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After looking at the story for SW:TOR...
mli777
Member Posts: 90 Arc User
I must say, Cryptic at least didn't utterly nerf existing characters.
How the hell did uber-force users like the Exile and Revan just die so pathetically?!?!? And Scourge being the Hero of the Republic...WTF?
Thank goodness I never got interested in TOR.
PS: And their F2P/P2P system utterly sucks, too... STO is not that great, but compared to TOR....(shudders)
How the hell did uber-force users like the Exile and Revan just die so pathetically?!?!? And Scourge being the Hero of the Republic...WTF?
Thank goodness I never got interested in TOR.
PS: And their F2P/P2P system utterly sucks, too... STO is not that great, but compared to TOR....(shudders)
USS Canada
N.C.C. 171867
Sovereign Class
Saint John Fleet Yard
"A Mari Usque Ad Mare"
N.C.C. 171867
Sovereign Class
Saint John Fleet Yard
"A Mari Usque Ad Mare"
Post edited by mli777 on
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As I recall Revan never did die.
And the Exile's demise....that was quite pathetic, to say the least.
N.C.C. 171867
Sovereign Class
Saint John Fleet Yard
"A Mari Usque Ad Mare"
Completely throws out the idea that Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun were Sith Lords. That there was actually a "True" Sith hiding out in the Unknown Regions and that these main antagonists in the stories were pretenders.
Sorry, but Exar Kun was twice the Sith Lord as any of these jokers in TOR. His double-bladed lightsaber was the inspiration for Darth Maul's lightsaber, several years before TPM came out.
I also found it extremely unlikely that this secret Sith fleet could be built over a period of several generations before hitting Coruscant. The "Sacking of Coruscant" further hurt my inner SW fanboy because I found it extremely unlikely that the Sith would be able to mount such an attack on the planet -- or that they would leave the job half-finished on purpose.
This whole "Sith Emperor" thing was further insult, because now there's a seemingly immortal Emperor that we rarely ever see. An actual 'Sith Council', which to me seemed ludicrous because the whole idea of being Sith was that everyone was self-serving and constantly TRIBBLE each other over.
Also the chiss were thrown in the Empire. Because why not? TRIBBLE established story that shows the Chiss were extremely rare and isolationist xenophobes in the middle of nowhere.
The biggest insult though? Lightsabers.
They're the coolest most awesomest weapon in Star Wars, and if you play a SW video game you kind of expect a lightsaber to act just like a lightsaber. You slice and dice through things like a hot knife through butter.
But in TOR for gameplay balance reasons they function more like batons. You just beat a Jawa over the head with a lightsaber enough times like a police brutality scene until it dies.
Yeah, and I'm a big badass Mary Sue Sith Lord with a lightsaber who is trying to take control of the galaxy, but I'm here on this backwater planet called Tatooine killing Jawas because fan service.
They try to explain it in the lore as the whole galaxy is accustomed to jedi and sith everywhere so everybody and their sister wears special lightsaber-resistant plot armor. But to me it really just speaks of bad game design. There were so many ways to make players feel like their lightsabers were lightsabers instead of bludgeoning instruments, while retaining a healthy gameplay balance design.
I also don't think the Sith would ever call a truce with the Republic. Not even for some extremely convoluted master plan. The classic plot for Star Wars was the fight between good and evil.
Evil people wanted to control the entire galaxy. Good people wanted to free the galaxy. This 'truce' for a Star Wars MMO robs the franchise of a little more substance that made it so well-received to begin with.
There's actually a reason for those un sith things. While the emperor was trying to break revan's mind he underestimated revan's power and his mind was influenced to believe that a truce with the republic was better than crushing them.
That seems like the exact same bad writing and convoluted 'plot' that has plagued the SW franchise for years, as a result of.. even more bad writing and convoluted plot.
Given Revan's 'amnesia', SW turned into a really shoddy soap opera some time ago.
It is a curiosity, to be certain. But then, most every MMO that ever offered a sharp sword, including STO, has the weapons unable to really slice-and-dice. Not only is that "gameplay balance", but it quiets those families whose children play, and that, of course, lets more revenue flow.
