I am perfectly fine with this change. It was frustrating as hell to have members of the fleet I'm in run off at the first opportunity of NWS farming, leaving the rest of us to run the content we actually like running while short team members. Maybe I'll actually get to run a few STFs without pugging for once.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
oh good, it will now take 20 times longer to get all the fleet gear i wanted.
your not supposed to pug no win. its not possible to get past 10 with a random pug, most likely not even to 9. there are several channels for forming teams to run it properly and get the most out of it. but no, now its all ruined.
oh good, it will now take 20 times longer to get all the fleet gear i wanted.
your not supposed to pug no win. its not possible to get past 10 with a random pug, most likely not even to 9. there are several channels for forming teams to run it properly and get the most out of it. but no, now its all ruined.
Its not about the problem created by people ditching pugs, I doubt it happens at all. The problem is the ridiculous amount of marks being accessible to only those of us who are able to beat or farm NWS. What that does is cause all the experienced players to vacate the fleet mark queues and leave those events taking longer to start and failing more since its all newbs. Then none of the newbs can't get fleet credits and small fleets that don't farm NWS can't get marks which they are all struggling for enough already. Considering how its easier to do NWS on KDF due to AA and how dead KDF queues are already, I think this hurt the KDF a lot too.
Now maybe they nerfed this too soon as I think they should have boosted marks you can gain elsewhere first, but this was an exploit that did need to go away. I was doing it too but don't mind having a reason to do stuff I don't do as much like defera and fleet defense.
Im just mainly glad to see they did it for fed fleet alert, so many times you could tell the farmers were in after leaving after a set amount of waves, i have no probs with the accolade hunters, but even i myself have been in need of just 2 final undine capital ships to complete the set for quite some time, but no matter what race comes in, i personally have always felt compelled that once I'm in, i see it through to the end regardless of what race comes for the few in the team who may need it, for i live by an old star trek saying,( the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one or the few ).. regardless of my own needs or wants... :cool:
so kudos cryptic
Its not about the problem created by people ditching pugs, I doubt it happens at all. The problem is the ridiculous amount of marks being accessible to only those of us who are able to beat or farm NWS. What that does is cause all the experienced players to vacate the fleet mark queues and leave those events taking longer to start and failing more since its all newbs. Then none of the newbs can't get fleet credits and small fleets that don't farm NWS can't get marks which they are all struggling for enough already. Considering how its easier to do NWS on KDF due to AA and how dead KDF queues are already, I think this hurt the KDF a lot too.
Now maybe they nerfed this too soon as I think they should have boosted marks you can gain elsewhere first, but this was an exploit that did need to go away. I was doing it too but don't mind having a reason to do stuff I don't do as much like defera and fleet defense.
ya that was me that couldn't ever get pugs, but i got proactive and in the right channels and started earning a pile of marks. well, that didn't last long.
Whoever made NWS farmable should be held responsible .
That would be Gozer. Good luck trying to hold him accountable for his actions. Of course, he'd blame the playerbase for farming instead of his screwed-up sense of game design that allowed them to farm to begin with.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
There are a lot of sources for FMs. Farming NWS was just the most efficient (by far). All of my toons are fully equipped and only two of them ever did NWS much at all.
The problem is that now we have to farm the way it was intended again which sounds all well and good on the surface but the system isn't built for small fleets and there isn't enough time in the day to farm with those conventional methods and farm the other stuff we need to keep projects going.
We've had fleet bases for nearly 2 years now and the best cryptic can come up with for small fleets is a 15% reduction in FM and Dil required after completing the entire Mine. I wouldn't be surprised if most small fleets are still working with just a 4% reduction.
I'm not saying fixing this exploit is a bad thing but I am saying the system needs to be fixed so we don't need an exploit to build the Base in a reasonable amount of time.
The problem is that now we have to farm the way it was intended again which sounds all well and good on the surface but the system isn't built for small fleets and there isn't enough time in the day to farm with those conventional methods and farm the other stuff we need to keep projects going.
We've had fleet bases for nearly 2 years now and the best cryptic can come up with for small fleets is a 15% reduction in FM and Dil required after completing the entire Mine. I wouldn't be surprised if most small fleets are still working with just a 4% reduction.
I'm not saying fixing this exploit is a bad thing but I am saying the system needs to be fixed so we don't need an exploit to build the Base in a reasonable amount of time.
Maybe two years is what they consider reasonable? After all its meant to be a large group effort and not a single player effort (or even a few players). A starbase for a whole fleet is meant to be a large group endeavor.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
AND MAYBE SIR YOUR JUST A MOUTH PIECE FOR FOR EVERYTHING CRYPTIC DOES.
