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Powers: Multi-Classing and Abandon Ship
icegavel
Member Posts: 991 Arc User
So, these are ideas I've had for a while now, and I figure I'd air them to see how they went.
I'll start with what I mean by "Multi-classing". By this, I mean that it would be nice to have a minor in another class (for instance, a Science Officer with a minor in Engineering). When Season 7 was in development, I was in a Q&A with dStahl at one point. I asked if the Reputation system would do this, and his answer, effectively, was yes. However, it does not actually do this. So, what I propose, is, effectively, the ability to learn one class-ability from another class for ground and space. The space powers, I propose, would be limited to the abilities you get as a Lieutenant (Attack Pattern Alpha, Sensor Scan, and Rotate Shield Frequency), because these powers are simple enough that any first-year cadet should be able to do them. On ground, however, I propose instead that you be allowed to gain a Kit power from the other class, to be used in the new Modular Kit system currently on Tribble. Effectively, because of how the new Kits work (I having played with them on Tribble), you would be able to (if you had the proper Kit - these would need to be created) equip a Module for a Kit power from another class, given the appropriate slot. Why I would like this is simple: It's canon. See DS9 Season 3, episode 26, "The Adversary." Changeling!Bashir is working in a Jefferies Tube on the Defiant and O'Brien finds him. Changeling!Bashir uses an excuse ("tying in a new medical console into the main power grid, with knowledge gained from an engineering extension course he took at Starfleet Academy", summarizes the Memory Alpha Article), and O'Brien believes it. That effectively means that such extension courses are offered at the Academy, which means that players should have access to them. There is, after all, no reason not to. This would need to be balanced, of course (perhaps by limiting the Rank of the ability to I or II), but it would be a nice addition.
The second idea I'd like to address is Abandon Ship. This is an ability that... well, let's not beat around the bush, it sucks. Difficult to use, results in death, doesn't really do much unless your enemy is REALLY close. But something needs to be there. So, I've come up with a replacement... and the tech is basically already there. Instead of Abandon Ship... why don't we Eject the Core?
This would be a toggle ability that can only be activated when your ship has 30% or less hull. Activating it will spawn an entity below your ship - your warp/singularity core. As a consequence, main power on your ship goes out, and you need to switch to auxiliary. Your ship's Aux Power is dropped to 5, and your other systems gain power based on it (effectively, a continuous passive Aux to Bat, except the power that would normally be a bonus is instead all of your power). The ship you fly determines how much power you get: Escorts gain the equivalent to Aux to Bat I, Science Vessels and Destroyers gain Aux to Bat II, and Cruisers and Carriers gain Aux to Bat III. Auxiliary Batteries will auto-dump their bonus power into the other systems, as well, but other batteries are unchanged. As another consequence, all stat bonuses and powers granted by your ship's equipped Warp/Singularity Core (as well as the Aux to Bat BOff ability, since it becomes passive) are disabled when your core is ejected.
"But Ice," I hear you say, "Why would I want this?"
Well, my fellow player, the answer is simple: If you hit 0 Hull when your Core has been ejected, instead of exploding, you are Disabled (after all, your ship explodes due to Core Breach). This tech is already in place for player ships - as any player flying a Voth Ship with the Ward Repair Ship console will tell you. However, this disable is different in several ways. One, you are still targetable by allies. Two, you can be brought out of it by being healed above 50% Hull. Three, you can still activate Engineering Team while disabled (though, it becomes a self-cast only - your ship is disabled, so your transporters are offline). You will also be temporarily disabled if your Auxiliary Subsystem is disabled or drained to zero (since your ship is running on Aux). However, it gives you a chance to return to the fight in one piece, and a chance to pick yourself back up later. You will, of course, have the option to respawn, if need be.
