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Posted this on steam discussion, and feel like I'll post it here too.
syfyguy64
Member Posts: 43 Arc User
I was buzzing around Ker'rat, using my poorly built Raptor from the giveaway last summer, and I found a Federation Cruiser, stargazer class, and thought I could sneak up on him easily, and take him out in a minute or less.
We continued fighting for almost 20 minutes before I used the holographic wall, and flew off, calling it a draw. This is what PVP should be. Long and drawn out battles that rely on you being clever with your BOff's, healing yourself and obscuring enemies (the feddie) and using tactical and debuffs on the enemy (Me). I could not get him killed, not at all. I got close, but then he used aux2hull, and I think a masked energy signature that made him untargetable to me.
This is fair and balanced pvp, not the fake pvp we have now, which is what happens at ker'rat usually. A BoP decloaks after using BOff's, and attacks a cruiser from behind where the newer level 50's keep their MK IX's or X's. Completely unfair, and just uncanon. All that needs to happen though is to debuff boffs a bit, and make cloaking unable to do anything at all, except fly w/o being detected. Then pvp will be fun, and long TNG battles will happen.
We continued fighting for almost 20 minutes before I used the holographic wall, and flew off, calling it a draw. This is what PVP should be. Long and drawn out battles that rely on you being clever with your BOff's, healing yourself and obscuring enemies (the feddie) and using tactical and debuffs on the enemy (Me). I could not get him killed, not at all. I got close, but then he used aux2hull, and I think a masked energy signature that made him untargetable to me.
This is fair and balanced pvp, not the fake pvp we have now, which is what happens at ker'rat usually. A BoP decloaks after using BOff's, and attacks a cruiser from behind where the newer level 50's keep their MK IX's or X's. Completely unfair, and just uncanon. All that needs to happen though is to debuff boffs a bit, and make cloaking unable to do anything at all, except fly w/o being detected. Then pvp will be fun, and long TNG battles will happen.
Post edited by syfyguy64 on
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Uh, what? I'm pretty sure that's the canonical tactic for a BoP. And the proper place to keep IX and X garbage is in the garbage can, not your ship. Vendor that rubbish and go get some cheap XIs from the Exchange.
The OP has witnessed the OTHER side of the coin, one which many don't like any better than the outcome he complains about, that of being vaped in 5 seconds. Besides, there's plenty of canonical vaping.
Also in my experiance, a balanced cruiser, that is not 100% oriented towards offense, will most certainly shrug off the vaper.
1)In what way would you nerf cloakers to bring balance to PVP?
2)Do you think that is all PVP needs?
3)Do you think that balance should revolve around 1vs1 battles or grp battles?
I hear your wish for "TNG like" battles in STO, but guess what, they are there. The most true to trek battles happen from level 1-20 with ships that only have 3-4 weapon slots.
Here is why: those battles are attrition based battles, which means you need to wear down the enemy which takes some time with only 2-3 beams and a torp. But once a facing is down, or the shields in general are weak, your torp start to shine.
Visualy the reduced number of beams do not spam the screen with 7-8 beams at once.
so, to answer my own questions to you, i'd do this:
1)in cloak you can't activate all your buffs...you need to be decloaked to activate attack patters, weapon abilities, EPtX, ... I mean that is how it works on ground anyway. Why those restrictions don't matter in space, who knows.
2)PVP needs much, much, much more than nerfing/buffing of specific builds or ships. It is a mess from the ground up. I could see PVP with pregenerated ships (similar to certain missions where you fly a certain preoutfitted and crewed ship)
This isn't only easy to balance, it offers the opportunity to create "historic trek battles" like chintoka, battle for DS9, maybe even Wolf 359 (no you would not get to control a borg cube, but rather the probes and spheres protecting it) ...
New game modes in general: imagine klingon scout force as a PVP map where you not only fight NPC ships, but also other players.
3)balance, should and never will be a 1vs1 issue in any RPG or MMORPG. This is a MMORPG, team efforts are more important than who is the better "Kirk"
Now, I believe that cloaking should be nerfed so it is only a feature to hide the crew from danger, or perhaps nerf certain reputation gear so they won't be abused, or buff mid tier Rear Admiral weapons so people who jump in to VA doesn't have to farm with crappy weapons for hours on end just to get some decent MK XII gear to sell on the exchange and buy better gear with money they already have.
I guess it is canon, but I don't believe that people who want to have a good time in a simple cruiser at Ker'rat should be mixed with the 25K DPS people.
Maybe there should be a limit of 5k DPS, which is already far too much and uneeded, but will make the game a bit more fair.
Indeed. I would guess the crew of the Oberth (Star Trek: The Search for Spock) agree with you that being shot from behind and being "vaped" by a BoP is unfair and uncanon. Hell, Kruge shot his gunner for "vaping" the Oberth, so he obviously agrees with you.
To be fair, the Grissom was....an Oberth. :P
I have one, I would not even remotely think about taking it into Ker'rat, unless I was drinking and wanted a laugh. I'd expect to be vaped.
On the other hand - Oberth at Wolf 359 - canon! BREAKING NEWS - WAS KRUGE'S BOP AS POWERFUL AS A BORG CUBE? MORE AT 11.
PvP in game has alot of issues - balance and otherwise. If you want fair and "balanced" PvP, you pretty much have to find a group of likeminded people, set your own rules for what can and cannot be used, and do private matches. I expect random PvP to have some pretty OP setups, people who actually PvP, and don't just dabble, spend oodles of zen, dilithium, fleet marks, rep marks, lobi, and ec to build very specific builds. Best not to worry about such things (plus, if you do manage to survive the vape, and kill them, more reason to feel good). It's almost never anything personal.
I would not honestly expect ships to just instantly vaporize themselves when I decloak. That would be no fun for anyone, including me.
Edit: That would be a cool PvP accolade though. "Warlord - Your Bird of Prey destroyed an Oberth Science Vessel in Kerrat". Then I could walk around with the title of "Lord", like Kruge. Now, NPCs refer to me as "my lord".
My fleet B'rel would like to think it is stronger than a Borg cube.
The best feeling and most fun I can have in my Bird of Prey is when I'm flying through the debris of an exploded Federation cruiser I just Vaped and narrowly missing getting hit by his warp core breach.
The devs really need to replace the Probes with Borg Shuttles, the SPheres with Probes, and the Cubes with Spheres, Tactical Cubes with Cubes and Diamonds, and B'Gers with Tactical Cubes. Then at least it may become almost believable. (You would still be able to solo cubes, but at least they'd last a bit longer).