I did a bit of "gambling" myself because I started my KDF toon too late to earn enough Qmendations for the Dyson destroyer. I only managed to get 800. I used some refined dilithium and ECs to buy master keys to open the Hirogen lock boxes since each box is supposed to give 4 - 50 Lobi crystals which I can then use to by the remaining 200 Qmendations.
I forget how many Qmendations you get for every 5 lobi crystals you spend. I think it was 20. So that would mean I needed a total of 50 lobi crystals. I bought the keys one at a time. Each time I opened a lock box I was only getting 4 lobi crystals. After 4 keys I decided that was it, I didn't want to wait anymore time or "money" to get the Dyson destroyer.
I forgot what TRIBBLE I got since I quickly put them up on the Exchange to at least get back a small amount of ECs. I decided to keep the very rare Hirgoen Doff, which I guess is a consolation prize of sorts...
284 Promotion Romulan doff packs...
no attack ship. then 284 Romulan survivor packs. No Cellship. No good consoles, (theres only one good console in them anymore) No borg doffs (even though they're junk now also)
And of course no fleet ship modules. they ninja removed them from the doff pack.
600 dollars with of nothing of value. Thanks so much pwe.
Dont Waste your money on thier cstore. Other games give you much more value for your dollar.
That sucks. People on the forums been complaining of the gimmicks and cheap shots Cryptic been doing to it's users. It's pay to gamble if you are going for lock boxes, and pay to win if you want cstore stuff.
Here's the kicker.
The pay to win stuff doesn't mean pay to win. It's more pay to have Cryptic suck you dry money wise.
Oh you don't know, how many Scimitars and JHAS ships blown up in Kerrat.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Please stop trolling the OP. And by that I mean, knock off the insults.
Just out of curiosity, though... What are you going to do/did you do with all of those DOFFs and Lobi?
The DOFFs could be directly sold on the exchange and the Lobi could be used to buy things that could be sold on the exchange. You could still get your JHAS if you can raise enough EC...
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Actually, indirectly TS makes an interesting case.
Namely, and people point it out right away, its considered gambling.
Does cryptic/pwe/arc have a license to provide gambling services?
Because if they dont, and naturally they dont, its actually considered illegal both according to their own local and international laws.
Yes i'm a lawyer by the way, though i'm more familiar with Dutch law.
I still know enough that purely technically, he might actually have a case in court if he can at the very least create reasonable doubts about what service is being provided.
Gambling is after all pretty well defined.
And nobody here can obviously influence the outcome of opening a virtual package in this case.
Thus its gambling and for that you need a license, and since they dont have that, i seriously wonder if its allowed to create virtual goods that allow a customer to engage in gambling.
I dont know, i find stuff like that interesting, since rarely do people act because they think they dont have a case or because "hey thats normal in f2p games" etc.
Please stop trolling the OP. And by that I mean, knock off the insults.
Just out of curiosity, though... What are you going to do/did you do with all of those DOFFs and Lobi?
The DOFFs could be directly sold on the exchange and the Lobi could be used to buy things that could be sold on the exchange. You could still get your JHAS if you can raise enough EC...
JHAS really. That's bad advice. If the person can't do a decent build the JHAS get's blown up like kracker jacks.
So...I'm confused...is this a "CRYPTIC RIPPED ME OFF!" or a "DAMN I'M SO STINKING RICH!" thread?
BTW: I actually think lockboxes and these promotions are a pretty shady business model, specially since they are only digital and Cryptic could manipulated them in any number of ways.
Aye, if I find myself with a bit of extra ec once in awhile, I'll pick up a key from the exchange and see what happens. Usually just 4-5 lobi and something that really doesn't interest me. I figure eventually the lobi will add up enough to be useful. :cool:
Yeah since they finally changed the tour to what I was asking for, it allows me to get some extra EC's for a key, course not as many as I used to buy each day but I can live with 1 a day, so no major complaints.
And maybe if I am really lucky I might land a grand prize ship, that I can turn around and sell on the exchange since none of them really catch my fancy.
