Because that would turn this game in to ST: Legacy, and that game was terrible.
So trying to make our rank of Vice Admiral or Admiral actually make sense would make the game into a completely different game? Without seeing the system in action, then there is no way to compare it to another Star Trek game.
Does an extra 10 levels mean having to buy new gear and upgrading to XIII?
My opinion is that the level cap increase wont raise your rank from Vice Admiral but instead allow you to branch off into specific career paths... kinda like the legacy tree in SWTOR.
I have no problem saying that; I don't want a level increase to #60 because all my XII Fleet and Rep Gear will become obsolete.
Yeah and so will everyone else's gear, all it means is that that you'll start at square one with the rest of us.
I have no issues with Cryptic raising the level cap from 50 - 60 and if by doing so the equipment that I have becomes out dated, I'll replace it when and where I can.
I do not understand that fear of change that some players display.
This is an MMO and MMO's are supposed to be ever changing and that sometimes includes our Characters and the Equipment that they use.
It's like asking Sony to stop making newer Televisions or Home entertainment systems because you already have the latest hotness and do not want to have to go out and get the next.
If there is to a level cap increase, I welcome it and all that it entails.
Does an extra 10 levels mean having to buy new gear and upgrading to XIII?
Mk XIV... that's exactly what it means. All your current mk XII elite fleet gear will become obsolete. Plus the new mk XIV super elite fleet gear will be even more expensive. I estimate that it will cost like 1.5 times of current max level gear. And don't expect that you will be able to purchase this gear just like that. It's very much likely that fleets will have to level up their holdings to the next Tier first.
But that's only part of the matter. All your fleet ships will have to be upgraded by purchasing some super fleet module that will cost like 1000 zen. They might even come up with the idea to introduce a new Tier VI for your different reputations.
In summary a level cap increase means a MASSIVE ressource sink and once you've reached lvl 60 and have all your favorite gear you will end up where you started... dominating all enemies in the different fleet actions.
Almost every MMO eventually adds a level cap. Your argument that people earned top level gear does not hold up --- in ALL the other MMOs level caps are raised and the players have a blast doing new content and earning new items, developing new builds, tinkering and tweaking from scratch. That is *fun* for a lot of players. Very few players prefer to use the same gear for 10 years running and never upgrade it. I have yet to see a well done expansion with a level cap increase that drove people to quit playing because "in spite of the new gear and content, the $20 I spent 4 years ago is now worthless". I have seen bad expansions, that is another story.
Assuming people in general want upgrades and new shinys, there are 2 choices:
1) level cap up -- levels the playing field (everyone starts over), new tougher content, a chance to make major overhauls and apply lessons learned over the last few years, etc.
2) keep adding level 50 gear that are upgrades and really level 75 gear, any new content is doable by 'average' 50s and very boring for geared players, and watch the fireworks as one person solos 5 man content. Widen the gap between new players and vets so new folks give up on pvp entirely, and are unable to even shoot in pve as nothing is alive long enough to even target it. Fun for all, right?
Reputation and Fleet Gear and purple DOffs are the new level 60.
Don't believe me?
Take a level 50 character in their 9-console RA ship with Mk XI+XII V. Rare equipment (drops, mission items, etc.), compare them to a character Fleet-grade ship (IE: 10 consoles), stacked with the very best fleet gear (with occaisional choice bits of gear from the rep system, natch), completed rep grind passives, and max-quality DOffs (don't forget to buy your 6th DOff slot).
You're close, maybe at 10 levels of raw, statistical power over the poor, newly-minted level 50.
PS: Romulan Faction characters can add 3 to 10 additional levels depending on whether they have the Valdore console, and whether or not they've got a whole crew of Sup. Operative/Infiltrator BOffs.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
i think Level 60 or the introduction of Mk XII, Mk XIV is bad.
Many players are already complaining about the Rep system and might leave if they have to start over again because their Mk XII stuff becomes obsolete.
