XP for each component). Shouldn't it logically be the other way around?
Well you do get 1200,1600,1800 ect when you craft actual vendor trash. With much shorter mission times. I mean you could complete 5-10 of those as you play in an evening and then start the 20hr before you log off in the slot. Once you have 3 slots it should be pretty easy to cycle them. I would think. Your point is valid enough though... ya just another Cryptic time gate that is designed to annoy people into spending there D.
Yeah, I am still lost on why the need to restrict reputation traits like they did, only to make them even more potent, and add in ever increasing power creep with everything else.
Kind of defeats the purpose does it not, trying to prevent so called power creep!!!
I like the rep changes... think it was needed and like the choices now. Lots of good traits so it does feel like a choice and that there is good selection for different builds.
Having said that... your right on the power creep. There reasoning does seem disingenuous when they power creep the heck out of the game at the same time... I guess what they meant was. They needed to control the Free/low cost power creep.
I wish there was a way to time that, because that is simply false.
I know I leveled one to max in around 30min. I was in no way rushing. Hard work, don't make me laugh to hard.
A blue doff as a reward seems dumb though... least they could have done is given us a few blue holo doffs instead of all the junk white ones... or one half decent purple with some good crafting traits. (a nice purple Reaserch doff for running the 20hr would have been nice).
So,to craft very rare Mk XII gear you need very rare mats and those mats are gather how?
via R&D pack that cost 1000 zen and you hope that you will get those mats or how else?
You get packages that contain rare or very rare mats from elite queues. Material depends on the queue.
What about getting us some R&D experience points for every DOFF mission completed? Of course in that specific field. Then the 20h thing wouldn't kill the hole R&D. Think about it .
Lol, the new system is more crafting than the old one ever was.
Old system: crafting score is only used to unlock more advanced items
New system: crafting score affects your rate of success on even lower-level items
Old system: no specialization
New system: 7 schools to level up in, limited slots encourage specializing
Old system: only set items can be crafted (just like a store)
New system: random modifiers exponentially increase diversity of crafted gear
Old system: Aegis and combat hortas are really only crafting-exclusive items
New system: various crafting-exclusive modifiers or special items
Old system: no progression once max score is reached
New system: advancement after level 15 continues to increase crafting performance
Sure, it takes time (or dilithium) to get through, but what crafting system doesn't? The advantages over the old system are so many, it's kind of ridiculous to reject it outright as 'not really crafting'. But I guess talk is cheap.
People just want to cry about something. They havent figured out that if youre really upset with something to the point of complaining about every detail. You should probably walk away.
From my point of view. The Crafting System is actually something I will be jumping into. Even though the past two iterations of it. I had absolutely no interest in.
FYI, one 3 minute visit to patrol the Pellme system near Vulcan nets you all the magnesite you need for a week's worth of running that 20 hour cooldown. Just visit the space map, scan and leave.
Eh for someone like me who could care less for the most part about crafting junk. I am fine with the system.
I can run a 20hr mission once...
Then run 2 20hr missions... each day until I get one to 5...
My crafting will be max at some point. With very little cost to me. In the mean time I am collecting all the junk I need to craft stuffz as I play anyway. When my crafting is done I should have most of what I need to craft the stuff I want.
The only people this is going to cost anything at all in terms of D are the impatient ones. I see no issues there.
Cryptic does a good job of allowing you to play and have all the toys for free in STO. ALL of them. The only reason to ever Pay any $ is to speed things along.
A jug fills drop by drop. Relax folks the "Dilithium tax" is only for the the weak, if you have self restraint the only things that should cost you anything are the nice toys that require a token amount in the end.
The finish now though... is sort of nice if you are the type that logs in once a day and that's it. If your an hour or two short of a finish you can now speed it up and start the next one and log out. The amount of D does drop as the timer ticks.
Within a few hours we had people at Level 15 just by spamming that "finish now" button on the 20hr mission. And already we are seeing the first MK12 VRs sold millions of EC and cornering the market. And by the time normal players get to end-game, the Exchange will be so flooded with these goods, they will be next-to-worthless.
So GOOD JOB CRYPTIC!
What else were they going to do with the roughly 1.9 million dilithium it takes to get a single school to level 15? If you can afford it and it is a fun gameplay style for you...why not get into the business of being a space arms dealer? They did exist in Star Trek!
That stated, they would need to sell AT LEAST 285 million EC worth of goods and services to break even on the initial investment, which does not strike me as the wisest course of action. But hey, I bought 40 keys last night, so what do I know?
I know I leveled one to max in around 30min. I was in no way rushing. Hard work, don't make me laugh to hard.
