Ordinarily I dont really have much to say about things that happen in game. Is STO perfect? No, it has much to improve on but Im willing to accept that its a work in progress, get comfy in my seat and enjoy the ride getting to where were going. Thats fine. Now the big consensus is PVP is often overlooked in this game and I tend to agree, we just had our big four year anniversary and in all that time PVP has not been counted among those improvements. We still have the same maps we had at launch, very little has been added but for ground PVP which next to no one does, and there have even been rumblings in the last couple of years that PVP was on the chopping block and needed saving. I wont lie, the instant this game loses PVP as a mechanic it loses me as a patron, all the grind I do, all the times I play the content is for no other purpose then to acquire a mass of gear and build PVP ship builds with the multitudes of ships Ive ground out, won and bought. This game holds virtually no appeal to me outside of creating and perfecting stronger PVP builds. As a KDF primary Ive PVPd from the beginning because back then thats all there was to do. Have they added KDF content and fleshed out the faction? I believe so. Even still, no appeal for me outside of playing it through once to say I did.
But enough about all of that, this isnt a save PVP or lose my business!! thread. This is intended to address what i believe to be a serious problem in PVP. Now I understand the whole premise of STO is you are the captain! and as a result we all like to fancy ourselves the universes saviors and all that hot garbage but after fighting the Borg collective and winning then going into PVP and getting your fact melted, that very likely stings the pride. I know, Im not immune. There have been some matches where Ive been frustrated, others Ive been downright angry. However what really needs to happen to help PVP along is Cryptic really needs to have a look at the system and address the issue of people rage quitting/leaving a match. Four years of doing PVP and Ive seen it all, double shields, all manner of exploits, I remember when the Romulan rep was first out you couldnt target anyone for more than a second because the sensor assault passive continually would jam your target just by keeping fire on them. And slowly but surely most of those were fixed.
Leavers hurt PVP and the game because there is no penalty. They pound their desk with their first, grit their teeth and just warp out and move along either to get into a more favorable match or go back to being galactic PVE saviors. The point is, they suffer no penalty for what they did and more importantly the people who remain in the match get screwed. Not just of having the match conclude, but of any rewards as well. Dailys are not counted, no experience is afforded, it essentially turns the whole match into a colossal waste of everyones time. So if any of the developers are reading this thread I implore you, please at the very minimum change the system to allow the people who stay in a PVP match to at least be declared victorious and their rightful rewards given to them. As for punishing the leavers, I know it sounds harsh and discriminating because lets face it, allot of them time its just people who play the game for the PVE content exploring another avenue to get dilithium. Thats fine honestly. The best punishment I could think of in order to not alienate the customer base of people who do that is simply barr them from the PVP ques for a few hours or something. If its just grinders trying to get rewards, no skin off their nose. If its people remotely into the PVP community, theyll have a couple of hours to think about what they did.
Until we have leaderboards and matchmaking I don't think its acceptable to have a leavers penalty.
There's a lot of trollmades out there and if your in a pug of noobs it just ain't worth the stress. Leave and hope you find a balanced game. You have to ask why their are leavers in the first place and it's not entirely the leavers that are the problem IMO.
If its people remotely into the PVP community, theyll have a couple of hours to think about what they did.
I'm all for that, once pre/pugmades and pugs get their own queues. Otherwise you're just trapping random players in an boring and utterly unfun fight against premades. Especially since some premades go to some absurd lengths to ensure none of them die.
One premade actually brought three Recluses and two Voth sci-ships to the queues. 30 minutes later they only had two kills (we of course had none). At which point all my team agreed to just warp out.
I like the idea, But would it affect people who have to relog or get disconnected due to lag, not that there is ever lag in pvp. just saying I would be madder if I got a penalty due to connection problems. personally I would rather see a vote to kick option 3 yes's you get the boot no penalty just a swift kick in the aft section.
I'm for this, but first they need to fix the queues. I've queued into a team with no apposing team several times, so we all had to leave. It would have sucked if we all got a 1 hr penalty.
Like others in this thread have commented on, the fault is not with the leavers it's with the lack of matchmaking. People play this game to have fun. Winning or losing a close, nail-biting match is heaps of fun. Losing 15-0 without even being able to take 50% of an enemy's shields is not fun.
I understand your frustration but condemning people who enjoy PUGing with penalties because their style of gameplay doesn't involve extreme min/maxing and split-second timing in unfair.
As I said, the leaver penalty bit...I could take or leave that. Personally I think it'd benefit the situation by having that kind of thing carry a consequence but by the same token I've been on the other side of running into premades and getting smashed so I get the grief/frustration element discussed.
On the real, I really just think that when the entirety of one team leaves for whatever reason the team that remains should be declared the winners of the match and the various rewards that come from winning the match, XP as well as counts towards the daily missions should be bestowed upon them. It's not our fault people are put into bad teams or simply use that as an excuse to mask the fact that they have subpar builds or minimal talent level so we shouldn't have to suffer having our time wasted just because some people can't be adult enough to accept an unfortunate situation and leave in a fit. A win's a win, whether it's a tough and hard fought 15-12 win, a 15-0 rofl stomp, or a 12-0 stomp that people had to leave to cry into their oatmeal about. That last one to me should count simply as a forfeit/surrender win.
A penalty for leaving is total bs imho. A penalty will only result in fewer and fewer people queuing in the first place.
What we really need is something that encourages players to stay in the match. Give us some fleetmarks/choice of marks + dil per match and see how PvP is getting populated again.
Also: get rid of FvF/KvK/FvK. Let's just have this: premade RvB and pug RvB.
Queuing up for PvP could even look like this:
PUG:
Hit the button -> join a lobby -> see all players and chat -> be able to accept the challange or wait for the next one
(Leavers will most likely be gone before the match even started)
Premade:
Be able to form named arena teams (even across fleets & factions) -> hit the join button -> get a random enemy team (but preferedly close to your teams rating) -> See and chat to your opponents -> hit the ready buttons -> fight -> have your ratings in- or decreased based on the result
(Leavers will most likely be gone before the match even started)
Also, attract players with even trivial stuff like unique arena titles and accolades.
Leaver penalty in PVP will encourage more teams of trolls to queue up. You will see teams intentionally using every cheesy thing possible together in order to try to make the other team quit. There will be nonstop TDF, AMS, subspace rupture, doffed sci spam, yellowstones, all used together by all 5 players to make the spam nonstop and unplayable.
Leaver penalty in PVP will encourage more teams of trolls to queue up. You will see teams intentionally using every cheesy thing possible together in order to try to make the other team quit. There will be nonstop TDF, AMS, subspace rupture, doffed sci spam, yellowstones, all used together by all 5 players to make the spam nonstop and unplayable.
Premades kind of already do. Nearly every premade/fleetmade I've seen has done something like this. I doubt it's going to be that much of a difference.
Premades kind of already do. Nearly every premade/fleetmade I've seen has done something like this. I doubt it's going to be that much of a difference.
Difference being you have to stay in the match and be trolled instead of finding another one. So even more incentive for teams to troll since they know you will likely stay anyway.
Leaver penalty + no matchmaking = fewer people playing
Being on a PUG team and getting annihilated by people who use slide rules to build their ships and then spend weeks training and then wear their team shirts when playing is not fun and I would leave without a second thought. If I got a leaver penalty then I'd log in with one of my 15 other toons. If you want to blame me then feel free to do so. The smart thing is blame the system that doesn't accommodate for this type of scenario.
Comments
There's a lot of trollmades out there and if your in a pug of noobs it just ain't worth the stress. Leave and hope you find a balanced game. You have to ask why their are leavers in the first place and it's not entirely the leavers that are the problem IMO.
I'm all for that, once pre/pugmades and pugs get their own queues. Otherwise you're just trapping random players in an boring and utterly unfun fight against premades. Especially since some premades go to some absurd lengths to ensure none of them die.
One premade actually brought three Recluses and two Voth sci-ships to the queues. 30 minutes later they only had two kills (we of course had none). At which point all my team agreed to just warp out.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
yeah some Guys do this.. thats bad.
Maybe a penalty is good for PvP.. maybe.
greetings
*** R.I.P. ***
I understand your frustration but condemning people who enjoy PUGing with penalties because their style of gameplay doesn't involve extreme min/maxing and split-second timing in unfair.
Lag Industries Executive - Fleet Project Management
PvP Boot Camp Coach
STO - Will PvP For Food - Official OPVP Channel <-Click Me
/channel_join OrganizedPvP
On the real, I really just think that when the entirety of one team leaves for whatever reason the team that remains should be declared the winners of the match and the various rewards that come from winning the match, XP as well as counts towards the daily missions should be bestowed upon them. It's not our fault people are put into bad teams or simply use that as an excuse to mask the fact that they have subpar builds or minimal talent level so we shouldn't have to suffer having our time wasted just because some people can't be adult enough to accept an unfortunate situation and leave in a fit. A win's a win, whether it's a tough and hard fought 15-12 win, a 15-0 rofl stomp, or a 12-0 stomp that people had to leave to cry into their oatmeal about. That last one to me should count simply as a forfeit/surrender win.
That being said, a leaver penalty as with STFs would make a lot of sense. My only concern is that people might afk and refuse to respawn instead.
What we really need is something that encourages players to stay in the match. Give us some fleetmarks/choice of marks + dil per match and see how PvP is getting populated again.
Also: get rid of FvF/KvK/FvK. Let's just have this: premade RvB and pug RvB.
Queuing up for PvP could even look like this:
PUG:
Hit the button -> join a lobby -> see all players and chat -> be able to accept the challange or wait for the next one
(Leavers will most likely be gone before the match even started)
Premade:
Be able to form named arena teams (even across fleets & factions) -> hit the join button -> get a random enemy team (but preferedly close to your teams rating) -> See and chat to your opponents -> hit the ready buttons -> fight -> have your ratings in- or decreased based on the result
(Leavers will most likely be gone before the match even started)
Also, attract players with even trivial stuff like unique arena titles and accolades.
Premades kind of already do. Nearly every premade/fleetmade I've seen has done something like this. I doubt it's going to be that much of a difference.
Difference being you have to stay in the match and be trolled instead of finding another one. So even more incentive for teams to troll since they know you will likely stay anyway.
Being on a PUG team and getting annihilated by people who use slide rules to build their ships and then spend weeks training and then wear their team shirts when playing is not fun and I would leave without a second thought. If I got a leaver penalty then I'd log in with one of my 15 other toons. If you want to blame me then feel free to do so. The smart thing is blame the system that doesn't accommodate for this type of scenario.