Cryptic put too much faith in the reputation systems and grinding instead of adding new stuff. It took a lot of time for many players to reach mk XII so they would be insulted if suddenly mkXIII was on the market.
Introduce a wider variety of consoles and weapons instead with more Focus on different skills. Shields that reflect weapons fire or add energy to the weapons system to allow more or heavier salvos or whatever so you have more ways to build your ship and make it different from others just not by making everything that was introduced over the last years worthless.
It just has been too long since the last Mk increase and the system we have is working well. Maybe introduce new enemies with special abilities that challenge our builds but not another Mk
We have lots of different weapons. We have the classic ones (AP, Tet, Dis, Pha, Pla, Pol) WE have the hybirds which are different, we have the Special weapons like Destabilizing Tetryon, Refracting Tetryon Voth Antiproton, Spiral wave Disruptors, Elachi crescent, Retrofit Phasers and others that have the same name as the standard ones but still are different . Now we get Proton Weapons.
I dont know if there are other wepon types in Star trek. We could start with Anti-Borg Railguns or Lasers which would have about 100 DPS because they are old as hell.
It would be nice if they could update those weapons first so Lvl 50 Players can get Mk XII purple Retrofit phasers, Phaser Rifles, Jem Hadar sets, Breen sets ( not from the damn lobi store unless there are more ways to get lobi. I am not buying lockboxes) instead of those mk XI ones which are just Lvl 40 systems
All 5 of my chars have full rep n mkxii fleet or rep sets at the moment i dont have much to work on.
So i need something to do lvl 60 sounds great to me as long as there add harder content to go with it. At the moment im just grinding for sets that i wont use or to give to my away team in my roms case.
Yes i am a bit of a hardcore elitest who loves puging just to belittle the fed players. That get shocked when im in my bop n kill cubes transformers gates faster then the rest of the team can do one tranformer.
I need something new to do simple this gane become to easy.
Ive ko cse kse n ise with two man teams n hse with a 3 man team.
Lvl 60 is the only way to go for players like me or we move on to other games with our money.
We have lots of different weapons. We have the classic ones (AP, Tet, Dis, Pha, Pla, Pol) WE have the hybirds which are different, we have the Special weapons like Destabilizing Tetryon, Refracting Tetryon Voth Antiproton, Spiral wave Disruptors, Elachi crescent, Retrofit Phasers and others that have the same name as the standard ones but still are different . Now we get Proton Weapons.
I dont know if there are other wepon types in Star trek. We could start with Anti-Borg Railguns or Lasers which would have about 100 DPS because they are old as hell.
It would be nice if they could update those weapons first so Lvl 50 Players can get Mk XII purple Retrofit phasers, Phaser Rifles, Jem Hadar sets, Breen sets ( not from the damn lobi store unless there are more ways to get lobi. I am not buying lockboxes) instead of those mk XI ones which are just Lvl 40 systems
proton weapons are the next logical choice. Probably behave like transphasic, doing minor hull damage thru the shields? They have to be careful with this one, which may be why it is not out yet.
Finishing each reputation could award you two levels of increase. So, hypothetically, if I'm a level 50 who starts and finishes the Omega rep, it would award me two levels to level 52. Finishing the Rom rep would award me two more, to level 54, and so on. Once all reps are finished (since there's now 4 reps and one to come in season 9, I believe), this would award the requisite 10 levels to put a player at level 60. Then a special project could be run to promote Boffs to captain and you to a fleet/full admiral...
What do you think?
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
All 5 of my chars have full rep n mkxii fleet or rep sets at the moment i dont have much to work on.
So i need something to do lvl 60 sounds great to me as long as there add harder content to go with it. At the moment im just grinding for sets that i wont use or to give to my away team in my roms case.
Yes i am a bit of a hardcore elitest who loves puging just to belittle the fed players. That get shocked when im in my bop n kill cubes transformers gates faster then the rest of the team can do one tranformer.
I need something new to do simple this gane become to easy.
Ive ko cse kse n ise with two man teams n hse with a 3 man team.
Lvl 60 is the only way to go for players like me or we move on to other games with our money.
Yes harder content is ok but no Mk XIII because otherwise you would be exactly where you are now. Top weapons but no worthy enemies. A Lecel Cap increase combined with more Missions (no rep. systems) to continue the Iconian storyline with very rare rewards would be OK.
And if you dont have much to work on play foundry missions. Many of them are very good and worth playing. But all the grinding is the reason players do nothing more than to run from one REp. System to the other and grind stuff they cant even use (and still want more of it and stronger Mk XIII) instead of playing the game.
Look, better weapons, equipment and harder content evens out. What is the point of it. no player ever failed in leveling because he lacked the skill to reach max level. If you can make from level one to two, and you can, you can make it to 10, 20, to max level, whatever it is. People 'fail' at some point to get to max level because the are bored, no longer interested in the game and have found another game.
The game and every game could be more challenging by making the AI more sophisticated. For instance you could have friendly fire, AoE damage does hit friend and foe because lets face it only hitting the foe with your AoE attacks is kids play.
What I don't understand. If you like to level, roll a new character. Then you can do it all again and have the feeling of making progress. I did it. I have lots of alts and I don't mind to do it again when new clases, races or a faction is rolled out, but not if the leveling path is long. Going from 20 to 30 differs not much from going from 30 to 40 which is more or less the same experience as going from 40 to 50. You are sure you want to go to 60?
Look, better weapons, equipment and harder content evens out. What is the point of it. no player ever failed in leveling because he lacked the skill to reach max level. If you can make from level one to two, and you can, you can make it to 10, 20, to max level, whatever it is. People 'fail' at some point to get to max level because the are bored, no longer interested in the game and have found another game.
The game and every game could be more challenging by making the AI more sophisticated. For instance you could have friendly fire, AoE damage does hit friend and foe because lets face it only hitting the foe with your AoE attacks is kids play.
friendly fire = stupid mechanic for RPGs and makes AOE useless in team play
friendly fire = stupid mechanic for RPGs and makes AOE useless in team play
and in what world does friendly fire = AI?
You are an example of how some people 'think'. Friendly fire is not common in MMO, so not standard mechanic, not wanted. Levels is standard game mechanic, every game has it, so wanted. You want all the games be the same, look the same and play the same.
Besides, we have some friendly fire in this game. Ever been close to w arp core breach of your budy. And that destabilized T'Varo torpedo. When I fire it while cloaked, I have to get the hell out of the blast zone.
I think all of these suggestions and conjecture are pointless.
Cryptic wants your money. And to get it they will happily invalidate 4 years worth of zen spending and grinding, so that you have to do it all over again. Because that is the cheapest method to do it, since expanding and re-balancing the existing content apparently costs more then they are willing or able to spend.
And yes, it will cost them their older player base, but they do not care, as new people who haven't been burned by this change will step in to take our places.
Just by its inclusion in the data files, the existence of those items mean that within the year you will have to make the choice of replacing all of your gear or leaving the game.
It is going to happen. Now its up to you to decide what you do with that information.
You are an example of how some people 'think'. Friendly fire is not common in MMO, so not standard mechanic, not wanted. Levels is standard game mechanic, every game has it, so wanted. You want all the games be the same, look the same and play the same.
Besides, we have some friendly fire in this game. Ever been close to w arp core breach of your budy. And that destabilized T'Varo torpedo. When I fire it while cloaked, I have to get the hell out of the blast zone.
*yawn* troll harder next time.
Friendly fire in the way that was being talked about is stupid in any mmo. name ONE MMORPG where that actually worked, oh, wait, you cannot, because it completely invalidates certain types of builds.
and you are right, i do not consider any game that has no form of "leveling" an RPG.
Friendly fire in the way that was being talked about is stupid in any mmo. name ONE MMORPG where that actually worked, oh, wait, you cannot, because it completely invalidates certain types of builds.
and you are right, i do not consider any game that has no form of "leveling" an RPG.
It's called an RPG for a reason. It's a Role Playing Game, not an LPG ("Level Progression Game"). There are plenty of examples of games that are not RPG's that have a leveling system. Your refusal to consider a game without a leveling system an RPG is lacking wisdom. A role playing game is a game where players take on the role of an imaginary character and participate in a narrative adventure. Saying that it's not a role playing game because they most commonly include a leveling system is like saying that a wallet isn't a wallet if it doesn't have a credit card.
Level systems are a tool that game designers use. They can be integrated into any genre of game and they don't define any of them. The primary purpose of such is to prevent the player from accessing parts of the game that would break the progression, making the game too easy or too hard to the point that it's no longer fun. They are used often in RPG's because they are easy to implement. It's a very old and basic mechanic in games. If you're a risk-adverse company looking to make a profit, a leveling system is a proven and cost effective way to build a game.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Of course they will, as will you if some stranger on a forum tells you to do something you think is not in your best interests.
You are not a special snowflake who knows what is absolutely right or wrong for everyone playing the game. You are just one grain of sand on the beach, no more important then any other grain of sand.
You do not want a Level Cap increase and I do. Which grain of sand should Cryptic listen to?
HEAR, HEAR!!!!
Another grain of salt in favor of a level cap increase here.
and you are right, i do not consider any game that has no form of "leveling" an RPG.
I played lots of RPGs that had no leveling system or even character classes. Examples? GURPS. CP2020.
Oh right, now you will say those do not count as examples because they are not computer games. But they are still games in which you assume a role and participate in a story. Which RPGs are all about.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
there are many games that have RPG ELEMENTS, but they are not RPGs, not really.
The Secret World is an MMO that has no levels just Quality Levels for equipment, skill points, and ability points which means that one character could get every single ability in the game, but limited to 9 abilities at a time. Although, it is too late for STO to go this method since it has been out for 4 years. It is a decision that MMO companies have to make preferably before Alpha starts and before launch at the latest.
Shadowrun Returns, though it isn't an MMO. No leveling. Skill-based progression.
If you need more leveling in STO to give a semblance of "progression", delete your main and start a new one. Plenty of room for leveling now.
And how does that help? It is like amputating the arm because the leg is infected. People that want more leveling want their character to be stronger not restarting from the beginning. Unfortunately skill points require levels which is the only progression missing from the Reputation system. If people want to just gain more levels, then they can just start a new alt instead of deleting their main.
Comments
How is it a terrible plan? Saying this sucks is a completely pointless post while this sucks because of .... makes for a decent post.
Because that would turn this game in to ST: Legacy, and that game was terrible.
So trying to make our rank of Vice Admiral or Admiral actually make sense would make the game into a completely different game? Without seeing the system in action, then there is no way to compare it to another Star Trek game.
My opinion is that the level cap increase wont raise your rank from Vice Admiral but instead allow you to branch off into specific career paths... kinda like the legacy tree in SWTOR.
Yeah and so will everyone else's gear, all it means is that that you'll start at square one with the rest of us.
I have no issues with Cryptic raising the level cap from 50 - 60 and if by doing so the equipment that I have becomes out dated, I'll replace it when and where I can.
I do not understand that fear of change that some players display.
This is an MMO and MMO's are supposed to be ever changing and that sometimes includes our Characters and the Equipment that they use.
It's like asking Sony to stop making newer Televisions or Home entertainment systems because you already have the latest hotness and do not want to have to go out and get the next.
If there is to a level cap increase, I welcome it and all that it entails.
Mk XIV... that's exactly what it means. All your current mk XII elite fleet gear will become obsolete. Plus the new mk XIV super elite fleet gear will be even more expensive. I estimate that it will cost like 1.5 times of current max level gear. And don't expect that you will be able to purchase this gear just like that. It's very much likely that fleets will have to level up their holdings to the next Tier first.
