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PvE - Help with bonus stacking & ground combat (gah!)
kamatsudash
Member Posts: 36 Arc User
Hi,
1) Do all bonuses from items stack? (specifically ship consoles)
Asking as I'm wondering if all bonuses on ship consoles will stack - I know that the resist X% consoles seem to stack, but what about the weapon damage bonus consoles? And how would it work?
So say I had a console that gave +16% beam damage and another console that gave +10% beam damage... would they both apply, or just the highest one? And if both apply... would it be for +25% bonus, or +15% then +10% on the new total (or vice-versa)?
2) + beam damage consoles, these work for all Beam Array's right, doesn't matter what type of damage they do? (talking about the beam weapons that have 250 degree firing arc)
So if I say had a phazer beam array and poloron beam array, they would both benefit from a +beam damage% console right? Whereas if I used a +phazer damage% console, only the phazer beam would benefit from it.
3) How come all the shiny torpedo's that are being sold on the AH seem to have worse dps than the crappy green photon torpedo's that dropped in some mission?
I've been looking at trying to buy cheap upgrades for weapons and such, but when I compare all the green & blue 'cheap' torpedo's on thr AH for my level... they all deal less damage and less dps than the lower grade green photon torp's I currently have ( ie I'm using green mk V torp's, and the one's on the ah are mk VI's and above)
is it because ppl are buying them for the proc chances and using dam,age specific console buffs to counter the lower damage?
4) Why is it in ground combat my captain draws so much aggro and hate, no matter what?
This is one of my biggest pet peeves in ground combat, that doesn't matter what I do... I seem to draw aggro from my away team virtually every time in ground combat.
- I have not invested in the +threat ground skill.
- I do not have any +thread ground traits equipped
- I do not use any skill or ability which does +threat
What I normally do is stand out of range of the enemy group, locate a target I want to focus on (medic type, or shielded type)... send in my npc followers... I then wait till they have at least attacked once, if not twice, then I'll move into range and start firing.
And guaranteed at this point virtually every single enemy will stop attacking my officers to attack me instead. At which time I end up playing Benny Hill with them as I dodge out of LOS, use shield wall, etc to give my shield time to recharge and/or shield recharge sills time to get off cooldown... as inevitably I loose shields and will die fast with everything targeting me.
This really, really, really makes me HATE ground combat. As it seems no matter what I do... I draw aggro and then spend more time trying to hide & heal and hoping my team kills them than actually fighting. That or lying with the "You have been defeated" popup while I wait for my team to dispose of the enemies.
I have tried sending everyone at shielded targets first, I have tried sending all at a weak target together, I have tried sending each officer at different targets... usually has same result - as soon as I get in range and fire, close to everything targets me.
- All ground away members (including me) have around the same dps weapons, same shield strength, around same armor level's..
- Weapons are sitting at around 103 dps
- shields are 332 hp or so
- using energy dampening armor. iirc they are all around 60/60 kinetic/energy level.
It just baffles me why I keep drawing aggro no matter what... and wondering what I might be doing wrong, or what I could do to try and make ground combat a better experience.
1) Do all bonuses from items stack? (specifically ship consoles)
Asking as I'm wondering if all bonuses on ship consoles will stack - I know that the resist X% consoles seem to stack, but what about the weapon damage bonus consoles? And how would it work?
So say I had a console that gave +16% beam damage and another console that gave +10% beam damage... would they both apply, or just the highest one? And if both apply... would it be for +25% bonus, or +15% then +10% on the new total (or vice-versa)?
2) + beam damage consoles, these work for all Beam Array's right, doesn't matter what type of damage they do? (talking about the beam weapons that have 250 degree firing arc)
So if I say had a phazer beam array and poloron beam array, they would both benefit from a +beam damage% console right? Whereas if I used a +phazer damage% console, only the phazer beam would benefit from it.
3) How come all the shiny torpedo's that are being sold on the AH seem to have worse dps than the crappy green photon torpedo's that dropped in some mission?
I've been looking at trying to buy cheap upgrades for weapons and such, but when I compare all the green & blue 'cheap' torpedo's on thr AH for my level... they all deal less damage and less dps than the lower grade green photon torp's I currently have ( ie I'm using green mk V torp's, and the one's on the ah are mk VI's and above)
is it because ppl are buying them for the proc chances and using dam,age specific console buffs to counter the lower damage?
4) Why is it in ground combat my captain draws so much aggro and hate, no matter what?
This is one of my biggest pet peeves in ground combat, that doesn't matter what I do... I seem to draw aggro from my away team virtually every time in ground combat.
- I have not invested in the +threat ground skill.
- I do not have any +thread ground traits equipped
- I do not use any skill or ability which does +threat
What I normally do is stand out of range of the enemy group, locate a target I want to focus on (medic type, or shielded type)... send in my npc followers... I then wait till they have at least attacked once, if not twice, then I'll move into range and start firing.
And guaranteed at this point virtually every single enemy will stop attacking my officers to attack me instead. At which time I end up playing Benny Hill with them as I dodge out of LOS, use shield wall, etc to give my shield time to recharge and/or shield recharge sills time to get off cooldown... as inevitably I loose shields and will die fast with everything targeting me.
This really, really, really makes me HATE ground combat. As it seems no matter what I do... I draw aggro and then spend more time trying to hide & heal and hoping my team kills them than actually fighting. That or lying with the "You have been defeated" popup while I wait for my team to dispose of the enemies.
I have tried sending everyone at shielded targets first, I have tried sending all at a weak target together, I have tried sending each officer at different targets... usually has same result - as soon as I get in range and fire, close to everything targets me.
- All ground away members (including me) have around the same dps weapons, same shield strength, around same armor level's..
- Weapons are sitting at around 103 dps
- shields are 332 hp or so
- using energy dampening armor. iirc they are all around 60/60 kinetic/energy level.
It just baffles me why I keep drawing aggro no matter what... and wondering what I might be doing wrong, or what I could do to try and make ground combat a better experience.
Post edited by kamatsudash on
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Comments
3: Torpedoes are kind of a tricky thing. DPS isn't really a concern. Torpedoes are most often fired opportunistically, and in conjunction with a buff (High Yield, Spread). It's therefore generally more important to have high damage per torpedo than damage per second, since you want the torpedo to do a big spike when the target's shield drops. Quantum torpedoes are the most popular "standard" torpedo for this reason, they give good bang per shot without an excessive cooldown. Also, be aware that the game is a little weird in that it doesn't necessarily show the correct stats on space items when you are on the ground, and vice versa. Since most Exchange consoles are on ground maps (unless you're talking to a freighter), this can cause some confusion in buying ship items.
4: Until you learn to handle ground combat better, I would avoid weapons with any kind of AoE. Stick with single target weapons like compression pistols or high density rifles. If you spray fire in an AoE shot, every target you hit will aggro on you. Once you learn how to cope better and kill stuff quickly, then you can start running up and wiping whole groups with a couple pulsewave shots. Also, don't forget you have abilities on the ground, both from your captain and your kit. Learn them and use them, they are just as important as your gun. Also, crouching (C) gives you a 50% dodge bonus, but you take increased melee damage so stand up and back off if something closes in on you. Finally, position is important. Mind your surroundings and don't let them flank you.
2.) yes, if you use +beam consoles, then all beams regardless of energytype are enhanced. but keep in mind that +energytype-consoles give greater bonuses.
3.)With the torps it can be that your skilltree or your shipgear is calculated on you equipped torps, or that the modifier are vastly different.
4.) Your dps is simply higher then your BOs, since you fire far more often then they do.
1) I did see that the specific damage type bonuses were higher than general consoles, the big issue is they were also 2-4+ times the cost. I don't have that many EC, so have been relying on gear that drops or really, really cheap stuff on thr AH as I level.
I wanted to check on the bonuses as I wasn't sure how STO dealt with multiple consoles, or if +damage consoles even stacked... and because I had gotten 2 +bonus beam damage consoles drop... so had equipped them both, but wasn't sure if they would be both applying.
1a) I assume this also applies to things like +shield regen consoles as well? or +ship turn rate?
3) I admit I have my torp's on auto-fire... but since I found a +turn rate console that makes my cruiser turn very fast... They tend to fire fairly often and can still get shots off with my high yield torp BO skill when needed/wanted.
I was looking on the AH for cheap torpedo's to use while still leveling, but the different types and that they all apparently dealt less dps threw me. Thinking on it, I can see why dps isn't as relevant.. as I am mostly hitting with beams and not torp's (even with decent turn rate).
I'll def keep quantum torpedo's in mind when I next check the AH. Prolly won't be for a bit though, as I seem to mostly be doing fine in space combat (well, apart from certain npc ships which seem to be able to strip one facing shield in 1 go.... pfft!)
4) Pulsewave is AoE even on it's normal attack/ That could have been my problem then. My cap was using a pulsewave weapon that had dropped. I've recently switched that weapon to something else.. err, fires 1 shot and has a 3-shot aoe/multi-attack as it's special. (Sorry I can't remember the name of the weapon)
So between the higher dps I was doing (as I apparently do higher dps than BO, even if using a worse weapon... which is understandable know I know I fire more often) combined with the constant aoe... likely why I dragged aggro in 2+ shots every time without fail.
Should I be trying to get my BO with AoE type weapons like pulsewaves... so they get more threat/aggro on groups? I've been ignoring weapon types (and damage types for the most part) and just going for highest dps weapons.
I did neglect to mention in my OP I do use my kit & captain skills.. I use the 2 drones, shield turret and shield heals (lol shield heals get the most use). I've actually had more success staying alive by deploying shield turret out of range first, sending in BO then moving to edge of blue field and firing from there... between turret heal and my own shield heal skills... it usually keeps me alive.
Well, except Klingon's. Who run and melee me. pfft.. and melee attacks bypass shields and go straight off my health.
I'll have to try and remember that - C for crouch... 50% dodge vs ranged attacks... I completely forgot about the ability to crouch. Been awhile since I last played seriously. Thank you for reminding me.
For your example, the +16% and +10% consoles together would give you +26%. The consoles are added together in a linear manner.
Beam damage consoles boost all Beam Arrays AND all Dual Beam Banks, but not any sort of turrets or cannons.
The numbers that you are seeing for your mounted weapon are properly boosted for all of the skill and equipment bonus that you have, while the weapons that you see on the AH or other purchasing locations (i.e. whenever you are looking at an item that you don't actually possess) do not show the boosts from these bonus effects. To properly compare your existing torpedo launcher against the ones on the AH, you need to dismount your torpedo launcher and look at its numbers while it sits in your inventory window, where it will be properly stripped of bonus effects and will thus allow you to compare apples to apples.
Fundamentally, aggro is based on how much damage you have inflicted onto enemies. An enemy prioritizes whoever is damaging it the most (after bonus/penalties to aggro generation are accounted for). Thus, if your captain is out-damaging your BOFFs, then you will steal the enemy's focus away from them. Also, if you attack any enemy that is not focused on another player or NPC, it will immediately focus on you.
The easiest solution, then, is to shift the damage balance.
First of all, equip your BOFFs with the strongest weapons that you can, to boost their damage.
Second, make sure that they have their BOFF skills maxed (i.e. that you have invested the full amount of Expertise points in training them in all nine ranks of each of their abilities).
Third, especially if you are Science or Engineering, use your Captain powers and kit powers, as well as any combat pets that you have to either placate enemies or deal unconventional damage (turrets, chroniton mines, Exothermic Induction, Hyperonic Radiation, etc.)--damage from pets/turrets/drones or "field" effects like fires create aggro against the pet/whatever instead of against your Captain.
as time goes on, from stf's you will gradually build up a huge inventory of consoles. However you can mine dilithium and buy the 26% consoles from the dil store, or use it to craft those consoles if you can't wait. Run elite stf's , use the powered strange alien artifact, or starbase defenses if you want to focus on getting them quicker.
as far as torps doing less dps at higher levels, it could be a quality issue. Green, then blue, then purple, each color is an increase in quality. So a blue at IV will out dps a green mark V. In sector space and some other maps, you Skills are calculated into the listed dps of equipment, which can boost it quite a bit. My 4,000 damage quantum torpedo will be listed as at least 5000 damage sometimes. If you want a new torpedo, replay an old mission.
Torps are helpful when leveling as they do kinetic damage, which does extra damage to a hull. 2 minutes of blasting away with your puny 2 phaser arrays could be as easy as two torpedos. I would say you should go to the wiki and check out the different types and what they do. Quantum and photon are pure dps, plasma has a dot, chroniton a slow, transpacific has some minor shield penetration, etc.
Mission replays allow you to replay a previous mission for improved loot, all the way to the level cap. When I was leveling i would sometimes play diplomatic orders, ore some such. One of the early fed missions, as it offered a torpedo launcher at my level.
Things to keep in mind though:
A) A Green (uncommon) console of say VII/VIII level, will have the exact same stats as a Blue (Rare) V/VI Console, so when searching the Exchange, sometimes it's worth looking for a Green Version of the Console, strangely, even though the stats are identical, many people insist on paying ridiculously high prices, just because it's Blue.
Polaron = Power Drain.
