Dragon/Beam Boat Build Help

Comments

• doffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  You are already duplicating all your EPTX powers, so DCEs are useless here.
  
  This build of yours is also EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, and yet you're doing this on a crappy MUAC, which is not, by any means, an end-game ship, but rather, a filler ship that you're going to ultimately replace. Have you actually bought all this stuff already?
  
  Those armor consoles are overpriced junk. Ever since fleet mine consoles, those XII consoles are nothing more than worthless trash, but people for some baffling reason still buy them. Don't. You're just giving away your money. Money that you apparently don't have, since you've only been here a month.
  
  So first, let's consider what's important: You need to have a goal to shoot for, and a MUAC isn't that goal. Pick a real ship hull. The successor ships to your MUAC, if you want continuity of boff layout and more-or-less compatibility with your equipment, are the Odyssey and Fleet Heavy Cruiser. Other good choices are the Fleet Avenger and Fleet Excelsior, but these have different layouts and you will want to plan accordingly. However, all of the stuff you're thinking of purchasing will fit on the ships in question...except the Odyssey non-Tac versions. So if your ultimate transition goal is the Sci Oddy, don't bother buying a third Tac console, you won't be able to use it and your money is wasted.
  
  As for your skill+doff (revised to remove unnecessary DCEs) loadout, it is passable, albeit so 2012. Your ship will exhibit weak, inconsistent performance characterized by poor firepower, as is typical of 2012-era cruiser builds. It is also unnecessarily expensive, as at least two of those doffs cannot be obtained reliably by doffing and will therefore cost you an arm and a leg, while providing inferior performance.
  
  Try the following instead:
  Lt Tac: Fire at Will 1, Attack Pattern Beta 1
  Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
  Cmdr Eng: EPTS1, Aux2Batt 1, EPTW3, DEM3
  Lt Cmdr Eng: Engineering Team 1, Aux2Batt 1, RSP2
  Lt Sci: Sci Team 1, HE2
  
  Duty Officers: +1 Space from Spire
  Shield Distribution Officer x3 (Purple: Rolor Support)
  Technician x3 (Purple: B'Tran Support)
  
  Advantages: Far superior firepower, and more importantly, all of these doffs can be obtained freely, without having to pay an arm and a leg to shysters on the Exchange. As a month-old player, you are not a bank, and certainly cannot afford half of what you previously listed.
  
  Weaponwise, consider:
  Fore: Polaron Beam Array MK XI (White) x4 -> Dominion Polaron Beam Array MK XI (blue) x4
  Aft: Polaron Beam Array MK XI (White) x4 -> Dominion Polaron Beam Array MK XI (blue) x4
  Upgrade these during the upcoming FE replay, when you're going to be grinding a mission a day to get your Lobi anyway. Post-nerf, the KCB isn't terrific anyway. And it's expensive!
  Cost: Cheap as free!
  
  Consoles, consider:
  Tactical Console: Polaron Phase Modulator MK XII (blue) x3
  All these items can be resold after you're done, so it ultimately costs you nothing. Ultimately you want to upgrade to Locators in whatever energy flavor you settle on, but in the meantime, cheap as free + synergy with your Flowcaps for Leech.
  Cost: Cheap as free!
  
  Engi Console: Plasmonic Leech(?) (Yes, this is hideously expensive, you probably can't afford it)
  Engi Console: Neutronium Alloy MK XI (white) x3-4 (depending on if you can afford leech)
  You may want to replace them with Fleet Neutronium PTR Armor or +CrtH Uni Consoles when you can afford it, but that time is not now. In the meantime, cheap as free saves you a lot of money you can put to better use increasing the heft of your wallet instead, and not on buying things you will replace later.
  Cost: Leech, arm and a leg. Everything else: Cheap as free.
  
  Sci Console: Freebie Dyson Emitters +ShHPs or Shield Emitter Array MK XI (blue) -> Uni Crit Consoles
  Cost: Free to Cheap as Free! -> Arm & Leg.
  
  Core Components:
  Deflector: Solanae MK XII -> Whatever hasn't been nerfed to death by the time you turn into a bank.
  Engines: Solanae MK XII -> Whatever hasn't been nerfed to death by the time you win the lottery
  Shield: Solanae MK XII -> EFS Resilient ResB
  Warp Core: Obisek Rift Core -> Fleet Plasma Integrated [AMP] if you get rich.
  Cost: FREE -> Only a few fingers -> Maybe a leg, but you can keep the arm.
  
