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Dyson Rep weapons are wrong. Cryptic made a mistake.
emacsheadroom
Member Posts: 994 Arc User
I'm going to put forth an argument here. I'm not going to claim that I am 100% correct on this (although I believe I am), and I'm not going to say Cryptic should correct the errors as I see them (although I believe they should). To put it simply: Protonic Polarons should have been Protonic Phasers.
Why? Three reasons:
1. We have enough polaron weapon variants and other weapons that use the polaron proc, including:
Phased Polaron
Dominion Polaron
Polarized Disruptor
We have Elite Fleet Phasers. We also have Phased Polarons and Spiral Wave Disruptors (exclusive weapons for Galor owners) for the phaser proc, but no other variants that have base Phaser damage. Phasers really need another variant.
2. The Dyson Rep weapons should be boosted by the Dyson Joint Command Technologies, but they aren't:
Because we already have the Jem'Hadar set. That's the problem with the lack of synergy in the Dyson rep. Players who use Protonic Polarons will want to max out their damage. Who wouldn't? There is no downside. You won't sacrifice CRTH for more damage by using the Jem'Hadar set, which is what Protonic Polarons are built around. The Dyson set is so lackluster that you don't really lose anything by using the Jem'Hadar engines and deflector instead. The only thing you lose is Proton Barrage and that is not as useful as 10-12% more damage per weapon for all Polaron weapons. The Dyson set just isn't as useful as most other sets because it doesn't add anything except decent shields and a decent third tier power that isn't worth sacrificing a better build for.
3. We have no space set that boosts Phasers:
The Dyson Space set was in a unique position to fill the need for a space set that boosted Phasers. We have a space set that boosts every other damage type now. Phasers honestly need the love. This would also have given the Dyson space set a two piece bonus that is actually useful and a reason to use it over other space sets. As stated before, it's weak compared to other space sets unless you use three or more pieces, or just the shield when fighting the Voth. In fact, it has better synergy with the Romulan Energy Harness or the Elachi Silent Enemy sets. It doesn't even boost Proton damage and has no real synergy with the Protonic Arsenal.
So I think Cryptic dropped the ball on this one. The Dyson Joint Command Technologies could have given new life to Phasers in space combat. It still can if Cryptic does something about it. Even just adding Protonic Phasers to the Dyson rep store and adding a Phaser damage bonus to the Dyson Joint Command Technologies would be enough to fix the problem as I see it.
Why? Three reasons:
1. We have enough polaron weapon variants and other weapons that use the polaron proc, including:
Phased Polaron
Dominion Polaron
Polarized Disruptor
We have Elite Fleet Phasers. We also have Phased Polarons and Spiral Wave Disruptors (exclusive weapons for Galor owners) for the phaser proc, but no other variants that have base Phaser damage. Phasers really need another variant.
2. The Dyson Rep weapons should be boosted by the Dyson Joint Command Technologies, but they aren't:
Because we already have the Jem'Hadar set. That's the problem with the lack of synergy in the Dyson rep. Players who use Protonic Polarons will want to max out their damage. Who wouldn't? There is no downside. You won't sacrifice CRTH for more damage by using the Jem'Hadar set, which is what Protonic Polarons are built around. The Dyson set is so lackluster that you don't really lose anything by using the Jem'Hadar engines and deflector instead. The only thing you lose is Proton Barrage and that is not as useful as 10-12% more damage per weapon for all Polaron weapons. The Dyson set just isn't as useful as most other sets because it doesn't add anything except decent shields and a decent third tier power that isn't worth sacrificing a better build for.
3. We have no space set that boosts Phasers:
The Dyson Space set was in a unique position to fill the need for a space set that boosted Phasers. We have a space set that boosts every other damage type now. Phasers honestly need the love. This would also have given the Dyson space set a two piece bonus that is actually useful and a reason to use it over other space sets. As stated before, it's weak compared to other space sets unless you use three or more pieces, or just the shield when fighting the Voth. In fact, it has better synergy with the Romulan Energy Harness or the Elachi Silent Enemy sets. It doesn't even boost Proton damage and has no real synergy with the Protonic Arsenal.
So I think Cryptic dropped the ball on this one. The Dyson Joint Command Technologies could have given new life to Phasers in space combat. It still can if Cryptic does something about it. Even just adding Protonic Phasers to the Dyson rep store and adding a Phaser damage bonus to the Dyson Joint Command Technologies would be enough to fix the problem as I see it.
