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So school me on a torpedo B'rel
annemarie30
Member Posts: 2,593 Arc User
since I wand to appear shoot and disappear, I don't use anything but torpedoes. I see two sets of thought out there. one type of torpedo and a mix. I have seen mostly transphasic, 2 or 3 regular and the breen cluster thingie.
I saw one that was shooting plasmas.. lots of them and the graviton torpedo from the Dyson reputation. if he shot anything else, I did not see them.
so mix it up? stay transphasic? is torpedo spread better than high yield? I'm curious how a B'rel Boff seating would go. are the purple torpedo doffs a "must"?
I saw one that was shooting plasmas.. lots of them and the graviton torpedo from the Dyson reputation. if he shot anything else, I did not see them.
so mix it up? stay transphasic? is torpedo spread better than high yield? I'm curious how a B'rel Boff seating would go. are the purple torpedo doffs a "must"?
We Want Vic Fontaine
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Plasma is another alternative, especially for Romulans, since Plasma effects also go straight through shields. Relying on the plasma burn just takes longer.
With the new thingy from the FE that adds a bonus to Radiation Damage (including the Hargh'peng, I think), that might make a Photon/Gravimetric+Hargh'peng build more interesting... but that's all theoretical at this point.
I still occasionally use a mix just for fun, but I'd rather use the Transphasic setup because of shields. I have been tempted to run plasma, but I didn't care for it with my T'varo.
...
The torpedo flavor of the month is a Grav Well plus the Gravimetric Torpedo, at least for a group in PVE.
The trick is: Grav Well, wait a moment for them to ball up, Torpedo Spread 3 with the Gravimetric, and follow up with a Breen Cluster. If there's anything left after that, a couple single transphasic torpedos is usually enough to blow them away.
Honestly, I barely use my standard Transphasics unless there's a single target, and even in PVE, Cryptic likes to spam you with multiple targets... so I'm mostly alternative between TS2 & TS3 with the Gravimetric... and, honestly, that doesn't really need the Purple PWOs.
PWOs do seem to help cooldown my Breen Cluster. That's the main reason why I use them. Yeah, they help cooldown my Transphasics (which have a long reload), and more cooldown on my Transphasics also means more cooldown on my Breen Cluster. However, if you're just relying on Gravimetric torpedo spreads, then the need for Purple PWOs is diminished.
That's the thing with the PVE game. The times when you're facing a single enemy (like the Tac Cubes or Donatra's Scimitar) are pretty uncommon.
The B'rel BOFF seating... it's all over the map. I can tell you mine, but it's not necessarily what will be best for you.
Commander Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Haz Emitters 2, Grav Well 1 & 3
Lt. Com Tac: THY1, TS2, TS3
Lt. Eng: EPtS1, Aux to SIF 1
Lt. Tac: THY1, DPB1 (because I use Mines & the Hot Pursuit trait)
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
You don't decloak, just move about, the idea is fire torps on the way in and as you pass hit dispersal pattern and mine plus rear torp(s).
I suspect better dps can be had flying with shields up, torps and maybe a beam up front and 360 beams rear plus 1.
You need to keep the Enhanced Battle Cloak up. That's the whole point. While it's active, you have a +15% damage buff. You get the Ambush bonus when Cloak comes down fully, but you really don't want to come out of Cloak when you're running a Torpedo Boat... it drops your damage after the Ambush wears off, and you're typically not running much in the way of shield abilities.
How you engage depends on the opponent. It's a lot by "feel".
Voth use things like CPB, so you can't get in close or you'll lose cloak, they'll target you, and you'll get shot up. You need a bigger stand-off range for Voth. Some of the Voth also use Grav Well (and Tyken's?), which can knock out your Cloak, so the way you fly around at distance also matters. A lot of quick turns after shooting torpedos (and becoming temporarily visible under EBC) is generally a good way to get stuck in a Grav Well.
Rival Klingons in Beta Thoridar (Tau Dewa Patrol) seemed a bit different this time around. Can't quite quantify it yet. Before, I could engage really close. The toughest are the Vor'cha & the Raptors, I think... they seem to torpedo you a lot, and that hurts on Elite. So actual flanking, not taking them from behind, matters a whole bunch. I don't fear the BoPs or Hegh'ta, even on Elite. They're just fodder for Gravimetric Spreads.