But that's only part of the matter. All your fleet ships will have to be upgraded by purchasing some super fleet module that will cost like 1000 zen. They might even come up with the idea to introduce a new Tier VI for your different reputations.
In summary a level cap increase means a MASSIVE ressource sink and once you've reached lvl 60 and have all your favorite gear you will end up where you started... dominating all enemies in the different fleet actions.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Assuming people in general want upgrades and new shinys, there are 2 choices:
1) level cap up -- levels the playing field (everyone starts over), new tougher content, a chance to make major overhauls and apply lessons learned over the last few years, etc.
2) keep adding level 50 gear that are upgrades and really level 75 gear, any new content is doable by 'average' 50s and very boring for geared players, and watch the fireworks as one person solos 5 man content. Widen the gap between new players and vets so new folks give up on pvp entirely, and are unable to even shoot in pve as nothing is alive long enough to even target it. Fun for all, right?
Don't believe me?
Take a level 50 character in their 9-console RA ship with Mk XI+XII V. Rare equipment (drops, mission items, etc.), compare them to a character Fleet-grade ship (IE: 10 consoles), stacked with the very best fleet gear (with occaisional choice bits of gear from the rep system, natch), completed rep grind passives, and max-quality DOffs (don't forget to buy your 6th DOff slot).
You're close, maybe at 10 levels of raw, statistical power over the poor, newly-minted level 50.
PS: Romulan Faction characters can add 3 to 10 additional levels depending on whether they have the Valdore console, and whether or not they've got a whole crew of Sup. Operative/Infiltrator BOffs.
Many players are already complaining about the Rep system and might leave if they have to start over again because their Mk XII stuff becomes obsolete.
Cryptic put too much faith in the reputation systems and grinding instead of adding new stuff. It took a lot of time for many players to reach mk XII so they would be insulted if suddenly mkXIII was on the market.
Introduce a wider variety of consoles and weapons instead with more Focus on different skills. Shields that reflect weapons fire or add energy to the weapons system to allow more or heavier salvos or whatever so you have more ways to build your ship and make it different from others just not by making everything that was introduced over the last years worthless.
It just has been too long since the last Mk increase and the system we have is working well. Maybe introduce new enemies with special abilities that challenge our builds but not another Mk
I dont know if there are other wepon types in Star trek. We could start with Anti-Borg Railguns or Lasers which would have about 100 DPS because they are old as hell.
It would be nice if they could update those weapons first so Lvl 50 Players can get Mk XII purple Retrofit phasers, Phaser Rifles, Jem Hadar sets, Breen sets ( not from the damn lobi store unless there are more ways to get lobi. I am not buying lockboxes) instead of those mk XI ones which are just Lvl 40 systems
So i need something to do lvl 60 sounds great to me as long as there add harder content to go with it. At the moment im just grinding for sets that i wont use or to give to my away team in my roms case.
Yes i am a bit of a hardcore elitest who loves puging just to belittle the fed players. That get shocked when im in my bop n kill cubes transformers gates faster then the rest of the team can do one tranformer.
I need something new to do simple this gane become to easy.
Ive ko cse kse n ise with two man teams n hse with a 3 man team.
Lvl 60 is the only way to go for players like me or we move on to other games with our money.
proton weapons are the next logical choice. Probably behave like transphasic, doing minor hull damage thru the shields? They have to be careful with this one, which may be why it is not out yet.
What do you think?
CM
Yes harder content is ok but no Mk XIII because otherwise you would be exactly where you are now. Top weapons but no worthy enemies. A Lecel Cap increase combined with more Missions (no rep. systems) to continue the Iconian storyline with very rare rewards would be OK.
And if you dont have much to work on play foundry missions. Many of them are very good and worth playing. But all the grinding is the reason players do nothing more than to run from one REp. System to the other and grind stuff they cant even use (and still want more of it and stronger Mk XIII) instead of playing the game.
The game and every game could be more challenging by making the AI more sophisticated. For instance you could have friendly fire, AoE damage does hit friend and foe because lets face it only hitting the foe with your AoE attacks is kids play.
What I don't understand. If you like to level, roll a new character. Then you can do it all again and have the feeling of making progress. I did it. I have lots of alts and I don't mind to do it again when new clases, races or a faction is rolled out, but not if the leveling path is long. Going from 20 to 30 differs not much from going from 30 to 40 which is more or less the same experience as going from 40 to 50. You are sure you want to go to 60?
friendly fire = stupid mechanic for RPGs and makes AOE useless in team play
and in what world does friendly fire = AI?
Our Battles
You are an example of how some people 'think'. Friendly fire is not common in MMO, so not standard mechanic, not wanted. Levels is standard game mechanic, every game has it, so wanted. You want all the games be the same, look the same and play the same.
Besides, we have some friendly fire in this game. Ever been close to w arp core breach of your budy. And that destabilized T'Varo torpedo. When I fire it while cloaked, I have to get the hell out of the blast zone.
Cryptic wants your money. And to get it they will happily invalidate 4 years worth of zen spending and grinding, so that you have to do it all over again. Because that is the cheapest method to do it, since expanding and re-balancing the existing content apparently costs more then they are willing or able to spend.
And yes, it will cost them their older player base, but they do not care, as new people who haven't been burned by this change will step in to take our places.
Just by its inclusion in the data files, the existence of those items mean that within the year you will have to make the choice of replacing all of your gear or leaving the game.
It is going to happen. Now its up to you to decide what you do with that information.
*yawn* troll harder next time.
Friendly fire in the way that was being talked about is stupid in any mmo. name ONE MMORPG where that actually worked, oh, wait, you cannot, because it completely invalidates certain types of builds.
and you are right, i do not consider any game that has no form of "leveling" an RPG.
It's called an RPG for a reason. It's a Role Playing Game, not an LPG ("Level Progression Game"). There are plenty of examples of games that are not RPG's that have a leveling system. Your refusal to consider a game without a leveling system an RPG is lacking wisdom. A role playing game is a game where players take on the role of an imaginary character and participate in a narrative adventure. Saying that it's not a role playing game because they most commonly include a leveling system is like saying that a wallet isn't a wallet if it doesn't have a credit card.
Level systems are a tool that game designers use. They can be integrated into any genre of game and they don't define any of them. The primary purpose of such is to prevent the player from accessing parts of the game that would break the progression, making the game too easy or too hard to the point that it's no longer fun. They are used often in RPG's because they are easy to implement. It's a very old and basic mechanic in games. If you're a risk-adverse company looking to make a profit, a leveling system is a proven and cost effective way to build a game.
there are many games that have RPG ELEMENTS, but they are not RPGs, not really.
HEAR, HEAR!!!!
Another grain of salt in favor of a level cap increase here.
I played lots of RPGs that had no leveling system or even character classes. Examples? GURPS. CP2020.
Oh right, now you will say those do not count as examples because they are not computer games. But they are still games in which you assume a role and participate in a story. Which RPGs are all about.
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
The Secret World is an MMO that has no levels just Quality Levels for equipment, skill points, and ability points which means that one character could get every single ability in the game, but limited to 9 abilities at a time. Although, it is too late for STO to go this method since it has been out for 4 years. It is a decision that MMO companies have to make preferably before Alpha starts and before launch at the latest.
If you need more leveling in STO to give a semblance of "progression", delete your main and start a new one. Plenty of room for leveling now.
And how does that help? It is like amputating the arm because the leg is infected. People that want more leveling want their character to be stronger not restarting from the beginning. Unfortunately skill points require levels which is the only progression missing from the Reputation system. If people want to just gain more levels, then they can just start a new alt instead of deleting their main.