Yo Bort, could you remove cannon distance penalities?

dahminus · May 2014

It's a hidden mechanic that I am quite sure most of the playerbase (especially non forum goers) don't even know about.

It would be an amazing change to weaken or outright this rather unneeded mechanic.

Who's with me?

http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpress.com/articles-3/weapon-ranges/#summary

Not the spreadsheet I was looking for but damn...check them numbers out

rosetyler51 · May 2014

Sounds like an Escort buff soooo......HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no

I would rather have more info being put into the game about that and other lesser known parts of the game.

baelogventure · May 2014

Yeah man, can't buff Escorts when people are too content to A2B + FAW in Cruisers.

shadowwraith77 · May 2014

Use DHC's, their dropoff isn't so badly noticed.

baudl · May 2014

rather have the max range of cannons reduced...that way you'd need to get closer, but at the same time hit harder.

wouldn't even change much, since most experianced cannon users wait until they are closer than 10km anyway these days.
newbies would probably benefit from this "restriction"

dahminus · May 2014

rosetyler51 wrote: »

Sounds like an Escort buff soooo......HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no

I would rather have more info being put into the game about that and other lesser known parts of the game.

Do you even play anymore? Beams and cruisers been thumping escorts and cannons forever now...get with the times bro....

Removing the mechanic all over would be rather awesome

burstorion · May 2014

I'd maybe agree to non dhc/turret cannons getting the distance penalty dropped to, say, beam array distance (7km) in order to give them a unique difference to dhcs (which could be argued that dhcs fire a larger shot that dissapates its energy faster if you needed a reason) that would give them more viability in a build other than 'dhc and turrets' as you could use them at longer rage, thus creating a nice difference in events, such as 'jousting'

tpalelena · May 2014

burstorion wrote: »

I'd maybe agree to non dhc/turret cannons getting the distance penalty dropped to, say, beam array distance (7km) in order to give them a unique difference to dhcs (which could be argued that dhcs fire a larger shot that dissapates its energy faster if you needed a reason) that would give them more viability in a build other than 'dhc and turrets' as you could use them at longer rage, thus creating a nice difference in events, such as 'jousting'

I agree, DCs need a boost. Though I think they should get a 90 firing arc rather.

admiralcarter · May 2014

The neverending circle of buffing / nerfing would be complete if they do this.

A few years back they modified cannons to get a hold of the insane burst damage they did back in the day. People were screaming for a nerf so it did happen.

Now people screaming for a buff, so they can scream for a nerf again as soon as the Burst Damage is back...

:rolleyes:

virusdancer · May 2014

Kind of curious to what extent the Falloff still exists in the game...and whether it should be done away with entirely for both Cannons and Beams. With the introduction of the Apex Sniper Cannon which does not suffer Falloff...hrmm, one is left to wonder if Cannons and Beams shouldn't be balanced without the Falloff. I'm kind of curious if Cryptic believes the weapons to still be balanced based on the way the arcs, drain, falloff, rate of fire, damage, special(s), and limit(s) were done with the last balance pass...

noblet · May 2014

The irony is, according to Star Trek canon, pulse weapons supposedly have longer ranges and less energy dissipation over distance than beam weapons. Unifying range to 10km have its game mechanic rationale, but reversing the distance penalty between the two seems unnecessary, especially given the current state of beams and cannons.

shadowwraith77 · May 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_in_Star_Trek

Good bit of information regarding weapons.

According to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual, disruptor weapons generally carry more energy than standard phaser weapons but lack in accuracy and fast discharge.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Disruptor_cannon

I was not aware of this.

"The Pulse Phaser is an advanced heavy weapon designed for a high rate of fire and a high damage yield ... The Pulse Phaser was developed by Starfleet as a weapon to combat future Borg incursions and was first fitted onto the prototype U.S.S. Defiant. The device functions similarly to a standard Phaser, but without a continuous beam. The energy emissions are instead stored in a magnetic field, allowing them to coalesce and agitate to higher energy states. The field is then redirected, forcing the burst of Phaser energy toward the target. This process is repeated rapidly using multiple magnetic field generators, and the result is a stream of phased energy projectiles. Although the range of such a weapon is much less than the standard Phaser due to rapid dissipation, from close range the pulse Phaser can do more damage than most Phaser types. The weapon has since been adapted to function on most Federation ships."