Romulans use targetable torpedos & mines a lot, so TS is your friend. The Mogai use Tractor Mines, of course, so that's one thing to consider when it comes to range. Tractor Mines, like Grav Well, can knock you out of Cloak. Otherwise, the T'varo are as weak as BoPs, so they die quickly to the Grav Well/Gravimetric Spread nonsense.
Infected (Space)... the clumps of Nanites are good targets for Grav Well + Torpedo Spread (Gravimetric), but they also can basically one-shot you in Elite, so being mindful of range & not firing the follow up Breen Cluster (unless you're feeling lucky) kind of matters. Between the Gate, the Nanite clumps, and the Tac Cube, you can die very fast in this one. I tend to throttle back on the damage output on this... someone else's parser had me at 6.8K DPS over the entire thing the last time I did ISE, which was 2nd place in that group.
Dancing at that 10km distance is part of how you deal with big nasty stuff that can one-shot you... but that does nothing for targetables, like the Breen Cluster or a HY Gravimetric. So knowing when to be in close and when to be far away... it's all kind of situational.
I tend to be mostly in the 7km - 3km range, always at full throttle, depending on the situation.
...
Torpedo "spam" is kind of a rough term. I don't spam much on groups. It's one Torpedo Spread, and maybe a Breen Cluster (depending on what I'm shooting at, and if I have the big hitters on their flank so they can't fire a THY or TS back at me).
I will chain-fire torpedos at single targets, hoping to engage my PWOs & cooldown my Breen Cluster for another follow up Cluster shot... but I'm always aware of who that target is trying to shoot at. If the Tac Cube switches to me, then I go into cloak/dance mode again (assuming I'm not one-shotted).
It's completely opposite of, say, a Scimitar or Defiant, where you use a lot of firepower in a short period of time. The B'rel game is very much about awareness, knowing when to go quiet and when to go active.
Not that I'm an expert, mind you. I just enjoy the game of it
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Eventually, I pushed the difficulty all the way up to see what I could do (and to get more phat lewtz).
You'd get blown up & learn from it, but then you weren't hurting a group in a STF, so it was all good.
I still do Tau Dewa Patrol on Elite. I don't know if it's "practice" (are we talkin 'bout PRACTICE?), but it was good to see that I could blow things up on my own with just my B'rel.
And at least Tau Dewa Patrol gives you Romulan Marks, and not just a handful of unrefined dilithium like the old Empire Defense things.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Yeah I've been doing it with photons but might best to use photons or quantums and then mix in with some tricobalts or chroniton. As well omega torp take use of that shearing dot too so you can run the omega basically in EBC mode and when it needs to recharge decloak and use cloak ambush. Would be nice though if the shearing sped up the reloading of the omega torp launcher as part of its passive
There are practically two roles you can fill. Brute Force Tactical or a Sci Harasser.
A Tac will try to buff up his most spikey weapons (photon torps, gravitorp, quantums, cluster torp) with Attack Pattern Alpha, Tactical Fleet, Attack Pattern Beta (watch out for Tactical Team downtimes in PVP and it works very well) etc and then try to kill his target by spiking kinetic damage as high as possible.
The Sci Harasser B'rel will drop Gravity Wells, throw his cluster torp, gravitorp with spread, sensor scan and some pilot's choice. Trying to trap enemies with a Gravity Well to group them together and then watch how the gravitorp spread proc melts the group until they all explode from the cluster torp.
I don't use PWO doffs, instead I use DCE's to reduce CD on EptX. I cycle EptE1 for speed, defense and mobility as well as EptA3 for stealth sight and a nice bonus to sci skills (helps if you only have 3 slots to put sci consoles in).
With the speed from EptE and the many power you have since you don't need to spec into shield or weapons power you can keep engine and auxiliary pretty high and just swoosh around.
As was already stated at least two transphasic cluster torps are the standard weapons of ANY successful torpedo bomber. Learning to dive bomb with them is essential. Cluster torps can be shot down so you want to drop them as close to your target as possible. So swooshing in at full speed (even full impulse is possible, since you don't need weapon power) and trying to drop them at the latest second before passing the target will usually result in the target being hit without having the cluster torp shot down (unless of course your opponents have too much FAW going).
Regarding everything else: torpedo types and other stuff I can only link to this wonderful guide
I also tried it with a pure Photon B'rel. Dyson set for Photon damage & criticals (I slapped the Experimental Proton Beam in back just to have it somewhere), the new Photon console that also buffs Radiation (i.e. my Hargh'peng). Used the Gravimetric torpedo, a couple Photon Torpedos, the Hargh'peng, the Proton weapon, and Photon Mines.
I did Beta Thoridar on Elite (Tau Dewa Patrol)... which is my usual measuring stick since it is easy due to enemy BoPs.
Did it kill things? Surprisingly, it wasn't that horrible. Before, I took my Quantums out against normal enemies, and it seemed to take forever because shields were too strong. Now, I can blow up Rival Negh'vars (Elite) with a Photon torpedo. Did they mess up Torpedos again? NERF KINETIC DAMAGE! OP!
That being said, I didn't note huge DOT numbers either. The lone instance where I saw big DOT numbers (1000+ per pulse) was on a HY Gravimetric shot up the "flank" of a Vor'cha that also crit shot... but I didn't check the log to see if it was the Grav Rift or the DOT. And the Vor'cha died after only 2 pulses (because it was critically hit by a HY Gravimetric up the backside).
Yeah, I would agree that Shearing would probably do better with a different payload. Maybe even my old pure Quantum setup. I think a pure Plasma setup (stacking DOTs) would also be interesting with Shearing... including the Omega & the Romulan Plasma. Transphasic is also already good because you mix the highest shield-bypassing spike with the DOT.
Time to throw all my Plasmas onto my T'varo, I think.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I personally like to either fly by the target, shooting on the way in and out or I like to sneak up, unload a bunch of projectiles, then scoot out away and then return after cloaking for another attack. The breen cluster mine torp has a long cooldown, as does the Hargh 'peng, they do decent damage and they don't do damage to me, so I like them.
Since I tend to fly very close to my targets, I don't favor tricobalts, plasmas, gravimetric photons, or anything else that will do harm to me if I'm too close, but that's due to my proximity to the target and the B'Rel's flimsy hull.
In the front weapon slots, I put the long cooldown-heavy hitting torpedoes in the left 2 slots. In the right 2 slots, I put 2 short(er) cooldown torpedoes so I can keep firing when forward facing.
In the aft slots, I use one long cooldown torp and something with a shorter cooldown, but not too short, like a regular transphasic torp.
That way, if I fly past my target or I turn 180 degrees around to scoot away, I fire one or two torpedoes before EBC cloaks the B'Rel again.
I favor the transphasic set, though the new stuff might get me to change to photons. Anyway, my newest toon has almost no rep so far using an all-torp loadout iwhich s something like:
Front- Cluster-mine torp, Hargh'Peng*, Rapid reload, Rapid reload.
Aft- Cluster-mine torp, regular transphasic torp.
*-got the mission late last night and I hope to have it today. It will replace a regular transphasic torp.
If you favor a more stand-off play style, that's where those tricobalt, gravimetric photon, plasmas can be wonderful since you are away from the AOE damage they can affect you with. The rommulan heavy plasma torp can be a killer string of slow moving plasma destruction, while the omega plasma can be a quick fire wonder too. Let me caution you that either of those two, when you get the timing down, can send a stream of destruction that leaves your B'Rel with a lowered cloak and targetable for long periods of time, which may be way too long.
All that said, I still like spike damage I get with my half torp/ half mine laying setup that uses DPB3. I sneak up, drop a transphasic mine which breaks into 14 individual mines with DPB3, a cluster mine and a regular torp or two, scoot away, and repeat with the rear cluster-mine torp firing this time instead of the front one. Getting the timing down so the mine and a cluster mine torp fire at nearly the same time can produce some wonderful spike damage.
I will say, though, that it is a play style that ins't normal and it may prove to be less effective than other build and styles. So, don't just use my setup. Check the forums for more advice. Check similar ships like the T'Varo for advice too. I did when I decided to make a B'Rel build. It took a week of sifting through posts to learn enough for me to begin asking questions, and the folks posting in these forums have been a big help.
Tactics? Grav Well, Gravimetric Spread, HY Tricobalt for the big booma.
(And try not to die, or die well/with honor)
I guess you can also do Tricobalt Spread when they nerf the Gravimetric Torpedo
Fore: Grav, Photon, Omega, Tricobalt
Aft: Experimental Proton weapon, Tractor Beam Mines
I threw on my Tractor Beam Mines for LULZ because my 2nd Tac uses DPB1... but I'll probably swap that BOFF for a 2nd Sci instead, and then swap to Hargh'peng or a third Photon launcher. Maybe I'll shift the Omega back there, or do an actual Plasma launcher (for HY goodness).
EDIT: Running out of BOFF space. Gosh darn Marauding BOFF. Can't modify it in the Tailor, it doesn't have any Space traits... so, not good in Space, and worthless for Ground because I can't fancy it up. At least my Jem'hadar looks cool. *sigh*
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
The mk11 rare plasma torp consoles cost about 10k, the mk 12 purples for plasma, photon and quantum are under 2m each.
Also, if you don't slap the nukara web mines on your B'rel, you're frickin' nuts. Their damage is boosted by AUX. Fantastic weapon that can one-shot tac cubes in PVE or Cruisers in PVP if you use your buffs and a beta dispersal pattern.
Hehe
This thread has been quite helpfull with information.
Season 9: The rise of the raiders!
I totally agree that the web mines are fun, but they do have a down side. When using dispersal patterns to deploy web mines in a group, I have never seen anymore than one target snared in a web mine. My experience is that if you are working in a single target play style, web mines are great. If, however, you are trying to spread damage around to multiple targets simultaneously, which often works better in PvE stuff, 14 individual mines that can hit multiple targets might actually be a better option. If all mines are engaging one target and it blows up before all of them hit, the remaining mines can engage another target, just like those romulan hyper plasma torps do.
So, do web mines only engage 1 target, or can they engage and snare/ trap more than one target and I havn't been deploying them properly to get them to engage multiple targets?
If I have not been deploying them properly to snare multiple targets, how do you make it work that way?
I swapped BOFF skills to APB1 from DPB1, but I might switch back. I still do enjoy Hot Pursuit, and Transphasic mines are 80% penetration? LOL
I still want CritH & CritD with my Transphasics. I'll use the new Assimilated Transphasic, but I like the crit more. I don't know if it's more effective, but I like it.
FINALLY got me a Superior Subterfuge & Superior Rom OP Embassy BOFFs. I might have gone for more Rom OPs, but you never know if they'll nerf that to non-stacking.
If I had $$$ to burn, I'd get the Chroniton stuff from the Lobi store, especially that temporal torpedo thing. For the Chroniton LOLZ. And the chance to Critically Flank myself with a HY
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Web mines will engage multiple targets. I tend to hold on to them for bigger targets though as they are more of a home run hitter weapon. Hence all of the times I have seen them snare multiple targets, was by accident while trying to get something else.
Now THIS is where it gets REALLY fun and you're brain gets tortured. lol Cmdr Tact OR Sci??? Both can be sooooooooo douchie. I HAD to have a high end Grav Well.
With A2B I found I can squeeze some mines in there to have fun with. Without A2B, I didn't feel comfortable with mines yet, so it's an all torp build.
A2B (with mines)
TT1, TS2, APO1, DPB3 (TT1 is somewhat wasted)
HE1, ST2, GW1 (ST2 is to heal others)
EPTE1, A2B1
ET1, A2B1
Non-A2B (Torpedoes only. use DCE's to reduce EPTx cooldowns)
THY1, THY2, APO1, APO3
HE1, HE2, GW1
EPTE1, ET2
EPTE1, A2SIF1
HY1,TS2,APB2,Dispersal pattern B3
ST1,JS2,GW1
EPTS1 A2Sif1
TT1 TS2
after the first run, I will need to lose JS2 for HE2 maybe lose ST1 for JS1, have no thoughts there yet
You need something to escape tractor beams & whatnot... APO or Polarize Hull is what I typically use. You'll see one of those for everyone's build, I think.
For me, APO is too much speed
Science Team AND EPtS is too much shield heals. You can keep one as a GTFO card, but not two. Hazard Emitters or Polarize Hull are pretty common in the Ensign Science slot.
For the Lt.Com Tac slot, since I like Gravimetric Rifts, I use TS3 on my Grav Torpedo. And since I am Sci, I use Cmdr Sci & a Grav Well 3.
There are so many ways to run a B'rel. There are must-have skills at the Ensign & Lieutenant slots like Haz Emitters, and maybe Aux to SIF. You can lump GW1 into a must-have because of the way Science works in this game.
Other than that, what is best in life?
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Something I like to tell folks if they fly a B'rel is:
Use a Cmdr tac if you really really want either to use mines (because of DPB 3) or if you want a high level attack pattern like APB 3 or APO 3. If you don't feel like mines will be a huge issue, or are ok with DPB 1 or 2, then don't worry about having a Cmdr Tac.
On the other end, having a Cmdr sci is great, but you have to be willing to use those four slots as well. And there's a variety of stuff true, but you still have to figure it out. Yes there's something big and obvious like GW 3, but you still have another three slots to fill.
Just something to keep in mind for anyone interested.
EPtS should absolutely be dumped. If you absolutely have to have a shield heal, go with Tac team plus RSP1. Tac team until you're out of shields, then RSP. You only need to buy 20 seconds, and those two will cover half of that. If you've got the T5 romulan rep ability, that will buy you some more. I get by fine with just one copy of EPtE (another reason to dump EPtS), and an Aux2damp.
Don't waste valuable slots with A2B, you only need 20 seconds. If you do the EPtE, A2Damp, RSP, you can use the last ensign slot for another EPtE to permarun it. Personally, I would prolly grab ET since it heals from cloak and will keep your hull up as you will inevitibly take some hits.
You can keep this base whether you go commander tac, or commander sci and it will work reasonably well. I think commander tac is better because you can get APO and still cycle between THY and TS attacks if you want, or slap a dispersal pattern in without have to use two tac officers.
Please note, this was a very hastily put together build for tonight and playing with the Flanking Bonus.
Centerpiece Weapon: Using TAC BUFFs (I favor APO), Dispersal Pattern Beta 3 Nukara Web Mines. For effectiveness, you need to have high Aux Power.
B'Rel Retrofit: Nukara Web Bomber with a KDF Engineer
WEAPONS FWD: Polaron DHCs x4
WEAPONS AFT: Tricobalt Torpedo, Nukara Web Mine
DEFLECTOR, ENGINES, SHIELDS: JHAS Mk XII Set
WARP CORE: Elite Fleet Hyper-Charged Warp Core (A-E type, Weapons Capacitor, and the all important AMP mod)
CONSOLES
- ENG: Dil Mine Neutronium +Turn x2, Aceton Assimilator
- SCI: Assimilated Module, Zero-Point Energy Conduit, Plasmonic Leech
- TAC: Vulnerability Locator (+CritH) x3 - 1 Polaron, 2 Mine Dmg
BOFF SETUP
TAC Cmdr: TS1, CRF1, APO1, DPB3
SCI LtCdr: PH1, HE2, GW1
ENG Lt: EPTS1, ASIF1
ENG Lt: EPTE1, ET2
Space Traits:
Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense:
Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense:
Tactical Advantage
Omega Kinetic Shearing
Critical DOFF: Technician for extra Aux Power while Cloaked.
Power Distribution: Typically fly cloaked with Max Aux Power. Next priority in Power will be Engines, then Shields, then Weapons.
Notes: Firstly, the main purpose of the build is Nukara Web Mine Bombing. The B'Rel & T'Varo are perfect mounts for this. The build also has moderate energy weapons if I ever should decide to go "Pew Pew" with cannons, but again, priority are the Nukara Mines. I could go with more emphasis on projectiles, which changes things considerably on first glance.
Regarding the JHAS Set use, I opted for it due to several reasons:
- Brings a very hefty, Energy Weapons Power bonus since it's my lowest assigned subsystem power priority. Cloaked, Weapons Power sits at 73. Not high, but definitely enough to be useful but not great. If I need that, I can shift power to it, pop a Weapons battery, or use the Warp Core's "Weapons Capacitor" ability. I could replace the shield with an Elite Fleet Resilient Shields-ResB, but the character did not have one on hand.
General Tactic: First, figure out where you need to be to attack and gain "Flanking" bonus. While cloaked, fly past target and drop an Aceton Assimilator nearby. This gets the NPCs' attention. Next pass is the Attack Run... fly in fast, pop APO / TAC BUFFs, DPB3, TS1, then Grav Well 1. When close to the target, fire Nukara Web Mines in close range, turn around (do not fly past), continue speeding away, then fire TS1 with the Tricobalt Torp.
Probably going to change it some more. Maybe more single target emphasis. But it's late and I'm tired at the moment.