Why do some people refuse to fight cubes in stfs? I saw it 3 times already this morning. Some people don't attack the first cube, only go after the generators, then attack from way far away on the last cube in ISE. They do similar things in KASE.
It's just a pain being only 1 of 2 people attacking the cube then having to rush to throw out a GW, TR, or WP to stop the spheres, the rushing back to kill the cube.
It's not like the cubes over the transformers are hard. They don't even shoot the super-mega-invisible-torpedo-of-instadeath.
People are scared of being blown up. There are a whole ton of people in this game that either don't know how to build a DPS capable build (Rainbow boat and skittle boat people, that's you) or people who simply refuse to listen to sound advice. When people cannot throw DPS out, they cant take down those cubes on their own, and frankly, they inevitably get themselves killed. If someone cant have enough dps to take down a cube, they'll just ignore them and run away. The super-mega-invisible-torpedo-of-instadeath is shot in retaliation to a torpedo spread, bt dubs. People just don't know how to set up ships properly. That's the point there, and many times, they have absolutely no idea how to play these STF's
TheGrateLordeCheesus Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM Doesn't Owe AnyoneEC Kirks Prot
I think it's a case of people get burned by being 'stuck' with having to deal with elite cubes by themselves, so they try to avoid them. Elite cubes are also something that can chew up sub-par builds, so people with said builds naturally fear and avoid them.
Personally, I know I have a support Corsair that doesn't have the raw damage to go toe-toe with one and take it out in good time, but then, I don't really run those queues with the ship in the first place. My Bortas, Plasma Vesta or Quantum Chel Grett, on the other hand, I have and will take on an entire side of KASE by myself if needed(lane included)..
Its not that hard to set up a build that can take one on. Granted, I'm running a Fleet heavy build. Fleet weapons, shields, heck, the ship itself is fleet. http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=fleetavengerapbuildgibbs_4854
Itll either be the AP build or fleet Andorian Phaser weapons. It'll melt a cube in a matter of seconds. I've yet to try my bugship against one, but I believe she will hold together.
The fleet stuff isn't necessary, youll easily break 5k dps with Mk X rare weapons.
People are chumps. Fortune favors the bold. I plunge head first into swarms of borg spheres or a big elite tactical cube in elite conduit because I know how to deal with them. Sometimes I wonder if people running "tank" ships find it at all emasculating that not only are they unable to rip threat off of me, but I'm doing their job and surviving while pushing a purely dps focused build simultaneously.
Oh certainly, anybody can set up a facerolling Aux2bat BFAW build; but that doesn't mean everyone will or wants to. I think it's part of the charm of PUG STFs, but I certainly feel for what the OP is talking about. It sucks to be the one who gets stuck with Cube-duty - especially if you're busy with lanes or something else when a cube comes at you for great, big space-huggles.
I see where you're coming from. I know that anybody can set that build up, but with that build comes the chance of aggroing something that they don't want, I.e. a cube. If they can't handle that, they're screwed. So yes, anyone can set it up, but not everyone can use it an A2B FAW build.
TheGrateLordeCheesus Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM Doesn't Owe AnyoneEC Kirks Prot
Oh certainly, anybody can set up a facerolling Aux2bat BFAW build; but that doesn't mean everyone will or wants to. I think it's part of the charm of PUG STFs, but I certainly feel for what the OP is talking about. It sucks to be the one who gets stuck with Cube-duty - especially if you're busy with lanes or something else when a cube comes at you for great, big space-huggles.
I swear by aux2bat now because it's so much power. But the elite tactical cube was still tankable for me in my Sovereign and scim (the scim especially for the valdore console), I just had lower dps doing it. Still far and away more dps than tank builds however. All it takes is better than green loot and an intelligent build.
The heck are you talking about? I've NEVER seen this happen. I mostly see everyone attack the tactical cube, and if they're being beat on they use evasive maneuvers to retreat, heal up, and attack again. I toss out heals and buffs to help others and keep them in the fight. I've never seen anyone chicken out.
The only time I've ever seen a person NOT attack a cube is a lousy AFKer.
The heck are you talking about? I've NEVER seen this happen. I mostly see everyone attack the tactical cube, and if they're being beat on they use evasive maneuvers to retreat, heal up, and attack again. I toss out heals and buffs to help others and keep them in the fight. I've never seen anyone chicken out.
The only time I've ever seen a person NOT attack a cube is a lousy AFKer.
Well, just because you've never seen it isn't grounds for it to not happen...just saying...
It happens in pugs sometimes. It doesn't happen all the time, just sometimes. This isn't a rant post. It's a "I have no idea why someone would do that let alone 3 in one pug" post.
I guess my thing is, every ship in the game is capable of doing enough DPS to complete everthing. One doesn't even need a2b or nice doffs or purple mk xii weapons or OP ships. If that was the case people wouldn't be able to do ISE in t2 connies.