  This above beats the PANTS off your build, and won't cost you your firstborn. Because I dunno about you, but I'm not Jedinikon and I'm not made of money.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• sevendead1ysins Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  Thanks for the reply.
  
  I had chosen the MUAC as a fill in as I was planning on eventually moving over to a Oddy Tac down the road, and the MUAC was a cheapish fill in for the time being. I am currently in a Star Cruiser. Of the equipment listed before I already own the Assimilated Module, Kinect Cutting Beam, Omni Directional Antiproton Beam Array, and the Obelisk Subspace Rift Warp Core. I had tried to keep the majority of the remaining equipment to stuff I can get through rep or fleet with just STF and dil grinding. I also currently have the Solanae Impulse Engines and Shields, as well as a bunch of Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [ACC]x2 (from replaying Sphere of Influence) that I was planning on using for the time being until I could get the fleet stuff. I had thrown the KCB in the build as a kinectic dmg weap and to replace a torpedo that wouldn't be useful in broadsiding, how has it been nerfed though? Is there a significant reason to go with Polaron over Antiproton? Had just put Antiproton in there as it is the main energy type that I have been using thus far and just kind of stuck with it.
  
  As for doffs I had just thrown up what I thought would be useful, but I would definitely not be opposed to a cheaper solution. As for the boffs, what are the benefits to the skill layout you are suggesting? I am still new to the mechanics and am not knowledgeable on a lot of the advanced mechanics, I had previously structured the boff skills to try and keep a constant 125 power level in weapons and shields.
  
  Plasmonic leech was just a hopeful eventual and am not opposed to scraping it from the build. I had eventually wanted to move towards fleet engi consoles but didn't know which ones would be appropriate. As for the Ablative and Tetraburnium hull armors and the Sif generator, I can afford those off of the exchange right now, but if they are worthless as you say I can hold off and just get the fleet neutronium consoles from the mine; why the PowTrans modifier though? The field generator sci console is the one that I wouldn't be able to afford for a while so I will look at viable solutions for the time being.

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• doffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I had chosen the MUAC as a fill in as I was planning on eventually moving over to a Oddy Tac down the road, and the MUAC was a cheapish fill in for the time being.

  Honestly, I would say the Oddy Sci is a better choice than the Oddy Tac, with the new Sensor Analysis and all, which offers a much more significant damage increase than a single extra Tac console will. Obviously, though, you must bear in mind that it has only 2 Tac consoles, so don't go crazy buying Tac consoles.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I am currently in a Star Cruiser.

  Yeah, man, lose the Starcruiser. It's probably the second-worst ship in the game in terms of being-useful-at-anything. About the only use you can put it to is storing your extra TRIBBLE. You don't even really gain anything in the looks department, the MUAC looks exactly the same (ugly yellow paintjob optional), has a better layout, and still costs dirt.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Of the equipment listed before I already own the Assimilated Module, Kinect Cutting Beam

  Eh, then I guess throw it in.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I had tried to keep the majority of the remaining equipment to stuff I can get through rep or fleet with just STF and dil grinding.

  Pretty much everything worth installing on a ship these days is Rep/Fleet, just about nothing is dropped anymore.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I also currently have the Solanae Impulse Engines and Shields, as well as a bunch of Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [ACC]x2 (from replaying Sphere of Influence) that I was planning on using for the time being until I could get the fleet stuff.

  Well, Solanae Deflector to complete the set, get an ersatz Borg set on the cheap-as-free.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I had thrown the KCB in the build as a kinectic dmg weap and to replace a torpedo that wouldn't be useful in broadsiding, how has it been nerfed though?

  It used to be that the Omega Weapons Amplifier procced considerably more than it presently does. However, this was nerfed and it no longer does so, so the shift has been away from the aforementioned combination.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Is there a significant reason to go with Polaron over Antiproton? Had just put Antiproton in there as it is the main energy type that I have been using thus far and just kind of stuck with it.

  Significant? Well, in the long run, no. I was recommending polaroid purely on financial grounds: Polaroid is the cheapest weapon type to accessorize, as consoles of modest quality can be had without investing any money at all, since you can rent XII blues, then resell when you switch, unlike other energy types. AP, on the other hand, is expensive as hell, with even trash tac consoles costing at least an arm if not a leg as well. You're pretty much forced to immediately go to Fleet Locators.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  As for doffs I had just thrown up what I thought would be useful, but I would definitely not be opposed to a cheaper solution.

  My solution is about as cheap as it gets: Free. Start doffing Rolor and B'Tran!
  
  As for the boffs, what are the benefits to the skill layout you are suggesting? I am still new to the mechanics and am not knowledgeable on a lot of the advanced mechanics, I had previously structured the boff skills to try and keep a constant 125 power level in weapons and shields.[/quote]The advantages of the build I suggested: Every single single skill runs as if you had almost two copies of it, unlike your current build, which, no matter what you do, won't let you operate your guns more than half the time, so your damage would absolutely stink. Plus, it's cheap-as-free. Disadvantages: You regularly lose all of your Aux power, so anything that runs on Aux will be kinda gimped, and you won't benefit much from the Auxpower-related Rep passives or the extra +3.3% from your AMP core.
  
  On the upside, it won't cost you a quart of blood and your firstborn in alternative doffs, and besides, your MUAC is incapable of utilizing those other options.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  As for the Ablative and Tetraburnium hull armors and the Sif generator, I can afford those off of the exchange right now, but if they are worthless as you say I can hold off and just get the fleet neutronium consoles from the mine;

  Yeah, if it's not endgame, it's junk, and if it's not cheap-as-free junk, then it's a ripoff. I would not pay more than about 25K a piece for anything that's junk.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  why the PowTrans modifier though?

  More PTR = More PewPew, when you're running beam blasting. Anywhere you can eke out some more EPS or PTR without shooting yourself in the foot, try to get some. Obviously, you'll have plenty of crit-enhancing goodies from universal rep consoles, but squeezing in some PTR won't hurt you if you're going to fill a slot with armor.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  The field generator sci console is the one that I wouldn't be able to afford for a while so I will look at viable solutions for the time being.

  Awhile? Those things cost you an arm and a leg. Even I cannot afford that. And honestly, it's not something you even need in PvE. Not once have I ever exploded thinking, "Man, if only I had a field generator, that would be have been a totally great use of 30M EC."

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• sevendead1ysins Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  After looking more into the Sci Oddy it does look to be a better option with the stacking dmg buff from Sensor Analysis. Which ship though would you suggest I get into in the meantime to work towards that ship? And would I keep the same boff lay out as Lt & Ens Tac, Cmdr & Lt. Cmdr Eng, and Lt. Sci?
  
  Didn't know KCB was nerfed like that, will take if out of the final build and replace it with another beam array. Solanae deflector will be easy to acquire, but would the MACO Graviton and MACO Shield be better replacements down the line? with it's higher shield capacity and the +'s to shield emitters, structural integrity, and shield system?
  
  For filling the eng console slots, would the fleet armor ones be the best option. the PowTrans modifier now makes more sense the way you put it. Which sci consoles would be good options, not just cheap/free ones now but the fleet versions as well.
  
  Will start doffing that to work torwards those doffs, and with the boffs it makes more sense now with only having 1 copy if the doffs will help lower the CD's down to the global. If with the doffs the skills are effectively running like they were two copies, is there a need to have 2 copies of Aux2Batt 1 like you suggested earlier? I am guessing that Aux2Batt would be used after EPS Power Transfer to dump the burst power into the other systems.
  
  Wasn't aware that the previous build would limit the availability of weapons fire. Is there no way to buffer the aux a bit with the skill build you suggested? or is it just a necessary sacrifice? Also, is DEM still worth putting on with pure beam arrays? I know it works better with cannons due to the 'per pulse' part.

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• baelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  Just remember. Aux2Batt isn't a Dragon. It's a crutch.

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• lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  One of the new Borg/Undine Series revamps gives a VR AP Beam Array...can't remember which one. If you're going to roll a cruiser, you'll want Fleet Neutroniums with +Turn.
  
  With Aux to Bat, you'll only need 1 copy of each other command, just 2 A2B.

  
  
  

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• doffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  After looking more into the Sci Oddy it does look to be a better option with the stacking dmg buff from Sensor Analysis. Which ship though would you suggest I get into in the meantime to work towards that ship? And would I keep the same boff lay out as Lt & Ens Tac, Cmdr & Lt. Cmdr Eng, and Lt. Sci?

  As you mentioned, the MUAC is cheap and serviceable, and its layout translates to the Oddy. You will lose a tac console, though, so plan accordingly if you start pre-acquiring gear before buying your ship.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Will start doffing that to work torwards those doffs, and with the boffs it makes more sense now with only having 1 copy if the doffs will help lower the CD's down to the global. If with the doffs the skills are effectively running like they were two copies, is there a need to have 2 copies of Aux2Batt 1 like you suggested earlier?

  Yes, that skill specifically needs two because it's the pump that's cycling your ship.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I am guessing that Aux2Batt would be used after EPS Power Transfer to dump the burst power into the other systems.

  Mostly, you just hammer on it to keep your guns pumping, and keep your other basic systems from locking up and killing you. It's already going to be a tight squeeze to keep some of the really short-duration skills running on time, and it's not entirely perfect below the 20-second mark, but it's a lot better than nothing.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Wasn't aware that the previous build would limit the availability of weapons fire.

  Yes, since you only have a single copy of all of those skills, you will only be able to effectively operate your guns half the time without ATB. There is simply no room to put more, so the rest of the time, you're just shooting blanks. Such a crippled loadout may be adequate in a PvP environment where you don't actually need to fire at all without an alpha, since it's just noise, but in PvE, sustained, continuous fire is the key to being effective. Being unable to fire your weapons effectively half the time cripples the ship.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Is there no way to buffer the aux a bit with the skill build you suggested? or is it just a necessary sacrifice?

  Cost of business. It's possible, in emergencies, to boost Aux with the use of a battery and/or your Engi Captain skills, but these are temporary measures and cannot be sustained.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  For filling the eng console slots, would the fleet armor ones be the best option. the PowTrans modifier now makes more sense the way you put it.

  Best option? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how many Univeral Crit consoles you can scrounge. You probably want to slot some kind of PTR-based equipment, either in the form of a Spire core, or Uni consoles that boost EPS, if not simply slotting at least one or two El Cheapo Flow Regulators as a stopgap.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Which sci consoles would be good options, not just cheap/free ones now but the fleet versions as well.

  As your ship does not use much in the way of Science abilities, you have only 4 serious options:
  1. Univeral Consoles (generally for CrtH/D, or setpiece completion)
  2. Field Generators, for Shield Capacity, either the arm-and-leg versions, or the Imitation Dyson Freebies.
  3. Flow Capacitors, which enhance the effectiveness of Leech, if/when you have it.
  4. Emitter Arrays to boost your shield heals.
  The last two can be obtained from your embassy at great expense. Expense that you can probably ill afford. Let's not get carried away with expensive toys. Running Plasma as your energy type will let you capitalize on your science slots to fit +Th +Pla consoles in there to boost your damage you lost with your Tac console, and additionally, Romulan Plasma beams can be acquired freely as castoffs from rep boxes. Naturally, Tac Consoles above the XI green level are going to cost you a king's ransom, unless you go Spire.
  

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  Also, is DEM still worth putting on with pure beam arrays? I know it works better with cannons due to the 'per pulse' part.

  Yes, in large part because you lack anything else to slot there, as everything else either conflicts with your chosen Aux2Skill, and/or depends on Aux for reliable functioning. It still does more damage.
  

  baelogventure wrote: »

  Just remember. Aux2Batt isn't a Dragon. It's a crutch.

  You say crutch, I say necessary requirement to get a ship whose boff layout doesn't otherwise support anything else to meet the requirements of relevant gameplay, on a budget that isn't Jedinikon's. I guess you could say the ship itself is crippled, and thus "crutch" fits. Not everyone wants to fly an Escort, though. It's possible to run more versatile cruisers without it, such as the Oddy or Avenger, but a stopgap like the MUAC can't function any other way, and getting most cruisers, that even CAN, to run without it is going to cost you your firstborn...and some just plain CAN'T. Ultimately, ATB will hinder achieving maximum DPS potential, but it also doesn't cost an arm and a leg! Not everyone can be Jedinikon.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• sevendead1ysins Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  Updated the OP to reflect suggest changes. Went with the antiproton weapons that I have some of for now as they are easily gained from replaying Sphere of Influence, or one of the new Borg/Undine missions like lowy1 mentiond. Went with the Mk X uncommon AP Mag Regulators because they are cheap on the exchange and I will be moving up to Vulnerability Locators when I have the Fleet creds and dil. Went with blue Neutronium alloy Mk X x4 because it is cheaper than the white Mk XI and has the same +%.
  