Phased Polaron = Power Drain + Subsystem Offline
Protonic Polaron = Polaron & Proton Direct to Hull Damage
Dominion Polaron = Polaron + Bonus Shield Damage (only available as a Beam Array or Dual Cannon though)
All of those use Polaron as the Base Damage type, so you can still use Polaron TAC Consoles or an Item Set (the Jem-H set for instance) ... These "Hybrids" can sometimes be bought for lower prices on the Exchange than their standard counterparts.
The other consideration on weapon prices is the various [MODS] on the weapons ... [ACC] Accuracy is considered one of the most favourable with [Crit-H] Critical Chance probably the second most favoured. [DMG] Damage is pretty much worthless, as it only gives a small boost, where as [ACC} is loved because ... "Ya gotta' hitem' to hurtem" and [Crit-H} because, if you do hit them, and it's a critical hit, it does a LOT of extra damage.
A few things to be aware if with Torpedo's and their "apparent' damage.
Photon and Quantum Torpedo's have what's known as "Kinetic" damage, this is the highest seeming damage type of all Torps ... BUT ... It is hugely reduced by Shields, so it can end up being not as effective. So as mentioned they are more a 'Weapon of Opportunity', they can be devastating if they hit at the right time, or virtually worthless if they hit at the wrong time.
Once you've been playing a while, you can learn to judge the cooldowns or fire rates (see below) on Torpedo's and keep watch on when your enemies shields are low to make the shots count (i.e keep your ship turned sideways so the torpedo doesn't fire, then when the enemies shields turn red or disappear, quickly turn to front and fire the torpedo) You can also use "drain builds' to lower your enemies shields quicker to make your Torpedo's more effective.
Other Torpedo's will use different Damage types, that may not have the massive numbers, but have other strengths - Plasma Torpedo's for instance are well liked because they not only have a reasonable "boom" damage, but also a "DoT" or Damage Over Time effect, which is a "Plasma Fire" onboard the enemy ship for a few seconds, which causes more damage than the initial strike.
Another consideration is the 'cooldown" or how often the Torpedo fires, Photon Torpedo's are the fastest standard Torp. @ 6.5 Seconds where as Tricobalt has the longest @ 30 Seconds.
Don't worry about it so much as you level, just use whatever. Ironically low level stuff tends to be really expensive since most people are playing at max level, not many people are getting low level drops. What does get posted has its price inflated by people leveling alts (and buying stuff with their rich main character's resources). You'll be surprised what you can get decent Mk X or even XI stuff for at max level.
+% consoles stack in a predictable way, they all add the stated % to the base damage of whatever they modify. If you had a weapon doing 1000 damage, each +26% console would add 260 damage. Items that modify damage resistance, and consoles that add to captain skills (like Starship Shield Systems or Electro Plasma Systems) work differently. Someone with more detailed knowledge of the game's math would have to explain, but there's definitely a diminishing return on resistance, and possibly on skill boosts.
Use Tactical Team when under fire. It automatically balances your shields toward where you're taking damage. It essentially forces the enemy to shoot through the equivalent of all four shield facings before getting to your hull. Tactical Team 1 is fine, the higher levels don't improve that part of its effect at all.
Try one of the ones I mentioned (compression pistols or high density rifles), for a reason I'll get to in a bit. You can also keep the pulsewave as your second weapon, and switch to it when clearing out small groups of weaker enemies.
What I often do with the Boffs is use them to help me with the Expose/Exploit mechanic. I give my Boffs weapons with an AoE Expose (pulsewave, full auto rifles), then I will use a weapon with an Exploit (compression pistol, high density rifle, also sniper rifles). The Boffs' shots will generate Exposes (represented by a big orange target reticule appearing on the affected target). At that point, I use my weapon's Exploit shot to do big damage.
If you're an Eng, the "bunker" method certainly works. I used to have my Engineer Boffs do the same. Do be aware though that it is a FOO strategy. It's not really helping you get any better, and when you get into a situation where it doesn't work, you might be screwed. I would suggest starting to play with Eng skills like Weapons Malfunction and Fuse Armor to disable your enemies, or with the "Demolition Engineer" strategy of using Chroniton Mine Barrier and Transphasic Bomb. Those last skills are why Engineers are often considered OP on the ground. Also, if you aren't using one already, I strongly suggest a Boff who is a Sci healer (Hypospray Melorazine, Medical Tricorder, Vascular Regenerator, Nanite Health Monitor).
The Borg love that tactic too. Fortunately, melee is the one thing they can't adapt to, leading to the "run up and hack its face off with a sword" school of anti-Borg tactics.