Palpatine never would have settled for being second-best. That was part of the allure of the dark side. That you could sacrifice your humanity for ultimate power (Palpatine was the metaphorical example, with his disdain for the galaxy and his willingness to oppress all in his realm. Vader was the very literal example, being more machine than man). Outside of the really dumb plot of the prequels (at least their intricacies, if you want to call it that), Palpatine was a master manipulator. But he never tipped his hand.
That was why he was so dangerous. He was a Kingmaker before he became King.
With the TOR-era Sith though... there is no ultimate power for them. Only vagueries of it in the form of the Sith Emperor, but even the Sith Council were really just puppets, they did not embody the Sith I had come to watch in the movies or in the comics.
They were perfectly fine with settling for second-place. They were fine with compromises. With the Sith though... I never saw that in their nature.
Even the Dark Empire comics showed Palpatine in a new way. He no longer had to hide behind political intrigue -- the Galaxy knew what he was now. He simply switched to brute force and shock and awe attacks, since he had no further reason to hide who he was.
That's the problem I see with the Sith Empire co-existing with the Republic. Neither side is going to settle for a truce with their hated enemy, not when the movies shown the Sith have always been an 'all-or-nothing' antagonist.
The galaxy knows for a fact how evil the Sith are. That they would even tolerate sharing territory with them is about as ridiculous as Admiral Daala being named Head-of-State for the New Republic.
Oh sure. But then again I'm going to say that all of the fantasy movies and table-top RPGs had armor and whatnot and swords were seldomly seen with the power of a lightsaber.
To me it's a mix between aesthetics and nostalgia. The lightsabers on TOR ruin the nostalgia and the aesthetics for gameplay balance.
Even on the Azura when I am level 4 I cannot talk down an Orion with 1 shot - and Brutes might take 4 or 5.
It's a different franchise. You see phasers and whatnot just knock people over or disintegrate them entirely. They've been used as tools. But they've never been revered in the same way lightsabers are.
Phasers have never had the cultural signifigance that lightsabers do. That's kind of my point. Even George Lucas recognized how popular the lightsaber was in the prequels by trying to shove them in every possible scene to the point of cliche.
But when I pick up a SW game for example, and my character has a lightsaber -- I'm going to expect the game to at least make an attempt to emulate what they were capable of in the movies. TOR doesn't even try. It's a glowy baton you bludgeon things with.
Star Wars canon works differently. This is canon.
The best example is still a "sniper rifle" with a shorter range then I can throw a stone...
Or 10 km weapon range of space weapons. Some things we have to live with...
Mickey Mouse says differently.
I would rather STO's ground combat be a bit more twitch - in that characters should need to avoid getting hit rather then simply sucking it up. I would like to see a lot more Kirk Rolls and diving behind various types of cover; and where 1 or 2 weapopn hits will end the encounter rather then 10 or 20 - with Punching taking a couple of more hits. I really cannot envision Kirk and Kruge standing 10 feet apart and shooting each other over and over until one drops. It just feels very un-Trek to me.
But I accept that STO is an MMO rather then a SIM and I just accept it.
scourge and revan were in together as a team a few hundred years back but a number of years after the events of kotor, bastila and revan had a child together, and with bastila elsewhere, the rest of the ebon hawk's crew went with revan to stop the emperor along with surik (the exile), and discovered scourge along the way, at first the team were not sure what to make of scourge but from his end he realized that the emperor plans on devouring the entire galaxy to keep his immortality which you discover in that storyline on tor and various flashpoints that show revan was very much alive but insane and his crew were killed by the emperor however his life ended in the mortal sense (not sure if he actually died or he purposely turned himself into pure force energy for a later time to come back. at the time the team tried to defeat the emperor but it didnt happen. scourge received a vision from well into the future about a jedi who would defeat the emperor and a few hundred years later he willingly helps in defeating the emperor as the emperor plans once again on another culling of worlds for his immortality.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Even the Bounty hunter Irks me.Why give him a jet pack, when he only uses it for 2 special attacks.
I have played other Star Wars games where using a Jump Trooper, or Bounty Hunter with a Jet pack could use it to get around the battlefield.
The stupid part is, KOTOR does try. In there, it takes three or four hits AT MOST to defeat the toughest non-boss opponents. And it doesn't look like you're directly slicing through the enemy (except with unarmed opponents, which are either animals or die to the first hit, if I remember correctly), which is almost always the case with TOR's animations.
Edit: My point is that Bioware knows how to try to do it, they just flat out refused to bother with it because of (presumably) issues with game mechanics.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Well I guess if they made the lightsabers more lightsaber like than we would be cutting the bosses in half and their torso would still be fighting.
As someone mentioned earlier STO is the same way. No matter how or where you hit them they will just act like nothing ever happened.
I do understand what Iconians is talking about but I just can't see any way to implement it into TOR without having body parts fly everywhere and the enemy still fighting.
I can see it now, a little child playing an MMO where swords actually cut, then mommy walks into the room, looks on the screen and sees a pile of arms, legs, and heads around a boss. Then mommy uninstalls the game and the company doesn't get money.
What MMO with hack-n-slash action has a rating of E? I'm not aware of any.
Shame the MMO is so terrible. The second game was badass.
We were also robbed of a proper resolution to the storyline of the bounty hunter and the Wookiee, as well as the tale of why exactly G0-T0 zapped that little remote droid, and why then - after it had fulfilled its instructions, but before it could report back. And probably at least half a dozen other plot threads I've forgotten about over the years, that were dropped because LucasArts wanted the game in stores in time for Christmas...
In traditional thinking regarding boss encounters, yes. Thankfully, we have talented game designers that go to college and come up with some really fantastic ideas on how to make boss encounters challenging without the cookie cutter "beat it till it dies".
That's uninspired TRIBBLE that is choking the game industry. Risks aren't being taken as much anymore for the sake of the bottom line.
They go with what is known to work for game design -- not something new. Not something people haven't seen before.
Boss encounters can be done in video games without sacrificing the aesthetics of lightsaber combat you expect to see in the movies. I'm sure there are plenty of developers out there with the right kind of outside-the-box thinking that could see a more 'faithful' lightsaber in TOR without unbalancing the gameplay or its mechanics.
Unfortunately, those devs don't work at BioWare -- and if they do their ideas are promptly shot down because it's too risky.
We've seen what happens when you allow players to cut limbs like there is no tomorrow and attempt to make it challenging.
It's called the Dead Space Franchise and we already got sick of it by the second game.
There is no real conceivable way to both allow lightsabers to be insta cuts that also challenging.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I think I could make it entirely conceivable if given the time and money. And if I can, I'm sure there are much more talented game designers out there that could.
It comes down to companies not willing to invest in such things in order to play it safe. That's why we have sequel after sequel after sequel for games. They're too scared to give us something new. There's no willingness to take risks.
You're thinking of the Telos base. Tanis was an NPC from the first game. And yes, there was an entire planet cut from the final game. HK-50s were supposed to attack you randomly like the turret sequences from the first game, Bao-Dur was supposed to take you to the artic base through citadel station instead of the Czerka base, Atris was supposed to be in possession of the Exiles original lightsaber, there was a sequence where Dessicus blows up Jekk'Jekk Tarr, all of the characters (if you had them) were going to appear in the tomb on Korriban, the entire Nihilus fight was originally about 3-4 times longer with a much larger lightsaber battle, Visas and Mandalore were going to have a deeper relationship, you also had the option to crash the Ravager into Telos, HK-47 was supposed to show up during the face off between G0-T0 and Remote, Mira was going to have a much larger role, Sion and Nihilus were going to have a huge fight with each other.... yes, I know all of this stuff already and more. Believe me, I am much more upset about it than you are.
Still a good game though.
You've never played Jedi Knight 2 have you?
Isn't that the game where hitscan weapons fired from BVR magically miss Jedi because **** you?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Mhmm.
No one can make using a lightsaber both cool and challenging. The cool aspect of the weapon is in it's seriously deadly nature and the cool sound effects it makes. >.>
Also seeing Iconian say "I can, I can" but not offering actual suggestion, that's textbook armchair development. If you, or anyone else for that matter, can design this fabled lightsaber game, do it. Indie Game Development scene is on the rise and with tools like Steam's Greenlight program and and that "Project Spark" thing, you literally have zero excuse not to. Game companies are no longer the sole source of investment backing anymore. You have Kickstarter and Indie GoGo now.
If you think you can create a challenging game with insta kill weaponry be fun and not repetitive or require any sort of "hit till dead" mechanic, by all means, show the industry how it's done. Do it.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Apparently Bioware wanted to make a KotOR MMO, not a Jedi Knight MMO.
and this one too