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phaser_cannon

I wonder if disruptors behave this way?

The starship-mounted Federation cannon was classified as an optronically targeted phaser. (VOY: "Live Fast and Prosper") It was presumably first introduced in the Defiant-class starship. (DS9: "The Search, Part I") In the mirror universe, the Defiant phaser cannons were called multi-targeting phaser banks by the Klingons. (DS9: "Shattered Mirror")

The four cannons of the Defiant-class were usually seen firing phaser bolts simultaneously in short rapid-fire bursts and in only one direction. The cannons could also fire beams. (DS9: "Destiny") Against Jem'Hadar fighters, the combined firepower of the four phaser cannons of the Defiant were almost equally as effective compared to the combined firepower of two wing-mounted disruptor cannons of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. (DS9: "Favor the Bold")

Very interesting.

gooddaytodie39 · May 2014

Yes! Good idea we can go back to Escorts online. I'm serious no sarcasm intended. Cruiser bfaw spacebar online is boring as hell. Also, it is a hidden mechanic isn't it? If anything, it should be mentioned in detail in the tool tip for DHCs, right?
Maybe they could add that as a rep trait in the next rep system? THE PVP REP SYSTEM!! Ya buddies!

killdozer9211 · May 2014

I think the dropoff is actually a nice mechanic to have included, but I enjoy nuanced gameplay.

I say add to the competing differences between beams and canons.

Canons get a dmg drop off over distance, beams get an acc drop off over distance.

Surely we can technobabble that out.

rosetyler51 · May 2014

dahminus wrote: »

Do you even play anymore? Beams and cruisers been thumping escorts and cannons forever now...get with the times bro....

Removing the mechanic all over would be rather awesome

I still play but I don't think the best way to counter cruiser cheese is the return of escort cheese. If Escorts get this I want the return of Old Science. All 3 ship types can be cheesy and we then call it Cheese Online.

orangeitis · May 2014

I thought there was a cannon distance bonus, rather than a penalty. We do get a bonus when we're close to a target, right?

rosetyler51 wrote: »

Sounds like an Escort buff soooo......HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no

How? Cannons can be used by almost every ship type.

noblet · May 2014

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_in_Star_Trek

Good bit of information regarding weapons.

According to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual, disruptor weapons generally carry more energy than standard phaser weapons but lack in accuracy and fast discharge.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Disruptor_cannon

I was not aware of this.

"The Pulse Phaser is an advanced heavy weapon designed for a high rate of fire and a high damage yield ... The Pulse Phaser was developed by Starfleet as a weapon to combat future Borg incursions and was first fitted onto the prototype U.S.S. Defiant. The device functions similarly to a standard Phaser, but without a continuous beam. The energy emissions are instead stored in a magnetic field, allowing them to coalesce and agitate to higher energy states. The field is then redirected, forcing the burst of Phaser energy toward the target. This process is repeated rapidly using multiple magnetic field generators, and the result is a stream of phased energy projectiles. Although the range of such a weapon is much less than the standard Phaser due to rapid dissipation, from close range the pulse Phaser can do more damage than most Phaser types. The weapon has since been adapted to function on most Federation ships."

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phaser_cannon

I wonder if disruptors behave this way?

The starship-mounted Federation cannon was classified as an optronically targeted phaser. (VOY: "Live Fast and Prosper") It was presumably first introduced in the Defiant-class starship. (DS9: "The Search, Part I") In the mirror universe, the Defiant phaser cannons were called multi-targeting phaser banks by the Klingons. (DS9: "Shattered Mirror")

The four cannons of the Defiant-class were usually seen firing phaser bolts simultaneously in short rapid-fire bursts and in only one direction. The cannons could also fire beams. (DS9: "Destiny") Against Jem'Hadar fighters, the combined firepower of the four phaser cannons of the Defiant were almost equally as effective compared to the combined firepower of two wing-mounted disruptor cannons of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. (DS9: "Favor the Bold")

Very interesting.

Actually, Defiant's quad phaser cannons work on different principles as any other cannon. It's a class of itself. The first cannon used by humans are pulse cannons of the Enterprise, before Federation was formed. It has longer range, and is a type of particle weapon like cannons of energy types other than "phaser."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_in_Star_Trek

For lols:
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSW-WeaponRange-Trek.html

induperator · May 2014

dahminus wrote: »

It's a hidden mechanic that I am quite sure most of the playerbase (especially non forum goers) don't even know about.