A blue doff as a reward seems dumb though... least they could have done is given us a few blue holo doffs instead of all the junk white ones... or one half decent purple with some good crafting traits. (a nice purple Reasearch doff for running the 20hr would have been nice).
On tribble before the last patch the quality of the officer used effected the outcome, so you could run the 8K mission with a purple and come away with 23K exp.
But, now on holodeck, it is a flat 6K no matter what you use or if you crit.
On tribble before the last patch the quality of the officer used effected the outcome, so you could run the 8K mission with a purple and come away with 23K exp.
But, now on holodeck, it is a flat 6K no matter what you use or if you crit.
Are you kidding? The original was closest we ever got to real crafting. You had to take a regular / common item and upgrade it with technology.
This new Crafting is nothing but a lousy Reputation system. Materials are the Marks, and you invest in a mission that can be fast with low xp or 1 day with large amounts of experience. (Or spend a massive amounts of Dilithum to magically learn everything and get to end-game gear in hours. :rolleyes:) And you unlock "stores" to get items.
Crafting is when you want to create an item, from scratch, or enhance an existing item. This system isn't it by a mile. We told them to look up the best crafting systems, and they ignored us. All because they wanted more DL tax. They don't care about us one iota, they just care about squeezing the lemon til it's dry and move on to the next MMO. That's what PWE does.
I"m going to have to disagree. While upgrading items is a 'crafting'-like thing to do, the old system only did this in the most simple and superficial way.
In practice, you couldn't take most items you got as drops and upgrade them. Only certain items of certain marks, that, prior to the Ferengi appearing on Memory Alpha, were going for ridiculous prices on the exchange. White-quality items that were valuable only because they were the only way to craft. You couldn't modify any items but these artificially-valuable ones.
Schematics were a nice, albeit still superficial, step. It made the system feel more like crafting without changing the underlying mechanics (buy something, then use it to buy something related you will actually use).
Now? You can really make a torpedo from scratch by crafting the required components. You can also trade those components, which are used in some other (but not all) crafting recipes. It keeps the system immersively 'crafting-like' while actually delivering useful crafting mechanics (skill-based quality chances, etc).
In my opinion, the new system still pays attention to making it feel like crafting, just in a slightly different way from the old one. But it delivers on so many deeper levels, that complaining that you can't 'upgrade' a handful of white even-mark items or use a standi-in 'schematic' item is just plain trying to be disappointed.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
It's shocking, spent time at memory alpha crafting and now I have to start all over again. The way some of these cool downs ate going when you do certain projects they last 20 hours, ypu can of course spend 17k of you dil....
The way this game has gone it reminds me of games you play of the iPad and you build your castle and town up from lvl 1 and with lvl one you have a small cool down. Next level is larger an so on to you vet to the final lvl which is just stupid. Yes we can get the latest gear. But not before spending a billion hours grinding your guts out once again. P/w lost a day one player. Throwing in the towel as I'm sick of the TRIBBLE your making a great franchise into.
I"m going to have to disagree. While upgrading items is a 'crafting'-like thing to do, the old system only did this in the most simple and superficial way.
In practice, you couldn't take most items you got as drops and upgrade them. Only certain items of certain marks, that, prior to the Ferengi appearing on Memory Alpha, were going for ridiculous prices on the exchange. White-quality items that were valuable only because they were the only way to craft. You couldn't modify any items but these artificially-valuable ones.
Schematics were a nice, albeit still superficial, step. It made the system feel more like crafting without changing the underlying mechanics (buy something, then use it to buy something related you will actually use).
Now? You can really make a torpedo from scratch by crafting the required components. You can also trade those components, which are used in some other (but not all) crafting recipes. It keeps the system immersively 'crafting-like' while actually delivering useful crafting mechanics (skill-based quality chances, etc).
In my opinion, the new system still pays attention to making it feel like crafting, just in a slightly different way from the old one. But it delivers on so many deeper levels, that complaining that you can't 'upgrade' a handful of white even-mark items or use a standi-in 'schematic' item is just plain trying to be disappointed.
I do not disagree with what you said in the slightest.
Yes, the system even in the original wasn't really crafting. But its more involved than it is now. Right now, the majority of players are doing the 20 hour missions or rushing though the content by paying with a ton of Dilithum. How is that crafting? They are like some rich kid paying the instructors through the semester without having even participating in class and actually learning. But if we actually craft the items, it's much slower and unrewarding as the items we craft are junk.
