I would even be satisfied if Suffix "modules" were installed during an assembly stage, at the end (and thus fused to the item)...
Close, but.. no. The idea of the modules being fused to the base item neither fits with the abovementioned logic nor makes sense given the setting. The old RPG trope of forcing the player to choose between destroying an item to recover its mods or destroying the mods to free up the item's slots really doesn't belong here.
Regardless - allow customized creation, and have that customization use objects even novice crafters can generate (or allow refinement of novice created items to higher tiers) in order to ensure all tiers of crafting have purpose.
I hadn't honestly considered to the idea of crafting projects that just upgrade the rarity of an item (another sort might add slots to an item, to the absolute max of 4, without affecting rarity), but we do seem to agree on what the crafting system should allow.
Another idea an acquaintance and I were discussing was that of adding a second roll to the process. For example, you start a project to create a [Dmg] mod; the possible results would be common, uncommon, rare, or very rare (with the exact numbers modified by skill). The second roll is independent of that (and also modified by crafting skill), and represents the odds of a, well, lucky break causing the resulting module to have a bonus effect chosen at random from a pool unavailable by other means. In the case of our hypothetical [Dmg] mod, it might be something like [SHeal] or [SDisrupt] (representing the only way you can get either outside of fleet ordinance), or even [Odds] or [Enhc]; the latter pair are explained below:
[Odds]: boosts the chances of all on-hit effects associated with the weapon by 50%. For example, [KB2] would have a 15% chance of triggering instead of 10%.
[Enhc]: all secondary effects associated with the weapon multiplied by 1.5. This would include, for example, the damage from [DoT*] or the crit severity from [CritD] or [CrtX] (but not the latter's chance) or the knockback distance from [KB*]... or the time shaved by [Rch].
What I'm presently having a little :mad:, or just with is the rigid implementation of different crafting schools. I don't just need torpedos, nor do I just need science consoles, but if I'm going to start investing in this system I'm going to have to make some sort of long-term decision about which school I'm going to invest most in just to put the grinding and material exchange costs to a bearable minimum. And that decision is going to be based far more on the utility of being able to craft a particular kind of equipment rather than having a particular equipment piece.
IE. I feel I'm being forced into the broader categories of items (ex. consoles) even though for my playstyle and ship loadouts the more confined schools are of greater interest (ex. Projectiles).
What may help with this is unbalancing the leveling rate of "niche" schools (Projectiles, Shields, Ground Weapons) is greater than the more pragmatic categories (anything with consoles or energy weapons) so that exploring those other areas of the crafting system doesn't come at so much of a cost to practicality.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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I have about 5000 crafting materials in my bank, we need a bulk conversion option as I am not interested in trying to convert them to the new system one a time.
I'm not a fan of the random nature of the results. Could you work in a method where we can choose the traits we are trying to craft? There is nothing more frustrating than successfully creating a very rare MK XII cannon and it has Dam x 3 when i wanted Acc x 3.
Couple questions/concerns (probably mentioned elsewhere but hey, doesn't hurt):
1. All my characters already have the existing crafting system maxed out. What happens to this investment ... is it simply lost? :eek:
2. What about Common/Uncommon Unreplicateable materials ... bought with Dilithium? Are they used anywhere? If not, what do they convert into or is that investment simply lost too? :eek:
3. Bulk conversion of old -> new is desperately needed. A slider, or something but not one at a time ...
4. Whilst we're on the topic of doing things in bulk, the bulk crafting of components/items would be useful too.
5. Converting old common -> new common/uncommon ... seems fair but old rare -> RANDOM common/uncommon??? really???
6. I'm sorry but having to spend Dilithium to craft components doesn't wash with me, there are more than enough dilithium-sinks in this game already. And it's the sole reason I never actually made full use of the original crafting system, other than to max out the skill.
7. I don't need or want seperate R&D inventory slots per character ... it needs to be per ACCOUNT, so all characters can access the same R&D inventory.
I'm not a fan of the random nature of the results. Could you work in a method where we can choose the traits we are trying to craft? There is nothing more frustrating than successfully creating a very rare MK XII cannon and it has Dam x 3 when i wanted Acc x 3.
8. Neither am I. If I'm having to invest the time & effort in crafting something, I want to choose what I craft & what traits it has & not have those traits, or the quality for that matter, randomized. Even more so, if I'm having to spend dilithium to craft it.
I have about 5000 crafting materials in my bank, we need a bulk conversion option as I am not interested in trying to convert them to the new system one a time.
Same Issue here...
I am not spending countless time click one by one...
As several other posters have mentioned, this randomness combined with the high dillithium cost will result in no one using the system.
Why not use all the component crafting to take the randomness out of the equation? First, the quality must be static then have optional component slots for an item.
Say I want to make a Very Rare MK XII Beam Array - it then has 3 optional component slots. If I want [Acc]x3 I build 3 Targeting Processors, if I want [Dmg]x3 - then build 3 Focusing Lenses or combine them if I want [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x1.
If you still want the luck chance in there - use it to reward people instead of punishing them with inferior results. Say I get a crit on the above Beam Array - it turns out my Duty Officers was really efficient and actually managed to make two of those Beam Arrays! Great if I'm equipping a ship - if not, I can sell the surplus.
And just to chime in:
- conversion way too clunky - need a slider system ASAP - and better conversion rate, especially particle traces
- UI too clunky, components spread over different categories, have to basically craft an item just to see which components it requires. Must be able to queue multiple crafts - especially components.
- Projects take way too long - especially the levelling ones - 1 hour for a mk VI weapon?!? If you really want this, at least make the rush job EC based.
- Desperately need a non-combat way to gather aside from DOFF missions - keep exploration clusters! Same goes for Very Rare materials - Elite STFs should not be the only non-zen source of these.
- More recipies: Kits/Modules and Costumes would be great.
- The majority of levelling XP should come from components, not the final items - it's a waste of materials just to make vendor junk. Also a scavenge materials option to break down said vendor junk would help in getting a little return on the material investment.
In it's current implementation I'm sorry to say that I won't spend one minute on it. If just the conversion tool changes, I'll use that to free up bank space. And please don't make this system more appealing by just raising cost for rep and fleet gear!!! (I believe saw somewhere that the price for Romulan Plasma weapons had been raised to over 40k dil.)
Without the high cost, randomness and time gating, it could be made in to a fun and engaging system.
The UI looks nice enough, but I feel the old Doff interface was better. Things are just taking up way too much space on the screen, and isn't conveying the information any better.
As people have said, converting old materials to new materials is just dreadful to do.
Having to build one component at a time is pretty dreadful. Trying to find the Emitter component for beams was a pain, since unlike everything else, the name of the project is not the result of that project. Having to go into the project to build the item in order to see what you need, then switch back and slowly build each part one at a time is just bad. What, I couldn't walk into Engineering and just give them a list of basic components I'd like for them to build?
I doubt I'll ever use the 'finish it now' button. An hour costs 900 dilithium? There are way too many other things demanding my dilithium to justify that. If you want to create sinks for things, then make people happy to actually sink whatever it is in.
Having a chance to get a very rare that you might possibly want isn't going to draw people into the system. As the system stands, it'll mainly get used by people who want the buff(s), and even many of them won't bother with the amount of grind it would take to max out.
The system just isn't fun in general. The grind and costs are large, the interface is clunky, and the main reward is a trait.
I have 12 toons, only one of them had crafting maxed on old system and I have only crafted 1 Aegis set (and bought another one on exchange as it was cheaper) and one Bath'let that I used. Things were cheaper on exchange.
So I hoped that the new system would make crafting useable, but I am disappointed.
Again, it's too expensive, too unpredictable and too much effort. I know this is a beta version and I have just had a look at it, so I am still a noob to that system.
I don't mind the grinding up to high xp until you can make decent stuff. I also wouldn't mind if the items were character or account bound on pickup
But what I do mind:
you grind a fair bit until you can make decent stuff. Then it's expensive, complicated and no guaranteed success. In short: a few EC grinding missions and searching the exchange is more efficient and more fun.
I had hoped for a few things:
that one could upgrade items - makes levelling easier, if you have your blue/purple beams that you can upgrade from II to IV and so on.
I had hoped that the crafting system was revamped in such a manner that it would rival the exchange. Like, collecting materials on missions, getting max XP on crafting and then being able to get some decent stuff
I had hoped for new craftable consoles, in the style of Dyson rep consoles (only more usable)
Also the reward for toons that had crafting skill maxed already is ridiculous.
But then again, a part of me had hoped that rep stores would partially be payable with marks rather than just Dilithium - so I am an optimist.
Question is: what's the point of it?
In short: you put a lot of work and thinking into something completely useless. Ressources would have been better spent bughunting. CLaiming that this is the big feature of S9,5 will not go down too well with players.
18 characters
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
I do have play today and try it and i have few thing to note for the crafting revamp.
1. make it so we can convert more just one at the time
2. discard comment, uncomment...... items transfer it component items and very rare items get very rare component.
3.for old players to be benefaction (wort the time) we need to select modes like Acc, CritD....
you can limit the use of the same mode like 4xAcc to just 2. Other wise thews items are not as good that fleet weapons even if we get a very rare item you get a random mode so for this price to get 1 good weapon (modes you wont ore need for you build) whit i will get 4 ore 5 Elit fleet(main Dilithium cost).
And for thews who will say crafting is a alternation to the fleet ore reputation i`ts not in practices mb on paper but nooooo. I`ts far more to get their now i`ts not, this way because there are a lot of fleet hit level 5 so you can join and some fleet have it set so you can get on first rank ore second to bye from the fleet store(you just need the fleet marks and whit the new project for fleet marks for just fleet marks i`ts no brainier)
No, no, no. Bad, Cryptic, bad!
I will probably repeat stuff others said, but I feel like the issue needs voices.
1) Converting materials:
At who were you aiming this? Did you expect that all players just stopped collecting materials after tutorial level? Even if they did, there are still some doff missions that reward them so...