I did a bit of "gambling" myself because I started my KDF toon too late to earn enough Qmendations for the Dyson destroyer. I only managed to get 800. I used some refined dilithium and ECs to buy master keys to open the Hirogen lock boxes since each box is supposed to give 4 - 50 Lobi crystals which I can then use to by the remaining 200 Qmendations.
I forget how many Qmendations you get for every 5 lobi crystals you spend. I think it was 20. So that would mean I needed a total of 50 lobi crystals. I bought the keys one at a time. Each time I opened a lock box I was only getting 4 lobi crystals. After 4 keys I decided that was it, I didn't want to wait anymore time or "money" to get the Dyson destroyer.
I forgot what TRIBBLE I got since I quickly put them up on the Exchange to at least get back a small amount of ECs. I decided to keep the very rare Hirgoen Doff, which I guess is a consolation prize of sorts...
The Qmendation box had a Chance to give anywhere from 20 to 40 Qmendations for 5 Lobi each. Needless to say that 'variable Amounts' in an F2P game are naturally weighted towards 'gives less' (hyperbolic rarity, guaranteed to give 4 Lobi, next to impossible to get the 'Big Prize')
Please stop trolling the OP. And by that I mean, knock off the insults.
Just out of curiosity, though... What are you going to do/did you do with all of those DOFFs and Lobi?
The DOFFs could be directly sold on the exchange and the Lobi could be used to buy things that could be sold on the exchange. You could still get your JHAS if you can raise enough EC...
People are not trolling the OP. People are tired of Cryptic bull especially starting with Season 8 and now this reputation system TRIBBLE.
What Cryptic is trying to prevent is going get worst. Also, the Cryptic bashing going be worst because of it.
Actually, indirectly TS makes an interesting case.
Namely, and people point it out right away, its considered gambling.
Does cryptic/pwe/arc have a license to provide gambling services?
Because if they dont, and naturally they dont, its actually considered illegal both according to their own local and international laws.
Yes i'm a lawyer by the way, though i'm more familiar with Dutch law.
I still know enough that purely technically, he might actually have a case in court if he can at the very least create reasonable doubts about what service is being provided.
Gambling is after all pretty well defined.
And nobody here can obviously influence the outcome of opening a virtual package in this case.
Thus its gambling and for that you need a license, and since they dont have that, i seriously wonder if its allowed to create virtual goods that allow a customer to engage in gambling.
I dont know, i find stuff like that interesting, since rarely do people act because they think they dont have a case or because "hey thats normal in f2p games" etc.
As a very-soon-to-be-lawyer and someone working in a law firm for years I asked myself the same question several times,
For all I know this practice is highly illegal. But since cryptic hasn't been shut down years ago there seems to be something allowing that.
Or they simply do not care about things related to online games, there are several mmo related practices that are illegal and happen all the day (China gold)
Actually, indirectly TS makes an interesting case.
Namely, and people point it out right away, its considered gambling.
Does cryptic/pwe/arc have a license to provide gambling services?
Because if they dont, and naturally they dont, its actually considered illegal both according to their own local and international laws.
Yes i'm a lawyer by the way, though i'm more familiar with Dutch law.
I still know enough that purely technically, he might actually have a case in court if he can at the very least create reasonable doubts about what service is being provided.
Gambling is after all pretty well defined.
And nobody here can obviously influence the outcome of opening a virtual package in this case.
Thus its gambling and for that you need a license, and since they dont have that, i seriously wonder if its allowed to create virtual goods that allow a customer to engage in gambling.
I dont know, i find stuff like that interesting, since rarely do people act because they think they dont have a case or because "hey thats normal in f2p games" etc.
I have honestly never thought of it that way before, but you raise a very good point.
You say you are a lawyer, so I'm hoping you dont mind me asking you a question about this.
Is there something we as players could do about this?
Provided we wanted to or cared of course.
A chance (probability) is just that. It is not a guarantee, and there is no "maturity of chances," or (the dressed-up term) "cumulative probability." There is, however, an inference error which is unfortunately very common: The Gambler's Fallacy.