And these new crafting components aren't even crafting either. How can we make a torpedo out of two components? Where is the Torpedo Shell? Where is the Warhead? Where is the targeting guidance system? The fuel for the thrusters? My gawd, it's so terrible its like Voyager pulling out photon torpedoes out of thin air.
What people wanted is crafting to feel like crafting! Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, SWG all had great crafting systems, but in comparison, STO's is just some lazy George Jetson work. At his rate, my pointy finger is going to get tired pushing that one button all the time. :rolleyes:
So they left the R&D system as it started, a 3-4 month grind to a dilithium powered slot machine.
No thanks, I'm out
Also what is up with with the huge number of schools and why should I have to level up multiple schools to build something from 1 school? Excessive grind much!
So far I put in 2 on the R&D. My Fed and Romulan to see what happens. It hadn't charged me Dil yet. However later it could. Only thing I saw was Dil to speed up the 20 hour count down. But I can wait that out, just like the Rep. Its on a 20 hour as well for the bigger exp gain.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
What else were they going to do with the roughly 1.9 million dilithium it takes to get a single school to level 15? If you can afford it and it is a fun gameplay style for you...why not get into the business of being a space arms dealer? They did exist in Star Trek!
That stated, they would need to sell AT LEAST 285 million EC worth of goods and services to break even on the initial investment, which does not strike me as the wisest course of action. But hey, I bought 40 keys last night, so what do I know?
Buying keys is not dumb. Opening lock boxes is dumb. You can make a lot of EC selling keys or go bankrupt trying to get a 1% drop rate ship.
On tribble before the last patch the quality of the officer used effected the outcome, so you could run the 8K mission with a purple and come away with 23K exp.
But, now on holodeck, it is a flat 6K no matter what you use or if you crit.
6k & 7k...
So if you're running 5, you could be looking at 30-35k.
Comments
I believe they drop from elite queues.
Instead, they add power creep everywhere else they can, ships, consoles, personal traits, kits, weapons, etc...
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I got a few in an elite borg STF.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
By my calculations if you were to have all 5 slots opened and run the same 20 hour mission on all of them it would take you about 66 days to level one school from 0-max. This means you'll need one school at level 15 and three of them at level 5 to do this.
Basically, I'm thinking 10-12 months to level them all to max without using Dilithium and logging in once per day...
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
The consoles were useful. Sure, you could get drops that were better, but it was a good, cheap way (pre-dil tax at least) of getting Mk XI blues. While some consoles you could get from missions as rewards, many you couldn't. Kits were the same, you could build yourself a good Mk X purple kit while you wait for a better kit. Likewise, the weapons, while far from the greatest, were pretty solid. Aegis was a solid set at the time, usable from level 40 and good for using while you waited for the pieces to drop to make the Maco/Honour Guard/Omega set. More and more sets better than Aegis were introduced, and made them easy enough to get that noone would bother with the Aegis set anymore. Mk XII items were also added into the game, but the crafting remained untouched. Crafting was left behind the power creep and killed off by the dil tax.
Virtually everything produced from the new crafting is just as useless. Sure, now you can craft Mk XII items, and have a chance of a few unique mods, but I suspect more people will just go for the guaranteed Mk XII purple they want from Rep/Fleet stores. Given a couple of seasons, this new crafting will probably be left behind the power curve as well, and you'll get to tell people in the future that the updated Aegis Mk XII is a bad joke by the future's standards, that there's nothing worth spending the dil on to craft (plenty of people would argue that now), and how it has no right to exist because of it.
As for why people would be annoyed with losing all their crafting progress, it didn't take 10-20 minutes to reach max level for no effort; particular for those of us that did it early on. The materials had to come from somewhere, either you farmed them from the exploration clusters, bought them from the exchange, or eventually acquired through doffing. None of those options took 10-20 minutes. Even the fastest method, buying from the exchange didn't. The work simply was simply done beforehand; you had to of gotten that EC in the first place and someone had to of farmed those materials. The new one is more costly to force through quickly, but you can level it up in 10-20 minutes too, just as long as you had already done the work beforehand to allow that.
Which means you max out crafting without crafting anything...while it's easy and almost free, it doesn't sound either exiting or what a crafting system should look like.
You advance efficient and easy (6.000 XP/20h) by not crafting anything and you pretty much stand still if you do (measly 1-4 XP for each component). Shouldn't it logically be the other way around?
Ship has sailed there though.. .its not like they don't charge D for every piece of fleet or rep gear in the game. Why should crafting be different. For crafting general junk and leveling you don't have to spend any D at all... which is in fact cheaper then the old system with all the unrep junk.
Well you do get 1200,1600,1800 ect when you craft actual vendor trash. With much shorter mission times. I mean you could complete 5-10 of those as you play in an evening and then start the 20hr before you log off in the slot. Once you have 3 slots it should be pretty easy to cycle them. I would think. Your point is valid enough though... ya just another Cryptic time gate that is designed to annoy people into spending there D.
I like the rep changes... think it was needed and like the choices now. Lots of good traits so it does feel like a choice and that there is good selection for different builds.
Having said that... your right on the power creep. There reasoning does seem disingenuous when they power creep the heck out of the game at the same time... I guess what they meant was. They needed to control the Free/low cost power creep.
I know I leveled one to max in around 30min. I was in no way rushing. Hard work, don't make me laugh to hard.
A blue doff as a reward seems dumb though... least they could have done is given us a few blue holo doffs instead of all the junk white ones... or one half decent purple with some good crafting traits. (a nice purple Reaserch doff for running the 20hr would have been nice).
You get packages that contain rare or very rare mats from elite queues. Material depends on the queue.
People just want to cry about something. They havent figured out that if youre really upset with something to the point of complaining about every detail. You should probably walk away.
From my point of view. The Crafting System is actually something I will be jumping into. Even though the past two iterations of it. I had absolutely no interest in.
[URL="[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/am8t4g.jpg[/IMG]"]
What else were they going to do with the roughly 1.9 million dilithium it takes to get a single school to level 15? If you can afford it and it is a fun gameplay style for you...why not get into the business of being a space arms dealer? They did exist in Star Trek!
That stated, they would need to sell AT LEAST 285 million EC worth of goods and services to break even on the initial investment, which does not strike me as the wisest course of action. But hey, I bought 40 keys last night, so what do I know?
On tribble before the last patch the quality of the officer used effected the outcome, so you could run the 8K mission with a purple and come away with 23K exp.
But, now on holodeck, it is a flat 6K no matter what you use or if you crit.
I"m going to have to disagree. While upgrading items is a 'crafting'-like thing to do, the old system only did this in the most simple and superficial way.
In practice, you couldn't take most items you got as drops and upgrade them. Only certain items of certain marks, that, prior to the Ferengi appearing on Memory Alpha, were going for ridiculous prices on the exchange. White-quality items that were valuable only because they were the only way to craft. You couldn't modify any items but these artificially-valuable ones.
Schematics were a nice, albeit still superficial, step. It made the system feel more like crafting without changing the underlying mechanics (buy something, then use it to buy something related you will actually use).
Now? You can really make a torpedo from scratch by crafting the required components. You can also trade those components, which are used in some other (but not all) crafting recipes. It keeps the system immersively 'crafting-like' while actually delivering useful crafting mechanics (skill-based quality chances, etc).
In my opinion, the new system still pays attention to making it feel like crafting, just in a slightly different way from the old one. But it delivers on so many deeper levels, that complaining that you can't 'upgrade' a handful of white even-mark items or use a standi-in 'schematic' item is just plain trying to be disappointed.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The way this game has gone it reminds me of games you play of the iPad and you build your castle and town up from lvl 1 and with lvl one you have a small cool down. Next level is larger an so on to you vet to the final lvl which is just stupid. Yes we can get the latest gear. But not before spending a billion hours grinding your guts out once again. P/w lost a day one player. Throwing in the towel as I'm sick of the TRIBBLE your making a great franchise into.
I do not disagree with what you said in the slightest.
Yes, the system even in the original wasn't really crafting. But its more involved than it is now. Right now, the majority of players are doing the 20 hour missions or rushing though the content by paying with a ton of Dilithum. How is that crafting? They are like some rich kid paying the instructors through the semester without having even participating in class and actually learning. But if we actually craft the items, it's much slower and unrewarding as the items we craft are junk.
And these new crafting components aren't even crafting either. How can we make a torpedo out of two components? Where is the Torpedo Shell? Where is the Warhead? Where is the targeting guidance system? The fuel for the thrusters? My gawd, it's so terrible its like Voyager pulling out photon torpedoes out of thin air.
What people wanted is crafting to feel like crafting! Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, SWG all had great crafting systems, but in comparison, STO's is just some lazy George Jetson work. At his rate, my pointy finger is going to get tired pushing that one button all the time. :rolleyes:
No thanks, I'm out
Also what is up with with the huge number of schools and why should I have to level up multiple schools to build something from 1 school? Excessive grind much!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Buying keys is not dumb. Opening lock boxes is dumb. You can make a lot of EC selling keys or go bankrupt trying to get a 1% drop rate ship.
6k & 7k...
So if you're running 5, you could be looking at 30-35k.