2) New doff UI:
No, just no. The old one was better keep that one. So far I didn't see changes that I would expect doff revamp to have - like a better track of assignment chains for example. Now there is just a mess that doesn't properly scale with the UI so the first hour of the game of the patch will be trying to figure out the UI setup of whoever designed this thing.
Then there is lack of indication of what department this assignment belongs too as well as alphabetical order (wtf? why?). The old system is functional. If you are not revamping the doff system don't mess with it.
3.) Crafting schools:
Why? This serves no purpose. Especially since some of the components are in more than one school. Just remove schools all together but make it like RnD department of doffs.
You know what I mean... like diplomacy, science, medical, ets + JUST RnD with single progress bar.
But keep it in separate tab as it is now so it doesn't get lost in other doff stuff.
4.) Crafting UI:
Again no breakdown as to type of the thing you are about to craft or quality, but alphabet order. I guess I see why you did it here. Your heart was on the right place (I need to craft xy for that I need EPS conduit so that would be under E), but it doesn't work very well.
5.) Crafting components:
Why is there no option to craft more than one piece? Why? It's components. They are even put in special bag, so its not like we are going to queue 150 personal shields and then complain (cause we would) that it doesn't fit in our inventory. And its not like there is chance to get different result, right?
6.) The confirm button:
When crafting equipment, you first have to select type of weapon, then energy type, then mark then press confirm and THEN you find out you are missing some components. So you go back and craft components and repeat the process. Not good.
Remove the confirm button have it reflect the changes as you change stuff.
7.) Missing components:
When you are trying to craft equipment you find out some component is missing. Would be nice if we could click on the icon in the requirements section and the dialog would pop up : to craft this you need this, this and this - you have the materials, would you like to craft it?
8.) Assign the doff:
The list as it is right now does not sit right with me. And I can't come up with something better that is already in place in doff system. Just keep that one for now.
9) Catalysts:
This I don't like. But its free to play game and free to play games have to get moneys somewhere, right?
BUT so far you did a nice job avoiding this sort of things. Please rethink this.
10) Dilithium rush:
Again don't like this, but doesn't really bother me that much. Might as well stay. I could even use it sometime to skip 5minutes out of 24 hours to get something and slot new thing before I log out.
11) Dilithium costs:
Now I haven't crafted that far. From what I hear though the dilithium costs for some of the average stuff is outrageous.
12) Randomness of the thing:
Should be removed completely. This is crafting. I know what I want and I am assigning competent men and spending resources on the thing. Its unacceptable that I would get some random result.
13) Unappealing results:
There is nothing that would interest me here. Honestly I thought crafting would start off as you can craft whatever you want. As in you can put whatever mods you want on your shield for example. Maybe even sacrifice one mod in favor of different engine trail color. Or I don't know maybe like MACO set with Dyson visuals. I don't know. I expected customized equipment, but we are getting just some random things that are no better than stuff from rep stores (does not = nerf rep stores).
14) Future:
I hope stuff will be added there on regular basis. Sort of like fleet store is updated with every season.
As it stand I don't see myself doing this crafting any more than I did the one that is live now.
I also realize that the thing on Tribble is not going to change much (if at all).
But I still thought I would voice my opinion on it.
First of all: Where the hell is that conversion store people are talking about?
Now my thoughts to the new crafting/Doff assignment UI:
In general, I think this is a good idea, but it needs some major tender love and care...
There are missing some filtering functions, especially regarding the Doff selection, but also for the assignments themselves.
The old filtering functions for the doff selection gave me a good control over finding the best doffs for the assignment.
Now? Not so much. The average amout of clicks per assignment has easily tripled, as I have to click on each doff's info button to see if their traits fit in.
The selection feels like quite a mess, as you've always got to scroll through all your doffs from purple to green/white, showing all schools in no particular order (except the quality). And this even though the system behind the curtain still rewards using a doff from a fitting school.
But finding the right doff has been made even more difficult, as there are no longer hints to the profession that may provide a success.
And the selection of assignments got a real mess. If you're searching for assignments of a specific class (like, "sience") you need some experience with the old system to be able to identify these, as the list is completely unsorted.
For the Doff selection, I'd suggest to implement the old filter system. Oh, and bring back the trait info on the doff suggestion window. The extra click to see the traits is unneccessary, in my opinion.
For the assignment selection, it might be making sense to break them up into several tabs, one for each section (diplomatic/engineering/science etc.).
(Note: I didn't read the other posts, as I simply don't have the time to read 20+ pages.)
"I came from a time long gone, saw many other times...
But I'm still a mere human."
Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
Some more thoughts about it from me: Is this new crafting system meant to be something that everyone can do as they level up to get equipment for their level, or exclusively an 'endgame' thing?
The items you get out of it imply that it's something you could do as you level up, and use the equipment you produce. To me, that's how crafting should be. It was something you could do under the older systems, but only if you went out of your way to grind out materials. Adding the dilithium cost effectively prevented that, as new characters aren't likely to have any dilithium, and older players making new characters are unlikely to bother wasting their other characters' dilithium on crafting.
Under this new system, any player's best bet for using the crafting system is just to skip straight to producing Mk VI equipment. But even if they grind the crafting system pretty hard, by the time they can produce Mk VIII equipment (which requires level 5 in the school in order to produce the necessary components), they'll be using Mk XI/XII equipment. It's just not possible for anyone to reasonably accrue the kind of crafting experience to be able to produce equipment for themselves as they level. Since it's basically unusable for lower level characters, that would imply that it's an endgame system.
As an endgame system, you have to grind out a huge number of nigh worthless items for lower levels before being able to produce anything remotely juicy. That's not making it interesting or appealing, that's just making it a [Repetitive Stain Injury Generator Mk XII]. Either the special equipment coming from crafting is rather overpowered, or people aren't really going to bother much with it. More power creep is not a good thing, so I'd rather everything from crafting be good alternatives, not 'must haves' for the DPS crowd. So if people are going to use it, and it's not going to be overpowered goodies, then it's got to have a reasonable grind.
I'd like it to be how crafting is in other games, something that you can do to make equipment that's useful to you as you level up, and if you stick with it, it'll allow you to produce some nice unique pieces (like how the Delta Flyer was. Never a must have, but a nice reward for the week(?) it took to build). Then with some extra effort, producing gear that's on the level of what you'd expect from other sources like the rep gear. Let crafting be something like a rep system that you can start working on from level 1, which if you level it along side your character with some effort, will enable you to produce appropriate mk gear. Once you hit max level, then you can either leave it and move on to the rep system, or you can keep pushing it further, producing some unique and useful equipment. If you started work on it from the start, you'll likely be maxing it out before you're maxing out any of the Reps. If you're only starting crafting at level 50 along side your reps, the reps will be done first.
Thinking even more on the Doff UI, it's just plain bad as far as usability goes. It gives less information and takes up more room; I know the same amount about the rewards, but know less about the requirements to run a mission. When I'm in a sector looking at the doff missions, fairly often I'm looking for things from particular departments. I want Sci cxp, so I scroll down to the Sci section and see if there's any that look good. I can click once on it to see what sorts of doffs it needs, and if it's not one that appeals to me, then I can just continue looking through the list. In this new system, if I want Sci cxp, I have to look through the entire list, looking for each one that shows that it gives Sci cxp. Then if one looks interesting, I have to begin planning the assignment before I really know what sort of doffs are needed, and if I decide to leave the mission, then I have to click back, and start searching again.
The only improvement that the new system provides is showing how much cxp you get for a mission. That's not really much of an issue anyway, since you can quickly and easily check how much cxp you'd get for a mission just by clicking on it. If you really want to add in the ability to see what you'd get from a doff mission without having to click on it (which I'm sure is one of the least requested things for STO) there would be much better, and more functional ways to go about it.
If nothing else, I'd scrap the new UI. But the crafting system is definitely not fun or interesting.
let start with the possitve point:
I like the new types of materials and componets, that a befite comparded with the old system.
Also the new inventory for that stuff is a good thing.
now to the bad things:
UI: As i say before with the new doff layout, it not used the space well in anyway. It need to be better structured.
Dilitium requiement for items: u should reduce the prices by 50% if not the entire system will not have any befit, u need to kind why to long to craft something and then its even more expansive that rep stuff or fleetstuff, not a good thing.
Random droops: A bit random is not a fault so far (if price fits see above), but its way to much random.
Why not use that doff trait that are already there to make it less randome, let say use a accurte doff has high chance to give to weapons with one or more [Acc] mode, agressive give [Dmg] and so one.
Also the componets shoudl give u more XP for the crafting system as it is now it its way to grindy to make fun.
One other thing to the craftet components, what about use them to repair ship damages instand of the componets we have now?
The new interface is very big and clunky, some things take up more than double the space. We've gone from being able to read the officer requirements in a list, to lots of icons, that are not very descriptive.
There's assignments with a longer list of icons for the requirements, but the icons are spaced in such as way as we can't see them.
It now takes more steps to make materials for crafting. Before we had to collect the materials, buy the unreplicatables and a schematic, and then craft the item. Now we harvest the materials, convert them, craft them to usuable parts (and a lot of navigating back and forth to find and craft those), THEN select the iten, and after all that, can still end up with a MK XII Common item of whatever you want to craft. Granted the DOFF and Catalysts will increase the chances of getting a better item. And a MK IV item takes 15 minutes.
If we have an icon telling us what kinds of resources we're missing for a proejct, can that icon link to the project so it can be crafted, rather than having to navigate back through the menus to find it? One of the cannon items isn't found on the cannons menu.
Assignable officers on the left with their traits, with slots to fill and the requirements was more efficient. Adding the additional interacts made selecting officers inneficient. I now have to bring up a window and confirm from a list of bigger slots which means I see fewer officers at one time.
It also doesn't list their traits when selecting the officers for assignments, but it lists their crafting bonus. That's helpful when crafting, but not when sending them on a diplomatic mission.
Missions in the Current Sector and Personal tabs used to be grouped by category, they're not harder to find. Would it be useful to have the option to sort by name or category?