It's just been an observation that I still can't explain.
Why do some people refuse to fight cubes in stfs? I saw it 3 times already this morning. Some people don't attack the first cube, only go after the generators, then attack from way far away on the last cube in ISE. They do similar things in KASE.
It's just a pain being only 1 of 2 people attacking the cube then having to rush to throw out a GW, TR, or WP to stop the spheres, the rushing back to kill the cube.
It's not like the cubes over the transformers are hard. They don't even shoot the super-mega-invisible-torpedo-of-instadeath.
What's the deal?
There are a couple of issues that cause people to do this in ISE (outside of trolling the team).
First is that the majority of the people I have seen doing this have come from doing Conduit on normal. On normal difficulty this tactic is acceptable, since there are no cubes guarding the generators/transformers, just a sphere, and can be ignored. This is an issue where a simple explanation to the person in question can fix the problem (if they are watching team/zone chat). It's what they know, so they stick with it until someone tells them otherwise, or they figure out on their own that fighting a cube and spheres is less than optimal (which never happens).
The second is that some of these individuals have VERY low damage output... as in 'probes laugh at me as they pass me by' low. Many of the times I have seen these guys, the cube will be dead before this is an issue. I have an idea that they start on the generators early either to mask the fact they have low damage (which never works), or that they think that getting a head start on the generator will help toward getting generators down as quick as possible.The only problem these individuals pose for the team is that they take up useful space, and are carried by the rest of the team, which isn't an issue unless you have an entire team of these guys. If you have excellent damage output this isn't an issue either, as long as they help you out with healing you (since you will be the focus of attention), and hopefully keeping spheres caught in a gravity well.
In either case these people are not deal breakers, optionals can still be completed if the team compensates for them (raw dps works real well for this :P).
It would be nice though if someone has who has really low damage output mentions it before hand. I don't mind carrying people through stuff as long as they at least make an effort.
Cubes? What cubes? I see only wreckage that blocks my viewscreen.
But all sarcasm aside, taking out a cube is not really that hard. Hell, I can do it in a ship decked out in pure mk IX white gear. A lot of these players probably just don't have the experience/know-how to do it.
That's actually considered one of the primary benchmarks in ESTF play. You know your character and ship are doing well and you're doing it right when you finally are able to solo a cube in KASE. After that, you just need to work on how fast you can do it.
The majority of my toons can take down a Cube in 10 seconds or less. I don't expect everyone to be able to do that, and I am not horribly surprised if someone gets nova'd trying. HOWEVER, more often than not, it's usually as a result of the Gateway interfering or the person accidentally TRIBBLE up something. But there are certain players I expect to be able to solo a cube and give no craps.
And when I pug? I expect nothing, and am therefore never disappointed. If someone wants to ignore a cube? Fine, whatever, another kill for me. If they want to die to a cube? Fine whatever, a warp core breach to do some damage to the cube/make another pretty explosion. And if they want to BMW about a cube being too strong? Fine, whatever, a good laugh for me, and someone to teach how to do it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
i would be happy if cubes "imprinted" on whoever destroyed the last generator before they're summoned, and chased them, repeatedly(or in the case of ISE prioritized whoever is attacking the generators), this would likely force people to prefer fighting the probes and let those who can actually pull the DPS fight the cubes and gate in KASE, and force folks to shoot the cube in ISE.
i don't get why cubes sometimes just sit there, or chase someone else on the other side of the map in KASE.
once i did KASE, and literally every cube decided to come after me for some reason, i had to fight all 4, one teammate who was busy the gate from both sides even joked that i should get the other folks rewards since i did nearly all the job.
I actually never seen people simply avoid attacking Tac Cubes in Conduit Infected Elite or Khitomer Vortex Elite. The exception is if there is already enough people attacking the Cube, then adding in more firepower to bring down the Cube 5 seconds quicker doesn't make much of difference.
If I get to a Cube late and everyone else is already firing at, then I simply go for the generators. I have seen other ships do this as well. But to completely avoid the Cube? No. I try to play both of those missions twice per day which means I play those two missions 20 - 24 times per week combined.
especially if you're busy with lanes or something else when a cube comes at you for great, big space-huggles.
In my Charal I don't like to be first in on a cube, but that's just out of habit from past experiences levelling up in escorts with that guy. It's like classical conditioning has its grip on me.
On the other hand, in my other ships, like my assault cruiser, I purposely seek out those space huggles!
Cubes are so huggy sometimes!
I know in stomring the spire, my Assault Cruiser is the first to jump at the capital ship in the last phase. I love that big ship. And apparently it loves me.
i have no problems going up against suicidal odds if i know i have a chance, even if its a small one. i tend to go after something like that, the RATM sort of way :P. always been a rebel against authority in real life, tend not to pay attention when i know im only gonna get burned slightly and i can brush that off, a fair trade off, so crazy is not too far outside my realm of possibilities. sometimes its even fun being in the middle of such a fight amazing yourself that you can do it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I PuG'd KASE the other day, and apparently it was my turn, because my Scimi got hit 7 times by the Borg Stealthed Super Torp. (TM) ... My fault for PuG'ing I know, but I just figured I was the only one doing any real DPS, so I got hit.
I've never noticed any players ignoring the cubes, sometimes in ISE players will ignore the two Sphere's in order to get a head start on the generators, or they stupidly try and solo a side and have Nanite Spheres spawning so you lose the optional.
But that's what you get for PuG'ing ... IF i do a Fleet run, it's finished in about 4 mins or less, so it's not an issue, as everyone knows what they are doing, even if someone is "testing" a build and doesn't have as much DPS as everyone else, the sheer amount of damage output these days is so ridiculously high, it doesn't even matter.
I've played allot of these missions in pug form on for the most part people know how to do them by now.
Occasionally you will come across a nighmare pug that goes on for ages and nobody has a clue.
Its just the law of averages, mostly these days these missions go well for me.
That said it was only yesterday the wife told me to shush shouting at the screen in just such a scenario lol!
There are elite stf channels however where you can hook up with the monstar builds and power through in next to no time.
I personally prefer fleet or pug runs, one for social the other for variety and suprises.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
I believe if they turned back the clock to pre-rep system all these people that think they know what they are doing would fail them all. these things used to take team work and tactics to complete now its just a dps faw fest.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
If you have reg-o XI'Is blue/purp shields, and no set/rep gear stacked, elite cubes will tear through you in no time. It's better to stay on the fringe and not draw all the aggro.
If you play your skills well, have decent keybinds, and some min/maxing setup, you can mitigate that. But not everyone does, and they can still 1 shot you no problem, whenever they feel like it.
Once you get some Rep/Fleet/Set gear, then you can sit there and tank what they throw at you, at least until the old STFs get some needed buffs.
most of the time I have noticed these timid pugs will attack the cube if you get to it nd claim agro on it so they dont get shot at
If you nnounce in local chat hey troopers i hve agro on the cube lets blow it up
They will be more likely to add there .....firepower........ to yours
bad thing those same timid players will streak to the other side to shoot the generators out of the cubes reach costing you the opp
usually if a pug leaves the sphere's on the right to pop the gens on the left you cant recover before the nanite spheres get to the transformer
and use local chat most pugs turn off team chat :P
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
Kirks Prot
Personally, I know I have a support Corsair that doesn't have the raw damage to go toe-toe with one and take it out in good time, but then, I don't really run those queues with the ship in the first place. My Bortas, Plasma Vesta or Quantum Chel Grett, on the other hand, I have and will take on an entire side of KASE by myself if needed(lane included)..
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=fleetavengerapbuildgibbs_4854
Itll either be the AP build or fleet Andorian Phaser weapons. It'll melt a cube in a matter of seconds. I've yet to try my bugship against one, but I believe she will hold together.
The fleet stuff isn't necessary, youll easily break 5k dps with Mk X rare weapons.
Oh, and Jem'Hadar attack ship http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=gibbsjemattack_4854
Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
Kirks Prot
Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
Kirks Prot
I swear by aux2bat now because it's so much power. But the elite tactical cube was still tankable for me in my Sovereign and scim (the scim especially for the valdore console), I just had lower dps doing it. Still far and away more dps than tank builds however. All it takes is better than green loot and an intelligent build.
The only time I've ever seen a person NOT attack a cube is a lousy AFKer.
As such, especially in KASE, I will only specifically target the cube after the generators and transformer are down if AOE hasn't killed them already.
A cube on its own is not a threat.
Well, just because you've never seen it isn't grounds for it to not happen...just saying...
It happens in pugs sometimes. It doesn't happen all the time, just sometimes. This isn't a rant post. It's a "I have no idea why someone would do that let alone 3 in one pug" post.
I guess my thing is, every ship in the game is capable of doing enough DPS to complete everthing. One doesn't even need a2b or nice doffs or purple mk xii weapons or OP ships. If that was the case people wouldn't be able to do ISE in t2 connies.
It's just been an observation that I still can't explain.
Our Battles
There are a couple of issues that cause people to do this in ISE (outside of trolling the team).
First is that the majority of the people I have seen doing this have come from doing Conduit on normal. On normal difficulty this tactic is acceptable, since there are no cubes guarding the generators/transformers, just a sphere, and can be ignored. This is an issue where a simple explanation to the person in question can fix the problem (if they are watching team/zone chat). It's what they know, so they stick with it until someone tells them otherwise, or they figure out on their own that fighting a cube and spheres is less than optimal (which never happens).
The second is that some of these individuals have VERY low damage output... as in 'probes laugh at me as they pass me by' low. Many of the times I have seen these guys, the cube will be dead before this is an issue. I have an idea that they start on the generators early either to mask the fact they have low damage (which never works), or that they think that getting a head start on the generator will help toward getting generators down as quick as possible.The only problem these individuals pose for the team is that they take up useful space, and are carried by the rest of the team, which isn't an issue unless you have an entire team of these guys. If you have excellent damage output this isn't an issue either, as long as they help you out with healing you (since you will be the focus of attention), and hopefully keeping spheres caught in a gravity well.
In either case these people are not deal breakers, optionals can still be completed if the team compensates for them (raw dps works real well for this :P).
It would be nice though if someone has who has really low damage output mentions it before hand. I don't mind carrying people through stuff as long as they at least make an effort.
But all sarcasm aside, taking out a cube is not really that hard. Hell, I can do it in a ship decked out in pure mk IX white gear. A lot of these players probably just don't have the experience/know-how to do it.
That's actually considered one of the primary benchmarks in ESTF play. You know your character and ship are doing well and you're doing it right when you finally are able to solo a cube in KASE. After that, you just need to work on how fast you can do it.
The majority of my toons can take down a Cube in 10 seconds or less. I don't expect everyone to be able to do that, and I am not horribly surprised if someone gets nova'd trying. HOWEVER, more often than not, it's usually as a result of the Gateway interfering or the person accidentally TRIBBLE up something. But there are certain players I expect to be able to solo a cube and give no craps.
And when I pug? I expect nothing, and am therefore never disappointed. If someone wants to ignore a cube? Fine, whatever, another kill for me. If they want to die to a cube? Fine whatever, a warp core breach to do some damage to the cube/make another pretty explosion. And if they want to BMW about a cube being too strong? Fine, whatever, a good laugh for me, and someone to teach how to do it.
i don't get why cubes sometimes just sit there, or chase someone else on the other side of the map in KASE.
once i did KASE, and literally every cube decided to come after me for some reason, i had to fight all 4, one teammate who was busy the gate from both sides even joked that i should get the other folks rewards since i did nearly all the job.
If I get to a Cube late and everyone else is already firing at, then I simply go for the generators. I have seen other ships do this as well. But to completely avoid the Cube? No. I try to play both of those missions twice per day which means I play those two missions 20 - 24 times per week combined.
In my Charal I don't like to be first in on a cube, but that's just out of habit from past experiences levelling up in escorts with that guy. It's like classical conditioning has its grip on me.
On the other hand, in my other ships, like my assault cruiser, I purposely seek out those space huggles!
Cubes are so huggy sometimes!
I know in stomring the spire, my Assault Cruiser is the first to jump at the capital ship in the last phase. I love that big ship. And apparently it loves me.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I've never noticed any players ignoring the cubes, sometimes in ISE players will ignore the two Sphere's in order to get a head start on the generators, or they stupidly try and solo a side and have Nanite Spheres spawning so you lose the optional.
But that's what you get for PuG'ing ... IF i do a Fleet run, it's finished in about 4 mins or less, so it's not an issue, as everyone knows what they are doing, even if someone is "testing" a build and doesn't have as much DPS as everyone else, the sheer amount of damage output these days is so ridiculously high, it doesn't even matter.
The worst thing is when people start firing torpedo spread and scatter volley everywhere.. wtf. :mad:
Occasionally you will come across a nighmare pug that goes on for ages and nobody has a clue.
Its just the law of averages, mostly these days these missions go well for me.
That said it was only yesterday the wife told me to shush shouting at the screen in just such a scenario lol!
There are elite stf channels however where you can hook up with the monstar builds and power through in next to no time.
I personally prefer fleet or pug runs, one for social the other for variety and suprises.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
I love it. Visually it leads to some pretty amazing onscreen entertainment.
In Red Alerts, I deliberately go for the twin-cubes instead of the cube + creep. The latter does take a lot longer to clean, IMO.
If you have reg-o XI'Is blue/purp shields, and no set/rep gear stacked, elite cubes will tear through you in no time. It's better to stay on the fringe and not draw all the aggro.
If you play your skills well, have decent keybinds, and some min/maxing setup, you can mitigate that. But not everyone does, and they can still 1 shot you no problem, whenever they feel like it.
Once you get some Rep/Fleet/Set gear, then you can sit there and tank what they throw at you, at least until the old STFs get some needed buffs.
If you nnounce in local chat hey troopers i hve agro on the cube lets blow it up
They will be more likely to add there .....firepower........ to yours
bad thing those same timid players will streak to the other side to shoot the generators out of the cubes reach costing you the opp
usually if a pug leaves the sphere's on the right to pop the gens on the left you cant recover before the nanite spheres get to the transformer
and use local chat most pugs turn off team chat :P
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse