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Understanding the best choice of science vessels
robray71
Member Posts: 52 Arc User
Hi everyone. Long time listener, first time caller here.
I'll try to be as direct as possible....
My main is a sci and I've been ship-hopping primarily between a Vesta and a Wells class. I play mostly PvE and while I like both ships, I find the Vesta a little bit too squishy and the Wells doesn't really appeal to my "classic trek" style preferences. Having said that, I started searching for some alternatives. There are no secrets here. All of the ships I've designated (to myself) as possible alternatives have all been discussed ad nauseam in these forums, but I always wondered why it seems that the majority of players all seem to revert back to the same ships.
So, I decided to make a spreadsheet of the ships I was considering. Here are the stats.
Ship: Wells Temporal Sci
Hull Max 30000
Crew Max 250
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Ens
Tactical
Science 1 Cdr + 1 Lt
Universal 1 Lt. Cdr + 1 Lt.
CONSOLES
Engineering 3
Tactical 3
Science 4
Turn Rate 15
Shield Modifier 1,45
Impulse Modifier 0,2
Inertia Rating
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Vesta
Hull Max 27900
Crew Max 750
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt
Tactical 1 Lt
Science 1 Cdr
Universal 1 Lt. Cdr + 1 Ens
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 2
Tactical 3
Science 5
Turn Rate 12
Shield Modifier 1,35
Impulse Modifier 0,15
Inertia Rating 50
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Solonae
Hull Max 28500
Crew Max 400
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt
Tactical 1 Lt. Cdr + 1 Ens
Science 1 Cdr + 1 Lt
Universal
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 2
Tactical 3
Science 4
Turn Rate 12
Shield Modifier 1,3
Impulse Modifier 0,16
Inertia Rating 50
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Fleet Intrepid
Hull Max 29700
Crew Max 200
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt.
Tactical 1 Lt.
Science 1 Cdr + 1 LT Cdr + 1 Ens
Universal
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 3
Tactical 3
Science 4
Turn Rate 12
Shield Modifier 1,43
Impulse Modifier ?
Inertia Rating ?
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Fleet Nebula
Hull Max 34650
Crew Max 750
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt. Cdr
Tactical 1 Lt.
Science 1 Cdr + 1 ensign
Universal 1 Lt.
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 4
Tactical 2
Science 4
Turn Rate 9
Shield Modifier 1,43
Impulse Modifier
Inertia Rating
____________________________________________________________________
OK first off. I have some brief general observations here. IMO , the overall capability of each ship is fairly equitable. I am also really surprised that the FLEET Ships aren't really more powerful than the Wells (lockbox ship), the Vesta ( a C-store ship), or even this version of the Solonae Destroyer (The "free_"ship).
Also, seeing a base stat comparison makes me realize why so many people seem convinced that the Wells is the best overall sci vessel. Of these 5 ships, the Wells has the 2nd best Hull rating, 3rd best crew compliment, the most flexible Boff setup, the Best shield modifier, and the best turn rate. balanced console setup is a bonus too.
This brings me to the Vesta. A lot of people stand by the Vesta as one of STO's best ships. Hangar bays...good special consoles.. and more...this all makes for a fun ship. However, as a Vesta owner myself, it just irks me how SQUISHY it is. Looking at the stats, it's easy to see why....Worst hull rating of these ships (very slightly offset by a high crew compliment. This ship DOES BOAST a very flexible Boff setup rivaled only by the Wells. But with only 2 engineering consoles, it's pretty tough to offset crazy hull squishyness by stacking armor consoles. This ship has mid-class turn rate and is in the bottom two for shield modifiers.
Now, on to the Solonae Destroyer. Again, I am referring to the "free" version which was available as part of the anniversary event. Another squishy ship, the destroyer follows the Vesta with a relatively poor hull rating combined with only 2 engineering console slots. (= no armor cons). This ship also has the worst shield modifier. IMO the weakest overall when compared to the other 4 ships.
OK...so what about Fleet ships. My 2 personal choices for this comparison were the Fleet Intrepid and the Fleet Nebula .
the Intrepid seems close to par with the Wells and the Vesta. It's hull resembles the Wells, but the even smaller crew compliment affects regen. It doesn't have the Boff Flexibility as the Wells and Vesta but it's turn rate is competitive and it's shield modifier is close to the wells class. 3 engineering consoles (like the wells) allows you to stack armor to compensate for a wells-type hull. But notice how close this ship can be compared to the WElls....but the Wells is slightly better...in all aspects.
Lastly, the Fleet Nebula. Now, I've been complaining about ship survivability and I suppose that the buck stops here. 1rst class Hull, 1rst class crew compliment, 4 engineering consoles in which you can effectively stack armor....and you also have a fairly flexible Boff setup plus an impressive shield modifier. I see two drawbacks to the Nebbie....Lack of Tac console firepower and a cruiser-type turn rate.
So these stats lead me to a couple questions which I'm confident some kind reader can help me answer....
1.) Are there any effective ways to increase HULL RESISTANCE to a ship like the Vesta, Slonae Destroyer, or Fleet Intrepid other than using armor consoles?
2.) Is the Nebula's tanking ability really completely nixed by its lack of firepower? are larger firing arcs and using the universal as a tac enough to bring the Nebula's attack strength back to a competitive level?
I fully understand that as a sci vessel captain, I have by and large the best shields. Unfortunately, bleed-through seems to be a large part of PvE. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
RobRay Out!
I'll try to be as direct as possible....
My main is a sci and I've been ship-hopping primarily between a Vesta and a Wells class. I play mostly PvE and while I like both ships, I find the Vesta a little bit too squishy and the Wells doesn't really appeal to my "classic trek" style preferences. Having said that, I started searching for some alternatives. There are no secrets here. All of the ships I've designated (to myself) as possible alternatives have all been discussed ad nauseam in these forums, but I always wondered why it seems that the majority of players all seem to revert back to the same ships.
So, I decided to make a spreadsheet of the ships I was considering. Here are the stats.
Ship: Wells Temporal Sci
Hull Max 30000
Crew Max 250
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Ens
Tactical
Science 1 Cdr + 1 Lt
Universal 1 Lt. Cdr + 1 Lt.
CONSOLES
Engineering 3
Tactical 3
Science 4
Turn Rate 15
Shield Modifier 1,45
Impulse Modifier 0,2
Inertia Rating
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Vesta
Hull Max 27900
Crew Max 750
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt
Tactical 1 Lt
Science 1 Cdr
Universal 1 Lt. Cdr + 1 Ens
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 2
Tactical 3
Science 5
Turn Rate 12
Shield Modifier 1,35
Impulse Modifier 0,15
Inertia Rating 50
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Solonae
Hull Max 28500
Crew Max 400
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt
Tactical 1 Lt. Cdr + 1 Ens
Science 1 Cdr + 1 Lt
Universal
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 2
Tactical 3
Science 4
Turn Rate 12
Shield Modifier 1,3
Impulse Modifier 0,16
Inertia Rating 50
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Fleet Intrepid
Hull Max 29700
Crew Max 200
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt.
Tactical 1 Lt.
Science 1 Cdr + 1 LT Cdr + 1 Ens
Universal
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 3
Tactical 3
Science 4
Turn Rate 12
Shield Modifier 1,43
Impulse Modifier ?
Inertia Rating ?
___________________________________________________________________________
Ship: Fleet Nebula
Hull Max 34650
Crew Max 750
BOFFs
Engineering 1 Lt. Cdr
Tactical 1 Lt.
Science 1 Cdr + 1 ensign
Universal 1 Lt.
Total BOFF Powers: 12
CONSOLES
Engineering 4
Tactical 2
Science 4
Turn Rate 9
Shield Modifier 1,43
Impulse Modifier
Inertia Rating
____________________________________________________________________
OK first off. I have some brief general observations here. IMO , the overall capability of each ship is fairly equitable. I am also really surprised that the FLEET Ships aren't really more powerful than the Wells (lockbox ship), the Vesta ( a C-store ship), or even this version of the Solonae Destroyer (The "free_"ship).
Also, seeing a base stat comparison makes me realize why so many people seem convinced that the Wells is the best overall sci vessel. Of these 5 ships, the Wells has the 2nd best Hull rating, 3rd best crew compliment, the most flexible Boff setup, the Best shield modifier, and the best turn rate. balanced console setup is a bonus too.
This brings me to the Vesta. A lot of people stand by the Vesta as one of STO's best ships. Hangar bays...good special consoles.. and more...this all makes for a fun ship. However, as a Vesta owner myself, it just irks me how SQUISHY it is. Looking at the stats, it's easy to see why....Worst hull rating of these ships (very slightly offset by a high crew compliment. This ship DOES BOAST a very flexible Boff setup rivaled only by the Wells. But with only 2 engineering consoles, it's pretty tough to offset crazy hull squishyness by stacking armor consoles. This ship has mid-class turn rate and is in the bottom two for shield modifiers.
Now, on to the Solonae Destroyer. Again, I am referring to the "free" version which was available as part of the anniversary event. Another squishy ship, the destroyer follows the Vesta with a relatively poor hull rating combined with only 2 engineering console slots. (= no armor cons). This ship also has the worst shield modifier. IMO the weakest overall when compared to the other 4 ships.
OK...so what about Fleet ships. My 2 personal choices for this comparison were the Fleet Intrepid and the Fleet Nebula .
the Intrepid seems close to par with the Wells and the Vesta. It's hull resembles the Wells, but the even smaller crew compliment affects regen. It doesn't have the Boff Flexibility as the Wells and Vesta but it's turn rate is competitive and it's shield modifier is close to the wells class. 3 engineering consoles (like the wells) allows you to stack armor to compensate for a wells-type hull. But notice how close this ship can be compared to the WElls....but the Wells is slightly better...in all aspects.
Lastly, the Fleet Nebula. Now, I've been complaining about ship survivability and I suppose that the buck stops here. 1rst class Hull, 1rst class crew compliment, 4 engineering consoles in which you can effectively stack armor....and you also have a fairly flexible Boff setup plus an impressive shield modifier. I see two drawbacks to the Nebbie....Lack of Tac console firepower and a cruiser-type turn rate.
So these stats lead me to a couple questions which I'm confident some kind reader can help me answer....
1.) Are there any effective ways to increase HULL RESISTANCE to a ship like the Vesta, Slonae Destroyer, or Fleet Intrepid other than using armor consoles?
2.) Is the Nebula's tanking ability really completely nixed by its lack of firepower? are larger firing arcs and using the universal as a tac enough to bring the Nebula's attack strength back to a competitive level?
I fully understand that as a sci vessel captain, I have by and large the best shields. Unfortunately, bleed-through seems to be a large part of PvE. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
RobRay Out!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by robray71 on
0
Comments
The Fleet Nebula and Fleet Intrepid are both great, but more suited to PvP (in my opinion) unless you plan to use Science Powers in an offensive role.
The Wells is a great ship, and really has no general setbacks. The Solanae and Vesta are both squishy and (again, in my opinion) poor choices. You are better off with a science-based escort (Elachi S'Golth, Fleet Advanced, Temporal Destroyer) then you are with a Vesta/Solanae. There are many reasons I say this.
Personally, as far as science ships go, I'd drop all of the candidates you listed and take a look at the Tholian Orb Weaver. It is tougher then any of the above, possess a more PvE-friendly universal console, and retains the flexibility/versatility that gives the Temporal Science ships such an appeal.
That aside, of everything you listed, the Wells is hands down bar none the best choice.
I too found the Vesta squishy at first....however, like any ship, the Vesta can be improved on with upgraded gear. I saw reasonable improvemet with blue grade consoles (RCS for improved turn rates, consoles that boosted weapon damage) and now that I have a lot of fleet/purple quality gear installed the ship is a blast. Sure, I still go BOOM sometimes but that is usually a failure on the Captain's part rather than a failure of the ship.
I have a Engineer Captain flying a Science vessel armed with Anti-Proton Dual Heavy Cannons....
Best of everything
The nebula cannot tank. You need to accept this before you move on. It may have strong shields but its hull is still the squishy weak hull of a science ship. It has very limited firepower and very limited healing abilities because it does not have the lt cmdr science.
It can't do science well either. All you can do is equip grav well 3 because the rest of the slots are taken up by your shield and hull heals.
If you want to get a true science ship.. save up and buy the Adapted Battlecruiser.
It is literally a cruiser with all the science ship benefits except for subsystem targeting...but it gets cruiser comms.
It may or may not receive secondary deflectors in the future...but then again what we see of those deflectors they are but a gimmicky stupid weak add on. It does not fix the horribly broken science abilities nor the fact that this game is purely weapon-dps based.
...oh did I mention this ship has the weapon slots of a cruiser? Yep 8 weapon slots... with subsystem analysis, sci ship shield modifier AND the hull HP of a cruiser. Cmdr universal+lt cmdr science..it can be a full science ship or a hybrid much better than the nebula.
THAT my friend, is a true science ship.
That's first and foremost stupid power creep
But OP, cmdrskyfaller is right in one regard - STO is designed in a way that there is always THE best ship for a job. Power creep is the name of the game - however, you can make everything work as well. I'm a (Fleet)Nebula sci and I love that ship. You just have to realise that not all ships that are available can statisfy the current power creep flavour of the month. When you use a Nebula for example, you might actually experiment and come up with your own build that works rather than looking the current cookie cutter build up on the forums.
There is always the single best build people come up with and that'll spread like wildfire until some nerf/change is implemented into the game whih makes another build the top dog. But even a "old" (in game terms, emaning pre f2p/power creep times) ship can work well and can mean a challenge which is not solely meassured in the amount of money/in-game currency you need to spend for the gear.
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Well, anyhow, for my money, the most overlooked Science ship is hands down the Fleet Research Science Vessel (aka the Golfball). with LTC Eng you can lay down EWP, mix with a nice Gravity Well 3, and for extra fun, still have plenty of slots to dedicate to keep it one piece. Pick up some Plasma torpedoes and mines, or Transphasic if you like, and don't sweat the weapon power. The 13 turn is only matched matched by Recon Science Vessel, and bettered by the Nova, making it on the nimble end of things. Just, y'know, don't go loading out your Sci slots with Field generators and Uni consoles, it makes you look like an idiot. Treat 'em like an escort would treat its Tactical Console slots and all of the sci ships should work fine for anything you play (except maybe No Win Scenario).
The Pancake also works great as a torpedo boat! The Crystalline Entity hates mine!
As for an actual sci ship for PVE the Vesta is best as you can do OK DPS with the aux DHC or regular DHC, and can use Lt Cmdr and Lt tactical, more tac then any other sci ship.
Unfortunatley going all sci in PVE won't work very good you need to have some tac in the mix either sci heavy tac ship or tac heavy sci ship.
The other sci ships like Nebula and Wells are mainly good for being a PVP healer, debuffer, and snooper, but not best for PVE.
*shrug* your probably right about that, luckily PVE is so easy it really does not matter. The only thing i disagree with is the Vesta, which can do great damage and can be nearly as powerful as a Escort if built right