The larger icons look cool, although looking cool doesn't mean much if it's hard to use.
Bonus to the new system, being able to select the various energy types and MK Levels from drop downs is cool.
The efficiency of the old system was one of it's best points. If we were trying to mimic a lot of the other time consuming crafting systems out there, we did an outstanding job.
What I don't understand: Why does STO need Fantasy-MMO-crafting?
Forging a thousand blades to finally craft that mythic masterpiece of a sword is already certainly not practical or realistic, but to some degree understandable.
However our themepark isn't set in a mythical past, but in a technologically highly advanced future. "Chance" shouldn't be a factor, expertise/xp neither. Our engineers are supposed to be academy-graduates, they should be able to read the blueprint they downloaded via subspace uplink and be able to right away craft the needed parts in order to build that [acc]x3 space weapon their captain demands...
Gathering resources is fine. Utilizing the doff system for time-gating, simulating the production steps, is also ok.
Random modifiers and rarity not. This minigame is supposed to simulate crafting, not roulette.
Converting old resources to new resources needs a way to convert in bulk. Sliders for everyone!
Crafting should have the slots and crafting times removed completely. Having to wait when the old system was nearly instant feels like a step backwards. The results should also be automatically put into your inventory, rather than having to manually claim them. STO already has a system that works (almost exactly) like Neverwinter's profession system with the Doff assignments. We don't need a second one.
Even without removing the crafting times (if the time is actually an issue to prevent master crafters on day one), at least remove the crafting times for components. Making components is way too tedious.
Tooltips for components should say which trees can create them. e.g. Dual Heavy Cannons need a targeting interface, which is made in the beams tree, not the cannons tree. Alternatively, all components needed by any given tree should be craftable in that tree. Alternate alternatively, remove components entirely. Simply use raw materials to make things and cut out the pointless middleman.
I dislike catalysts and duty officers being used to determine the quality of an item. Crafting should have a guaranteed result based solely on what materials are used, with more and/or better materials guaranteeing a higher quality result. Skill level should determine the highest level of item you can craft. This could be done by adding a quality drop-down selection to the item parameters. Further customization, such as choosing the special bonuses like [Acc] or [Dmg], and choosing any special appearance options, would also be appropriate. Chance-based crafting is VERY bad.
If given the choice between trying over and over to craft something I like, or simply buying exactly what I want from reputation/fleet/dilithium stores, I will choose to buy the item every time. Looking at this new system, I'd be better off doing that anyway, since the top end results are subpar. Why should I bother trying to make a purple item, with a high cost, only to have it blow up in my face and give me a blue or a green instead? I could use the same, or less, resources to buy a purple item right off one of the shops.
Here's an example of how guaranteed crafting could work in the interface. You first choose an item type, then a mark level, then a quality. Beneath these three choices would be another set of dropdown choices, which activate based on the quality chosen, to allow the choice of special stats like [Acc] or [Dmg]. The task difficulty and skill part of the interface could be removed entirely, or moved down on the interface. No catalysts or duty officers would also free up space for these drop-down options.
A good example of a well designed crafting system is the one in Elder Scrolls Online. In it, you decide what general item type you want to make, what tier to make, what general quality, what appearance it has, and what special ability the item will have if any. You would choose boots, then leather, then add some extra leather to make it a higher level version of normal leather boots, make it khajiit style, then add a stamina reduction ability or something. The final materials cost is based on all of your choices, and the item is guaranteed to be exactly what you wanted. Your skill level determines the highest tier of item you can create. This is a good setup.
As a request, the ability to customize some aspect of appearance for ship and ground equipment would also be a welcome addition. The aegis set is fine and all, but I want to give my Atrox something with more purple. I want sleeker ground weapons too.
A goal for crafting should be to make it a comparable way to acquire end-game equipment, relative to reputation/fleet/dilithium stores. The biggest difference, however, should be in customization. Updating the crafting system to allow for more personal choice would be the best possible outcome.
Doff UI Commentary
Where did this mess come from? This thing needs some serious work. Here's a nice easy to read list of what's wrong and how it can be fixed.
Big icons say nothing. Instead of pretty pictures, give us the information we need to better decide which assignments to start. The images are also far too large, which is quite easy to see when there are more than about 3 items on the list. It cuts off extra requirements beyond that. Rewards cut off at 4.
Doff selection during planning is cumbersome and lacking in information. Large pop-up windows with people sorted by name doesn't assist in deciding which doffs are best for an assignment. Instead, knowing what type of doff is more important, since that type is also a frequent requirement. I don't want to accidentally assign my only warp core specialist as a generic person for a culinary assignment, just because he's purple, when I still need him to do a specific engineering assignment.
Assignments should be grouped by type. I want to be able to ignore assignments that don't give me the experience I want, without having to mouse over each and every icon to see what it is.
In short, though, the easiest solution would be to leave it alone. The current Doff UI works just fine, and it's easy to use. If it isn't broken, don't fix it!
All done
Not looking to good so far really is it! But comments like this isn't helping so down to brass tacks, these have probably been already mentioned but the more people report back underscores how much everyone feels about it:
1. Picking up traces from missions and mining go into the Inventory tab instead of the R&D tab which means they don't register for the crafting unless you can get to a bank to swap them over.
2. You need to rename the 'Catalyst' to something else like 'Reactant' I - like a lot of people who play this game - did chemistry in school to know that a catalyst enables a reaction to take place but ISN'T lost in the process and can be REUSED, however a reactant is lost.
3. The DOff's when listed often don't have anything to do with the assignment and it isn't readily obvious that they can be changed as even though pressing the assign button can change them it implies that you want to use this officer to do the assignment, and while using a purple advisor might be good for foreign dignitaries I wouldn't trust them to produce a warp core! :eek:
4. More of a question this one, but when I clicked on the Catalyst box it came up with "No Duty Officer or Item to Submit". If there are plans to use DOff's as catalysts then it is strongly advisable to change the idea of loosing them afterwards as no one wants to loose DOff's especially if the outcome is a random one.
General Observations
I know from the release notes that this system is still a work in progress, but I have to say some of the things I have seen so far worry me a great deal especially as this is something a lot of people have been wanting for a long while, if you think the backlash is bad with just a few people testing it, wait till the rest of the player base get their paws on it!
With the cost of the items and the time it takes to make it, no one is going to want a random outcome, if I want a purple Mk XII dual beam bank and am going to invest the time and effort into not only crafting an item but gathering the materials and components then I want a guaranteed out come, and I think this is why a lot of people are also asking for the choice of mods as well (I don't know if this is something in the works or not).
If you - the devs - are intent in there being a random outcome to things then you should remove ALL the dilithium requirements, with the fact that the 'Explore Strange New Worlds' has gone this now means 20% (I get around 7k in dill a day and 'Explore' gave 1440 Dill ((1440/7000)*100=20%) of my daily income has gone as well. So spending that amount of dilithium on a project involves a lot of work for players like me. Work I am willing to put in but not for a random outcome!!!
In general it is nice to see Cryptic making this effort but I think it may have been better to sit down with the player base and ask "What do you want in this?" rather than doing all this work and then getting this negativity in reply. I don't understand why polls aren't used on this forum and more engagement between devs and the player base takes part especially when it concerns what is potentially a big chunk of the game.
Scenario:
Cryptic: "We heard that you want this..."
Player: "Thanks does it have this..?"
Cryptic: "It's now on Tribble for you to test..."
Player: "Thanks but it doesn't do this and that is wrong and what about the other..."
Cryptic: "We have updated this..."
Player: "But it still doesn't do this what we asked for..."
Cryptic: "Yay everyone this is now live on holodeck..."
Playerbase: "But it doesn't do this that and the other..."
Player: *facepalm* "We told you about that on Tribble a month ago..."
Cryptic: "We did this for you, but you are never happy, why do we bother..."
No ones happy!
Instead you could have...
Crypitic: "We understand you want this, so for the next 4 weeks let us know what you would like for this on the forum...use a poll with some choices ask players to vote, solicit additional choices
Playerbase feedback...
Cryptic: "Ok from what you have told us you want X,Y, and Z. X is possible, Y we would have to look into because of A,B and C, and Z isn't possible even if Taco was standing on his head at the time!
Time Passes
Crypitic: "Ok you asked for this, here it is..."
Player: "Okay can this be tweaked! and that tightened up?"
Cryptic: "How about now?"
Player "Perfect..."
Cryptic: "Yay everyone this is now live on holodeck..."
Etc.
There will always be people who complain but it will be a lot less with the second approach than the first!
So sorry for the negativity and please believe me the work everyone puts into this game is appreciated but this is something a lot of have wanted for a long while and feel very strongly about and as it stands at the moment means it will be used about as much as the old system, possibly even less so.
Cryptic: "We heard that you want this..."
Player: "Thanks does it have this..?"
Cryptic: "It's now on Tribble for you to test..."
Player: "Thanks but it doesn't do this and that is wrong and what about the other..."
Cryptic: "We have updated this..."
Player: "But it still doesn't do this what we asked for..."
Cryptic: "Yay everyone this is now live on holodeck..."
Playerbase: "But it doesn't do this that and the other..."
Player: *facepalm* "We told you about that on Tribble a month ago..."
Cryptic: "We did this for you, but you are never happy, why do we bother..."
I may be totally wrong, but it seems that the new Doff UI is a side effect of porting the Neverwinter proffessions to STO. If this is the case, than crafting IS a variation of Doff system.
As for feedback.
1. Dilitium costs must go away. Paying 20k dilitium for a Mk XII item of unknown rarity and modifiers is ridiculous.
2. Refining approx. 10 pcs of every particle trace did not render enough rare resources for creation a MK X item.
3. The "Finish Now" button should have a confirmation window. It is big, it can be clicked by accident. Also, it is active even for projects that take a few seconds to complete. This is low.
Okay, I've spent several hours on Tribble now, trying to make headway with the throw-a-triple-six-to-get-something-I-actually-want crafting system. In addition to all the bad points I've already mentioned: Where are the purple materials?
