Dyson - BoP - Raptors

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  twam Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  The Raptors are basically your traditional Federation Escort equivalents, but with Cloak. They have more tac consoles than most BoP's (barring the fleet Hoh'sus) and have way more hull/shields, hence live longer. They also have an extra aft weapon and an extra boff slot, compared to BoP's. No C-store version, though, and the Qin model is perceived to have weird handling.
  
  BoP's, on the other hand, can Battle Cloak, which is nice, but has since then been made slightly less rare by introduction of the Romulans, all of whose ships can do so. They also have a way higher turn rate than the Raptors, making them much more nimble and allowing them to outmaneouvre most other ships. Finally, they have the all universal boff layout, which tends to be used for regular tac escort layouts anyway, but still offers more flexibility, especially for those thinking outside the box/experimenting with builds. They have paper thin hull and shields, though.
  
  *shrug*
  
  Both are awesome, both have serious drawbacks. Raptors are not large bops, though - they are more like fedscorts.
  
  
  Then, yes, Raptors can out-dps Dyson ships, but Dysons can out-dps Raptors too - depends on the layouts. The Raptors are more tactically focussed, though, that's for sure. One thing the Dyson offers over the Raptors is the option of combining Cannon:Scatter Volley and Gravity Well, which is an extremely effective combination (BoP's can do it too).
  
  The Mogh, as you mentioned, is an excellent choice for a tac captain - it can lay down a lot of hurt, while being very tanky. Use either beams or DHC's - either works. Another popular choice for tacs is the fleet Tor'kaht.
  
  Finally, yeah, the fleet ships cost a ship requisition, on top of the price you pay when buying it, which needs to be produced through a starbase project. They aren't free, but if you're in a fleet that requires extremely high donation levels first, browse for another one - there's plenty of fleets that are pretty reasonable (I've seen anywhere from 40k to 200k minimum fleet credits worth of donations in the fleets I'm in, for instance).
  
  But really, just enjoy the game and play the way you like - there's plenty of stuff to do and discover

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  majesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  Well I don't know a great deal about which has more DPS, as I can't stand Raptors due to their pivot point error and BOP's because their lack of survival even when playing them as a hit and run type vessel which they were designed as. But I do believe a BOP has a harder hitting and spike damage potential but most go Raptor due to the survival factor. Also it greatly depends on what you're running on your ship, what DOFF you have assigned and how you set-up your BOFF abilities.
  
  To be honest both Raptor and BOP lines need a total overhaul as our tactical line of ships are lacking in both the survival (BOP) and turn (Raptor) areas.
  
  The Mogh is an excellent choice for a tactical. I used to run it on my tac before going back to my Galor. I run it (the Mogh) on my engineer and I love it. Hard hitting and got the survival factor that comes with being in a Battlecruiser.
  
  As for the fleet thing, the fleet needs to earn fleet ship provisions and so each time someone buys a fleet ship they loose one provision. There are two projects that generate provisions, one of them is close to 200k dilithium for 5 provisions and so many fleets have to have higher requirements for members to get fleet ships, especially the smaller fleets, as they are rather heavy on resources. Even the bigger fleets have like 200K FC earning to access fleet stores but gaining 200K on a leaderboard is rather easy, I did it in like 24 hours.

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  shpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  Ok, let's try and take it one by one:) :
  
  BoPs vs Raptors
  
  Raptors are generaly considered tactical ships(doesn't mean you must be a tac.captain to make full use of them). They are fast, built to deal damage first and foremost and have solid endurance, especially for PvE they can handle themselves and not die much if built right. The raptors are most definitely not a large BoPs and there are in fact larger BoPs (like Hegh'ta) than Raptors. They are completely different ship classes, the closest thing to a Raptor is a Federation Escort if you played on the Federation side.
  
  The raiders (Birds of Prey) are the most versatile and IMHO the funnest ship class in STO. Their entire boff seating is universal which enables the player to tailor the ship to his/hers needs and desires. They are mostly used as tactical strike ships, but also as science/support often enough.
  They are the fastest ship class in STO, but have very low hull and shield values because of that. Unlike the Raptors (which have regular cloak) all the BoPs also have access to battlecloak, which makes them the perfect hit and run ship. They are mostly used in this 'hit and run' mode and while it may appear that the Raptors outdamage them - you need to consider that their primary role is spike/burst damage in order to take out a ship in a single or couple of very short and fast passes.
  Also the B'rel BoP has the enhanced battle cloak that enables using mines & torpedoes as well as most science abilities from cloak (note that it actually automatically decloaks and cloaks again in a interval of 3 secs when doing this), which makes it a great torpedo boat or science/support ship in PvP.
  In PvE the BoPs are more vulnerable that other ship classes, but they don't specially fall behind, especially considering that the end-game content is relatively easy. I've done end-game instances with the Hegh'ta and the B'rel and they do good.
  
  The Dysons
  
  While I'll say that I haven't used the DSD due to how awful they look, it's not completely true that they will out damage a Raptor or a BoP. It all depends on builds and setup. On paper, there are Raptors that carry equal or similar firepower (Fleet Qin, Mirror Qin, fleet Somraw) and also BoPs (Hoh'sus, Fleet Norgh), but as I mentioned the BoPs are more fine tuned for burst/spike damage. The DPS that a ship can pump out on a big scale depends from the setup and seating, not just tactical consoles.
  
  The DSD in tactical mode is suposed to be a destroyer, so if you want to compare it's preformance probably a better comparsion would be the Krenn Destroyer, Guramba Siege Destroyer or Fleet Scourge Destroyer.
  
  The Dysons are a destroyer/science vessel hybrid so they're neither here or there in the lineup. The destroyer is basically comparable to a Raptor with the difference that most destroyers don't have a cloak, so they have bigger hull and shield values to compensate, which makes the Raptor better for alpha strikes, but the destoryer a bit more durable.
  
  Battlecruisers/Battleships
  
  My main STO char. uses the Mogh and as it seems, he'll be using that for a long time. The Mogh may seem good on paper, but looks even better in game. Seriously that ship is a beast, a true Klingon battlecruiser.
  The Mogh probably is the most tactical battlecruiser on the KDF side, with the Tor'kaht (Fleet Vor'cha) being at the same level with certain differences in gameplay.
  The truth is, the entire KDF lineup is filled with very good preforming battlecruisers and that's probably the KDF's strongest ship class. There is a good battlecruiser for any role, I recommed looking through them and chosing what fits the way you play best.
  
  As a true battleship, I'd say that is the Bortasqu'. When I think of battleship, I think of Bortasqu'. This is the ship my main STO char used for nearly 2 years (since it was released) and I still have chars flying the Bortasqu', the only reason I switched to Mogh on my main is for the change and because I love the look of the Mogh as much as I love the look of the Bortasqu'.
  Now, I'm inclined to warn you - the Bortasqu' is the most hated and loved ship in the KDF at the same time. It's a ship that has widely divided the KDF playerbase, some of us love it and others passionately hate it. If you're not into slow, heavy, battleship style of gameplay maybe not the best solution for you, but if you are - this is still probably the best ship in STO, in my opinion. It just takes time to get used to flying one.
  
  The Tactical Bortasqu' is the hardest hitting cruiser in game, the only cruiser with 5 tac.consoles and combined with the Disruptor Autocannon that thing hits like a runaway train, literally.
  
  Fleets/Fleet Ships
  
  While it may seem to you as a lot, being a new player and all, the fleet donations you need to make in order to have...let's say a ship fully outfitted in fleet gear can be counted in hundreds thoulsands even millions. So maybe the minimal quota you saw looks like a lot to you from this perspective, but to my knowledge most fleets have reasonable demands in terms of how much you need to donate before you gain access to the fleet stores.
  
  And yes, whenever a member of the fleet buys any fleet gear or fleet ships the fleet loses provisions. The number of provisions dictates the amount of fleet gear/ships that can be bought from the fleet and each time something is bought, a provision is deducted. Provisions are gained by doing fleet projects that involve donating misscellaneous resources, like dilithium, XP, fleet marks, Doffs, etc.
  
  Hope all of this was somewhat helpfull.
  Glad to hear you're having fun with STO and I hope you'll continue to do so.
  
  P.S. Yeah, the leveling process to max level in STO is fast and doesn't really prepare you or educate you much. But don't worry, soon enough after playing a bit at max level you'll get the hang of things.

  

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  catliketyping Member Posts: 611

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  Yeah, doing end-game content in a B'rel or Hegh'ta is actually a lot of fun. With a Cruiser, you circle & BeamFAW while spamming TacTeam (or whatever)... but a cloaked ship can't do that. It's all about knife strikes, not being the bigger hammer.
  
  Back in the day, when there was basically no content besides STFs, I would sometimes do the patrols (i.e. kill all the bad things for dilithium) on the Hard/Elite difficulty in order to be less bored & get better stuff.
  
  It was actually much easier to fight Federation ships (cruisers) rather than Borg because you could tell which way was forward/aft. With the Borg, you'd nail the shields, and then you wouldn't know which side you had to hit again.
  
  At least with the B'rel, you had the Cloak. I couldn't imagine doing it in a Hegh'ta. The B'rel is just a superior ship for any number of reasons, even if the Hegh'ta is still great (even if dated & well behind the power curve).
  
  Loving the T'varo now, though. Turns much slower, but the ship itself feels way faster than my B'rel. Being forced to take APO3 might have something to do with it
  
  Romulans are totally Easy Mode, though.

  Nessia (KDF Sci)
  IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)

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