However, while your ore is ejected, it's vulnerable. Your Core would have 1 health, no shields, and no damage resist, and if it dies, you have to respawn (the power will toggle off, but the effects won't go away). However, it gradually gains stealth over time (as it is shut down before ejection, and is gradually losing power). So, once all of the power is drained out of it, it gains a massive amount of Stealth (because it is small and emitting no power signature) - about 10,000 - to make sure enemies can't shoot it so easily. Once the battle ends, you can fly back to your Core and begin a reintegration sequence (toggling off the power and starting a considerable cooldown - the power can only be toggled off if your Core is within 0.75 km of your ship). So, instead of dying, you get a fighting chance. While this may not seem appealing to some players... I see it as a far better alternative to a button that forces you to die.
With that, I welcome any feedback anyone might have.
I'll start with what I mean by "Multi-classing". By this, I mean that it would be nice to have a minor in another class (for instance, a Science Officer with a minor in Engineering). When Season 7 was in development, I was in a Q&A with dStahl at one point. I asked if the Reputation system would do this, and his answer, effectively, was yes. However, it does not actually do this. So, what I propose, is, effectively, the ability to learn one class-ability from another class for ground and space. The space powers, I propose, would be limited to the abilities you get as a Lieutenant (Attack Pattern Alpha, Sensor Scan, and Rotate Shield Frequency), because these powers are simple enough that any first-year cadet should be able to do them. On ground, however, I propose instead that you be allowed to gain a Kit power from the other class, to be used in the new Modular Kit system currently on Tribble. Effectively, because of how the new Kits work (I having played with them on Tribble), you would be able to (if you had the proper Kit - these would need to be created) equip a Module for a Kit power from another class, given the appropriate slot. Why I would like this is simple: It's canon. See DS9 Season 3, episode 26, "The Adversary." Changeling!Bashir is working in a Jefferies Tube on the Defiant and O'Brien finds him. Changeling!Bashir uses an excuse ("tying in a new medical console into the main power grid, with knowledge gained from an engineering extension course he took at Starfleet Academy", summarizes the Memory Alpha Article), and O'Brien believes it. That effectively means that such extension courses are offered at the Academy, which means that players should have access to them. There is, after all, no reason not to. This would need to be balanced, of course (perhaps by limiting the Rank of the ability to I or II), but it would be a nice addition.
The second idea I'd like to address is Abandon Ship. This is an ability that... well, let's not beat around the bush, it sucks. Difficult to use, results in death, doesn't really do much unless your enemy is REALLY close. But something needs to be there. So, I've come up with a replacement... and the tech is basically already there. Instead of Abandon Ship... why don't we Eject the Core?
This would be a toggle ability that can only be activated when your ship has 30% or less hull. Activating it will spawn an entity below your ship - your warp/singularity core. As a consequence, main power on your ship goes out, and you need to switch to auxiliary. Your ship's Aux Power is dropped to 5, and your other systems gain power based on it (effectively, a continuous passive Aux to Bat, except the power that would normally be a bonus is instead all of your power). The ship you fly determines how much power you get: Escorts gain the equivalent to Aux to Bat I, Science Vessels and Destroyers gain Aux to Bat II, and Cruisers and Carriers gain Aux to Bat III. Auxiliary Batteries will auto-dump their bonus power into the other systems, as well, but other batteries are unchanged. As another consequence, all stat bonuses and powers granted by your ship's equipped Warp/Singularity Core (as well as the Aux to Bat BOff ability, since it becomes passive) are disabled when your core is ejected.
"But Ice," I hear you say, "Why would I want this?"
Well, my fellow player, the answer is simple: If you hit 0 Hull when your Core has been ejected, instead of exploding, you are Disabled (after all, your ship explodes due to Core Breach). This tech is already in place for player ships - as any player flying a Voth Ship with the Ward Repair Ship console will tell you. However, this disable is different in several ways. One, you are still targetable by allies. Two, you can be brought out of it by being healed above 50% Hull. Three, you can still activate Engineering Team while disabled (though, it becomes a self-cast only - your ship is disabled, so your transporters are offline). You will also be temporarily disabled if your Auxiliary Subsystem is disabled or drained to zero (since your ship is running on Aux). However, it gives you a chance to return to the fight in one piece, and a chance to pick yourself back up later. You will, of course, have the option to respawn, if need be.
