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Enhanced Battle Cloaks - No Ambush Buff while EBC is engaged
warmaker001b
Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
Currently in STO, the 2 ships with Enhanced Battle Cloaks, the KDF B'Rel BOP and ROM T'Varo, do not benefit with the Decloak Dmg Bonus ("Ambush" BUFF for the Rommies) while attacking with the Cloak engaged.
The idea that the damage buff from decloaking attacks is there to simulate the surprise attack. This buff should still apply to the B'Rel & T'Varo, because the attacks are still coming out of cloaks. It needs to be applied to attacks performed while the Enhanced Battle Cloak is engaged.
The idea that the damage buff from decloaking attacks is there to simulate the surprise attack. This buff should still apply to the B'Rel & T'Varo, because the attacks are still coming out of cloaks. It needs to be applied to attacks performed while the Enhanced Battle Cloak is engaged.
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Being able to fire without decloaking is a massive advantage in itself, and especially in the case of the T'varo some good captains and builds can actually one-shot targets with proper timing.
The last thing it needs is an extra "constant" damage bonus.
Both ships do in fact fully decloak for a few seconds when they attack.
They therefore should receive the proper decloak damage buff as befits it purpose, even if they do recloak afterwards.
If either ship just partially decloaked, leaving the bulk of themselves in cloak, I would agree. Since they are fully exposed though, if even briefly, the loss of the decloak buff is unfair.
As the OP pointed out, the decloak damage buff exists in part to simulate the shock and awe effect that is inherent in a decloak alpha strike. The B'rel has the most frightening ability to do this with its decloak fire torps quickly recloak move but does not gain its most important effect.
If the B'rel was capable of actually firing its energy weapons in the small 3 second window it was decloaked for I would agree that the damage buff may be bit too much, but since it can only fire torps which are mostly ineffective against healthy shields I see no reason to have them lose this primary advantage of the decloak attack.
R.I.P
The buff needs to apply to these actions.
Also, if this were to happen, the most obnoxious PVP ship ever (T'varo, which is overpowered as it is) would become even more aggravating to fight. If you wanna in cloak all the time, you are stuck without ambush bonus, sounds fair to me. Its bad enough you can stack APA, APB, TT and so on, alongside the ridiculous damage bonus from the Operative trait.
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moar damage is just driving the nail deeper in the coffin
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I was applying this idea to the T'Varo also out of fairness since it is the only other EBC capable ship in the game outside the B'Rel. To apply this idea to only the B'Rel and not the T'Varo, despite the latter having the same feature, is, IMO wrong.
Also, this buff would be a great enhancement to the B'Rel. It's an enhancement to a key feature of the ship, the Enhanced Battle Cloak.
More damage, yes, but right now, Defenses and Repair abilities have never been higher in STO. If these were the days of "Escorts Online," then I'd agree with you. But Non-Escorts, in particular Cruisers, have come full circle and are competitive now with Escorts. Before, there was a huge inequality between Offense & Defense / Staying Power. Today, they are quite even.
EBC isn't meant to be a safe I-Win button.
Sorry EBC is strong enough as is.
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It's not as safe as you think it is.
When you fire out of EBC, again:
- You are immediately detected and targetable.
- You have no shields up; Bare hull is exposed.
- You ARE exposing yourself; You ARE coming out of the cloak, albeit temporarily.
Actions can be taken to look out for and make that EBC attacking ship pay. In PVE, the NPCs automatically target you and shoot the moment you begin that short attack with EBC on. In PVP, players do start looking out for you and can make you pay dearly. Certain attacks will automatically target you anyways if they are already underway and you are within range. It is not a simple matter of being able spam your attacks with EBC on and it being an "I Win Button." Quite frankly, doing that will get you killed. A good B'Rel / T'Varo captain still has to attack at the opportune time.
It's not like the EBC doesn't already have a significant drawback (the no energy weapons thing)... :P
I suspect the bonus is only activated when you decloak.
I do not like Ambush bonus at all, its a crutch mechanic for the devs that lets them substitute an algorithm for gameplay, but even I agree it should be consistently applied and should be active here.
So unless you get a cloak cooldown and you lose your active cloak bonuses, I do not consider it to be truly "de-cloaking."
nor does my tvaro.
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A good pilot knows how to effectively randomize his/her attacks to reduce the risk of interception.
I should know, I fly a B'rel.
Plus the EBC also allows for a whole slew of hull hardening powers to be activated under cloak, as well as heals.
I know what a torpedo bomber with an EBC can do, and its not pretty to people on the recieving end, especially in the case of the T'varo.
Its balanced, but only just, adding the decloak damage bonus would push it beyond Overpowered, especially when you account for the fact that the damage can be boosted up to 30% and extended from 5-15 seconds on a T'varo.
It makes no sense that the B'rel, a vessel designed to capitalize on the decloak alpha torpedo attack does not get the primary benefit of decloaking if only briefly.
If the idea would make the Romulan EBC vessel OP then do not include it in the idea. Let this be a benefit of the KDF whom designed the concept first for the B'rel, even if the damage buff is less than the KDF standard for decloaking.
R.I.P
I fully agree with the OP the Alpha Strike buff should apply to vessels that have the EBC has well.
The B'rel retro and T'varo fully decloak for 3 seconds while attacking and they have no shields to take the incoming counter attacks from their targets and more than deserve the Alpha Strike buff IMO.
I could see not having the alpha buff if say the B'rel Retro and T'varo had a small defense buff or perhaps a small accuracy de-buff for vessels firing at them while the EBC is still active while they are visible but that's far from the case.
According to the description of the EBC on my KDF it does impart a "short duration damage bonus" during its decloak.
I first brought up the idea that the EBC cloakers should recieve the decloak bonus because sources said they currently do not.
If in fact the EBC does not recieve the bonus then its a bug and needs to be fixed.
At this point a Dev confirm would be nice that things are WAI on this issue.
R.I.P
Addendum: You get EBC the way you want when the Fed cloak becomes innate at no penalty. :P
Feddie please! The feds complained about the Avenger before its paint was even dry from spacedock and have done as much complaining for even pettier reasons.
This complaint was over an existing mechanic thought to be missing.
Your troll is weak.
R.I.P
Addendum: According to the power description WE already do! :P
R.I.P
2)
Yeah no, this thread is being closed.
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