Post edited by emacsheadroom on
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Comments
There is only one mistake that I found with the Dyson Weapons. They should be Polaronic Proton weapons instead of Protonic Polaron Weapons. The Dyson set buffs Proton damage, but there is only one weapon that only does Proton damage and the other Protonic weapons just do it as a proc.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Silent Enemy set buffs disruptors. This set is available to all. Same with Singularity harness. There is no reason to make a Federation-exclusive set that buffs phasers.
Phased Tetryons don't really count because tetryon is their based damage which is buffed by the Tholian set. Retrofit phasers while nice to look at are still just slightly weaker standard phasers with one proc.
There is no evidence that the Solanae used Polaron technology either.
Cardassian ships still use disruptors with the phaser proc, that means the Silent enemy set buffs them. Right now, there are not even any weapons with phaser damage as their base that have a second proc (meaning boosted by phaser relays and a space set).
Let's look at all the disruptor weapons that are boosted by the silent enemy set:
Nanite Disruptors
Spiral Wave Disruptors
Elachi Weapons
Polarized Disruptors
Disruptors have enough love. KDF does not need a disruptor buffing space set.
I'd choose "Phased Proton" weapons. Phasers need the love.
Would make more sense if they used Tetryon weapons, but the main evidence that they use Polaron technology is that we have Protonic Polaron weapons through the Dyson Reputation. The equipment from the Dyson Reputation is based on technology reverse engineered from the Dyson Sphere. Never encountered a Protonic Phaser weapon or any other type of Phaser Weapon on the Dyson Sphere besides the ones brought from the Alpha Quadrant. Until there is a Dyson Sphere weapon that does Phaser damage, then there is absolutely zero proof of the Solanae using Phaser technology. Therefore, you want a Phaser boosting set shoehorned into any old set even if it makes absolutely zero sense for it to buff phasers.
Cardassian ships use a combination of Dual Phaser Beam Banks, Photon Torpedoes, and Spiral Wave Disruptors. Spiral Wave Disruptors are effectively Phased Disruptors. The Terran Empire ships only use phaser weapons. Sets based on these ships whether it be through the Lobi Store or Reputation system make sense for a set that buffs Phasers.
The major problem with the Silent Enemy set is that it requires 400 Lobi to get the Disruptor bonus and use up 2 weapons and/or console slot to get the bonus. So having the Honor Guard set buff Disruptors as well as Torpedo damage will give players more choices.
Doesn't really matter whether it is phased proton or polaronic proton weapons. Although, I am not really sure why you want phased proton weapons since you want weapons that deal phaser damage and the phaser proc is not your concern.
Do you not see the circular reasoning you just used? If Cryptic had made Protonic Phasers instead of Protonic Polarons for the Dyson Rep, your statement would be:
but the main evidence that they use Phaser technology is that we have Protonic Phaser weapons through the Dyson Reputation.
The only reason the Solanae use polaron tech is because CRYPTIC MADE THEM THAT WAY. Cryptic could just as easily change that. I said at the beginning that Protonic Polarons should be Protonic Phasers and the Dyson space set should buff Phasers. Retcon the whole thing. Then it all fits together. That was the point of my thread. Your entire argument about "evidence" is worthy of a facepalm of epic proportions.
At this stage I'd love to see a Cardassian or Mirror space set that boosted phasers.
And people would cry nerf if someone used both sets. Every damage type gets one set that boosts it, except for Phasers.
Well a name's just a name. "Phased Proton Beam" sounds cooler than "Protonic Phaser Beam" to me.
Protified Polaroid is purely a Voth Rep item, and there's no indication it is salvaged or adapted Solanae tech at all, rather than some kind of thing made by the Sphere Force.
It is adapted technology. Anything that came from the Dyson Sphere and uses Proton damage is Solanae based technology since the Dyson Console pic has the Solanae look to it and the console buffs proton damage.
Then we wouldn't be having this argument now would we. Correct CRYPTIC MADE THEM THAT WAY. Cryptic decides which energy type which enemy uses as long as it doesn't violate Canon. There is a reason why only Protonic Polaron weapons exist and not Protonic Tetryon, Protonic Disruptor, or Protonic Plasma. Either the Solanae had these weapons with them or Proton Energy is not stable with other energy types, but either way this is just a lore response.
Although, you seem to be mistaken about something. Cryptic introduced a new damage type. The Dyson Sphere affects this new damage type. If Cryptic decides to follow your advice and change the Dyson set to buff Phasers instead of Proton, then people will be ticked off. Currently, the only ways to buff Proton damage is through the Dyson Console and Auto-targeting Tactical Consoles and with the Auto-targeting consoles, you are sacrificing your dps due to splitting your damage between two different energy types so you get 15% Proton Damage and 20% Polaron Damage per Tactical Console and 13.1% for the Proton Damage buff from the Dyson Console. With 4 consoles (3 Tactical and 1 Science or Engineering) used that comes to 73.1% Proton Damage and 60% Polaron Damage. Now with 3 Tactical consoles used you get 95.7% Phaser Damage. Considering that the Proton Damage only considers 1 Beam and a bunch of procs, then it is doubtful that Proton Damage even composes 10% of a player's total energy damage compared to the Polaron Damage. So Proton Weapons need all the help they can get due to a lack of Proton weapons. 25% on a Crit does not make a weapon a Proton weapon since with a 20% crit chance, the chance for there to be proton damage is 5% and not everyone even has a 20% crit chance. So 1 Proton Weapon obtained through a reputation system compared to regular Phasers, Advanced Phasers, Elite Phasers, and Retrofit Phasers in all variations makes the case for changing the Dyson Console from Proton to Phaser lacking sympathy. Proton Weapons need love not Phaser Weapons.
There should be a way to Buff Phasers through some Universal Console or Set, but the Dyson Set is not the way to do it due to there only being no Tactical Consoles that just buff Proton damage. Currently Phasers and Disruptors have no universal consoles or sets that buff their damage and every other damage type has one set or universal console that buffs it. My guess is that Cryptic is going to add those sets to some future content like a Federation and Klingon Reputation, Cardassian Reputation, Mirror Universe Reputation, or some future Reputation that we have no knowledge of.
So what's wrong with changing the lore so that the weapons are Protonic Phasers? Oh right, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying and unwittingly straw-manning my argment:
No, you seem to be mistaken about something. In fact it has become abundantly clear that you can't see the forest for the trees.
I said from the very beginning that Cryptic should change the Dyson Joint Command Technologies Two-piece bonus so that it buffs Phaser damage. Then change Protonic Polarons to Protonic Phasers. I never ever said Cryptic should alter the Protonic Arsenal set. That should buff Proton damage as usual.
I have to conclude that you're barely even reading my argument. Hence I can ignore your argument now, since you're straw-manning my argument out of a lack of reading comprehension on your part, or you're deliberately trolling me.
I read your post. Just what is the problem? You never actually state one.
Here would be a sample 'problem'.
Phasers are no longer a viable energy type as other energy types have been granted greater damage potential.
That's a problem. Here is another sample.
Phasers are no longer a viable energy type as other weapons types carry the same proc as phasers and have been granted a greater damage potential.
That's a problem. And once again.
I want more phaser damage.
That's a problem as well. Just its your problem.
So first, bring a real issue to the table. And then perhaps you can construct an argument. Or you can just post things like 'circular reasoning' and 'straw man' and look very nice in print.
Don't forget to check out the items that would become unbalanced if you granted a set that gave a boost to phaser damage. They are out there, and although they may not be a deciding factor your failure to consider them as part of your argument points out that your post is more of an opinion piece than an actual reasoned proposal.
A broader change might be to lock each damage type to their respective faction and add a hybrid of every type (e.g. Tetryon Disruptors for KDF, Plasma Phasers for FED, Polarized Plasma for Romulans).
The main problem is that this new and shiny rep set benefits a weapon type which does not exist. There is a single proton weapon in the game and it's limited to one piece per vessel. What were they thinking? The proc isn't all that great that I would use protonic polarons instead of AP and protons with the obelisk 2pc set. I tried the protonic polarons, because I got plenty for free, but to be honest, they aren't really that great, at least if you want to use the dyson set.
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I was interpreting that you wanted to change the buff Proton damage to buff Phaser damage and the only thing that buffs proton damage is Dyson Console and the Auto-Targeting Tactical Consoles. So now you are asking to change buff Inertial Dampeners and Power Insulators to buff Proton damage instead. Only the Jem'Hadar space set actually buffs an energy damage. The sets that buff energy damage are mostly the Weapon/Console sets. There are some space sets that buff torpedo damage, but no reputation set buffs energy damage. Some people might actually see the use out of Inertial Dampeners and Power Insulators especially in PvP and they will get ticked off at losing some of their protection.
Attacking the irrelevant parts of a post so you can try to convince yourself and others that your view is correct while ignoring the relevant parts just doesn't work. You think that Phasers are doing so poorly, but Proton only has one dedicated weapon available and no tactical consoles that buffs only proton damage.
Phasers are the only weapons that come in Elite Fleet variations for the Federation side. So they are not doing poorly. An Elite Fleet Phaser with the same bonuses as a Purple Phaser Mk XII is a much better weapon although it is debateable if it is better than the Advanced Fleet Phaser. The Elite Fleet Phaser is better than any hybrid weapon since hybrid weapons lose one of their bonuses to become a hybrid weapon. Therefore I stand by my statement, Proton damage needs love not Phaser damage.
In my first post, I pointed out that Proton/Tetryon weapons would be more relevant since the Solanae aliens use Tetryon Radiation. However Tetryon Damage is already used with the Refracting Tetryon weapons from the Nukara Reputation. The devs probably have a specific reputation in mind that have Phaser Hybrid weapons since there is no set that buffs Phaser damage. So the only thing I see from you is impatience since there are far more relevant reputations that Cryptic could add like Federation, Cardassian, or Terran Empire Reputations that give Phaser Hybrid weapons and a set that buffs Phaser damage than modifying a current reputation that has absolutely no link to Phaser technology.
The Dyson Sphere has no noticeable link to Polaron technology either, but obviously Cryptic wants one damage type per reputation and Tetryon was already taken which is why changing the weapons to Tetryon Proton weapons makes far more sense than Protonic Polaron, Polarized Proton, Protonic Phaser, or Phased Proton. There is only one weapon that primarily does Proton damage and there are no Tetryon X Hybrids. They are all X Tetryon Hybrids. Where X equals some energy damage type. The benefit with Tetryon Proton Weapons is that no changes are needed to any set, is canon, and there are finally Proton Weapons besides the Experimental Proton Beam.
I bet you gave yourself a big pat on the back after typing that. I did construct an argument. My argument is "Phasers have been left behind other weapons in terms of variants and sets that boost damage, and this discrepancy deserves to be corrected". My use of "circular reasoning" and "straw man" were perfectly valid to describe starkaos's cretinous attempt to argue against what I had to say. He doesn't know what he's argiung against, and it's clear that you're being his white-knight out of a sense of fair play. Except what you have to say is all posturing and no substance.
No, you can go and waste your own time checking them out and bringing them to my attention. If you want to shove those factors in my face, then you can go and find them for me. Don't tell me to waste my time looking for something that you vaguely allude to. Otherwise your counter-argument is a load of hot air.
No, I said I want it to boost Phasers. I'm starting to suspect that you have a learning disability.
So there is a precedent for a shield/deflector/engine set boosting an energy damage type. That's all that's necessary to justify making the Dyson Joint Command Technologies boost phaser damage. Slightly fewer points in inertial dampensers and power insulators won't suddenly make a player worse in pvp. Also, pvp is irellevant and should not even be considered as a counter argument. This is a pve game, and nothing is balanced for pvp anyway.
So do you understand what I've said? I want the DYSON JOINT COMMAND TECHNOLOGIES to boost PHASER damage. Repeat that sentence over in your head. Please try to remember what my argument is before you post, because your track record so far is abysmal.
I understant that buffing Proton weapons is your own personal wish, just like buffing Phaser weapons is my personal wish. So I suggest you go start your own thread about it and get out of mine. Telling me that Proton is more important than Phasers will not change my mind. You need to go and convince Cryptic that your argument is right. You won't convince me of anything, especially since you keep failing to properly read and understand what I've written before you start typing back.
Minor typo and it was an obvious one. It should have read "So now you are asking to change buff Inertial Dampeners and Power Insulators to buff Phaser damage instead." It seems you are unaware about what is contained within the Dyson Space Set since this is the 2-piece set bonus for it and want you want to change it. Personal attacks are not allowed on this forum.
Might have misread the first time, but try reading my post before insulting me since I was responding to the Dyson Space set. You have misread my post so it appears that you are not understanding my post. If you are going to attack my position, then get the facts straight. I will make it clear for you, my first responses was toward the Dyson Console which I admit was not proper reading, but my last post was directly oriented towards the Dyson Space set. If you failed to grasp that, then there is a lacking of reading and understanding from both of us.
No Reputation Space Set has ever buffed a energy damage type. There is only one space set that has and that is from the Jem'Hadar set which was before Reputation sets. Reputation Weapon/Console sets buff energy damage not Reputation space sets so these weapon/console sets appear to be the current method for buffing energy damage. Therefore, the most likely location for such a set is from a completely new Console/Weapon Set not a Space Set like a Mirror Universe Reputation Console/Weapon set or Cardassian Reputation Console/Weapon set not from the Dyson Space Set.
And you keep failing to properly read and understand that they are far more appropriate locations for a set that buffs phaser damage than a Reputation set that has been out for almost 2 months. I will say it one last time and maybe you will finally understand, a Cardassian Reputation or Mirror Universe Reputation makes far more sense to have Phaser Hybrids and Sets that buff Phaser damage than a current Reputation that has shown absolutely no evidence of any Phaser technology. Answer the following question. Why should the Dyson weapons and Dyson Space Set be changed when there are far more appropriate locations for your suggestion like a Cardassian Reputation, Mirror Universe Reputation, or Federation Reputation?
Phaser Weapons lacking any buffs is only your opinion. As I mentioned before Elite Phaser weapons are better than any other hybrid weapon due to the simple fact that it doesn't lose a bonus to get its additional affect.
There is absolutely no precedent for Cryptic to do these massive changes and numerous people might be irritated if such a change happens since players bought protonic polaron weapons not protonic phaser weapons. Although, more likely people will not care since there are far better weapons. While I agree that the Dyson Weapons should be changed, it should be Tetryon Proton Weapons and not Phased Proton or Protonic Phaser weapons, but I don't expect this to happen. Eventually there will be more Proton Weapons instead of just one just like eventually there will be Phaser Hybrids and a set that buffs without having to changing current content.
@starkaos
Precedent means nothing. Star Trek, like every other franchise, is utter fiction and there are no rules governing what can be other than those that we set for ourselves. The only thing that needs to be observed is internal consistency, but you can retcon everything and make it consistent. Phasers can be changed and the Dyson set can be changed. Their properties were created arbitrarily and they can be remade just as arbitrarily.
@emacsheadroom
You can't have people taking you seriously if you bite off their head when they say something that annoys or frustrates you. Yes, Cryptic did publish another rep set that boosts weapons other than phasers. Yes, phasers are massively ignored. And yes, they do need to address that, but why meddle with what's already there when you could just as easily create an entirely new set that includes a solution to this oversight?
That was going to be my last post due to my Sanity Points getting to critical levels. While it is fun to have that happen, it messes up any chance of having a productive social life and can cost thousands of dollars in replacing certain items like a computer.
Cryptic can change whatever they want in their game, but they follow a set of internal rules that we can only glimpse at. After all, we can't have Orcs, Elves, and Dragons in a Star Trek game without it being some type of Holodeck experience or Q messing with us. The only evidence I have seen of Cryptic changing sets or energy damage is the standard fixes to powers, giving npcs new weapons like changing the Phaser Weapons from a Cardassian ship to include the Spiral Wave Disruptor, and removing the Borg Console from the Borg Space Set. So while precedent means nothing, Cryptic does try to keep things consistent. Of course, there was the whole retcon with the B'Vat arc since the order of the missions were completely screwed up.
Anyway this will be my last post in this thread so I can restore my Sanity Points to my normal levels.
Which is why I said:
Cryptic set the rules for themselves, but that's Cryptic's prerogative to do so. That has no bearing on the rest of us. We are free to suggest changes as we please and we're not obligated to abide by Cryptic's internal rules.
Clearly, the answer is to have only a single weapon type in the game: "Caustic, Destabilizing, and Disruptively Polarizing Platonic Phaserizers". As for the procs, they'd be random and unreliable, leaving you wondering "Will they or won't they?" every time you fire. And sometimes, your weapons will even fire at each other.
And, of course, they'd be boosted to infinity by the Q Continuum Space Set's two-piece bonus whereas the three-piece bonus would be "Win the Game".
The Silent Enemy set is the Elachi set that you get for from the Lobi Store..