However, while your ore is ejected, it's vulnerable. Your Core would have 1 health, no shields, and no damage resist, and if it dies, you have to respawn (the power will toggle off, but the effects won't go away). However, it gradually gains stealth over time (as it is shut down before ejection, and is gradually losing power). So, once all of the power is drained out of it, it gains a massive amount of Stealth (because it is small and emitting no power signature) - about 10,000 - to make sure enemies can't shoot it so easily. Once the battle ends, you can fly back to your Core and begin a reintegration sequence (toggling off the power and starting a considerable cooldown - the power can only be toggled off if your Core is within 0.75 km of your ship). So, instead of dying, you get a fighting chance. While this may not seem appealing to some players... I see it as a far better alternative to a button that forces you to die.
With that, I welcome any feedback anyone might have.
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On the second point, I was completely on bored for this power until the part about the warp core stealthing over time, and picking it back up after battle.
I'll have to dig into the lore again, but as far as I can remember, everytime a ship ejected a warpcore, it exploded shortly afterwards. and this could still be a valid function. Whichever the final outcome, I wholeheartedly agree that Abandon Ship as it is currently in game is completely useless, and I don't even keep it on my bars.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
VOY: Day of Honor (s04e03). Voyager ejected its core after a failed transwarp experiment, but later recovered it.This also happened in Cathexis (VOY s01e13) and Renaissance Man (VOY s07e24). So, it can be retrieved if it isn't destroyed. Full details about the ejection system at its Memory Alpha page.
I guess I'd have to check with all the other series to see if every instance of ejecting a warp core in the other series leads to a warp core explosion because Voyager has bent reality several times.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
The Defiant tried to in "The Visitor", but the system failed. And, likewise, the Enterprise-E ejected its core in Insurrection, but detonated it. Had they not, they would have been able to retrieve it. The point of the ejection system is to protect against catastrophic failure, be it getting away from a breaching core a la ST: Generations (even though they didn't eject, they did try to get away with the saucer) or preventing it from breaching a la Day of Honor.
I sympathize with your dislike of Voyager, even if I don't agree with it (I can tolerate some of its better episodes). I actually had to look up the references I cited, I only knew Day of Honor off-hand.
In my opinion, I think the old "Abandon Ship" functionality should be ported over to the warp core, with it detonating some time after being ejected, unless you can get back to it and recover it before then. However, the survival of your ship should not be tied to recovering the warp core, instead having a cooldown while engineering teams fabricate a replacement. Recovering the warp core would provide some risk, but would reward a successful recovery with no cooldown period.
yea I like the idea of dropping your warpcore under 50% health in a crowd and then watching it explode a few seconds later.....after I hit ramming speed/evasive LOL
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
When I first read this, I thought "That's a terrible idea." But, thinking about it, the ticking clock would be a nice touch for balancing it instead of it making players unkillable - plus, if your hull is at 50%, your warp core is probably a bit shaky, anyway. Still, there really shouldn't be a reason for the enemy NOT to be able to shoot the core while its out in space. This is meant to be "I might die but I wanna stay in this for a bit longer." Risk with reward. So... 2 minutes? Plus the "disable if you die" bit?
Yeah multi classing is not a new idea per say many muds/mush/muse's back in the 80's and 90's used this game mechanic. Some of the more popular ones you started off as a certain class and then you did a subclass of 2-3 classes and then became like an avatar of your original class. I myself basically did the game design on many of them way back when or assisted in setups of them. The funny part though is the original mmo's basically attempted to copy some of these but no mmorpg out there has ever build the more hardcore mechanics of these types of games. Most likely reasoning behind it is those games way back when were not corporately driven in the manner of making money so things like loosing your gear when you die or loosing a few pieces if you died in pvp they worry about retaliation from players who spend money on said items thus holding back the potential growth of the games of today.
