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Rep grinds - observation
cbrjwrr
Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
Cryptic - we get that you wanted to cap traits to reduce the gap between someone with all Reps done and a fresh level 50, as as more Reps are added that gap keeps growing. So, the way you've chosen is to cap to four active traits with the rest in reserve - and this, as a look at the responses from a significant number of players shows, has annoyed people to the point of protests in various forms.
As there are 16 traits available (unless some have maxed Undine already - kudos for that) it makes far more sense to make the cap 16, as that is the number of traits you get from maxing the four reps already existing, and we were all perfectly content with the balance between new 50 and finished 50 then. As you've said from the start, this is a change for the future.
A 16 trait cap means that no one loses stuff they have spent time/money (same thing really) earning, and you keep the playerbase who didn't like the change in the first place. No disadvantages, and you achieve the reducing gap aim. What's not to like.
Proviso - Now, I haven't started the Reputations, so if numbers are wrong I apologise.
As there are 16 traits available (unless some have maxed Undine already - kudos for that) it makes far more sense to make the cap 16, as that is the number of traits you get from maxing the four reps already existing, and we were all perfectly content with the balance between new 50 and finished 50 then. As you've said from the start, this is a change for the future.
A 16 trait cap means that no one loses stuff they have spent time/money (same thing really) earning, and you keep the playerbase who didn't like the change in the first place. No disadvantages, and you achieve the reducing gap aim. What's not to like.
Proviso - Now, I haven't started the Reputations, so if numbers are wrong I apologise.
Post edited by cbrjwrr on
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Bit of work now of course, but no more than they did to buff them to start with...
The fact that backpeddling on this issue would set a precedent, and ruin Cryptic's credibility (yes, I said that, without a whiff of irony) when it comes to taking a stand.
Why not increase it a cap of 16? What's that, they're adding a new Rep system - why not increase it to twenty?
So on and so forth.
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My only incentive to complete Dyson Rep was not be be "left behind" on two more space traits. I currently don't see why I should start with the Undine one. The items are just gimmicky and offer no improvement for me and I wouldn't replace any of my currently selected space/ground traits with one of those offered by the new system.
^^This
Which means that to get ppl to actually do reps (I also am considering giving Unidne a miss) they have to make traits/equipment MUCH better than existing rather than just different.
This will lead to more creep not less and new players just playing the new rep grinds rather than the old ones.
...#LLAP...
Sometimes the best move to make is to acknowledge a mistake, sort it, and move on. Life's too short.
Up to Dyson, people did the Reps thinking they would stay as is - with the Undine Rep, we knew in advance a cap was coming.That is the difference.
Power creep - Agreed, why I didn't mention it in the reasons for the cap bit. Lets face it, power creep has to happen, that is just how Free to Play games work.
18-20 would be enough at the moment, but when the next rep is added the situation would repeat. No flat cap is ever high enough, you have to get more trait slots for tier advancement. These traits are nowhere near important enough to make the grind worth it just for "options."
No, actually, it doesn't. Power Creep can be countered with a variety of steps. In STO, the Rep Traits nerf is just one way.
Granted, the Ships and Consoles are the main issue in STO. But you need to walk before you can run.
Personally this change doesn't affect how I feel about the rep system at all. Before this change, I did them either just because or because I wanted gear from them. Now is the same way.
Decent Trait design should make it worthwhile to have them around.
Granted, pretty much all PvE content requires more damage more than anything, but it isn't unsolvable.
New stuff has to be more useful than old stuff in order be worth getting, other wise there is no money in it. That is the way it works.
You can fiddle around the edges but you can't escape that.
Grow up.
Actually, you can. New stuff doesn't necessarily have to be better than old stuff - that's just the last-ditch option of a game with no variety. A smart developer would create new stuff that offers new and different ways of playing without simultaneously making everything that came before it obselete.
As I said, Power Creep isn't something that has to happen. It's merely something that does happen when things aren't thought out very well.
Assuming your 90% is a fair number, lets lookat what that remaining ten percent represent.
These would be players who came to the game at launch, who sunk money into an ailing game to keep it alive, who care about the game enough to want it to succeed.
Now, while I wholeheartedly agree that the casual player is an important demographic, it doesn't have to be a zero sum game.
Helping casual players at the expense of the veterans is not necessary......more imagination, more courage to actually grapple with power creep, more willingness to admit error would open much more useful strategies to ensure this game we love hangs around.
Less expediency, more quality.
I can't think of a single mmo where this has been tried out and worked. There usually is some kind of progression (or "power creep"), weather it's through better/additional skills and traits, through better and harder to obtain items or an item reset combined with a level increase in combination with the aforementioned.
It's still early so I think your math is wrong, but I don't know. Just roll with this ... Old system forced you to choose between two available traits (Offense or Defense) and alternated a forced ground, forced space, forced ground, forced space, Active Clicky.
And had 4 reps.
So each rep itself had 4 ground and 4 space traits. And an added T5 trait.
But you only got 2 ground, 2 space out of the deal. And the T5 trait.
So 16 traits, but 8 ground, 8 space? And the choices were permanent, and cost a respec token to change.
I don't know. I don't think it's as cut and dry. The fact that it forced a choice between two traits. And the fact that you can't really put a value on the flexibility to change your mind, well I guess you could put a zen value on it?
I need some caffeine.
I am a casual player.
I very much care about the game, whether it's Star Trek, and whether it succeeds.
I get maybe 2-3 hours a day maximum to play, and I'm very lucky to be able to do so. (No gf/wife aggro or kids to deal with)
Most of my friends are the same way, and I think you'll find a lot of this demographic in any good Star Trek-based game.
You're treating casual users as if we're all a horde of mercenaries that jump from game to game and don't really care about any of them. That, sir, is pigeonholing.
I'm not assuming anything about the rest of the casual gamers that I don't know, other than that they don't play hours and hours per day, making sure to max all reputations and get all the best gear on every character.
So please, consider people who love the game and are heavily invested emotionally and perhaps financially, but simply don't have the time to play as much as we'd like. If you're going to name anyone not hardcore as "casual", then that described a large number of so-called casual gamers.
It kinda is necessary in this particular case because, as has been ADMITTED by the devs (I can find the actual post if you'd like), they goofed up by creating a reputation system that encouraged power creep in the first place.
They admitted it, and they admitted that this was going to irritate hardcore veterans, but narrowing the power gap between new (or "casual" if you prefer) 50s and hardcore players was necessary before things got too out of hand.
Specifically, allowing people to keep all 16 traits they'd chosen to have wouldn't narrow the gap enough to make being a new 50 not suck. And, undoubtedly, it would suck enough to drive many "casual" players away. This would not be good for a PvP system that is already arguably underpopulated. And of course, PvP is where the power disparity is felt the most.
But even in PvE, being decried as a "noob" just because you can't vape Borg cubes as fast as someone in their shiny A2B-driven Scimitar with all fleet and rep gear and every trait checked isn't a fun experience either.
No, getting toys taken away isn't fun, but neither is being told that you'll never catch up, because you don't play 8-12 hours a day like the "real" players.