When the outcome of playing a game of chance does not result in the desired outcome, the player has often cried "foul!" but this is because the player has not grasped the verity of "each attempt is statistically independent of every other attempt."
Actually, indirectly TS makes an interesting case.
Namely, and people point it out right away, its considered gambling.
Does cryptic/pwe/arc have a license to provide gambling services?
Because if they dont, and naturally they dont, its actually considered illegal both according to their own local and international laws.
And that's the thing, officially Doff Packs and Lockboxes are not gambling. You're buying Doffs and Lobi with a chance for bonus prizes.
Actually, indirectly TS makes an interesting case.
Namely, and people point it out right away, its considered gambling.
Does cryptic/pwe/arc have a license to provide gambling services?
Because if they dont, and naturally they dont, its actually considered illegal both according to their own local and international laws.
Yes i'm a lawyer by the way, though i'm more familiar with Dutch law.
I still know enough that purely technically, he might actually have a case in court if he can at the very least create reasonable doubts about what service is being provided.
Gambling is after all pretty well defined.
And nobody here can obviously influence the outcome of opening a virtual package in this case.
Thus its gambling and for that you need a license, and since they dont have that, i seriously wonder if its allowed to create virtual goods that allow a customer to engage in gambling.
I dont know, i find stuff like that interesting, since rarely do people act because they think they dont have a case or because "hey thats normal in f2p games" etc.
I believe, that they believe, they subvert these laws by including a guaranteed pittance of lobi in each pack.
Aye, if I find myself with a bit of extra ec once in awhile, I'll pick up a key from the exchange and see what happens. Usually just 4-5 lobi and something that really doesn't interest me. I figure eventually the lobi will add up enough to be useful. :cool:
This is the thing to do, in my case i dont buy keys from the exchange since its not so easy to gather 2 million EC nowadays. I prefer just to buy a couple of keys every day, using dilithium-zen exchange, and thats it. Eventually the lobis will be useful for buy something lol.
Since im saving for the hirogen apex or anything else, i need or 800 lobis or about 90 million EC. So, one thing or another. Sometimes i open a lock box, sometimes i just sell the other key. Eventually i will be able to buy the ship. And if i use EC (probably since i have about 60 mill right now) i will have lobi crystals to spent in something else.
The problem is when you want everything asap. And that is a really bad decision if you play STO. If you have patience, you can buy EVERYTHING without even waste a zen. And thats the whole point.
I have honestly never thought of it that way before, but you raise a very good point.
You say you are a lawyer, so I'm hoping you dont mind me asking you a question about this.
Is there something we as players could do about this?
Provided we wanted to or cared of course.
There certainly is, but if successful the result would not be lock boxes removed from sto, it would be sto removed from existing.
284 Promotion Romulan doff packs...
no attack ship. then 284 Romulan survivor packs. No Cellship. No good consoles, (theres only one good console in them anymore) No borg doffs (even though they're junk now also)
And of course no fleet ship modules. they ninja removed them from the doff pack.
600 dollars with of nothing of value. Thanks so much pwe.
Dont Waste your money on thier cstore. Other games give you much more value for your dollar.
You could have gave me part of that money. I sure as heck wouldn't have bought lockboxes etc. Maybe a few hundred of mmo, 3d, and game programming. Then I would start on Star Trek Online 2.0
That sucks. Cryptic has all your money tho. Be happy for that.
I have honestly never thought of it that way before, but you raise a very good point.
You say you are a lawyer, so I'm hoping you dont mind me asking you a question about this.
Is there something we as players could do about this?
Provided we wanted to or cared of course.
Depends if the EULA mentions anything about, and damn it to hell i cant remember the exact english wording, but banding together to go to court. (whether thats allowed or not)
Even though the EULA might say that, its not considered legal everywhere in every country.
In The Netherlands for example, a clause containing such a thing would be against the law and so its not legal, at least that part of it.
But yeh it would probably cost alot of money, and as someone else pointed out, the wording of the item they provide could potentially cover legal issues.
I still have doubts but thats because im a thinker :P
Edit : i meant a class action law suit, took my brain a while haha.
