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[Kin] Kinetic consoles?
tosalen
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Just wondering if the devs ever explained why there's no [Kin] damage consoles?
Every other weapon type (cannon, beam, torpedo, mine), energy type (ap, polaron, phaser, tet etc) and torp/mine TYPE (photon, quantum, tricobal etc) is represented, but no [Kin] consoles for the actual damage-type kinetic.
They ever say why?
Every other weapon type (cannon, beam, torpedo, mine), energy type (ap, polaron, phaser, tet etc) and torp/mine TYPE (photon, quantum, tricobal etc) is represented, but no [Kin] consoles for the actual damage-type kinetic.
They ever say why?
Post edited by tosalen on
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Yeah but still, it's a damage type and a major one. Not like rad or ele which is very limited.
It really limits torp/mine combo'ing because of the console limitations for those kinds of weapons.
Um...there's no +Energy console either.
There are Specific Tac Consoles and Generic Tac Consoles.
Antiproton
Disruptor
Phaser
Plasma
Polaron
Tetryon
Cannon
Beam
All of those boost a type of Energy, not Energy itself. Even the Generics, boost Cannon Energy or Beam Energy...not Energy itself.
Chroniton
Photon
Plasma
Quantum
Transphasic
Tricobalt
Torpedo
Mine
Likewise, all of those boost a type of Kinetic, not Kinetic itself. Even the Generics, boost Torpedo Kinetic or Mine Kinetic.
There's no +Kinetic consoles just like there's no +Energy consoles.
It's no different than beam/cannon mixing...
Actually it is and your post proves it.
Antiproton, Disruptor, Phaser etc are all TYPES of damage regardless of what weapon is producing them.
Kinetic is a TYPE of damage regardless of what weapon is producing them.
I get the point you're trying to make, but at the end of the day. kinetic, like phaser, polaron, antiproton, disruptor, plasma is still a damage TYPE without a console that boosts that specific damage TYPE.
By showing that each specific energy weapon and each specific kinetic weapon has a specific console? By showing that each energy weapon class and each kinetic weapon class has a generic console?
Kinetic is not just Weapon Damage. It's also some forms of Exotic Damage. It's also the damage from Ramming Speed. There are types of Kinetic damage...just because there's a single Kinetic resist - face it, how many of your Energy resists are actually different? They could list a single Kinetic and Energy resist for the vast majority of players.
It's ludicrous to think that they would get rid of all the Projectile consoles and replace them with a single Kinetic console...
edit: Given there are the specific Projectile weapon consoles - one could say that each does have its own form of Kinetic damage...but that the resists for the different types of Kinetic are all the same. It's that simple to write off the argument you're trying to present.
LOL Relax dude, it was just a question. I also don't recall anyone asking them to shelve the other consoles in place of a [Kin].
So...specific energy consoles cover dbbs, cannons, and beam arrays.
You want something that covers torpedoes and mines.
I see what your asking for...if torps and mines actually mattered in this game you might get some traction in your request. But just because something "should" be in the game, doesn't mean it will be implemented.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
VR Mk XII Specific 30%
VR Mk XII Generic 20%
ATVx Mk XII Specific 31.9%
ATVx Mk XII Generic 27.9%
At what percentage do you believe they would introduce a Kinetic console? With it providing a boost to all Projectiles - all the specific types as well as both Torpedo and Mine...it would be lower than the Generic % for either of the above categories.
And again, it would just be Weapon Kinetic. To boost Exotic Kinetic you would still be looking at using Particle Generators.
So then one starts to look at how they would go about maximizing their Projectile damage by using such an extremely generic console instead of any sort of mix of current generics or specifics.
It was a world of difference before the ATVx consoles.
Say you had two Kinetic types (Quantum and Photon) and four Tac console slots.
If you ran 2+2 Specifics, you'd be boosting each by +60% strength/base. If you ran 4 Generics, you'd be boosting each by +80%. If you were just running a single type, with 4 Specifics you would have been looking at +120%. It's a loss of +40%. Say you wanted to work a mine launcher into that. You could run 3x Generic Torp to give each Torp the +60% while also tossing in a Specific Mine to give it +30%. Yes, you're losing out on the mine. It's one mine - how much of your build does it make up? Cause you could match the mine to a torp, go 2 Specifics giving the mine +60%, 2 Torp Generics giving the torps that match the mine +100% and the torps that don't +40%.
Along comes the ATVx consoles though. Let's run through the same scenarios from that last paragraph.
