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Carrier Pets
kaeaja
Member Posts: 517 Arc User
Why are Carrier fighter pets so easily destroyed? The Voth have alot of AoE, the Undine have a decent amount, more often then not every time I send out my carrier pets they USUALLY dont last more then like 20 seconds and sure...sure....people will tell me "Well you aint doing it right" or something along those lines. Well then if thats the case then id really like to be told what Im doing wrong, because im not just keeping em out there, I send them out for a bit and pull them back almost immediately so they wont die, but even then they just keep managing to die for some of the following reasons
A) AoE kills them way to easily
They have an....admittingly not so good AI has them getting so close to the ships they are attacking that its like they are numerous mechanical clones of Bill Clinton shooting laser beams!....and it causes them to die from Warp Core/Singularity Core explosions...
C) They take to long to react when they should immediately move away from the ship that is exploding so that they DONT get caught in the explosion of said ship. Further more they SHOULD NOT be getting so close as to put themselves in danger of being blown up on in the FIRST PLACE by any enemy ship near them when that enemy dies -.-
D) They take to long to react to carrier commands, what would help is when the Recall Command is given, that they get a speed boost that is only present DURING the Recall.
All in all as carrier pets are right now, they just die way to easily and their....sorry Cryptic but their not so good AIs dont help...
I have a suggestion that would solve at least ONE problem. Make them EXTREMELY resistant to Warp Core/Singularity Core explosions so that a ship blowing up close to them wont kill them! This would at least prevent them from dying accidentlly to exploding ships since again their AI causes them to die from that.
A) AoE kills them way to easily
They have an....admittingly not so good AI has them getting so close to the ships they are attacking that its like they are numerous mechanical clones of Bill Clinton shooting laser beams!....and it causes them to die from Warp Core/Singularity Core explosions...C) They take to long to react when they should immediately move away from the ship that is exploding so that they DONT get caught in the explosion of said ship. Further more they SHOULD NOT be getting so close as to put themselves in danger of being blown up on in the FIRST PLACE by any enemy ship near them when that enemy dies -.-
D) They take to long to react to carrier commands, what would help is when the Recall Command is given, that they get a speed boost that is only present DURING the Recall.
All in all as carrier pets are right now, they just die way to easily and their....sorry Cryptic but their not so good AIs dont help...
I have a suggestion that would solve at least ONE problem. Make them EXTREMELY resistant to Warp Core/Singularity Core explosions so that a ship blowing up close to them wont kill them! This would at least prevent them from dying accidentlly to exploding ships since again their AI causes them to die from that.
Post edited by kaeaja on
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On me fed Gal-X I usually use Adv Delta Flyers, I've used Perigrines and the Type 8 and 10's before, but they don't survive as well. I prefer the Deltas as they do more shield penetrating damage with their transphasic torps than the runabouts, adv runabounts do have tractor beams to hold targets, but I find it's not as useful.
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
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They've tried tweaking this. When a ship pops - before it breaches - it sends a pulse out in a small radius. NPCs in that radius get the notice - try to fly out. NPCs outside that radius - well, they have that happy go lucky tendency to fly right into the boom.
They could have fixed this... by giving Feds frig pets.:D
Technically those Type 10's survive the best out of the Fed fighters but they are pretty worthless.
Delta's are not horrible but if you do not mind sending them out again in rapid succession Elite Scorps make Advanced Delta's look like utter garbage in damage output. Oddly this seems to be due not just to their torpedo but actually because Elite Scorps and S'kul fighters more than any other seem to be best at keeping their cannons on target. I have no idea why these two got so lucky but the rest will just turret enemies and fail to put nose on target the majority of time.
As to the OP... Indeed Fighters really need some sort of help. For one if they would INSTANTLY come back inside the hangar when recalled that would help a LOT. Right now they do not even usually heal inside the hangar and they may just stop dead if recalled and do nothing. Other times they will just do whatever they feel like doing. Their AI is really messy.
I would say if you want pets that deal massive damage then the Elite Scorps are your best friend but they will get plowed by the Voth.
If you want a pet that survives then it will depend on what faction you are.
KDF: Most Survivable is the Fer'jai those things will survive nearly anything. If you cannot have those then you should try to get some Birds of Prey.
Federation: Sadly you are largely SoL here... Type 10 Shuttles survive the best but are utterly worthless. Runabouts and Yellowstones are not horrible and are very useful. If you are a full blown carrier then one bay of Delta Flyers and one of Runabouts is about the best you can get for survivable pets that can actually do something. If you only have on Hangar then I would suggest either Runabouts (because you likely can kill things just fine with your ship so just stop things from getting away) or Type 10's if you absolutely need them to live that badly.
Romulan: If you can get them the Romulan Drone Ships rock otherwise you will have to use whatever your allies offer.
You're probably doing things right, really, it's Cryptic fighter design - it's damn worthless. You hit just about every point that is a glaring issue with fighters.
Also to add, all fighter weapons should be unique 360 degree; if they want to orbit, why try to work against it?
Ranks should be attached to the hanger, or just not lost on death, so they can only rank up. Having most wings at rank 5 takes some time and then they just get wiped out with some AoE attack. F'in lame.
It's completely unnecessary to enter a map with empty hangers. All wings should fill up on entering a map.
Frigates don't suffer as much because they last so much longer.
What? Can you explain a little better how the fighter rank system is the cause of why fighters pop so quickly? Sorry, none of that makes sense.
The new enemies with all the FAW spam and charged particle burst is the reason. Not the rank system.
Cryptic nerfed the base performance of fighters in general so that they can "level up" to their old standards.
There was quite a bit of complaining about that on the official forums from carrier users when this was done.
AOE attacks had always been there, esp. if you PVP'ed.
Respawned pets mean they're going towards the target (i.e. guns ON target), so while dead pets are annoying, some of the consequences aren't horrible. Back in the day (and even now), recalled pets were an option to stop the dumb AI from short circuiting your pets shooting at the bad guys.
Anyway, I'm running my Vo'quv witih Orion Interceptors & To'duj now. I even have the ability to use the almighty frigate pets, but I'm not due to these threads. We'll see how much my ship "sucks" now that I'm running fighters only (not even Deltas or Runabouts since KDF doesn't have those).
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Needs moar Engineers
My BOFFS can handle entire spawns of stuff without me raising a finger. The trick is to set up their abilities so that they spread aggro out sufficiently. If they get focus fired (with the exception of when they're equipped with a few specific bits of very tanky gear) then they're dead.
Try an Engineer and a Medic in the Voth Battlezone. Ideally the Engineer should have Shield recharge, a few summonables and Weapons Malfunction... and the Medic should have at least two heals along with a self-rez "just in case" (so Android or Voth). A Photonic Tactical with Smoke Grenade can also work; but an Engineer is harder to kill. Personally I try to use an Android Medic and a Diplomacy-earned female Orion Engineer - the "Seduce" trait means one less enemy firing on them.
Unless you manage to get a Recluse carrier that is...
Personally I tend to go for Elite Scorpions; they're a reasonable balance between DPS (Obelisk Swarmers being "full DPS") and Survivability (Yellowstones being a bit hardier).
Even with the Voth spam nightmare at the end of the Undine battlespace, a little positioning helps fighters a whole lot.
I mostly run Birds of Prey... not the pets, but the ships, as my main ship. I'm a BoP captain, mostly. With a BoP, I can't loiter in Voth FAW spam space because I have less shields & hull to lose compared to an Excelsior or Mogh. So I hang on the edge and flank all the big Voth that wander in. You deal with your shortcomings when you have something like a BoP... you can't afford to do the same dumb things in a light hull ship like a BoP.
Standing on the edge of the Voth spam bubble, and nibbling at the edges in my Carrier (especially sending them in against the bigger, badder Voth rather than the useless Palisade Frigates)... I was able to contribute & keep fighters in the game, and I didn't even have to resort to BoP hangars.
Isn't that what most of us try to do anyway? Stand-off at range, contribute some beam attacks & sci abilities, but avoid being in the midst of a fight? Why get sucked into the middle of the Voth spam where it will eat all our fighters in moments? And if you're in an Armitage or Ar'kif, what's the big deal? You can DPS like heck anyway. (At least I can in my Ar'kif)
Yes, AOE of all sorts eats fighters. Undine snot bubbles must be eating some. Voth FAW spam definitely eats bunches. Warp core breaches eat a bunch... but with 2 Flight Deck DOFFs on cooldown reduction, I usually have at least one hangar ready to go in my Vo'quv. I just can't expect to slot all DPS Flight Deck Officers & get away with it, but having more guns on target with multiple fighters... I think my DPS is just fine versus running BoP pets.
I'm not saying Fighters are perfect, but I find them still usable & I'm hardly a very good Carrier captain.
ISE & such, that's just too easy for a Carrier captain, IMO. Easier than running my BoPs.
...
Voth Battleground? I run 2 Engineers with my Sci Captain. Engineers with shield recharge abilities means more time with shields up, and shields up means you're not getting killed.
Everything else is kind of pointless, even Medic-style BOFFs. Just use a Large Hypo if you're low on health. Tac BOFFs are the most pointless because Sci & Eng BOFFs have plenty of DPS skills for ground.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
BoP pets damage is poor compared to my fighter pets, and mobility is miserable, even if survivability is good. The 80 second cooldown on BoP pets is painful.
If small pets last much longer in the field, they also will last much longer against YOU. This is an issue with a lot of player improvements... what you suggest will also come back at you in time, so do you really want it?
This may be all a "weak argument" to you because of your perceptions, even if you dismiss my points as fluff without discussion. You have a right to your feelings & whatever you think you are owed in this game.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Trust me... You are not missing anything without shuttles. Interceptors are pretty good and To'duj are not bad either and against most content both will be good but not as good as Elite Scorpions.
The problem is against the Voth who AoE spam like mad they will be vaporized constantly.
Oddly the Undine do not seem to hurt Fighters all that much. They get ignored by the snot balls which is a big help.
My carriers often are in the middle of the frey and can out tank most cruisers and still dish out a bit of damage. (Talking Kar'Fi and Atrox here not "Flight Deck" types of ships) Likewise they can support their friends well with their heals and abilities but the fighter craft hardly survive in that same area.
I for one have little issue with Fighters being more survivable than a High Yield Torp or a Mine. I should have to put in at least a modicum of effort to kill them or more intelligently I should focus on the carrier that brought them and kill IT.
Where did I ever say I was "owed" something? huh? Fighters in their current state are miserable and I'm pointing it out; I can't believe someone here is actually defending how things are with Fighters.
The rank system should work for us, not against us. That means more survivability or no rank loss at all, but at least one has to happen. Mobility needs to be way better if they are going to be susceptible to warp core explosions.
For the record, STO pvp just sucks; who cares about it. Some MMOs work on their pvp and get good success with it. Cryptic didn't pull it off or even come close for that matter. D&D online gave pvp a shot with the bar brawl area and it wasn't a good fit, so they put all their time into content and mechanics. That's fine. Cryptic should do the same since they can't come close to balance with pvp. There would be no shame in this.
STO PvP doesn't suck and you would be very surprised how many in fact do PvP, especially outside of public ques. Is it as polished or comparable to other MMO's PvP system? Of course not. The main issue with STO's PvP mechanics, is the lack of incentive to do so. No Leader-board system, No PvP specific gear, no real reward system at all. People PvP because they enjoy to do so and find it more enjoyable and rewarding going up against a REAL person and not some dumbed down mindless AI, grinding away at the same few missions repeatedly. People also love bettering themselves and building and tweaking builds to see how they compare to other players.
There are alot of things that go on behind the scenes, like sanctioned PvP Tournaments with high end prizes. The real argument to your comment is STO PvE sucks...No emphasis on team composition or real team work to reach mission objectives, no need to better yourself or your build and Dumbed down AI with grindfest missions that lack both depth and intrique to name a few.
Yes there are alot of balancing issues in STO's PvP, just like there are in 90% of all other MMO's PvP system. Some developers allocate more resources to this department then others, but every season of STO since I started playing (Season 2) has seen changes in how skills and items interact.
STO's PvP is more like a closed private community,as you really wont know whats going on and where, unless you are in that scene. If you are just trolling the ques and Ker'rat chances are you are clueless how deep the scene really goes.