284 Promotion Romulan doff packs...
no attack ship. then 284 Romulan survivor packs. No Cellship. No good consoles, (theres only one good console in them anymore) No borg doffs (even though they're junk now also)
And of course no fleet ship modules. they ninja removed them from the doff pack.
600 dollars with of nothing of value. Thanks so much pwe.
Dont Waste your money on thier cstore. Other games give you much more value for your dollar.
You gambled (a ridiculous amount of money) and lost. Your fault, not Cryptics. And for what, a ship you don't really need.
Well if nobody is going to say it I will, sorry for not getting what you were after, but TY for your overall contribution towards keeping this game running for us all. :cool:
I believe, that they believe, they subvert these laws by including a guaranteed pittance of lobi in each pack.
Well that might be the case now, but in the beginning we did purchase the boxes directly. And after that, with the key/box system, we didn't have lobby. That came much later.
Still there was some other TRIBBLE in that, so it might count...
There certainly is, but if successful the result would not be lock boxes removed from sto, it would be sto removed from existing.
Where I stand gambling implies a chance to loose or get nothing where as you always get something with either a lockbox or doff pack. The only difference is the value of said item
NERF CANNONS - THEY NEED A 50% NERF
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
Comments
But I'm glad this thread appears every time they do a promo, it reminds me again to not spend real money gambling.
You need a reminder for that? :P
I did a bit of "gambling" myself because I started my KDF toon too late to earn enough Qmendations for the Dyson destroyer. I only managed to get 800. I used some refined dilithium and ECs to buy master keys to open the Hirogen lock boxes since each box is supposed to give 4 - 50 Lobi crystals which I can then use to by the remaining 200 Qmendations.
I forget how many Qmendations you get for every 5 lobi crystals you spend. I think it was 20. So that would mean I needed a total of 50 lobi crystals. I bought the keys one at a time. Each time I opened a lock box I was only getting 4 lobi crystals. After 4 keys I decided that was it, I didn't want to wait anymore time or "money" to get the Dyson destroyer.
I forgot what TRIBBLE I got since I quickly put them up on the Exchange to at least get back a small amount of ECs. I decided to keep the very rare Hirgoen Doff, which I guess is a consolation prize of sorts...
That sucks. People on the forums been complaining of the gimmicks and cheap shots Cryptic been doing to it's users. It's pay to gamble if you are going for lock boxes, and pay to win if you want cstore stuff.
Here's the kicker.
The pay to win stuff doesn't mean pay to win. It's more pay to have Cryptic suck you dry money wise.
Oh you don't know, how many Scimitars and JHAS ships blown up in Kerrat.
Don't open lockboxes if you don't want the things you're likely to get from lockboxes (which are generally pretty decent IMO).
Please stop trolling the OP. And by that I mean, knock off the insults.
Just out of curiosity, though... What are you going to do/did you do with all of those DOFFs and Lobi?
The DOFFs could be directly sold on the exchange and the Lobi could be used to buy things that could be sold on the exchange. You could still get your JHAS if you can raise enough EC...
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Lol, i dont waste any real money in this game for anything, not only gambling. Its stupid.
LMAO Priceless
Namely, and people point it out right away, its considered gambling.
Does cryptic/pwe/arc have a license to provide gambling services?
Because if they dont, and naturally they dont, its actually considered illegal both according to their own local and international laws.
Yes i'm a lawyer by the way, though i'm more familiar with Dutch law.
I still know enough that purely technically, he might actually have a case in court if he can at the very least create reasonable doubts about what service is being provided.
Gambling is after all pretty well defined.
And nobody here can obviously influence the outcome of opening a virtual package in this case.
Thus its gambling and for that you need a license, and since they dont have that, i seriously wonder if its allowed to create virtual goods that allow a customer to engage in gambling.
I dont know, i find stuff like that interesting, since rarely do people act because they think they dont have a case or because "hey thats normal in f2p games" etc.
JHAS really. That's bad advice. If the person can't do a decent build the JHAS get's blown up like kracker jacks.
BTW: I actually think lockboxes and these promotions are a pretty shady business model, specially since they are only digital and Cryptic could manipulated them in any number of ways.
