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Grind is fine, but timegating makes this game a miserable experience
ericshatner
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I've played a lot of MMOs over the last decade or so, and as such I've missed out on a lot of the rest of what computer gaming has to offer.
Recently, facing into another summer event grindfest and reading about the grindtacular new crafting system, I decided to look outside the MMO genre and catch up on a few years games. (The steam sale helped a lot in this regard).
I have to say I have really enjoyed my experience so far, but what I realised is that even good non-MMOs have grind, it's just how they deal with it that is much better. They don't use timegating.
Now I realise that the F2P model requires inconvenience to be built into the game so that people are encouraged to pay for things to bypass these hurdles. However, I am a gold subscriber, so I am paying for this game, so frankly I don't think that I should have to deal with these make-work hurdles.
STO's F2P model is one of the best, most of the content is completely free and much of the rest is grindable (which is a good thing), but please, please, please can Gold Subscribers or some other method be found to completely bypass all timegating. I want to be able to play the game I want to play, when I want to play it just like regular computer games, and if I am willing to pay to do that shouldn't that be the best system.
The reality is that if something isn't done about these processes I will just drift off to other games which allow me to play them at *my* convenience and not the developers.
This is a casual game that you can't play casually if you want access to all of the content and the timegating starts to make the game feel like a chore. There is no way I am touching the new crafting system as it stands, and likely I, and I am sure many others who pay, will drift away too.
Recently, facing into another summer event grindfest and reading about the grindtacular new crafting system, I decided to look outside the MMO genre and catch up on a few years games. (The steam sale helped a lot in this regard).
I have to say I have really enjoyed my experience so far, but what I realised is that even good non-MMOs have grind, it's just how they deal with it that is much better. They don't use timegating.
Now I realise that the F2P model requires inconvenience to be built into the game so that people are encouraged to pay for things to bypass these hurdles. However, I am a gold subscriber, so I am paying for this game, so frankly I don't think that I should have to deal with these make-work hurdles.
STO's F2P model is one of the best, most of the content is completely free and much of the rest is grindable (which is a good thing), but please, please, please can Gold Subscribers or some other method be found to completely bypass all timegating. I want to be able to play the game I want to play, when I want to play it just like regular computer games, and if I am willing to pay to do that shouldn't that be the best system.
The reality is that if something isn't done about these processes I will just drift off to other games which allow me to play them at *my* convenience and not the developers.
This is a casual game that you can't play casually if you want access to all of the content and the timegating starts to make the game feel like a chore. There is no way I am touching the new crafting system as it stands, and likely I, and I am sure many others who pay, will drift away too.
Post edited by ericshatner on
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The purpose of the timegate is so that they can release unfinished content and hope that they get it finished before players realize it is not done.
And to keep you coming back every day to fill sliders.
You are in the minority and have placed yourself there by choice. Your willingness to give them money is absolutely up to you.
The mechanism in place shouldnt be altered considering the majority, and those who are actually keeping this game afloat, are Players playing for Free. Without the current design, this game would of sunk soon after they went F2P.
The game isnt even that grindy. Theres very few things in this game that takes a great deal of time.
Frankly, if all I want to do gets done in 1 hour and I can't do more, then I log off. But really, there is so much to do in STO that the gates are not the problem.
All games will have a form of time gate. It keeps you playing and earn the reward. Instead of here press this "I win" "Instant Gear" buttons.
I'm a causal player that plays at most 4 hours per week. Even I can get to see most content. I've done 2 full reps, part of a third, every solo mission. However I hadn't done STFs, but I could if I want. Not doing them was my choice. I got burned out from a pervious game and don't feel like dealing with others in a group.
The developers has to create some form of content to keep the players going until they create new content. They can't help it some are so addicted they play for hours on end to see how quick they can burn through it. This goes for all games consul or computer.
Sounds like to me you gotten burned or bored with the game. Take a break and come back when something new comes out. So you don't force yourself to keep playing and start to hate playing.
To me the time gate isn't a problem. My problem is I don't have enough time to log on from my life activities.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
That's a misnomer. They're not playing for free. They're just not paying a sub. They are spending money on the game.
The game is all grind. It's just not time consuming. You log in, do a couple of things, send some DOFFs off. And log off. That's how they've structured it. But it's allllll grind.
so what you doing tomorrow and the next day and the next, no need to play sto you've done all you grinding and have all the rep and weapons you need and there's nothing special going on so what's the point of logging in, might as well leave it till the next update or event when there's something new to do.
and why should you have to play the game you have paid handsomely just for the privilege not to have to, is that a bone china plate you want all you goodies handed to you on or a silver one.
or perhaps its not the game your fed up but just waiting a day to hand in your marks you've done all your mad dash grind and got all the marks you need to get to tier 5 but you would rather be doing something else in that two minutes it takes handing in you marks for today.
did it not occur to you to just play enough of the grind to earn the marks you need for that day then go and play the game you want to play, or here's a radical idea, don't play that stuff at all for a few days it wont run away, go and do the stuff you want to do and when you are ready come back and do a bit more, there's no time limit on how long it takes you to get to tier 5.
and if you've got a few years worth of games from steam and you are really enjoying it what are you worrying about sto for surly you have enough stuff to do for a long while to come without having to play sto at all.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
take a tip if you want to bypass STF`s or any other rep content just raise some birds at the next summer event or winter epohh at the winter one and claim the marks you need for any reps you need.
I got enough marks just from raising birds this year to take me right from tier 0 to tier 5 without touching any of the 8472 rep content with all my characters.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
The daily dil cap on the other hand is the worst timegate in the game. I know its necessary (for cryptic at least) because auf the dil-zen conversion but it still sucks that I have to wait several days only to gain access to rewards I ALREADY EARNED by playing the game.
Rep rewards are not, or IMO should not, be an end in themselves. The end is to enjoy playing the game, isn't it? With near-zero content locked behind timegates, and no requirement to have rep gear to successfully complete even "elite" missions, I actually don't see how STO could be more open than it is.
Being slightly obsessive myself, I can understand the feeling of "pressure" to complete the reps, which the timegate regulates. But that's entirely self-induced pressure.
IMO, the timegates are a little bit of a social service; combined with the daily marks, they encourage a playstyle of short daily bursts rather than all-night / weekend benders. Sounds a lot healthier if you ask me...
oh look, another entitlement claim. move it along now.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I mean really...
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Not everyone has regular gaming time. An event like the Risa event which is both time limited and time gated means that you have to manage to find regular time 25 times over 40 days. For me that doesn't suit at all.
Part of it is because I don't want to prioritise STO these days because I am a little burnt out. I want to be able to go days or weeks without logging in and be able to do as much or as little as I want when I am able to or when I have bouts of enthusiasm, which still does happen.
So for example, you are right, getting marks is easy, but having to log in every day to run the rep projects is a chore, you know, like a job. It's not fun, and is in fact a silly hurdle. When you are feeling just average about the game these things annoy you more. They were always an inconvenience, but now they are an actual impediment to fun. I've already done the work, now I want the result of that labour, instead I have to do this completely unfun other thing for 20 days (which is 20 logins which might be months for me).
In the Risa case, the Horgahn hunt and the Risa Tropical Eggs is the case that annoys me most. I really loved being on Risa the first few days, I am a huge fan of the environment and think Cryptic do a great job there every year, and I would gladly have hunted Eggs and turned them into birds for days at the beginning, but I was limited in what I was allowed to do and now weeks later I am just sick and tired of the constant logging in and logging out of characters.
The current system makes logging in a chore. They are not getting extra money out of me for this system, just causing me needless hassle.
As I stated, I totally understand why this system is there for those players that aren't paying, but for subscribers or people who would like to be able to bypass timegating though the C-Store, it just make so much sense to me to give us the option of opting out of this purposefully designed awkwardness.
The largest grind in the game is the starbase, and one that I have wholly embraced, even there now that there are umpteen fleets that have completed rep, there should now be an option to remove the time gating.
I actually think STO is a great game as I hope is obvious. I have no complaints about balance or power creep etc (they are working as intended and as you should expect), but I would like to be able to play the game at my convenience and I am willing to pay to do so. (For those of you who feel I am entitled, I am sure if you paid for your beer you'd expect it to be cold and in a glass even though you didn't specifically pay for those things. Paying for things does give you certain entitlements. In this case I am paying for a fun star trek experience, but it is wrapped up in the cold corpse of a dead Ferengi artificially making me go through hoops to get at the fun).
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
well said that person.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
want to go and do somthing else or cant spare the time no problem, if you cant manage the 10 minutes per character to run the summer rep project its not compulsory and you only end up with a ship at the end that compared to others i`m sure you have isnt that great.
same with the Horgahn hunt and the Risa Tropical Eggs all you will end up with is some marks of your choice that you can just as easilly pick up else where in game at your lessure.
i just cant see what your problem is.
you knew full well when you paid your subscription what entitlements or perks that gave you and you knew full well that bypassing event timegates wasn't one of them, if you wasn't happy with what you got for your subscription you should not have subscribed in the first place, making unreasonable demands now wont get you anywhere.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Heck I have grinded for well over a year on those types, and still have never achieved the specific shiny due to RNG's.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing
Well played, sir. P.T. Barnum would be proud, you suckered me for four paragraphs into thinking this was something other than just another entitlement thread before dropping the charade.
Got cheese with that whine?
So this is a case of "I am a sub so im privelaged and thus better then the average player"
Dont fall in love with the door handle on the way out , the game was here before you and will continue on after you this is a matter of fact.
You either choose to play or not personally the devs have done a realy good job ( Except for Tovan Khev he must DIE!! ) and this game is one if not the THE best F2P out there.
If you really not happy playing just quit dont come on here whining how your so entitled just because your a gold member.
Its up to you whether you play or not and pay or not
Anyways thats my 2 cents
For those of you who think that the world is black and white and that all economic decisions are straightforwardly solvable, I ask you to think again.
Cryptic has something I want, a pretty decent Star Trek experience that importantly there is no close alternative to. However they also do things a way that delivers me disutility. One of the ways to improve this equation is to provide feedback in the hope that others will agree and developers will see it and perhaps over time alter their processes.
Because I have paid for the game, I feel that yes that does entitle me to mention it to show that I am a genuine supporter of the product. If I was F2P I wouldn't think I had a leg to stand on because I would have been getting something for nothing.
I feel that the thread was more than an 'entitled whiner leaving the game thread', because I took the time to think about the situation and provide some ideas on how it could be improved. This is called constructive feedback. I chose the forums as a way to deliver this message because we are told that the developers read the forums and I had (naively) thought that perhaps others might feel like me too.
Regardless of whether I stop paying, playing, take a break or log in daily for the rest of my life the essence of my thought remains perfectly coherent, though I am sure it is flawed:
If timegating is a part of the F2P model as an incentive to get people to spread their playtime over a longer period so that they are more likely to buy something, why do those people who are non-F2P, whether they are Gold, lifetime or premium players have to be similarly constrained?
I am pro STO going F2P, I was here back in the dark days, I just want for those that have always been subscribers to actually be treated as non F2P.
Some obvious counterarguments (some of which others have mentioned already): Perhaps timegating isn't a purely F2P phenomenon? Perhaps there are a tiny number of subscribers so there is no point in implementing a system like this? Perhaps the number of lifetime accounts is so massive that there is a huge disincentive to providing any more benefits to Gold subscribers?
I'd just really like to know and I am genuinely interested in hearing thoughts from people who are still willing to talk about the phenomenon without resorting to pigeonholing the person who brought it up.
everybody is differant and enjoy differant things, i think the summer and winter events are terrific and when they are running i am usually there, all other parts of the game i usually play are put on hold.
i think the timegated parts are just perfect and add longevity to the events and give me a good excuse to keep coming back till they are completed, not that i need much excuse.
i also enjoy the smaller events like the anniversary event, crystalline entity and mirror incurtion.
there are many other parts of the game that i enjoy also but i really look forward to these kind of events as they add a structure to the game that would not be there otherwise.
if it wasnt for events like these occuring throughout the year there would be nothing to make you take a break from your usual routine, especially with the summer and winter events i always look on them as a holiday from my usual stuff and when they are over i am happy and refreshed and ready to return to my normal routine.
if you dont like these events i dont much care i like them just the way the are, i just think its a little sad and I feel sorry for you, if you are not playing them to the fullest you are missing out a big part of the fun that star trek online is and i pity you for not seeing this.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.