Y'see, I converted a couple of huge piles of the old particles and particle traces to the new materials. I got more and smaller piles of random materials, many of which did not have the same quality as the things I converted. Where can I get some more materials? Not the star clusters, they've been removed, along with the exploration missions which are THE WHOLE POINT OF STAR TREK! There aren't very many available to get from replaying missions (which I have now done up to Task Force Hippocrates (the one immediately before the Spectres storyline starts)). So that only leaves DOff assignments. *Sigh*. Okay, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, one hour, two hours, or four hours, to get a handful of materials when before I could travel to a star cluster that offered the appropriate-level of particle trace, and scan a couple of anomalies to get the same amount - a task which took minutes!
Okay, fine DOff assignments. Oh look, the materials I'm getting have no correspondence to the title of the mission. Still, it's a work in progress, they probably haven't got round to matching such simple things up yet - like they haven't got round to putting Components in sensible crafting categories (Why does a torpedo need a focusing lens? Why does it need an ejector system?) Oh, hey, I've gone through the HIDEOUS new DOff UI and run every material-gathering mission I can find, looks like at least one from each level of particles. Oh look, a couple of them have given me Critical Success, has that actually improved the number and/or quality of the crating materials I receive? No it hasn't!
Before: DOff mission to collect technical schematics particles - four hours, five technical schematics received on a success, ten technical schematics and two random particle traces received on a critical success.
After: DOff mission to collect random crafting materials - four hours, six materials of random type and quality received on a success, twelve materials of random type and quality received on a critical success. None more than blue quality in either case.
FFS Cryptic, if you want me to tie up a pair of purple DOffs for four hours, I had better get a pre-specified reward (NOT a random one); and if I get critical success, I want the reward to be as good as possible. Blue-quality crafting materials are NOT as good as purple-quality crafting materials, so why aren't I getting them from critical successes?
On current showing, Cryptic, if the DOff UI and crafting system currently on Tribble goes to Holodeck without thorough re-working and improvement, I will stop crafting completely, and I will only continue to DOff in order to get unique rewards (Unforgiven of Ferasa/Caitian Diaspora, Ghosts of the Jem'Hadar, and Project Chrysalis chains, and the star cluster DOffs if you keep them available), and the Transwarp destinations for Diplomacy/Marauding.
You are killing the game by continuing on this path
I'll throw my hat into the ring. The randomness combined with dilithium requirements is a terrible idea.
Not only that but removing the clusters is just as bad or even worse. You are forcing people who want to craft into re-running episodes, foundries for mats. A mind numbing time sink with quite frankly, very little payoff.
My opinion, not that this matters is to seriously reconsider this if not all out scrap this plan.
As presented currently on tribble, this crafting system is flat out awful. One of the worst I've seen in an mmo.
Okay so normally I don't like to be critical on new content. But this.... oh gods the facepalming and the throbbing in my fingers at this point. Arthritis from hell trying to convert all those traces from back logs of them.
The new crafting system as it stands... is well just too cumbersome. There are many aspects that have potential after being refined. The skill trees, while understandable that you mixed crafting parts into other trees so as not to get people constantly doing just one thing and keeping it spread out. Though this approach does have its fall backs. The main one being how much back tracking you must do to get all the items you need to just make one thing you want. A simple work around to this would be
Select the Item you want to make, (you don't have the items needed. Okay Auto craft to get.) Worth waiting a little bit while that happens. Go fly around, do an stf or something. (Or just do away with all the middle stuff.) And let us use the raw materials we already have stockpiled. I'm sure that the engineering department along with the quartermaster of the ship could handle making a few things from raw materials without you having to tell them you need to make this or that first.
Please for the love of the Great Bird of the Galaxy do not change the Doff ui... the current one works just fine, is not an eye sore or cumbersome. IT works no need to fix, maybe refine a little or polish up. A new feature like a promotion system for your doffs that have been around on your ship for ages. (Once promoted cant be traded) so as not to flood the exchange with them. That could be great.
Okay so the little perks for getting your crafting skill up is.. well cute. Though could be improved. It would make more sense to have special benefits that are only offered through the crafting system to be added to the items themselves. This would give a the new system a good draw.... like (example though I would love to see actually work. Mk XII VR turret, new proc 1% chance to trigger cannon rapid fire 1 for all turrets.) Little things like that or other new traits to weapons would make this system worth the bloody effort.
As it stands from testing it and nearly braking my mouse and fingers dealing with conversions and the multilayer steps needed to make anything. It just not worth the time, the aggravation or the cost.
Space is vast, it's wonderful and maddening. Yet in that madness is some of the greatest beauty I have ever seen.
I hear that testing is up on Tribble, so I copy my max level crafter over there to check things out, and I am very disappointed.
In the old system, I would gather traces and then craft small things until I get enough experience to craft what I want. There was a slight cost (in Dil) for the better stuff, but that is to be expected. I was actually able to get one of my three crafting captains up to full XP in less than an hour, thanks in part to my Fleets Bank full of material.
In the new system, I have to use a junior officer (DOff) to actually do the crafting for me, no sense of accomplishment here.
I actually spent 15 minutes just trying to figure out how to convert my old material to the new stuff and then about 30 minutes actually clicking to convert. I'll repeat here what everyone else has said: "Sliders, please!"
While I didn't have a lot of materials I was able to get up to Level 2 on Beams. Trying to maximize XP received I crafted the minor parts then created a MK II Antiproton Dual Beam Bank, for which I got a purple!
I then tried crafting MK VI AP DBB (everything higher required components that I didn't have), and was able to create 3 Commons and 1 Uncommon. All of this took about 90 minutes.
Since this was Tribble, I actually used the Dil to speed things up but if this was Holodeck, I would just wait it out. It's too hard for me to come up with Dil for the amount of time I can actually play the game.
I don't play a lot of MMOs so I'm not too familiar with the crafting systems but here are my observations:
1) I actually like that I have to create a sub-part to create what I'm after, but since most require several items, make it where I can craft multiple items at once.
2) Even better, if I'm missing sub-parts, give me to option of clicking the missing piece(s) and it automatically going to that crafting screen. i.e. I click a MK II AP Beam Array which needs two Focusing Lens and two Targeting Interface. I click Focusing Lens and it takes me to the Focusing Lens crafting interface.
3) Everything seems too pricey for the result. 3 Common and 5 Uncommon parts to make a MK VI AP Dual Beam Bank?
4) Generally, I am not a very lucky player and this system seems to require lots of it.
5) To repeat what a lot have asked: Let me craft the exact item I want, not a random piece of equipment that I can get as a drop in most missions.
The conversion store needs sliders to purchase more than one material at a time, otherwise people with lots of materials already to hand will find conversion quite tedious.'.
Definitely agree with needing sliders. You can hold CTRL to bypass the "do you want to buy this" dialog, but sliders would be so much more convenient.
While on the topic of sliders, it would be REALLY NICE to have qty sliders in the crafting assignments as well. If I need to make 10 EPS conduits, it takes a LONG TIME to queue up 10 separate tasks to do this. A slider that adjusts the qty, updating the r&d supplies needed to complete x qty of that item would be PERFECT. Of course, the task completion time / dil buy-out price would scale accordingly.
Crafting is making something you want, not a gamble what you get.
If cryptic doesn't think like that, i can craft you some new cars will cost you $ 100.000,00 but you can get a ferari (or a fiat panda)
I've copy and pasted this from what I said on the patch notes, but I have expanded on it so here goes;
1) The dilithium cost is extortionate. There is no way it should cost this much dil for a gamble at something that may or may not be any good.
2) We can't even choose the modifiers for the items, which is pretty lame, but I would like to know why because surely I would be able to tell my crew what I expect them to tune the equipment for....
3) Might be an idea for when you max a school, but could we have the opportunity to reverse-engineer technology we pick up in the field to add them to the list of stuff we can craft? For example, what if I pick up a Voth Sniper Rifle, could I reverse-engineer this to get that type of antiproton energy type and the look of the weapon?
You could even make it so we can get some rare procs from stuff in-game, like the psi proc off the lirpa from Hearts and Minds, just as an example, or even polarised disruptor energy types. It would add a dilithium and ec sink to get people collecting stuff to add to their repertoire.
4) Why are there no melee weapons in the ground weapons school? That seems rather short-sighted not to include a popular fighting method.
5) What is going to happen to the Alien Artefact console creation mission, because isn't that going to be made rather redundant with this update? Because even if you do level crafting the way it is now, the odds of you getting what you want far outstrip the odds from the alien artefact mission.
6) Is there really much point differentiating beams and cannons when they have a lot of similar stuff between the two schools such as the consoles? Surely it would be better to amalgamate them into one and combine the trait to energy weapon damage in general?
7) It may just be me but two pieces of the aegis set, engine and deflector, don't seem to be available.
8) Do you actually plan to put a tier progression bar at the top of each school so we can see what we unlock as we go along, assuming there is anything to be unlocked? Because at the moment it doesn't look like there is really anything there that is unique, contrary to what D'Angelo told us in his blog.
9) The old doff interface is better, put it back how it was. I know for a fact the pro doffers I know and myself all prefer the old style of it.
10) At present this system doesn't seem very alt friendly, because from the looks of it it is going to take an insane amount of time just to level one school on one character. Isn't there going to be a way of lightening the load for other characters after completing a school?
11) I absolutely in no way endorse timers that cost dilithium to reduce the cooldown of a project. Remove them!
12) The way this is now, I feel comfortable predicting that this is a system only those with considerable time and resources are going to get through with any meaningful progress, and I feel many players simply won't be able to get through this in any meaningful manner. People need to feel they're making progress and at present it feels too heavy going for that to be the case.
13) Apparently there was meant to be a few ultra-rare pieces in the system but they don't seem to be there as far as I can tell. Also, I have yet to see how this system is supposed to be competitive in any way shape or form, because at present I'd be better off running missions until I get a good piece of gear, selling it then buying precisely what I want.
14) I did figure the system out fairly quick myself, however I can imagine someone else might have issues and so there really needs to be a tutorial. Yet this is minor compared to the glaringly awful issues the system already has.
Any decent crafting system should be about making what you want, knowing what you're going to get bar the rarity maybe and knowing you won't be wasting a lot of resources. This system doesn't remotely achieve this, and frankly I'm finding it hard to believe someone actually thought that the system as it stands on tribble is actually any good.
I will, as the system is now, point blank refuse to use it if it goes live. I know some people are getting the feeling this game is heading more and more towards a more Asian-style grindfest MMO and that's putting them off, and certainly this crafting 'revamp' has only strengthened those feelings considerably.
It's a shame really, because recently it felt like stuff was improving, albeit slowly, but now I'm not so sure if this is really the way the game is going....
EDIT: I've probably missed a few points, but that is a fair number of them, and I hope someone reads this and listens.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
All I see is another reputation, but with an overly complicated way to level it up.
As long as dilithium or any other real money currency has any part in it, I wont bother.
My main chars are maxed out on all other reputations, they also have access to a maxed out Fleet starbase, so can get Mk12 VR quality equipment any time they want to.
Why would I bother with crafting to gamble as much dilithium on maybe getting the equivalent??
The founding idea behind crafting, is that "time" being the main currency. It should take ages to max out crafting, and complicated in that you need to find the different materials needed to craft said item.
Dilthium or any other real money currency has no place in crafting at all, period.
Instead, Cryptic logic suggests that we should be charged: Time to level+time to make+Dilithium cost to make+(optional)Dilithium cost to finish quicker+random drop! :rolleyes:
What it should be: Time to level+time to make+(optional)EC cost to finish quicker+random drop....
Comments
I hadn't honestly considered to the idea of crafting projects that just upgrade the rarity of an item (another sort might add slots to an item, to the absolute max of 4, without affecting rarity), but we do seem to agree on what the crafting system should allow.
Another idea an acquaintance and I were discussing was that of adding a second roll to the process. For example, you start a project to create a [Dmg] mod; the possible results would be common, uncommon, rare, or very rare (with the exact numbers modified by skill). The second roll is independent of that (and also modified by crafting skill), and represents the odds of a, well, lucky break causing the resulting module to have a bonus effect chosen at random from a pool unavailable by other means. In the case of our hypothetical [Dmg] mod, it might be something like [SHeal] or [SDisrupt] (representing the only way you can get either outside of fleet ordinance), or even [Odds] or [Enhc]; the latter pair are explained below:
IE. I feel I'm being forced into the broader categories of items (ex. consoles) even though for my playstyle and ship loadouts the more confined schools are of greater interest (ex. Projectiles).
What may help with this is unbalancing the leveling rate of "niche" schools (Projectiles, Shields, Ground Weapons) is greater than the more pragmatic categories (anything with consoles or energy weapons) so that exploring those other areas of the crafting system doesn't come at so much of a cost to practicality.
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I'm not a fan of the random nature of the results. Could you work in a method where we can choose the traits we are trying to craft? There is nothing more frustrating than successfully creating a very rare MK XII cannon and it has Dam x 3 when i wanted Acc x 3.
1. All my characters already have the existing crafting system maxed out. What happens to this investment ... is it simply lost? :eek:
2. What about Common/Uncommon Unreplicateable materials ... bought with Dilithium? Are they used anywhere? If not, what do they convert into or is that investment simply lost too? :eek:
3. Bulk conversion of old -> new is desperately needed. A slider, or something but not one at a time ...
4. Whilst we're on the topic of doing things in bulk, the bulk crafting of components/items would be useful too.
5. Converting old common -> new common/uncommon ... seems fair but old rare -> RANDOM common/uncommon??? really???
6. I'm sorry but having to spend Dilithium to craft components doesn't wash with me, there are more than enough dilithium-sinks in this game already. And it's the sole reason I never actually made full use of the original crafting system, other than to max out the skill.
7. I don't need or want seperate R&D inventory slots per character ... it needs to be per ACCOUNT, so all characters can access the same R&D inventory.
8. Neither am I. If I'm having to invest the time & effort in crafting something, I want to choose what I craft & what traits it has & not have those traits, or the quality for that matter, randomized. Even more so, if I'm having to spend dilithium to craft it.
I am not spending countless time click one by one...
Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...Nope...
NOPE!!!
http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q675/Jr_Comrademoco/Capture_zpse7d48ea8.jpg
Why not use all the component crafting to take the randomness out of the equation? First, the quality must be static then have optional component slots for an item.
Say I want to make a Very Rare MK XII Beam Array - it then has 3 optional component slots. If I want [Acc]x3 I build 3 Targeting Processors, if I want [Dmg]x3 - then build 3 Focusing Lenses or combine them if I want [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x1.
If you still want the luck chance in there - use it to reward people instead of punishing them with inferior results. Say I get a crit on the above Beam Array - it turns out my Duty Officers was really efficient and actually managed to make two of those Beam Arrays! Great if I'm equipping a ship - if not, I can sell the surplus.
And just to chime in:
- conversion way too clunky - need a slider system ASAP - and better conversion rate, especially particle traces
- UI too clunky, components spread over different categories, have to basically craft an item just to see which components it requires. Must be able to queue multiple crafts - especially components.
- Projects take way too long - especially the levelling ones - 1 hour for a mk VI weapon?!? If you really want this, at least make the rush job EC based.
- Desperately need a non-combat way to gather aside from DOFF missions - keep exploration clusters! Same goes for Very Rare materials - Elite STFs should not be the only non-zen source of these.
- More recipies: Kits/Modules and Costumes would be great.
- The majority of levelling XP should come from components, not the final items - it's a waste of materials just to make vendor junk. Also a scavenge materials option to break down said vendor junk would help in getting a little return on the material investment.
In it's current implementation I'm sorry to say that I won't spend one minute on it. If just the conversion tool changes, I'll use that to free up bank space. And please don't make this system more appealing by just raising cost for rep and fleet gear!!! (I believe saw somewhere that the price for Romulan Plasma weapons had been raised to over 40k dil.)
Without the high cost, randomness and time gating, it could be made in to a fun and engaging system.
The UI looks nice enough, but I feel the old Doff interface was better. Things are just taking up way too much space on the screen, and isn't conveying the information any better.
As people have said, converting old materials to new materials is just dreadful to do.
Having to build one component at a time is pretty dreadful. Trying to find the Emitter component for beams was a pain, since unlike everything else, the name of the project is not the result of that project. Having to go into the project to build the item in order to see what you need, then switch back and slowly build each part one at a time is just bad. What, I couldn't walk into Engineering and just give them a list of basic components I'd like for them to build?
I doubt I'll ever use the 'finish it now' button. An hour costs 900 dilithium? There are way too many other things demanding my dilithium to justify that. If you want to create sinks for things, then make people happy to actually sink whatever it is in.
Having a chance to get a very rare that you might possibly want isn't going to draw people into the system. As the system stands, it'll mainly get used by people who want the buff(s), and even many of them won't bother with the amount of grind it would take to max out.
The system just isn't fun in general. The grind and costs are large, the interface is clunky, and the main reward is a trait.
So I hoped that the new system would make crafting useable, but I am disappointed.
Again, it's too expensive, too unpredictable and too much effort. I know this is a beta version and I have just had a look at it, so I am still a noob to that system.
I don't mind the grinding up to high xp until you can make decent stuff. I also wouldn't mind if the items were character or account bound on pickup
But what I do mind:
you grind a fair bit until you can make decent stuff. Then it's expensive, complicated and no guaranteed success. In short: a few EC grinding missions and searching the exchange is more efficient and more fun.
I had hoped for a few things:
that one could upgrade items - makes levelling easier, if you have your blue/purple beams that you can upgrade from II to IV and so on.
I had hoped that the crafting system was revamped in such a manner that it would rival the exchange. Like, collecting materials on missions, getting max XP on crafting and then being able to get some decent stuff
I had hoped for new craftable consoles, in the style of Dyson rep consoles (only more usable)
Also the reward for toons that had crafting skill maxed already is ridiculous.
But then again, a part of me had hoped that rep stores would partially be payable with marks rather than just Dilithium - so I am an optimist.
Question is: what's the point of it?
In short: you put a lot of work and thinking into something completely useless. Ressources would have been better spent bughunting. CLaiming that this is the big feature of S9,5 will not go down too well with players.
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
1. make it so we can convert more just one at the time
2. discard comment, uncomment...... items transfer it component items and very rare items get very rare component.
3.for old players to be benefaction (wort the time) we need to select modes like Acc, CritD....
you can limit the use of the same mode like 4xAcc to just 2. Other wise thews items are not as good that fleet weapons even if we get a very rare item you get a random mode so for this price to get 1 good weapon (modes you wont ore need for you build) whit i will get 4 ore 5 Elit fleet(main Dilithium cost).
And for thews who will say crafting is a alternation to the fleet ore reputation i`ts not in practices mb on paper but nooooo. I`ts far more to get their now i`ts not, this way because there are a lot of fleet hit level 5 so you can join and some fleet have it set so you can get on first rank ore second to bye from the fleet store(you just need the fleet marks and whit the new project for fleet marks for just fleet marks i`ts no brainier)
No, no, no. Bad, Cryptic, bad!
I will probably repeat stuff others said, but I feel like the issue needs voices.
1) Converting materials:
At who were you aiming this? Did you expect that all players just stopped collecting materials after tutorial level? Even if they did, there are still some doff missions that reward them so...
2) New doff UI:
No, just no. The old one was better keep that one. So far I didn't see changes that I would expect doff revamp to have - like a better track of assignment chains for example. Now there is just a mess that doesn't properly scale with the UI so the first hour of the game of the patch will be trying to figure out the UI setup of whoever designed this thing.
Then there is lack of indication of what department this assignment belongs too as well as alphabetical order (wtf? why?). The old system is functional. If you are not revamping the doff system don't mess with it.
3.) Crafting schools:
Why? This serves no purpose. Especially since some of the components are in more than one school. Just remove schools all together but make it like RnD department of doffs.
You know what I mean... like diplomacy, science, medical, ets + JUST RnD with single progress bar.
But keep it in separate tab as it is now so it doesn't get lost in other doff stuff.
4.) Crafting UI:
Again no breakdown as to type of the thing you are about to craft or quality, but alphabet order. I guess I see why you did it here. Your heart was on the right place (I need to craft xy for that I need EPS conduit so that would be under E), but it doesn't work very well.
5.) Crafting components:
Why is there no option to craft more than one piece? Why? It's components. They are even put in special bag, so its not like we are going to queue 150 personal shields and then complain (cause we would) that it doesn't fit in our inventory. And its not like there is chance to get different result, right?
6.) The confirm button:
When crafting equipment, you first have to select type of weapon, then energy type, then mark then press confirm and THEN you find out you are missing some components. So you go back and craft components and repeat the process. Not good.
Remove the confirm button have it reflect the changes as you change stuff.
7.) Missing components:
When you are trying to craft equipment you find out some component is missing. Would be nice if we could click on the icon in the requirements section and the dialog would pop up : to craft this you need this, this and this - you have the materials, would you like to craft it?
8.) Assign the doff:
The list as it is right now does not sit right with me. And I can't come up with something better that is already in place in doff system. Just keep that one for now.
9) Catalysts:
This I don't like. But its free to play game and free to play games have to get moneys somewhere, right?
BUT so far you did a nice job avoiding this sort of things. Please rethink this.
10) Dilithium rush:
Again don't like this, but doesn't really bother me that much. Might as well stay. I could even use it sometime to skip 5minutes out of 24 hours to get something and slot new thing before I log out.
11) Dilithium costs:
Now I haven't crafted that far. From what I hear though the dilithium costs for some of the average stuff is outrageous.
12) Randomness of the thing:
Should be removed completely. This is crafting. I know what I want and I am assigning competent men and spending resources on the thing. Its unacceptable that I would get some random result.
13) Unappealing results:
There is nothing that would interest me here. Honestly I thought crafting would start off as you can craft whatever you want. As in you can put whatever mods you want on your shield for example. Maybe even sacrifice one mod in favor of different engine trail color. Or I don't know maybe like MACO set with Dyson visuals. I don't know. I expected customized equipment, but we are getting just some random things that are no better than stuff from rep stores (does not = nerf rep stores).
14) Future:
I hope stuff will be added there on regular basis. Sort of like fleet store is updated with every season.
As it stand I don't see myself doing this crafting any more than I did the one that is live now.
I also realize that the thing on Tribble is not going to change much (if at all).
But I still thought I would voice my opinion on it.
Now my thoughts to the new crafting/Doff assignment UI:
In general, I think this is a good idea, but it needs some major tender love and care...
There are missing some filtering functions, especially regarding the Doff selection, but also for the assignments themselves.
The old filtering functions for the doff selection gave me a good control over finding the best doffs for the assignment.
Now? Not so much. The average amout of clicks per assignment has easily tripled, as I have to click on each doff's info button to see if their traits fit in.
The selection feels like quite a mess, as you've always got to scroll through all your doffs from purple to green/white, showing all schools in no particular order (except the quality). And this even though the system behind the curtain still rewards using a doff from a fitting school.
But finding the right doff has been made even more difficult, as there are no longer hints to the profession that may provide a success.
And the selection of assignments got a real mess. If you're searching for assignments of a specific class (like, "sience") you need some experience with the old system to be able to identify these, as the list is completely unsorted.
For the Doff selection, I'd suggest to implement the old filter system. Oh, and bring back the trait info on the doff suggestion window. The extra click to see the traits is unneccessary, in my opinion.
For the assignment selection, it might be making sense to break them up into several tabs, one for each section (diplomatic/engineering/science etc.).
(Note: I didn't read the other posts, as I simply don't have the time to read 20+ pages.)
But I'm still a mere human."
Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
I know what you mean. There's little or no information which, given that it's still under development is understandable, I guess.
I found it by accident - if you dbl-click on a stack of the old materials, it appears.
The items you get out of it imply that it's something you could do as you level up, and use the equipment you produce. To me, that's how crafting should be. It was something you could do under the older systems, but only if you went out of your way to grind out materials. Adding the dilithium cost effectively prevented that, as new characters aren't likely to have any dilithium, and older players making new characters are unlikely to bother wasting their other characters' dilithium on crafting.
Under this new system, any player's best bet for using the crafting system is just to skip straight to producing Mk VI equipment. But even if they grind the crafting system pretty hard, by the time they can produce Mk VIII equipment (which requires level 5 in the school in order to produce the necessary components), they'll be using Mk XI/XII equipment. It's just not possible for anyone to reasonably accrue the kind of crafting experience to be able to produce equipment for themselves as they level. Since it's basically unusable for lower level characters, that would imply that it's an endgame system.
As an endgame system, you have to grind out a huge number of nigh worthless items for lower levels before being able to produce anything remotely juicy. That's not making it interesting or appealing, that's just making it a [Repetitive Stain Injury Generator Mk XII]. Either the special equipment coming from crafting is rather overpowered, or people aren't really going to bother much with it. More power creep is not a good thing, so I'd rather everything from crafting be good alternatives, not 'must haves' for the DPS crowd. So if people are going to use it, and it's not going to be overpowered goodies, then it's got to have a reasonable grind.
I'd like it to be how crafting is in other games, something that you can do to make equipment that's useful to you as you level up, and if you stick with it, it'll allow you to produce some nice unique pieces (like how the Delta Flyer was. Never a must have, but a nice reward for the week(?) it took to build). Then with some extra effort, producing gear that's on the level of what you'd expect from other sources like the rep gear. Let crafting be something like a rep system that you can start working on from level 1, which if you level it along side your character with some effort, will enable you to produce appropriate mk gear. Once you hit max level, then you can either leave it and move on to the rep system, or you can keep pushing it further, producing some unique and useful equipment. If you started work on it from the start, you'll likely be maxing it out before you're maxing out any of the Reps. If you're only starting crafting at level 50 along side your reps, the reps will be done first.
Thinking even more on the Doff UI, it's just plain bad as far as usability goes. It gives less information and takes up more room; I know the same amount about the rewards, but know less about the requirements to run a mission. When I'm in a sector looking at the doff missions, fairly often I'm looking for things from particular departments. I want Sci cxp, so I scroll down to the Sci section and see if there's any that look good. I can click once on it to see what sorts of doffs it needs, and if it's not one that appeals to me, then I can just continue looking through the list. In this new system, if I want Sci cxp, I have to look through the entire list, looking for each one that shows that it gives Sci cxp. Then if one looks interesting, I have to begin planning the assignment before I really know what sort of doffs are needed, and if I decide to leave the mission, then I have to click back, and start searching again.
The only improvement that the new system provides is showing how much cxp you get for a mission. That's not really much of an issue anyway, since you can quickly and easily check how much cxp you'd get for a mission just by clicking on it. If you really want to add in the ability to see what you'd get from a doff mission without having to click on it (which I'm sure is one of the least requested things for STO) there would be much better, and more functional ways to go about it.
If nothing else, I'd scrap the new UI. But the crafting system is definitely not fun or interesting.
let start with the possitve point:
I like the new types of materials and componets, that a befite comparded with the old system.
Also the new inventory for that stuff is a good thing.
now to the bad things:
UI: As i say before with the new doff layout, it not used the space well in anyway. It need to be better structured.
Dilitium requiement for items: u should reduce the prices by 50% if not the entire system will not have any befit, u need to kind why to long to craft something and then its even more expansive that rep stuff or fleetstuff, not a good thing.
Random droops: A bit random is not a fault so far (if price fits see above), but its way to much random.
Why not use that doff trait that are already there to make it less randome, let say use a accurte doff has high chance to give to weapons with one or more [Acc] mode, agressive give [Dmg] and so one.
Also the componets shoudl give u more XP for the crafting system as it is now it its way to grindy to make fun.
One other thing to the craftet components, what about use them to repair ship damages instand of the componets we have now?
There's assignments with a longer list of icons for the requirements, but the icons are spaced in such as way as we can't see them.
It now takes more steps to make materials for crafting. Before we had to collect the materials, buy the unreplicatables and a schematic, and then craft the item. Now we harvest the materials, convert them, craft them to usuable parts (and a lot of navigating back and forth to find and craft those), THEN select the iten, and after all that, can still end up with a MK XII Common item of whatever you want to craft. Granted the DOFF and Catalysts will increase the chances of getting a better item. And a MK IV item takes 15 minutes.
If we have an icon telling us what kinds of resources we're missing for a proejct, can that icon link to the project so it can be crafted, rather than having to navigate back through the menus to find it? One of the cannon items isn't found on the cannons menu.
Assignable officers on the left with their traits, with slots to fill and the requirements was more efficient. Adding the additional interacts made selecting officers inneficient. I now have to bring up a window and confirm from a list of bigger slots which means I see fewer officers at one time.
It also doesn't list their traits when selecting the officers for assignments, but it lists their crafting bonus. That's helpful when crafting, but not when sending them on a diplomatic mission.
Missions in the Current Sector and Personal tabs used to be grouped by category, they're not harder to find. Would it be useful to have the option to sort by name or category?
The larger icons look cool, although looking cool doesn't mean much if it's hard to use.
Bonus to the new system, being able to select the various energy types and MK Levels from drop downs is cool.
The efficiency of the old system was one of it's best points. If we were trying to mimic a lot of the other time consuming crafting systems out there, we did an outstanding job.
Forging a thousand blades to finally craft that mythic masterpiece of a sword is already certainly not practical or realistic, but to some degree understandable.
However our themepark isn't set in a mythical past, but in a technologically highly advanced future. "Chance" shouldn't be a factor, expertise/xp neither. Our engineers are supposed to be academy-graduates, they should be able to read the blueprint they downloaded via subspace uplink and be able to right away craft the needed parts in order to build that [acc]x3 space weapon their captain demands...
Gathering resources is fine. Utilizing the doff system for time-gating, simulating the production steps, is also ok.
Random modifiers and rarity not. This minigame is supposed to simulate crafting, not roulette.
Converting old resources to new resources needs a way to convert in bulk. Sliders for everyone!
Crafting should have the slots and crafting times removed completely. Having to wait when the old system was nearly instant feels like a step backwards. The results should also be automatically put into your inventory, rather than having to manually claim them. STO already has a system that works (almost exactly) like Neverwinter's profession system with the Doff assignments. We don't need a second one.
Even without removing the crafting times (if the time is actually an issue to prevent master crafters on day one), at least remove the crafting times for components. Making components is way too tedious.
Tooltips for components should say which trees can create them. e.g. Dual Heavy Cannons need a targeting interface, which is made in the beams tree, not the cannons tree. Alternatively, all components needed by any given tree should be craftable in that tree. Alternate alternatively, remove components entirely. Simply use raw materials to make things and cut out the pointless middleman.
I dislike catalysts and duty officers being used to determine the quality of an item. Crafting should have a guaranteed result based solely on what materials are used, with more and/or better materials guaranteeing a higher quality result. Skill level should determine the highest level of item you can craft. This could be done by adding a quality drop-down selection to the item parameters. Further customization, such as choosing the special bonuses like [Acc] or [Dmg], and choosing any special appearance options, would also be appropriate. Chance-based crafting is VERY bad.
If given the choice between trying over and over to craft something I like, or simply buying exactly what I want from reputation/fleet/dilithium stores, I will choose to buy the item every time. Looking at this new system, I'd be better off doing that anyway, since the top end results are subpar. Why should I bother trying to make a purple item, with a high cost, only to have it blow up in my face and give me a blue or a green instead? I could use the same, or less, resources to buy a purple item right off one of the shops.
Here's an example of how guaranteed crafting could work in the interface. You first choose an item type, then a mark level, then a quality. Beneath these three choices would be another set of dropdown choices, which activate based on the quality chosen, to allow the choice of special stats like [Acc] or [Dmg]. The task difficulty and skill part of the interface could be removed entirely, or moved down on the interface. No catalysts or duty officers would also free up space for these drop-down options.
A good example of a well designed crafting system is the one in Elder Scrolls Online. In it, you decide what general item type you want to make, what tier to make, what general quality, what appearance it has, and what special ability the item will have if any. You would choose boots, then leather, then add some extra leather to make it a higher level version of normal leather boots, make it khajiit style, then add a stamina reduction ability or something. The final materials cost is based on all of your choices, and the item is guaranteed to be exactly what you wanted. Your skill level determines the highest tier of item you can create. This is a good setup.
As a request, the ability to customize some aspect of appearance for ship and ground equipment would also be a welcome addition. The aegis set is fine and all, but I want to give my Atrox something with more purple. I want sleeker ground weapons too.
A goal for crafting should be to make it a comparable way to acquire end-game equipment, relative to reputation/fleet/dilithium stores. The biggest difference, however, should be in customization. Updating the crafting system to allow for more personal choice would be the best possible outcome.
Doff UI Commentary
Where did this mess come from? This thing needs some serious work. Here's a nice easy to read list of what's wrong and how it can be fixed.
Big icons say nothing. Instead of pretty pictures, give us the information we need to better decide which assignments to start. The images are also far too large, which is quite easy to see when there are more than about 3 items on the list. It cuts off extra requirements beyond that. Rewards cut off at 4.
Doff selection during planning is cumbersome and lacking in information. Large pop-up windows with people sorted by name doesn't assist in deciding which doffs are best for an assignment. Instead, knowing what type of doff is more important, since that type is also a frequent requirement. I don't want to accidentally assign my only warp core specialist as a generic person for a culinary assignment, just because he's purple, when I still need him to do a specific engineering assignment.
Assignments should be grouped by type. I want to be able to ignore assignments that don't give me the experience I want, without having to mouse over each and every icon to see what it is.
In short, though, the easiest solution would be to leave it alone. The current Doff UI works just fine, and it's easy to use. If it isn't broken, don't fix it!
All done
Well, almost. CHANCE BASED CRAFTING IS BAD.
Now I'm done.
Not looking to good so far really is it! But comments like this isn't helping so down to brass tacks, these have probably been already mentioned but the more people report back underscores how much everyone feels about it:
1. Picking up traces from missions and mining go into the Inventory tab instead of the R&D tab which means they don't register for the crafting unless you can get to a bank to swap them over.
2. You need to rename the 'Catalyst' to something else like 'Reactant' I - like a lot of people who play this game - did chemistry in school to know that a catalyst enables a reaction to take place but ISN'T lost in the process and can be REUSED, however a reactant is lost.
3. The DOff's when listed often don't have anything to do with the assignment and it isn't readily obvious that they can be changed as even though pressing the assign button can change them it implies that you want to use this officer to do the assignment, and while using a purple advisor might be good for foreign dignitaries I wouldn't trust them to produce a warp core! :eek:
4. More of a question this one, but when I clicked on the Catalyst box it came up with "No Duty Officer or Item to Submit". If there are plans to use DOff's as catalysts then it is strongly advisable to change the idea of loosing them afterwards as no one wants to loose DOff's especially if the outcome is a random one.
General Observations
I know from the release notes that this system is still a work in progress, but I have to say some of the things I have seen so far worry me a great deal especially as this is something a lot of people have been wanting for a long while, if you think the backlash is bad with just a few people testing it, wait till the rest of the player base get their paws on it!
With the cost of the items and the time it takes to make it, no one is going to want a random outcome, if I want a purple Mk XII dual beam bank and am going to invest the time and effort into not only crafting an item but gathering the materials and components then I want a guaranteed out come, and I think this is why a lot of people are also asking for the choice of mods as well (I don't know if this is something in the works or not).
If you - the devs - are intent in there being a random outcome to things then you should remove ALL the dilithium requirements, with the fact that the 'Explore Strange New Worlds' has gone this now means 20% (I get around 7k in dill a day and 'Explore' gave 1440 Dill ((1440/7000)*100=20%) of my daily income has gone as well. So spending that amount of dilithium on a project involves a lot of work for players like me. Work I am willing to put in but not for a random outcome!!!
In general it is nice to see Cryptic making this effort but I think it may have been better to sit down with the player base and ask "What do you want in this?" rather than doing all this work and then getting this negativity in reply. I don't understand why polls aren't used on this forum and more engagement between devs and the player base takes part especially when it concerns what is potentially a big chunk of the game.
Scenario:
Cryptic: "We heard that you want this..."
Player: "Thanks does it have this..?"
Cryptic: "It's now on Tribble for you to test..."
Player: "Thanks but it doesn't do this and that is wrong and what about the other..."
Cryptic: "We have updated this..."
Player: "But it still doesn't do this what we asked for..."
Cryptic: "Yay everyone this is now live on holodeck..."
Playerbase: "But it doesn't do this that and the other..."
Player: *facepalm* "We told you about that on Tribble a month ago..."
Cryptic: "We did this for you, but you are never happy, why do we bother..."
No ones happy!
Instead you could have...
Crypitic: "We understand you want this, so for the next 4 weeks let us know what you would like for this on the forum...use a poll with some choices ask players to vote, solicit additional choices
Playerbase feedback...
Cryptic: "Ok from what you have told us you want X,Y, and Z. X is possible, Y we would have to look into because of A,B and C, and Z isn't possible even if Taco was standing on his head at the time!
Time Passes
Crypitic: "Ok you asked for this, here it is..."
Player: "Okay can this be tweaked! and that tightened up?"
Cryptic: "How about now?"
Player "Perfect..."
Cryptic: "Yay everyone this is now live on holodeck..."
Etc.
There will always be people who complain but it will be a lot less with the second approach than the first!
So sorry for the negativity and please believe me the work everyone puts into this game is appreciated but this is something a lot of have wanted for a long while and feel very strongly about and as it stands at the moment means it will be used about as much as the old system, possibly even less so.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Cryptic: "We heard that you want this..."
Player: "Thanks does it have this..?"
Cryptic: "It's now on Tribble for you to test..."
Player: "Thanks but it doesn't do this and that is wrong and what about the other..."
Cryptic: "We have updated this..."
Player: "But it still doesn't do this what we asked for..."
Cryptic: "Yay everyone this is now live on holodeck..."
Playerbase: "But it doesn't do this that and the other..."
Player: *facepalm* "We told you about that on Tribble a month ago..."
Cryptic: "We did this for you, but you are never happy, why do we bother..."
That is scary accurate.
As for feedback.
1. Dilitium costs must go away. Paying 20k dilitium for a Mk XII item of unknown rarity and modifiers is ridiculous.
2. Refining approx. 10 pcs of every particle trace did not render enough rare resources for creation a MK X item.
3. The "Finish Now" button should have a confirmation window. It is big, it can be clicked by accident. Also, it is active even for projects that take a few seconds to complete. This is low.
Y'see, I converted a couple of huge piles of the old particles and particle traces to the new materials. I got more and smaller piles of random materials, many of which did not have the same quality as the things I converted. Where can I get some more materials? Not the star clusters, they've been removed, along with the exploration missions which are THE WHOLE POINT OF STAR TREK! There aren't very many available to get from replaying missions (which I have now done up to Task Force Hippocrates (the one immediately before the Spectres storyline starts)). So that only leaves DOff assignments. *Sigh*. Okay, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, one hour, two hours, or four hours, to get a handful of materials when before I could travel to a star cluster that offered the appropriate-level of particle trace, and scan a couple of anomalies to get the same amount - a task which took minutes!
Okay, fine DOff assignments. Oh look, the materials I'm getting have no correspondence to the title of the mission. Still, it's a work in progress, they probably haven't got round to matching such simple things up yet - like they haven't got round to putting Components in sensible crafting categories (Why does a torpedo need a focusing lens? Why does it need an ejector system?) Oh, hey, I've gone through the HIDEOUS new DOff UI and run every material-gathering mission I can find, looks like at least one from each level of particles. Oh look, a couple of them have given me Critical Success, has that actually improved the number and/or quality of the crating materials I receive? No it hasn't!
Before: DOff mission to collect technical schematics particles - four hours, five technical schematics received on a success, ten technical schematics and two random particle traces received on a critical success.
After: DOff mission to collect random crafting materials - four hours, six materials of random type and quality received on a success, twelve materials of random type and quality received on a critical success. None more than blue quality in either case.
FFS Cryptic, if you want me to tie up a pair of purple DOffs for four hours, I had better get a pre-specified reward (NOT a random one); and if I get critical success, I want the reward to be as good as possible. Blue-quality crafting materials are NOT as good as purple-quality crafting materials, so why aren't I getting them from critical successes?
On current showing, Cryptic, if the DOff UI and crafting system currently on Tribble goes to Holodeck without thorough re-working and improvement, I will stop crafting completely, and I will only continue to DOff in order to get unique rewards (Unforgiven of Ferasa/Caitian Diaspora, Ghosts of the Jem'Hadar, and Project Chrysalis chains, and the star cluster DOffs if you keep them available), and the Transwarp destinations for Diplomacy/Marauding.
You are killing the game by continuing on this path
Not only that but removing the clusters is just as bad or even worse. You are forcing people who want to craft into re-running episodes, foundries for mats. A mind numbing time sink with quite frankly, very little payoff.
My opinion, not that this matters is to seriously reconsider this if not all out scrap this plan.
As presented currently on tribble, this crafting system is flat out awful. One of the worst I've seen in an mmo.
The new crafting system as it stands... is well just too cumbersome. There are many aspects that have potential after being refined. The skill trees, while understandable that you mixed crafting parts into other trees so as not to get people constantly doing just one thing and keeping it spread out. Though this approach does have its fall backs. The main one being how much back tracking you must do to get all the items you need to just make one thing you want. A simple work around to this would be
Select the Item you want to make, (you don't have the items needed. Okay Auto craft to get.) Worth waiting a little bit while that happens. Go fly around, do an stf or something. (Or just do away with all the middle stuff.) And let us use the raw materials we already have stockpiled. I'm sure that the engineering department along with the quartermaster of the ship could handle making a few things from raw materials without you having to tell them you need to make this or that first.
Please for the love of the Great Bird of the Galaxy do not change the Doff ui... the current one works just fine, is not an eye sore or cumbersome. IT works no need to fix, maybe refine a little or polish up. A new feature like a promotion system for your doffs that have been around on your ship for ages. (Once promoted cant be traded) so as not to flood the exchange with them. That could be great.
Okay so the little perks for getting your crafting skill up is.. well cute. Though could be improved. It would make more sense to have special benefits that are only offered through the crafting system to be added to the items themselves. This would give a the new system a good draw.... like (example though I would love to see actually work. Mk XII VR turret, new proc 1% chance to trigger cannon rapid fire 1 for all turrets.) Little things like that or other new traits to weapons would make this system worth the bloody effort.
As it stands from testing it and nearly braking my mouse and fingers dealing with conversions and the multilayer steps needed to make anything. It just not worth the time, the aggravation or the cost.
In the old system, I would gather traces and then craft small things until I get enough experience to craft what I want. There was a slight cost (in Dil) for the better stuff, but that is to be expected. I was actually able to get one of my three crafting captains up to full XP in less than an hour, thanks in part to my Fleets Bank full of material.
In the new system, I have to use a junior officer (DOff) to actually do the crafting for me, no sense of accomplishment here.
I actually spent 15 minutes just trying to figure out how to convert my old material to the new stuff and then about 30 minutes actually clicking to convert. I'll repeat here what everyone else has said: "Sliders, please!"
While I didn't have a lot of materials I was able to get up to Level 2 on Beams. Trying to maximize XP received I crafted the minor parts then created a MK II Antiproton Dual Beam Bank, for which I got a purple!
I then tried crafting MK VI AP DBB (everything higher required components that I didn't have), and was able to create 3 Commons and 1 Uncommon. All of this took about 90 minutes.
Since this was Tribble, I actually used the Dil to speed things up but if this was Holodeck, I would just wait it out. It's too hard for me to come up with Dil for the amount of time I can actually play the game.
I don't play a lot of MMOs so I'm not too familiar with the crafting systems but here are my observations:
1) I actually like that I have to create a sub-part to create what I'm after, but since most require several items, make it where I can craft multiple items at once.
2) Even better, if I'm missing sub-parts, give me to option of clicking the missing piece(s) and it automatically going to that crafting screen. i.e. I click a MK II AP Beam Array which needs two Focusing Lens and two Targeting Interface. I click Focusing Lens and it takes me to the Focusing Lens crafting interface.
3) Everything seems too pricey for the result. 3 Common and 5 Uncommon parts to make a MK VI AP Dual Beam Bank?
4) Generally, I am not a very lucky player and this system seems to require lots of it.
5) To repeat what a lot have asked: Let me craft the exact item I want, not a random piece of equipment that I can get as a drop in most missions.
Definitely agree with needing sliders. You can hold CTRL to bypass the "do you want to buy this" dialog, but sliders would be so much more convenient.
While on the topic of sliders, it would be REALLY NICE to have qty sliders in the crafting assignments as well. If I need to make 10 EPS conduits, it takes a LONG TIME to queue up 10 separate tasks to do this. A slider that adjusts the qty, updating the r&d supplies needed to complete x qty of that item would be PERFECT. Of course, the task completion time / dil buy-out price would scale accordingly.
If cryptic doesn't think like that, i can craft you some new cars will cost you $ 100.000,00 but you can get a ferari (or a fiat panda)
1) The dilithium cost is extortionate. There is no way it should cost this much dil for a gamble at something that may or may not be any good.
2) We can't even choose the modifiers for the items, which is pretty lame, but I would like to know why because surely I would be able to tell my crew what I expect them to tune the equipment for....
3) Might be an idea for when you max a school, but could we have the opportunity to reverse-engineer technology we pick up in the field to add them to the list of stuff we can craft? For example, what if I pick up a Voth Sniper Rifle, could I reverse-engineer this to get that type of antiproton energy type and the look of the weapon?
You could even make it so we can get some rare procs from stuff in-game, like the psi proc off the lirpa from Hearts and Minds, just as an example, or even polarised disruptor energy types. It would add a dilithium and ec sink to get people collecting stuff to add to their repertoire.
4) Why are there no melee weapons in the ground weapons school? That seems rather short-sighted not to include a popular fighting method.
5) What is going to happen to the Alien Artefact console creation mission, because isn't that going to be made rather redundant with this update? Because even if you do level crafting the way it is now, the odds of you getting what you want far outstrip the odds from the alien artefact mission.
6) Is there really much point differentiating beams and cannons when they have a lot of similar stuff between the two schools such as the consoles? Surely it would be better to amalgamate them into one and combine the trait to energy weapon damage in general?
7) It may just be me but two pieces of the aegis set, engine and deflector, don't seem to be available.
8) Do you actually plan to put a tier progression bar at the top of each school so we can see what we unlock as we go along, assuming there is anything to be unlocked? Because at the moment it doesn't look like there is really anything there that is unique, contrary to what D'Angelo told us in his blog.
9) The old doff interface is better, put it back how it was. I know for a fact the pro doffers I know and myself all prefer the old style of it.
10) At present this system doesn't seem very alt friendly, because from the looks of it it is going to take an insane amount of time just to level one school on one character. Isn't there going to be a way of lightening the load for other characters after completing a school?
11) I absolutely in no way endorse timers that cost dilithium to reduce the cooldown of a project. Remove them!
12) The way this is now, I feel comfortable predicting that this is a system only those with considerable time and resources are going to get through with any meaningful progress, and I feel many players simply won't be able to get through this in any meaningful manner. People need to feel they're making progress and at present it feels too heavy going for that to be the case.
13) Apparently there was meant to be a few ultra-rare pieces in the system but they don't seem to be there as far as I can tell. Also, I have yet to see how this system is supposed to be competitive in any way shape or form, because at present I'd be better off running missions until I get a good piece of gear, selling it then buying precisely what I want.
14) I did figure the system out fairly quick myself, however I can imagine someone else might have issues and so there really needs to be a tutorial. Yet this is minor compared to the glaringly awful issues the system already has.
Any decent crafting system should be about making what you want, knowing what you're going to get bar the rarity maybe and knowing you won't be wasting a lot of resources. This system doesn't remotely achieve this, and frankly I'm finding it hard to believe someone actually thought that the system as it stands on tribble is actually any good.
I will, as the system is now, point blank refuse to use it if it goes live. I know some people are getting the feeling this game is heading more and more towards a more Asian-style grindfest MMO and that's putting them off, and certainly this crafting 'revamp' has only strengthened those feelings considerably.
It's a shame really, because recently it felt like stuff was improving, albeit slowly, but now I'm not so sure if this is really the way the game is going....
EDIT: I've probably missed a few points, but that is a fair number of them, and I hope someone reads this and listens.
As long as dilithium or any other real money currency has any part in it, I wont bother.
My main chars are maxed out on all other reputations, they also have access to a maxed out Fleet starbase, so can get Mk12 VR quality equipment any time they want to.
Why would I bother with crafting to gamble as much dilithium on maybe getting the equivalent??
The founding idea behind crafting, is that "time" being the main currency. It should take ages to max out crafting, and complicated in that you need to find the different materials needed to craft said item.
Dilthium or any other real money currency has no place in crafting at all, period.
Instead, Cryptic logic suggests that we should be charged: Time to level+time to make+Dilithium cost to make+(optional)Dilithium cost to finish quicker+random drop! :rolleyes:
What it should be: Time to level+time to make+(optional)EC cost to finish quicker+random drop....