  Still not sure on any of the science consoles, will need to play with that as I go along, most likely putting in universal consoles for CritH or set bonuses.
  
  You mention that Aux2Batt is a necessity on the MUAC, when I eventually move up to the Oddy will I still use it or should it be swapped out for other skills?
  
  Are the skill points I have in this build for my captain sufficient? or do they too need some tweaking?

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• dahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  Edited: Made a mistake

  Chive on and prosper, eh?
  
  My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree

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• sevendead1ysins Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  dahminus wrote: »

  Made a mistake

  
  ?

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• dahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  ?

  
  Saw something that I was making a comment on and edited it after...sorry for the confusion

  Chive on and prosper, eh?
  
  My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree

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• sevendead1ysins Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  dahminus wrote: »

  Saw something that I was making a comment on and edited it after...sorry for the confusion

  
  Oh ok, no worries.

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• doffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  You mention that Aux2Batt is a necessity on the MUAC, when I eventually move up to the Oddy will I still use it or should it be swapped out for other skills?

  Unless you become a bank, probably. The Oddy has a compatible layout. Alternate versions of the layout are capable of attempting other builds, but you should be able to carry on trucking as-is. Plus, this build isn't costing you anything.
  
  WARNING: Do NOT buy only PART of the Oddy pack: 3pack or nothing. The good console is packaged with the worst variant. With 3packs, buying only one is a permanent commitment to never touching the others, and you probably want the Separation console for sure...which is on the crappy Eng Oddy, which has no SA and the same measly 2 Tac Consoles, so it's just terribad.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• aduinfinrod1 Member Posts: 17 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  i've acquired the science oddy, and i'm fine with it (and only it).
  for me, 2500 Zen not spent are good, if u didnt need for you're build (and i'm not sure about saucer separation ... are u sure it's better then acquarius? i find all 2 unuseful, only useful for 2-piece bonus, could be ... 3-piece is ... boh... not so so useful)

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• sevendead1ysins Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  doffingcomrade wrote: »

  Unless you become a bank, probably. The Oddy has a compatible layout. Alternate versions of the layout are capable of attempting other builds, but you should be able to carry on trucking as-is. Plus, this build isn't costing you anything.
  
  WARNING: Do NOT buy only PART of the Oddy pack: 3pack or nothing. The good console is packaged with the worst variant. With 3packs, buying only one is a permanent commitment to never touching the others, and you probably want the Separation console for sure...which is on the crappy Eng Oddy, which has no SA and the same measly 2 Tac Consoles, so it's just terribad.

  
  Yeah I had planned on getting the 3 pack for the consoles from the others. That way I can play around with the Tac and the Sci with different builds and have all 3 consoles for the same price as the two ships.
  

  aduinfinrod1 wrote: »

  i've acquired the science oddy, and i'm fine with it (and only it).
  for me, 2500 Zen not spent are good, if u didnt need for you're build (and i'm not sure about saucer separation ... are u sure it's better then acquarius? i find all 2 unuseful, only useful for 2-piece bonus, could be ... 3-piece is ... boh... not so so useful)

  
  I would think the 3 piece bonus would be useful, maybe not the worker bees but the addition of GW3 for the saucer section during seperation. Also doesn't 3 pieces further decrease the CD for the abilities above what 2 pieces decrease?

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• aduinfinrod1 Member Posts: 17 Arc User

  April 2014 edited April 2014

  sevendead1ysins wrote: »

  I would think the 3 piece bonus would be useful, maybe not the worker bees but the addition of GW3 for the saucer section during seperation. Also doesn't 3 pieces further decrease the CD for the abilities above what 2 pieces decrease?

  having only the sci, obviously i think that work bees are useful ... a lot useful ... in some STF they save my life, even with really low shield and hull, because they repair a lot of hull really fast, giving me time to apply science team buff, and are untargettable (only area damage could damage work bees)
  
  cooldown is good as it is now, i think that a decrease in most case couldnt be used, cause u didnt have necessity/time to respawn your pet (acquarius, saucer and work bees).
  GW3 is a good, really good, ability, but u can use GW2 with BOFF, so why spent 2500 Zen for a pet that will be killed before it can use his new ability?
  
  for me, u can use the 2-piece bonus and u are pretty unkillable, with a good build

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