You seem to me a YES man for everything the do the way you respond and make up what you believe cryptic intended and what they did not. Fact is you don't have any Idea of what they want or intend so please sir spare us your need to troll the folks that are indeed upset ant what they did because you feel the need to twist the knife in the people that you feel violated you by using this method to support their small fleets, I assure you that most of us with small fleets don't get into large fleet because of people like you. Have a NICE DAY;)
END THE WELFARE PROGRAM CRYPTIC OR MAYBE WE NEED TO END YOURS!!!
Getting to wave 9 in a pug was almost impossible. This hurts everyone who formed private teams to run the mission together.
ALL FARMERS SHOULD NOW BOYCOTT THE QUE AT ALL COST! it was our work that got us to where we could WIN THE NO WIN and its not meant to work that hard to carry others through it!
END THE WELFARE PROGRAM CRYPTIC OR MAYBE WE NEED TO END YOURS!!!
Only a Problem for those who have only one toon that can win nws (and no friends who can do it)
In future you just have to choose your Teammates more carefully. So Teams can switch chars after each win.
Assuming you can do 4 wins within 30min, a Team needs 2 strong chars (N+E), 2 medium (W+S) and the Useless.
In the past the Useless could be any player, now it needs to be a char from a good Player with CD on his strong chars.
Important thing is, to not "waste" your strong toons on easy flanks in strong Teams.
If i have 2 strong and one medium, i can farm all day, if i can get 4 others with same preconditions.
So this "improvement" is sad for those who have not enough strong toons ready but for better Players their FM will just be spread over their chars.
AND MAYBE SIR YOUR JUST A MOUTH PIECE FOR FOR EVERYTHING CRYPTIC DOES.
You seem to me a YES man for everything the do the way you respond and make up what you believe cryptic intended and what they did not. Fact is you don't have any Idea of what they want or intend so please sir spare us your need to troll the folks that are indeed upset ant what they did because you feel the need to twist the knife in the people that you feel violated you by using this method to support their small fleets, I assure you that most of us with small fleets don't get into large fleet because of people like you. Have a NICE DAY;)
Calm tha' self.
It's your choice to be in a small fleet. If it's so small you have to resort to dicking over PUGs in fleet actions, that's your choice. I'm not completely sure, but I would guess that if everyone doing it had kept it to premades, it wouldn't have been noticed or changed. I could be wrong though. I admit that.
I'm not trolling you or anyone. I honestly believe the people who were doing this on the queues that are now whining about the change were being dicks
Here is who this hurts: Noobs and those trying to break into nws.
An experienced team only needs 3-4 toons to cycle through and get close to the same amount of marks. BUT, I can tell you, that there is no way an experienced team will take someone questionable on a farming run--they wont want to risk it. So channels like Wesley's protege are going to suffer heavily. The top NWS players will be ok as all they need to do is set up ships on multi-tunes and beat wave 10 over and over 6 times an hour. So instead of farming 8 runs of wave 9's like we used to, we now can only do 6 runs of wave 10. So, you have to have people that can beat wave 10 in their sleep to go farming and have 3 toons capable of doing it. Therefore, I know I won't farm unless i flying with my group of players (tom, #'s, dennis, povius, jack, alfie, kappa, spawny, uraziel, and a few others). Similarly, I assume they will be doing the same. So any new guys trying to learn NWS or Farm it are screwed. Way to go Cryptic, good job!!!!! Oh, and if you are an engineer or sci boat, good luck of ever going on a farming mission. . . .
Furthermore, it really hurts the new players trying to earn fleet credits for their toons to get fleet gear. Cryptic has already shown that they are forcing you to get fleet gear for your toons as fleet gear is the best gear in the game. Now, they are drastically restricting your ability to buy fleet gear as gaining fleet credits will be much more difficult.
I really cannot understand why Cryptic is purposely chasing away the best players from the game--consequently the players that also log the most time in the game and spend the most money. This was for private queues not public, so who was it really hurting?
Oh FFS, as if getting a No Win group together isn't hard enough, now this? Plus people still learning it won't get anything so they'll be even less inclined, and if you lose at like 9 or 10 because one player got overwhelmed, everyone gets nothing? I mean makes sense for Fleet Alert, but that just screws up No Win to No End.
That wasn't the OP's point.
Before, people could leave NWS early and get their marks. Now you have to play through win or lose before you get the reward.
That's a good thing, I think. Definitely from Cryptic's point of view.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Before, people could leave NWS early and get their marks. Now you have to play through win or lose before you get the reward.
That's a good thing, I think. Definitely from Cryptic's point of view.
Maybe from cryptics point of view, not from a players point of view. There was no problem here with NWS, they did manage to give allot of us one less reason to bother with this game.
Also keep in mind that one way allot of new people learn, and get there first win, is by joining a farming group who will farm till wave 9 for a bunch of runs and then go for wave 10. That practice from farming is how new people learned and got good enough to beat 10, now they are just **** out of luck.
Professional groups are going to be less willing to allow an amateur to join when they know they have to go for wave 10 on the first try with them. All cryptic has done is hurt the people still trying to beat no win scenaro, and helped absolutely noone, which seems to be the company policy.
Look, most of the people from the Kirks_Protege will be ok--as long as they have at least 3 toons capable of winning it. But I still say the Wesley_Protege channel is hosed. So now they basically "hearded" the NWS pro players--who would help new guys farm--into even a tighter group that will only farm with each other.
the change doesn't affect the guys i play with much at all other than me having to rig out another NWS boat for my reman; but it kills the up and comers dead in their tracks. I simply do not get why Cryptic would do this to the private queues. . . .
Look, most of the people from the Kirks_Protege will be ok--as long as they have at least 3 toons capable of winning it. But I still say the Wesley_Protege channel is hosed. So now they basically "hearded" the NWS pro players--who would help new guys farm--into even a tighter group that will only farm with each other.
the change doesn't affect the guys i play with much at all other than me having to rig out another NWS boat for my reman; but it kills the up and comers dead in their tracks. I simply do not get why Cryptic would do this to the private queues. . . .
Exactly, there are two very different issues here being fixed/broken. One is people jumping out of PUG queues and TRIBBLE over their team in Fleet Alert. This is broken and should be fixed (and this method fixes it).
The other issue is No Win Scenario. If you go through with this blanket change there will be almost no one doing NWS. The greater part of the community who does NWS does farming for a while, and then on the last run before someone has to go they will do an Accolade run. If you make this change, there pretty much will only be accolade runs once in a bluemoon.
No Win Scenario farming is neither broken nor an exploit. Take NWS off of this blanket change. Fix Fleet Alert, leave NWS the hell alone or you will lose a lot of activity, a LOT of activity from your most active gamers.
Comments
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
your not supposed to pug no win. its not possible to get past 10 with a random pug, most likely not even to 9. there are several channels for forming teams to run it properly and get the most out of it. but no, now its all ruined.
People warped because of accolades on that thing.
Its not about the problem created by people ditching pugs, I doubt it happens at all. The problem is the ridiculous amount of marks being accessible to only those of us who are able to beat or farm NWS. What that does is cause all the experienced players to vacate the fleet mark queues and leave those events taking longer to start and failing more since its all newbs. Then none of the newbs can't get fleet credits and small fleets that don't farm NWS can't get marks which they are all struggling for enough already. Considering how its easier to do NWS on KDF due to AA and how dead KDF queues are already, I think this hurt the KDF a lot too.
Now maybe they nerfed this too soon as I think they should have boosted marks you can gain elsewhere first, but this was an exploit that did need to go away. I was doing it too but don't mind having a reason to do stuff I don't do as much like defera and fleet defense.
so kudos cryptic
ya that was me that couldn't ever get pugs, but i got proactive and in the right channels and started earning a pile of marks. well, that didn't last long.
That would be Gozer. Good luck trying to hold him accountable for his actions. Of course, he'd blame the playerbase for farming instead of his screwed-up sense of game design that allowed them to farm to begin with.
Were he still employed by Cryptic, anyway.
C'mon, a nerf like that? That certainly tells me that they ain't ignoring that 1%.
The Fleet Alert one did need to happen though, and I'm glad it did.
The problem is that now we have to farm the way it was intended again which sounds all well and good on the surface but the system isn't built for small fleets and there isn't enough time in the day to farm with those conventional methods and farm the other stuff we need to keep projects going.
We've had fleet bases for nearly 2 years now and the best cryptic can come up with for small fleets is a 15% reduction in FM and Dil required after completing the entire Mine. I wouldn't be surprised if most small fleets are still working with just a 4% reduction.
I'm not saying fixing this exploit is a bad thing but I am saying the system needs to be fixed so we don't need an exploit to build the Base in a reasonable amount of time.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Maybe two years is what they consider reasonable? After all its meant to be a large group effort and not a single player effort (or even a few players). A starbase for a whole fleet is meant to be a large group endeavor.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
/10
Now I will leave Fleet Alert in the beginning. I hate not getting the last Borg Cube or Udine. Before the change I helped till Boss arrives.
If you want to do that, premade it.
If people do that in a pug I'm in, you get reported and put on the ignore list. Its a **** move.
AND MAYBE SIR YOUR JUST A MOUTH PIECE FOR FOR EVERYTHING CRYPTIC DOES.
You seem to me a YES man for everything the do the way you respond and make up what you believe cryptic intended and what they did not. Fact is you don't have any Idea of what they want or intend so please sir spare us your need to troll the folks that are indeed upset ant what they did because you feel the need to twist the knife in the people that you feel violated you by using this method to support their small fleets, I assure you that most of us with small fleets don't get into large fleet because of people like you. Have a NICE DAY;)
ALL FARMERS SHOULD NOW BOYCOTT THE QUE AT ALL COST! it was our work that got us to where we could WIN THE NO WIN and its not meant to work that hard to carry others through it!
In future you just have to choose your Teammates more carefully. So Teams can switch chars after each win.
Assuming you can do 4 wins within 30min, a Team needs 2 strong chars (N+E), 2 medium (W+S) and the Useless.
In the past the Useless could be any player, now it needs to be a char from a good Player with CD on his strong chars.
Important thing is, to not "waste" your strong toons on easy flanks in strong Teams.
If i have 2 strong and one medium, i can farm all day, if i can get 4 others with same preconditions.
So this "improvement" is sad for those who have not enough strong toons ready but for better Players their FM will just be spread over their chars.
Raumpatrouille Elysion
KDF
Angriffsflotte Omega
Calm tha' self.
It's your choice to be in a small fleet. If it's so small you have to resort to dicking over PUGs in fleet actions, that's your choice. I'm not completely sure, but I would guess that if everyone doing it had kept it to premades, it wouldn't have been noticed or changed. I could be wrong though. I admit that.
I'm not trolling you or anyone. I honestly believe the people who were doing this on the queues that are now whining about the change were being dicks
An experienced team only needs 3-4 toons to cycle through and get close to the same amount of marks. BUT, I can tell you, that there is no way an experienced team will take someone questionable on a farming run--they wont want to risk it. So channels like Wesley's protege are going to suffer heavily. The top NWS players will be ok as all they need to do is set up ships on multi-tunes and beat wave 10 over and over 6 times an hour. So instead of farming 8 runs of wave 9's like we used to, we now can only do 6 runs of wave 10. So, you have to have people that can beat wave 10 in their sleep to go farming and have 3 toons capable of doing it. Therefore, I know I won't farm unless i flying with my group of players (tom, #'s, dennis, povius, jack, alfie, kappa, spawny, uraziel, and a few others). Similarly, I assume they will be doing the same. So any new guys trying to learn NWS or Farm it are screwed. Way to go Cryptic, good job!!!!! Oh, and if you are an engineer or sci boat, good luck of ever going on a farming mission. . . .
Furthermore, it really hurts the new players trying to earn fleet credits for their toons to get fleet gear. Cryptic has already shown that they are forcing you to get fleet gear for your toons as fleet gear is the best gear in the game. Now, they are drastically restricting your ability to buy fleet gear as gaining fleet credits will be much more difficult.
I really cannot understand why Cryptic is purposely chasing away the best players from the game--consequently the players that also log the most time in the game and spend the most money. This was for private queues not public, so who was it really hurting?
Porch
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
That wasn't the OP's point.
Before, people could leave NWS early and get their marks. Now you have to play through win or lose before you get the reward.
That's a good thing, I think. Definitely from Cryptic's point of view.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Maybe from cryptics point of view, not from a players point of view. There was no problem here with NWS, they did manage to give allot of us one less reason to bother with this game.
Also keep in mind that one way allot of new people learn, and get there first win, is by joining a farming group who will farm till wave 9 for a bunch of runs and then go for wave 10. That practice from farming is how new people learned and got good enough to beat 10, now they are just **** out of luck.
Professional groups are going to be less willing to allow an amateur to join when they know they have to go for wave 10 on the first try with them. All cryptic has done is hurt the people still trying to beat no win scenaro, and helped absolutely noone, which seems to be the company policy.
My character Tsin'xing
Yes.
10char.s
Why was this the work put in to no-win. People 3-man it so the solution is to take away the incentive to play it. I'm failing to see the logic.
the change doesn't affect the guys i play with much at all other than me having to rig out another NWS boat for my reman; but it kills the up and comers dead in their tracks. I simply do not get why Cryptic would do this to the private queues. . . .
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Exactly, there are two very different issues here being fixed/broken. One is people jumping out of PUG queues and TRIBBLE over their team in Fleet Alert. This is broken and should be fixed (and this method fixes it).
The other issue is No Win Scenario. If you go through with this blanket change there will be almost no one doing NWS. The greater part of the community who does NWS does farming for a while, and then on the last run before someone has to go they will do an Accolade run. If you make this change, there pretty much will only be accolade runs once in a bluemoon.
No Win Scenario farming is neither broken nor an exploit. Take NWS off of this blanket change. Fix Fleet Alert, leave NWS the hell alone or you will lose a lot of activity, a LOT of activity from your most active gamers.