The other aspect of this is that they already have such a hard time balancing the game and leaving some things behind like a lot of those fleet ships on fed and kdf side that don't have anything unique other than the way they look falling under power creeps of attempting to sell stuff in the better/or noob best statements lol to make a quick buck. The programming time and the lack of development for existing game assets it just wouldn't be feasible without alienating people.
One's more like a passive-agressive version of Ramming Speed's kamikaze attack, while the other allows for a second chance to get back into the fight (or get away) if your ship can be sufficiently repaired by yourself or an ally.
No, you wouldn't lose the item. The gear itself wouldn't be ejected. It'd be an ability, with a cooldown on it depending on whether or not you could recover the warp core "critter" before it explodes. Although you could sacrifice said "critter" in an attempt to damage enemies instead of trying to recover it.
The eject warp core function sounds interesting. I think space combat death needs an overhaul. Why isn't it more like ground combat? In my opinion, unless you are "killed" by a critical hit, your ship should always be disabled in space once you reach 0 hull. Similiar to ground, you drift and are presented with the choice of calling for help (distress call) and abandon ship/self-destruct (respawn and aoe damage). While adrift, allies can resurrect you (25% hull and shields, 75% if an engineer does it) or target your ship with a tractor beam and pull you to a safe distance. Likewise, as long as you are adrift, you may be boarded by enemies, especially Borg, which will result in a captured/assimilated state, similiar to ground again. For a limited period of time your ship is under AI control, attacking your allie with 25-50% hull and shield - your team might for the first time hate your 60k dps monstrosity :P
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Secondly if you lose your core, all subs should be down to 0 while auxillary carries you on from there with as you said 0 aux power while providing a sort of aux2batt to the others, but this needs to be time gated due to power limits.
Also thirdly this would pretty much leave you almost defenseless, as without much power and running on emergency juice someone can swoop by and obliterate you quickly.
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Your wall of words aside, get rid of captain professions and the problems will solve itself.
Or did you think the whole "switching between reputation system powers" idea is something Cryptic came up with?
No, it came from people saying "captain professions make no sense, let players choose captain powers from a list of all powers. Let people 'have their captains their way'."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Problem is, Abandon Ship already does that. And it's such a terrible concept that most players forget it exists, if it's on their power tray or NOT. Its concept is there, but it's not good at its job. Otherwise, a revamp/replace wouldn't be needed.
That's... kinda the point. What's the point in pressing an "I quit" button once every three minutes? I'm literally saying "remove Abandon Ship and replace it with something USEFUL."
Auxiliary power is - you guessed it - a system in Trek that is supposed to carry a ship for moderate periods of time in case of main power failure - time enough to get main power online, which may take days. No, your other systems don't (and shouldn't) go to zero - your auxiliary systems are kicking in and giving those systems power instead. Think "backup generator." Most buildings have them.
As for draining all the aux, the point of leaving 5 is so that you can still use aux-based heals - so that you can stay in the fight. Let me put it this way... you drain a battery to "empty." But, the battery isn't actually empty. There ARE still a few electrons in there - just not enough for your big device to pull on. However, that battery might just have enough juice to run lesser devices - for a little while. Not the best metaphor, it gives you an idea. The auxiliary "batteries," if you will, aren't 100% drained.
Defenseless? No. At risk? Yes. As is the point. Your auxiliary power is running your ship so you won't be defenseless. Is this probably something that wouldn't be much use in PvP? Probably, but nothing's much use in PvP. And do you know what's less of a use in PvP?
Abandon Ship. At least this does something.
The kit powers need to be universal. The only thing that should differentiate one captain from another is non kit powers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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