The problem is, rich people usually dont think when they have so much money to throw away lol. Specially in gambling matters.
Yeah since they finally changed the tour to what I was asking for, it allows me to get some extra EC's for a key, course not as many as I used to buy each day but I can live with 1 a day, so no major complaints.
And maybe if I am really lucky I might land a grand prize ship, that I can turn around and sell on the exchange since none of them really catch my fancy.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The Qmendation box had a Chance to give anywhere from 20 to 40 Qmendations for 5 Lobi each. Needless to say that 'variable Amounts' in an F2P game are naturally weighted towards 'gives less' (hyperbolic rarity, guaranteed to give 4 Lobi, next to impossible to get the 'Big Prize')
People are not trolling the OP. People are tired of Cryptic bull especially starting with Season 8 and now this reputation system TRIBBLE.
What Cryptic is trying to prevent is going get worst. Also, the Cryptic bashing going be worst because of it.
As a very-soon-to-be-lawyer and someone working in a law firm for years I asked myself the same question several times,
For all I know this practice is highly illegal. But since cryptic hasn't been shut down years ago there seems to be something allowing that.
Or they simply do not care about things related to online games, there are several mmo related practices that are illegal and happen all the day (China gold)
You say you are a lawyer, so I'm hoping you dont mind me asking you a question about this.
Is there something we as players could do about this?
Provided we wanted to or cared of course.
The Gambler's Fallacy.
When the outcome of playing a game of chance does not result in the desired outcome, the player has often cried "foul!" but this is because the player has not grasped the verity of "each attempt is statistically independent of every other attempt."
And that's the thing, officially Doff Packs and Lockboxes are not gambling. You're buying Doffs and Lobi with a chance for bonus prizes.
It's how they can legally sidestep gambling laws.
I believe, that they believe, they subvert these laws by including a guaranteed pittance of lobi in each pack.
This is the thing to do, in my case i dont buy keys from the exchange since its not so easy to gather 2 million EC nowadays. I prefer just to buy a couple of keys every day, using dilithium-zen exchange, and thats it. Eventually the lobis will be useful for buy something lol.
Since im saving for the hirogen apex or anything else, i need or 800 lobis or about 90 million EC. So, one thing or another. Sometimes i open a lock box, sometimes i just sell the other key. Eventually i will be able to buy the ship. And if i use EC (probably since i have about 60 mill right now) i will have lobi crystals to spent in something else.
The problem is when you want everything asap. And that is a really bad decision if you play STO. If you have patience, you can buy EVERYTHING without even waste a zen. And thats the whole point.
also you arm chair lawyers need a new hobby.
And I believe (although I might be wrong) that they have never released actual odds of winning the gamble which helps them circumvent law?
There certainly is, but if successful the result would not be lock boxes removed from sto, it would be sto removed from existing.
You could have gave me part of that money. I sure as heck wouldn't have bought lockboxes etc. Maybe a few hundred of mmo, 3d, and game programming. Then I would start on Star Trek Online 2.0
That sucks. Cryptic has all your money tho. Be happy for that.
Depends if the EULA mentions anything about, and damn it to hell i cant remember the exact english wording, but banding together to go to court. (whether thats allowed or not)
Even though the EULA might say that, its not considered legal everywhere in every country.
In The Netherlands for example, a clause containing such a thing would be against the law and so its not legal, at least that part of it.
But yeh it would probably cost alot of money, and as someone else pointed out, the wording of the item they provide could potentially cover legal issues.
I still have doubts but thats because im a thinker :P
Edit : i meant a class action law suit, took my brain a while haha.
You gambled (a ridiculous amount of money) and lost. Your fault, not Cryptics. And for what, a ship you don't really need.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I think they did.... It's below 1 percent. 0,025 or something like that...
Well that might be the case now, but in the beginning we did purchase the boxes directly. And after that, with the key/box system, we didn't have lobby. That came much later.
Still there was some other TRIBBLE in that, so it might count...
Where I stand gambling implies a chance to loose or get nothing where as you always get something with either a lockbox or doff pack. The only difference is the value of said item
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF