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Forums > Home› The Academy

DEM without Marion worthwhile?

ovinspaceovinspace Member Posts: 310
edited March 2014 in The Academy
Say it does 50 per hit, and 8 beam cruiser wouldn't get much more than 350dps extra, even to an opponent with a small hull you'd need 10 seconds to do 10% of their hull. Does it need cannon or turrets to become non-trivial?
Post edited by ovinspace on

Comments

  • quickdraw74quickdraw74 Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Mix it with FAW and it becomes important with or without Marion. I can tell it makes some difference in the build I am running.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The extra damage is mostly meant to help knock down a shield facing quicker, so if I am factoring this correctly based on your example of +50 per hit x 8 BA's at 4 pulses + 1sec recovery (or 5sec per volley) over the course of 30sec. granting a total of 6 possible volleys.

    Each volley=50*8*4=1600*6=9600 extra damage over the course of 30sec.

    Again my math my be off, but this is how I understand it. :confused:
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • ovinspaceovinspace Member Posts: 310
    edited March 2014
    The damage bypasses the shield, for a base damage of: 28. 37 or 47 per pulse for 30 sec, which is effected by four things
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Directed_Energy_Modulation

    If FAW gives say 25% extra for 10 seconds then that helps a little, even 40% of a third of 10K is not much as dps once averaged out over a minute.

    Of people that are doing 20k+ damage the important aspect of dem has to be the power boost from the doff.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ovinspace wrote: »
    The damage bypasses the shield, for a base damage of: 28. 37 or 47 per pulse for 30 sec, which is effected by four things
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Directed_Energy_Modulation

    If FAW gives say 25% extra for 10 seconds then that helps a little, even 40% of a third of 10K is not much as dps once averaged out over a minute.

    Of people that are doing 20k+ damage the important aspect of dem has to be the power boost from the doff.

    No it doesn't bypass shields, it helps aid in damaging shields as the name can seem confusing, but shield penetrating damage is the same term they gave for the new destabilizing tetryons.

    It doesn't say it in the weapons main description, but in the tool bar or the weapons actual info I am pretty sure it made use of the same term.

    But either way shield penetrating damage, is primarily meant to aid in defeating a shield array's health quicker, but with such a crumby description I would assume it also applies to the hull once a shield facing is down, and than throw in marion for better wp mitigation so the damage output is even better per pulse.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    shadowwraith77 wrote: »
    No it doesn't bypass shields, it helps aid in damaging shields as the name can seem confusing, but shield penetrating damage is the same term they gave for the new destabilizing tetryons.

    It doesn't say it in the weapons main description, but in the tool bar or the weapons actual info I am pretty sure it made use of the same term.

    But either way shield penetrating damage, is primarily meant to aid in defeating a shield array's health quicker, but with such a crumby description I would assume it also applies to the hull once a shield facing is down, and than throw in marion for better wp mitigation so the damage output is even better per pulse.

    It does bypass shields, as can be easily confirmed by combat logs.

    Directed Energy Modulation III (from a random ISE):
    1,887 attacks
    248 criticals
    196.68 Hull Damage per Hit
    0.0 Shield Damage per Hit



    The procs you're talking about are a different effect.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    lagunad wrote: »
    It does bypass shields, as can be easily confirmed by combat logs.

    Directed Energy Modulation III (from a random ISE):
    1,887 attacks
    248 criticals
    196.68 Hull Damage per Hit
    0.0 Shield Damage per Hit



    The procs you're talking about are a different effect.

    Well like I said they use the same term for the destabilizing tetryons in one of the tool tips, so I am basing it off of that, and besides when I use the skill of DEM why is it I see quicker shield facing depletion against enemies vs not using it? :confused:
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Have now looked through half a dozen ISE logs of people using DEM. It never hits shields.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    lagunad wrote: »
    Have now looked through half a dozen ISE logs of people using DEM. It never hits shields.

    I don't put to much faith in the parser logs, considering for awhile it kept indicating a 100% ACC even though you did miss at times. AKA combatlogreader!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • jack24bau3rjack24bau3r Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    dem only deals hull damage, no matter what some people might like to think or what they think they notice.

    dem also can parse at 4k in a high dps ise.

    considering that your 4k dem could just be higher dps than an entire pug match combined, yeah i'd say its worth it.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Its also handy against heavily shielded targets, like the current Mirror Event where the cruisers run EPTS and the frigates toss Extends on everything and make the fights take longer.
  • vocmcpvocmcp Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It used to be bugged for Rommies giving them up to 200 shield bypass per pulse. They stealth nerfed that one so it's back to normal.
    http://srs-fleet.net
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    shadowwraith77 wrote: »
    I don't put to much faith in the parser logs, considering for awhile it kept indicating a 100% ACC even though you did miss at times. AKA combatlogreader!

    ok, but in the real world people go with empiric evidence...not what one person believes. But if DEM hitting shields is your religion, that you have unshakeable faith in, so be it.
    The rest of us stick to the facts...kkthxbb


    and yeah it is mostly worthless without the doff. i still prefer it over EWP, aceton beam, boarding party as an offensive commander engi ability, but that is because the other ones suck even more.
    Go pro or go home
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    But with the Borg weapon 2-piece and fleet cores? Is it really still that much of a big deal? Between overcapping and weapon drain reduction the effect has become much reduced, imo. I really do think that doff slot can be used more effectively... Cleanse doff, RSP doff, etc?
  • ijimithyijimithy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Works fine on both my buillds with FAW and DEM. My Schimi is on the Klingon side and as Marion is quite expensive over there I didn't want to drop 80-100Mill EC on him, but I can parse quite high in an ISE with my Schimi (around 24K DPS in a standard pug around 30-35 if in a dedicated group). My Jem Dreadnought has Marion and can get 20K DPS in a pug but it doesn't have the 5th weapon slot up front or the extra werapon slot so its still extrememly efficent at liberating the enemy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    No Drama, No Fuss, Just good old fashioned pew pew!
  • ovinspaceovinspace Member Posts: 310
    edited March 2014
    I wondered if EPW simply adds more with 10%, 13.3% or 16.6% extra energy weapon damage plus max weapon power not being dropped. And there is an affordable doff for eptx recharge.

    Can anyone confirm the dem users can approach 200 per hit, my tooltip is showing about 45 with max weapon power, would I need to respec the energy weapon abilities to max?
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    lagunad wrote: »
    It does bypass shields, .

    Yeah, that's kinda the point of using DEM. :D
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