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Science Suggestions, anyone?

miri2miri2 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Klingon Discussion
I've been flying a Varanus support vessel for probably two years or so, and it's served me reasonably well. Sure, it's basically a slightly worse version of the Federation's DSSV, but it's an actual science vessel, and I didn't really see any great alternatives at the time.
And for its part, my Varanus has played its part as a perfectly functional (albeit toothless) little heal/drain boat.

The recent anniversary has had an unfortunate side-effect for me, though. The free Science Destroyer is a good ship which throws out some pretty decent damage.
Unfortunately, in my hands, it just turns into a MVAE with a cloaking device, and I've never really been too big on the escort play style.* But now I've been spoiled by flying a ship that isn't decidedly bottom-tier, so I'm looking around to see what I can use to replace my venerable Varanus.

TLDR, my query is this: what's available to a KDF captain who wants a good, solid science support vessel?* Or, alternatively, if any of you out there fly your own monitor lizards, what do you do to make it competitive with the Federation's superior science vessels?

Thanks in advance for all your advice!


---
* Or any good at it, if I'm going to be perfectly honest.
* Important restriction: I'm not in a fleet, so don't have access to fleet ships. I do have a pretty large stock of Zen squirreled away, and an unopened Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser which I could probably trade for some of the more common lockbox ships on the exchange.
(Y'know, in retrospect, I probably should have had my Tac/Cruiser captain be KDF, and my Sci/Sci captain be Federation. Hindsight, huh? :P)
“True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.”
-- Winston Churchill
Post edited by miri2 on

Comments

  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Well I'll be the first to say something, but you should probably wait and hear what a lot of others have to say before making a definite decision.

    The fact that you're not in a fleet makes it difficult of getting anything better than the current Varanus you have. I don't like the DSD as a science vessel as well, I find it lacking and strange (maybe playing the Vesta has spoiled me).
    The sad fact is - there are not many science options availible to the KDF. You have the Varanus, the DSD and.....yeah, that's about it. KDF players have been utilizing the B'rel in a science role, but since you mentioned you don't really like the fast zipping escort style, probably not the best for you.

    There is however another option - the Korath Temporal Science Vessel. It's Klingon in basic design and a really good science ship (you might want to check the Palisade if you don't particualry care about faction specific designs), actually the best availible to the KDF. They are lockbox ships, but if you don't intend to use the Tal'Shiar you can arrange some sort of trade. For example I also got a Tal'Shiar a while ago and traded it for a Krenn Temporal Destroyer.
    The lockbox science vessels usually go for more EC on the exchnage than the Tal'Shiar, but if you have EC you can sell it and fill the rest of the price for the science ship. Or you can always arrange some sort of a trade with players in-game, believe it or not - a fleetie of mine just traded a Temporal Science Ship for a JHAS. :eek:
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    For what it's worth, I've actually looked at the Tal Shiar Battlecruiser for use as a sci vessel - slot a commander sci and you get a traditional sci layout with sensor analysis, massive hull and shields, 8 weapons and cruiser commands. Slow turner, though.

    Alternatively, also a slow turner, the (mirror) Voquv - not bad at all as a sci platform; very sturdy and gets choice of pets. Quick turner'd be the B'rel, though it's rather squishy; does give you the option of popping sci skills from cloak. Then again, the Krenn and Korath temporal vessels are excellent options too - in your case probably the Korath, as the Krenn is more tac focused. A final suggestion, for now, would be the Kar'fi: battle carrier, medium turn, sci heavy with decent offensive capabilities and 2 hangar bays.
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited March 2014
    I love the B'rel. It isnt a science ship. Neither is it an escort. It is its own class. As a science ship, it is a bit limited. As an escort, i can often blow things up faster in my Qin raptor. If you didnt like Klingon Raider vessels while leveling up, then dont use the B'rel.

    The non-BoP sci ship that i use is the Vo'quv. Again, not pure sci. However, this was it before cat carriers... big slow sci-type ship with carrier pets. I hate being slow, but pets are awesome.

    Science seems to be about making an escort that can grav well. If all the science you want is GW1, there is also the mirror Negh'var.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    B'rel retro(sort-of), Vo'quv, mirror vo'quv, and the temporal ships is basically all the KDF really has in terms science ships other than the varanus.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Vo'Quv, just about the best sciencey support ship you could ask for, in any faction. LT and COM Sci boff seats, 4 Sci console slots, and all the fun that comes with getting to launch your own crowd of BoPs. Get some B'Rotlhs or splurge for some Qaw'Duns if you're feeling wealthy, and watch them chew up your targets.

    Just get the regular one, because the Fleet versions of KDF carriers have been having issues slotting elite pets and the Mirror Voq leans more towards Engineering.
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Depends on what you want to do.

    The karfi carrier is a very good sci & dps ship. With 2 hangar bays, a cmdr sci seat, 4 forward weapons, its the sci-destroyer repackaged into a carrier. And it can become immune to damage in a pinch.

    The VQ is more support, less dps carrier. Also quite good.

    I would also throw out a BOP. Specifically the Norgh BOP. The flexible officers allow you to become a healer/supporter or a high dps escort or a SCI ship or whatever else. You can build this ship to do just about anything except tank. It can actually tank somewhat but the harder elites just hit too hard for the shields and hull --- but you can certainly tank "trash" mobs with the right build.

    A couple of the battle cruisers might work as well, the kamarang for example.
  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Several sugestions, but I'm going to limit mine to Just Science ships.

    The Pure Science Ships.
    Varnus. (more then one version availible.. check the fleet version)
    Vo'Qov Carrier. (also Fleet version availible)
    Korath Temporal Sci Ship.
    Dyson Science Destroyer.

    Not a great deal to choose from for KDF.
    Big points to remember. Fleet Versions.. More hull HP, small increase in shields. and all fleet versions are 10 console ships. There are NO 10 console mirror ships. Bear in mind that 10th console with what ever goes in there could allow you to slot a Universal console, or if you can swing "Fleet" consoles.. there's a lot you can do.. Basicly you can pump a damage type but I believe +30% or more (thats +30 PERCENT, not +30 points, and remember currently TAC consoles that add to damage DO stack!) if its an extra SCI console you can significantly increase your damage over time from exotic types.. Now SCI consoles as rule do not stack, but you can get the same effect with a variety of console which will actuall benifit you in more areas... DO some reserch if you haven't all ready.. and look at science consoles availible through your fleet embasy, and vie Dyson rep etc. You've got some serious variety, especially if you want to get crazy sneaky and debuff targets resists to your damage dealing powers!

    The Fleet Varnus is excellent, and the Vo'Qov is excellent.. better then excellent if you can get a suite of "fleet" gear on it... and high end fleet pets. It's a sci capable ship with the ability to tank like nobodys biz.. which is a good thing because its got all the agility and nimbleness of a falling rock! The Korath on the other hand is an amazingly good ship even if it cannot cloak. Good hull, shields, 10 console slots.. as manuverable as any raptor. Cannot mount dual cannon. It's better then the Varnus IMO including the fleet version.

    And then there is the Dyson ships... Down side.. hull color! Other then that.. wow.. even the free version. And it can mount cannon, and it can cloak. Let me offer this on setting up the Dyson which is a hybrid. Out fit it FIRST as a science ship. Then fiddle with the weapons suite. You don't have to ever switch to "destroyer" mode. The ship is quite capable of pumping out the DPS with out ever unmasking those Proton dual heavy cannon. They're a bonus.. and treat em like one. Unmask in combat against a ship you know you can kill now.
    The art of the Dyson ship is knowing when to run away, reconfigure, and refresh. The reason to learn that art is you do not have the engineering capabilities of any of the other KDF science ships. You just don't. And you are going to be someones primary target in PvP because the escort types KNOW, that if you get warmed up and start popping the goodies they are gonna die ugly deaths. The big cruisers may have a issues with tanking the small fry and killing them at the same. In The Dyson DD.. Thats not an issue. You can kill them. And you can do it all on your own!

    And then of course there is the "Secondary" deflector which untill season 9 rolls out is a Dyson Science Destroyer exclusive. And it comes in 4 flavors... the 9 console free version and 3 different versions on the 10 console c-store ships. and having a LtC TAC BOFF is a pretty amazing goodie on the ship in SCI mode... you can choose to slot offensive.. or defensive TAC abilities.. all up to you. Something to keep in mind.

    If you are a Science captain any and all of these ships will seriously enhance your abilities. The Dyson should work quite nicely in SCI form for and SCI or ENG capatain.. and for TAC captains... it's umm.. well... best way to do describe it might get edited by the Forum moderator.. but it like great sex! What can I say, it is what it is...

    Hope it helps!
    "I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
  • miri2miri2 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Thanks for all your feedback, everyone! It was good to see of the options that I have been considering pop up, and even more-so to see ones that never would have occurred to me.

    Lots of support for the Vo'Quv, though, which is really cool. I had been worried by its atrocious handling, since one of the biggest problems my Varanus had was when my allies would run away from me when I was trying to heal them. But with as much support as it's getting here, it looks like I'd be a bit daft not to give it a try. (Well, probably the mirror one, since I can get that one for EC instead of Dilithium.)
    shpoks wrote: »
    There is however another option - the Korath Temporal Science Vessel. It's Klingon in basic design and a really good science ship (you might want to check the Palisade if you don't particualry care about faction specific designs), actually the best availible to the KDF.
    Y'know, I completely forgot about the Korath. I should check out whether any of those are still out there-- it's a pretty interesting-looking layout, actually...
    As for the Palisade, I'm actually pretty curious about how well it actually works. It looks like a very versatile support ship, but I've never actually seen another player flying one.*

    I love the B'rel. It isnt a science ship. Neither is it an escort. It is its own class. As a science ship, it is a bit limited. As an escort, i can often blow things up faster in my Qin raptor. If you didnt like Klingon Raider vessels while leveling up, then dont use the B'rel.
    Yeah, I leveled up in a bird-of-science... though I really couldn't wait to trade it out. I just wasn't able to overcome its extreme fragility. Really, in retrospect, I was probably using it all wrong.
    noroblad wrote: »
    A couple of the battle cruisers might work as well, the kamarang for example.
    This may be a little unfair, but my main reservation about the Kamarag is that my Federation character flies an Ambassador-class, which is a darned solid ship. It just might get a little close for comfort if I'm flying an Ambassador-equivalent with both of my characters is all. :P
    (Also, I just noticed that the mirror Negh'Var and the Kamarag have the same BOff seating. Weird.)


    Thanks again, everyone!


    ---
    * I don't have any huge objections to using non-faction-specific ships with this character, since anything that wasn't built in a Gorn Hegemony fleetyard is basically an "alien" ship to them anyway.
    “True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.”
    -- Winston Churchill
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I would have to say some of these Gorn ships sould be freed up with thier console removed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
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  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited March 2014
    miri2 wrote: »
    Yeah, I leveled up in a bird-of-science... though I really couldn't wait to trade it out. I just wasn't able to overcome its extreme fragility. Really, in retrospect, I was probably using it all wrong.

    The thing i would say about the B'rel is the enhanced battle cloak is a totally different game than prior BoPs. Yes, the Hegh'ta is more the Escort gunship for me. The B'rel is a scalpel.

    Really, though, all Sci captains need a Vo'quv.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    miri2 wrote: »
    As for the Palisade, I'm actually pretty curious about how well it actually works. It looks like a very versatile support ship, but I've never actually seen another player flying one.
    ---
    * I don't have any huge objections to using non-faction-specific ships with this character, since anything that wasn't built in a Gorn Hegemony fleetyard is basically an "alien" ship to them anyway.

    If you can get your hands on one, the Palisade or Orb Weaver would be the only other pure sci choices apart from fleet Varanus.
    The Recluse would be good too, can go very sci heavy on that one. Com, LtC, En, En, LtC

    Keeping to KDF faction ships only though, Vo'Quv is your best alternative.

    If you're prepared to loose a little sci to gain more tac or engy, the Karfi and Fleet Corsair refit are both worth a look too.
    AFMJGUR.jpg
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