It would be an amazing change to weaken or outright this rather unneeded mechanic.

Who's with me?

http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpress.com/articles-3/weapon-ranges/#summary

Not the spreadsheet I was looking for but damn...check them numbers out

Are you joking?

The game is unbalanced enough already, Escorts practically dominate the game and you want them to be even more powerful?

Without Auxiliary to Battery Beams are useless compared to cannons this mechanic is one of the only things that help to balance out the massive DPS of cannons and by removing it you practically make every other single weapon in the game obsolete and I'm honestly tired of all the cannon spamming escorts in this game that have dominated if for years.

fakefive · May 2014

induperator wrote: »

Are you joking?

The game is unbalanced enough already, Escorts practically dominate the game and you want them to be even more powerful?

Without Auxiliary to Battery Beams are useless compared to cannons this mechanic is one of the only things that help to balance out the massive DPS of cannons and by removing it you practically make every other single weapon in the game obsolete and I'm honestly tired of all the cannon spamming escorts in this game that have dominated if for years.

Plus One. duh.

jellico1 · May 2014

Cannon scatter volley

Cannon rapid fire

verses.........beam fire at will

Beam overload..............pvp only skill useless in PvE

Cannons have the edge with to very useful skills Beam only hve 1 skill to choose..its balenced in the cannons favor right now

Cannons really get over on procs using CRF gettin 2X the proc chance over beams on single targets and use less power

and the range 9.5 dmage on my DHC's compares to my Beams according to the damage floaters

noblet · May 2014

induperator wrote: »

Are you joking?

The game is unbalanced enough already, Escorts practically dominate the game and you want them to be even more powerful?

Without Auxiliary to Battery Beams are useless compared to cannons this mechanic is one of the only things that help to balance out the massive DPS of cannons and by removing it you practically make every other single weapon in the game obsolete and I'm honestly tired of all the cannon spamming escorts in this game that have dominated if for years.

You're 2 years out of date. It's faw online now. Oh, and beams run at 125+ fine without a2b.:rolleyes:

majortiraomega · May 2014

noblet wrote: »

Oh, and beams run at 125+ fine without a2b.:rolleyes:

The only reason this happens is because of Omega Weapon Amplifier giving near permanent Nadion Inversion to all players.

nccmark · May 2014

dahminus wrote: »

Who's with me?

REDACTED. It sounded too mean. But I am sick of this question.

doffingcomrade · May 2014

Honestly, I'm not sure what the logic of cannons having extreme falloff was.

I propose that instead of extreme raw damage falloff, have the damage falloff be very small to none, BUT have the accuracy fall off instead, so we'll see a lot less "long range homing cannonballs", because more of those will be deemed misses instead (Yes, I know this is a crappy graphics effect and that outcome is determined well in advance).

lordsteve1 · May 2014

I think the suggestion of removing falloff from single cannons and possibly DC's would be quite interesting. It would open up a new area of builds utilising some of the most underused weapons available.

dahminus · May 2014

nccmark wrote: »

REDACTED. It sounded too mean. But I am sick of this question.

Because you can't day no?

/fist pump

Unknown · May 2014

This content has been removed.

noblet · May 2014

edalgo wrote: »

That would be interesting. Single cannons do more damage than arrays but the overcapping mechanism and the combo + turrets puts a beam build way in front.

Single cannons + dual cannons need love

Single cannons have lower arc. All weapon dmg is scaled to arc, and that would've achieved balance, but Cryptic added different dmg falloff that screwed it up.:rolleyes:

dragonsbrethren · May 2014

Sounds good to me.

dontdrunkimshoot · May 2014

the only change on drop offs thats needed is that cannons should deal full damage out to range 3, and have the same drop off angle start there

hasukurobi · May 2014

I would support giving an Accuracy boost to all weapons the closer you got and then a slowly building accuracy penalty as you moved away. To add to this because Dual Heavy and Dual Cannons are affixed (apparently) they should get an accuracy penalty under 5KM instead of an accuracy boost. So they would be at normal accuracy at 5KM to 7KM and then start taking a penalty where everything else would get a boost under 5KM and a penalty at 7KM and above.

No real direct damage modification though.

Yo Bort, could you remove cannon distance penalities?

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