2+2 Specifics gives each +63.8%.
4 Generics gives each +111.6%.
4 Specifics gives each +127.6%.
3 Generics gives +83.7% and 1 Specific Mine 31.9%.
2 Specifics +63.8% for the mine, +119.6% for torps matching the mine, and +55.8% for those that don't.
With the 4 Generics, you could run all different types of Torps while only having a 16% loss (unmodified loss that is, the loss would increase with the use of bonus boosts). That's compared to the 40% loss experienced with the VR Mk XII consoles instead.
How much do the mines make up as part of the build - how much is one willing to sacrifice damage from elsewhere (thus lowering their overall damage) to buff the mines?
It's the same question that exists for folks running Energy looking at Projectiles. Do they bother even trying to buff them or do they just roll with them knowing they'll do more hull damage unbuffed than their Energy weapons anyway if used properly?
So at what point with the reduced % that a Kinetic console would have...would one just say that it's not going to work and it would be a waste of developer resources?
But that's the thing...
An AP console covers both Beams and Cannons.
A Quantum console covers both Torpedoes and Mines.
Just like a Beam console covers all Beams and a Cannon console covers all Cannons...
...and the Torpedo console covers all Torpedoes and a Mine console covers all Mines.
The OP's looking for something that covers all Torpedoes and all Mines...based on the argument that neither the Projectile Weapons nor the Defense tab list specific Kinetic types while for Energy Weapons and under the Defense tab it does for Energy.
But the existence of the specific Projectile consoles gives specificity to the Projectile weapons and the lack of explicit specific types of Kinetic resistance can be written off as it just being the same (which is the scenario that is most common for the Energy resists as well).
If you re-read my op, I'm not actually requesting anything, except if the devs ever said why there wasn't a [kin] console in game and explained why it doesn't make sense to me.
Got a guy running in here acting as if he's threatened at the idea of it happening and posting huge blocks of text and talking about a waste of dev resources and people reading into my very general question.
Was just curious if THEY ever said why, and the reason why I was curious. Not like I posted a OMG DEV'S WHY ISN'T THERE A [KIN] CONSOLE OMG YOU HATE TORPS YOU NEED TO ADD A [KIN] CONSOLE NOW!
If you read your second post in the thread...
...just saying.
Which is me reiterating why it doesn't make sense to me. Not me asking the devs to add it.
Look believe it or not I DO get what you're saying. But, at the same type if we look at damage TYPES... kin is a damage type.
Energy is a damage type...Antiproton, Disruptor, Phaser, Plasma, Polaron, and Tetryon are types of Energy damage. As is Proton.
Kinetic is a damage type...there is both Weapon and non-Weapon Kinetic damage.
Physical is a damage type.
Exotic is a damage type that can include the above as well as other subtypes.
If you fire an AP weapon at a target, it is resisted not only by AP resistance but also anything that provides Energy resistance. Because AP is a type of Energy Weapon doing Energy Damage.
It's possible to increase your resistance to specific types of Energy damage.
It's not possible to increase your resistance to specific types of Kinetic damage.
Thus, there's a single Kinetic damage resistance unlike Energy Weapons with multiple damage resistances. So there's no need to call it Quantum Kinetic Damage on a Quantum Torpedo is there? Thing is, if you look at a Zero Point Point Quantum Chamber...guess what it says it is boosting? Quantum Projectile Weapon Damage.
So it's only boosting Quantum Projectile Weapon Damage, right? But wait, Quantums do Kinetic damage. So it's boosting Kinetic damage? Just for Quantums. Specificity.
But, but, but...an Antirpoton Mag Regulator states that it boosts Antiproton damage and the Antiproton Weapons state they do Antiproton damage. Is Antiproton damage Energy damage? Well, yes...but, but, but...
But what?
The only place that the difference arises between the Energy Weapon and the Kinetic Weapon is that you can individually boost your resistance against various Energy Weapons and you cannot do that for Kinetic Weapons.
The Base DPV of a DHC, whether it's AP, Disruptor, or Plasma is 174. Unless the target has boosted its resistance specifically against that Energy type - it doesn't matter whether it's Phaser, Polaron, or Tetryon either.
A Specific (whether AP or Quantum) will boost the damage of weapons with that damage Type. A Generic (whether Beam or Mine) will boost the damage of weapons of that class of weapons.
Ambiplasma Envelopes boost Plasma Projectile Damage.
Chroniton Flux Regulartors boost Chroniton Projectile Damage.
Photon Detonation Assemblies boost Photon Projectile Damage.
TCD Subspace Infusers boost Tricobalt Projectile Damage.
Transphasic Compressors boost Transphasic Projectile Damage.
Zero Point Quantum Chambers boost Quantum Projectile Damage.
Is Plasma Projectile Damage Kinetic? Is Chroniton Projectile Damage Kinetic? Is Photon Projectile Damage Kinetic? Is Tricobalt Projectile Damage Kinetic? Is Transphasic Projectile Damage Kinetic? Is Quantum Projectile Damage Kinetic?
Yes...to all of those.
But so too do you have...Antiproton Damage is Energy, Disruptor Damage is Energy, Phaser Damage is Energy, Plasma Damage is Energy, Polaron Damage is Energy, and Tetryon Damage is Energy.
The only difference between them is that you cannot individually boost the resistance to the Kinetic types like you can the Energy types.
So saying that Kinetic is a type...is the same as saying Energy is a type. And just like there are different types of Energy...there are different types of Kinetic. The only thing that's different is there is not the means to boost the resistance to the individual Kinetic types like there is the individual Energy types.
So we get back to why didn't they add the ultra generic version of both +Energy and +Kinetic Consoles, eh? Cause you can't talk about one without the other...if you stop to look at any of it for even half a second. Which is why I talked about the Specifics vs. Generics and what such an ultra Generic console would likely mean...and...who the Heck would bother using it?
Sure, perhaps it would be nifty to have a dev come along and say they didn't add them for A(BC) reason(s)...or we could just stop to think about it for a half a sec.
No, it's not. Nowhere is there Does TRIBBLE energy damage, and energy resist is a general type of resist against all energy types. One could argue that the only reason kinetic is seperated from energy is so they could add another mechanic to the game for torpedos and mines. But anyway...
Dude, stop arguing so hard. Again, not asking for the devs to implement it, don't have to feel so threatened by the idea of [kin] consoles making it into the game, and don't have to work so hard trying to tell me my opinion is wrong. You can save the walls of text with a simple "I disagree."
All I wanted to know is if the devs ever mentioned why. I'm guessing by your responses that, to your knowledge, the answer is no.
Any further commentary from me on the subject was because instead of just responding to the question in my OP, people came in with arguments as to why there isn't one or why it'd be a bad idea etc etc.
In all seriousness, though, what the OP is asking for is already covered by the skill system: projectile weapons training.
What skill can you use to boost AP Weapon damage? Is it...?
A) Starship Antiproton Damage
C) Starship Ice Cream Making
If you went with anything other than B...you should stop posting. Though C does sound yummy!
edit: Corrected the question. Thanks to doffingcomrade!
But the OP's not actually asking for it - just wondering why it doesn't exist.
Yet for some reason...the OP just can't see the simple reasons that it doesn't exist. The OP's not making the connection...meh.
Has a dev said "we did this cause..." in a post? Not that I've seen. Could be buried in some interview back during the beta or anywhere since. But one should be able to look at everything else the devs have done - what they've done with the weapons/consoles/etc...to see why there isn't one (and that if there was, you wouldn't want it anyway).
Why didn't they rock Tac Consoles like they did skill consoles for Eng and Sci, eh?
They could have done +Starship Weapon Training Consoles that would have provided +Damage Strength to any weapon. They could have done +Starship Projectile Weapons and +Starship Energy Weapons to provide boosts to Projectile or Energy damage. Where the specifics would provide a better boost than the generic (Projectile/Energy vs. Weapon).
Course - there wouldn't have been as many available consoles then. There wouldn't be the potential for all the different set bonuses. There would be less grind - folks wouldn't have to log in as much to get as much since they'd have it - if they're not logging in, then back when it was sub only they might have questioned why they had a sub - and since, well - they might question why they have a sub, why they bother to keep the game installed, why they'd need to spend any money on anything.
Actually I did say, at least twice, I got the point you were trying to make. However that doesn't mean my opinion has changed. You an understand what someone is saying and explaining and still retain your own belief and/or opinion.
FFS this is why I never post. You try to ask a simple question and you get three pages of TRIBBLE.
To Tosalen: No, the devs never said why.
OR
To Tosalen: Yes, they said xxxxx...
See how easy? End of subject. 2 posts.
I asked a simple yes or no question.
Well at least now I know why Virus has almost 10k posts.