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Ship weapons don't "look Star Trek".

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  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It would be nice if they actually took the time to go back and fix a lot of what's wrong Visually. the way the weapons fire would be a nice thing to see retooled as well as it stands, the emanation points just kind of suck as a whole. On my bird of prey, i seem to be firing from everything except the two actual guns on the ship. Beam arrays would be nice if they could get that track shot down, and cannons and turrets would be nice to get actual visuals as well.

    To be honest though, when they'd built the champions engine, it was already outdated, so building the STO and NW games off of it was a terrible idea. This game would benefit from an engine that allows actual physics and high def models. Then again, Star Trek also deserves a team of devs that don't rush things to live half finished, then say they're more than they're really worth.

    *oh noes*

    angrytarg wrote: »
    ....
    But meh. The basic game design is set in stone.

    Only up to the point where they retool entire sections (see the "captain's skills")
    [/COLOR]

    There is nothing to give up, that is an actual location (most often referred to as one of the dorsal arrays) for a phaser array on many newer era ships.

    Many 24th century vessels have multiple for/aft weapons, and also dorsal/ventural weapons as well.

    Nah dude, they actually recycled FX quite regularly including firing a phaser FROM the torpedo bay's location on the hull, either taking it from or using it during the incident with that "salad over El Adrel" guy.
    therealmt wrote: »
    If you were around from before season 4 the weapons actually looked more decent then they do now. They decided to change them for,no apparent reason at all. I still grave back for the days where polarons looked so much more beautiful and simple.

    In all honesty i think i know why they changed them, like the old AP effects look a whole lot like what Voth weaponary looks now. I think at that moment they already knew they had to 'nerf' the old wep effects for all the future lockbox weapons they woukd be releasing.

    Stabilized tets look a whole lot on the old polarons too, yet they cant even reach the levels of beauti from the past. Its like changing these forums, they make unwanted change and they will keep doing so for the endof days in sto im afraid.

    <-- Closed-Beta. And yeah, the trends they are a full-power-to-engines-ahead.
    kublahkan wrote: »
    If I may add...

    What visually bugs me is the weapon hardpoint of my cruiser's aft arrays: the nacelles.

    Some nacelles do have strips on them and are even animated in the series as such, but that doesn't mean the way those are often displayed in STO (the "Star Cruiser" comes to mind) is sensible.
  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    One thing that always bothered me was that phaser arrays never sounded right. They should sound more like this or this.
  • kublahkankublahkan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    hypl wrote: »
    One thing that always bothered me was that phaser arrays never sounded right. They should sound more like this or this.

    At least those aft phaser shots aren't from the nacelles...

    Yeah I know I'm stuck on that but in my book nacelles aren't build to hold weapons.
    "Starship captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. The secret is to give them what they need, not what they want."
    - Scotty, to La Forge
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    kublahkan wrote: »
    At least those aft phaser shots aren't from the nacelles...

    Yeah I know I'm stuck on that but in my book nacelles aren't build to hold weapons.

    But they put weapons on nacelles of some Fed ships.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    *oh noes*




    Only up to the point where they retool entire sections (see the "captain's skills")



    Nah dude, they actually recycled FX quite regularly including firing a phaser FROM the torpedo bay's location on the hull, either taking it from or using it during the incident with that "salad over El Adrel" guy.



    <-- Closed-Beta. And yeah, the trends they are a full-power-to-engines-ahead.



    Some nacelles do have strips on them and are even animated in the series as such, but that doesn't mean the way those are often displayed in STO (the "Star Cruiser" comes to mind) is sensible.

    There are Starfleet vessels such as the enterprise, that does have an array located right near the torpedo launchers.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    But they put weapons on nacelles of some Fed ships.

    Yes some, but most in game should not as that according to ship blueprints don't show them to be a viable location for some.

    Now while we can say well these are evolved versions of what the blueprinting shows, that would probably be the only likely excuse for them having them.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    This would only ever apply to Federation ships (unless I'm mistaken). No other ship by another other faction had the effect desired here. The problem? As soon as you press that button for the weapon to fire, it fires. Do you really want to sit there and have to wait for the weapon to load before it discharges?
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    There are Starfleet vessels such as the enterprise, that does have an array located right near the torpedo launchers.

    In the "Salad with Vinegrette over El TRIBBLE Grille" episode the crew uses the torpedo launcher to fire the "bigger phaser galagun blast" to try and knock out the heavily shielded transporter inhibitor that was keeping Picard down on the planet with Oil-Beat-Face Monster and an Alien-Mine Danny Glover Knock-off.

    There is, as I recall, another episode where they use the same animation for apparent no reason, and that is the humor being addressed.

    As for your claim about the proximity of phaser and torpedo weapons on ships - the only ship anything like you describe is the TOS-series Enterprise where phasers and torpedoes came from the bottom of the saucer though Abrahms-Demo-Reel-Enterprise isn't far off that. But guess what - we're not talking TOS or 2009-TOS, we're talking TNG+ and those ships are nothing like you describe therefore your contribution to this thread is nill.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    In the "Salad with Vinegrette over El TRIBBLE Grille" episode the crew uses the torpedo launcher to fire the "bigger phaser galagun blast" to try and knock out the heavily shielded transporter inhibitor that was keeping Picard down on the planet with Oil-Beat-Face Monster and an Alien-Mine Danny Glover Knock-off.

    There is, as I recall, another episode where they use the same animation for apparent no reason, and that is the humor being addressed.

    As for your claim about the proximity of phaser and torpedo weapons on ships - the only ship anything like you describe is the TOS-series Enterprise where phasers and torpedoes came from the bottom of the saucer though Abrahms-Demo-Reel-Enterprise isn't far off that. But guess what - we're not talking TOS or 2009-TOS, we're talking TNG+ and those ships are nothing like you describe therefore your contribution to this thread is nill.

    You would be greatly incorrect, while these ships may not have one located dead near the torpedo bay (not to say it couldn't be refitted for one), you cannot say for certain that they couldn't have one (this is after all quite a few years in the future, and a game).

    Enterpride-D blueprints

    Enterprise-E blueprints

    Voyager blueprints

    Enterprise-C blueprints

    As you can see they have several ventral phaser arrays, some very close to the torpedo bay.

    Remember also these blueprints are based on original specs, after many years of advancement and possible refits/retrofits it is quite possible to have one located near or very close to a torpedo bay.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You would be greatly incorrect, while these ships may not have one located dead near the torpedo bay (not to say it couldn't be refitted for one), you cannot say for certain that they couldn't have one (this is after all quite a few years in the future, and a game).

    Enterpride-D blueprints

    Enterprise-E blueprints

    Voyager blueprints

    Enterprise-C blueprints

    As you can see they have several ventral phaser arrays, some very close to the torpedo bay.

    Remember also these blueprints are based on original specs, after many years of advancement and possible refits/retrofits it is quite possible to have one located near or very close to a torpedo bay.


    Trycksh0t and I were discussing visual FX content from Star Trek The Next Generation.

    Specificallly the recycling of a visual FX that were originally created and used for a specific plot point in an episode about tossing salad near Niagra falls, or something, involving the crew discoteching a phaser blast through the fore star-drive torpedo launcher.

    No ventral phasers, of any kind, were used in that specific FX animation element.

    Also, Star Trek The Next Generation is not Star Trek Online.

    Meaning, Star Trek Online does not matter in the equation, at all. (and even if it did you'd still have no support).

    Therefore, your arguments are invalid. (especially the ones involving schematics as you clearly cannot read those)

    Conclusion: you are "incorrect" and nothing will change that.
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I dont know if this is commented yet (didnt read the entire thread) but one thing i hate the most, and its maybe the cause nobody plays with shuttle is, the style of the weapons being fired from a shuttle.

    Seriously cryptic?? my shuttle fires a torpedo that is bigger than the shuttle itself. The phaser beam array shots from the cabin, and it covers the entire ship lol. The visual fx of a shuttle firing is just terrible.

    I wonder, why the hell didnt cryptic think on smaller weapon versions for use with shuttles? I am pretty sure that the phaser array that a shuttle can fire is not the same as a type 4 cruiser phaser array. It is and it should be really smaller. Same as torpedos. If some weapons are specifically designed for shuttles, what the hell, cryptic, at least change their size. They look really awful in a shuttle.

    And people still wonder why we dont see more shuttle users. My motive is this one.

    As for the regular weapon firing ports. Yes. One thing i expected when i started playing this game was to see the enterprise firing with the classic circle power up around the saucer. That will be awesome. And it will represent a really classic star trek point. But of course, it was not possible lol.

    Now, i dont see the problem on that. The only problem is when you fire a lot of phasers at the same time (aka faw for example), because you never saw that in the tv shows. Imagine the speed of the circle effect that will be needed.. that will be really non sense. And again, honestly i only saw that effect watching TNG, of course TOS ships didnt have that effect and in the other shows.. i cant even remember lol.
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Who would like more "Star Trek" in their "Star Trek Combat"?

    Star Trek space combat is a room full of actors lurching in the same direction. Sure sounds like it'd be fun to play.
    <3
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I dont know if this is commented yet (didnt read the entire thread) but one thing i hate the most, and its maybe the cause nobody plays with shuttle is, the style of the weapons being fired from a shuttle.

    Seriously cryptic?? my shuttle fires a torpedo that is bigger than the shuttle itself. The phaser beam array shots from the cabin, and it covers the entire ship lol. The visual fx of a shuttle firing is just terrible.

    I wonder, why the hell didnt cryptic think on smaller weapon versions for use with shuttles? I am pretty sure that the phaser array that a shuttle can fire is not the same as a type 4 cruiser phaser array. It is and it should be really smaller. Same as torpedos. If some weapons are specifically designed for shuttles, what the hell, cryptic, at least change their size. They look really awful in a shuttle.

    And people still wonder why we dont see more shuttle users. My motive is this one.

    As for the regular weapon firing ports. Yes. One thing i expected when i started playing this game was to see the enterprise firing with the classic circle power up around the saucer. That will be awesome. And it will represent a really classic star trek point. But of course, it was not possible lol.

    Now, i dont see the problem on that. The only problem is when you fire a lot of phasers at the same time (aka faw for example), because you never saw that in the tv shows. Imagine the speed of the circle effect that will be needed.. that will be really non sense. And again, honestly i only saw that effect watching TNG, of course TOS ships didnt have that effect and in the other shows.. i cant even remember lol.

    The small craft problem is due to the fact that the game doesn't know the difference between a Starship and a Shuttle. It does essentially not know the difference between your captain and the ship, it just changes skins and loads different hotbars (in the early days they were Starships hovering through ESD and people in space, occasionally).

    The playable small craft are inflated five times their size and can slot MK XII phaser arrays. Like I said in my earlier posting: It's stuff like this that makes me think why did Cryptic decide to make a Star Trek game when they didn't even try to follow the IP? Recently, I read that they originally didn't even plan to include canon ship designs and instead wanted to stick with their original designs - once again it looks like the Star Trek license wasn't something they went for...
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • trycksh0ttrycksh0t Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Trycksh0t and I were discussing visual FX content from Star Trek The Next Generation.

    Specificallly the recycling of a visual FX that were originally created and used for a specific plot point in an episode about tossing salad near Niagra falls, or something, involving the crew discoteching a phaser blast through the fore star-drive torpedo launcher.

    No ventral phasers, of any kind, were used in that specific FX animation element.

    Also, Star Trek The Next Generation is not Star Trek Online.

    Meaning, Star Trek Online does not matter in the equation, at all. (and even if it did you'd still have no support).

    Therefore, your arguments are invalid. (especially the ones involving schematics as you clearly cannot read those)

    Conclusion: you are "incorrect" and nothing will change that.

    Yep, the VFX people decided that they wanted to fire a phaser from that area and to heck with the ship design. Then again, 'Conundrum' showed that the writers were ignorant as well, since I recall something in that episode stating the Enterprise had 10 total phaser arrays... but there are 12 arrays visible on the ship. TNG is chock full of inconsistencies, but based on all of the 'technical data' available, there should not be a phaser array located right on-top of the photon torpedo launcher.
  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Trycksh0t and I were discussing visual FX content from Star Trek The Next Generation.

    Specificallly the recycling of a visual FX that were originally created and used for a specific plot point in an episode about tossing salad near Niagra falls, or something, involving the crew discoteching a phaser blast through the fore star-drive torpedo launcher.

    No ventral phasers, of any kind, were used in that specific FX animation element.

    Also, Star Trek The Next Generation is not Star Trek Online.

    Meaning, Star Trek Online does not matter in the equation, at all. (and even if it did you'd still have no support).

    Therefore, your arguments are invalid. (especially the ones involving schematics as you clearly cannot read those)

    Conclusion: you are "incorrect" and nothing will change that.


    Some of the later Galaxy class ships were refitted with nacelle phaser arrays, the USS Venture was shown with them.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Trycksh0t and I were discussing visual FX content from Star Trek The Next Generation.

    Specificallly the recycling of a visual FX that were originally created and used for a specific plot point in an episode about tossing salad near Niagra falls, or something, involving the crew discoteching a phaser blast through the fore star-drive torpedo launcher.

    No ventral phasers, of any kind, were used in that specific FX animation element.

    Also, Star Trek The Next Generation is not Star Trek Online.

    Meaning, Star Trek Online does not matter in the equation, at all. (and even if it did you'd still have no support).

    Therefore, your arguments are invalid. (especially the ones involving schematics as you clearly cannot read those)

    Conclusion: you are "incorrect" and nothing will change that.

    Case of the matter is despite who you may or may not talk with, you cannot for sure say that a ship such as those cannot have a phaser array near the torpedo launcher!!!

    The schematics are old originals, and haven't been updated with the possibility of refits like the nacelle arrays.

    Despite how this game tries to determine where the weapon hard points are, the actual show writer's can put them wherever the heck they want to.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Star Trek space combat is a room full of actors lurching in the same direction.

    It is???!!!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Case of the matter is despite who you may or may not talk with, you cannot for sure say that a ship such as those cannot have a phaser array near the torpedo launcher!!!

    The schematics are old originals, and haven't been updated with the possibility of refits like the nacelle arrays.

    Despite how this game tries to determine where the weapon hard points are, the actual show writer's can put them wherever the heck they want to.
    An excellent example of this last part is how the part of the D'D that was meant as the ship's deflector was later used as a beam weapon port.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    trycksh0t wrote: »
    Yep, the VFX people decided that they wanted to fire a phaser from that area and to heck with the ship design. Then again, 'Conundrum' showed that the writers were ignorant as well, since I recall something in that episode stating the Enterprise had 10 total phaser arrays... but there are 12 arrays visible on the ship. TNG is chock full of inconsistencies, but based on all of the 'technical data' available, there should not be a phaser array located right on-top of the photon torpedo launcher.

    Which is why the visuals are funny.
    zipagat wrote: »
    Some of the later Galaxy class ships were refitted with nacelle phaser arrays, the USS Venture was shown with them.

    Yeah, those were pretty well placed.
    Case of the matter is despite who you may or may not talk with, you cannot for sure say that a ship such as those cannot have a phaser array near the torpedo launcher!!!

    The schematics are old originals, and haven't been updated with the possibility of refits like the nacelle arrays.

    Despite how this game tries to determine where the weapon hard points are, the actual show writer's can put them wherever the heck they want to.

    You went from:
    "[PHASER NEAR THE TORPEDO LAUNCHER!]"
    to
    "[SCHEMATICS DON'T SHOW IT, BUT STO DOES!]"
    to
    "[JUST KIDDING, STO DOESN'T SHOW IT EITHER! BUT FANFIC MIGHT!.. MAYBE!]"

    Over a dialog about that has nothing to do with a phaser near a torpedo launcher, or Star Trek Online for that matter.

    So thanks for the clarification to my prior "confusion"; it's clear now that you're not trolling, you're just stupid.
    An excellent example of this last part is how the part of the D'D that was meant as the ship's deflector was later used as a beam weapon port.

    Don't feed the stupid, shadowwraith77 is already desperate to Klingon whatever they can - if you give them the idea that they're not backpeddling across their entire argument they'll probably resort to stealing our identities.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Which is why the visuals are funny.



    Yeah, those were pretty well placed.



    You went from:
    "[PHASER NEAR THE TORPEDO LAUNCHER!]"

    Yes it can be possible
    to
    "[SCHEMATICS DON'T SHOW IT, BUT STO DOES!]"

    Never did I say sto does this is were you are full of it.
    to
    "[JUST KIDDING, STO DOESN'T SHOW IT EITHER! BUT FANFIC MIGHT!.. MAYBE!]"

    Again funny never said or mentioned anything about sto or fanfic, again full of it with TRIBBLE from the mouth.

    Over a dialog about that has nothing to do with a phaser near a torpedo launcher, or Star Trek Online for that matter.

    Probably the most truthful thing you said, and a complete oxymoron of what you said above it.

    So thanks for the clarification to my prior "confusion"; it's clear now that you're not trolling, you're just stupid.



    Don't feed the stupid, shadowwraith77 is already desperate to Klingon whatever they can - if you give them the idea that they're not backpeddling across their entire argument they'll probably resort to stealing our identities.

    You are the idiot for saying it cannot be done, again if the writers want to have a phaser shot coming from the torpedo launcher's location than it will be so, and you cannot do a damn thing about it.

    I pointed out that the ship's do in fact have an array pretty close (not exactly), but with old blueprints those can be updated with possible refits as to allow an actual array next to one.

    It had nothing to do with the game, nor did I ever say anything that related to the game I specified that from the writer's standpoint a refitted vessel can easily have an array mounted next to the torpedo bay.

    And for your comment about the conny having one there, you would be dead wrong as the ship's banks were on the saucer only.

    You come off making yourself look just as big of an idiot for saying TRIBBLE, that wasn't even said.

    You also haven't disproved that a vessel of federation designation, cannot have an array mounted next to the torpedo launcher if they so choose to put one there.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Anyone notice how in DS9 those ships could really MOVE but in TNG they just kind of sat in place and took it? XD
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    sonnikku wrote: »
    Anyone notice how in DS9 those ships could really MOVE but in TNG they just kind of sat in place and took it? XD
    CGI is an amazing thing. :D
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    sonnikku wrote: »
    Anyone notice how in DS9 those ships could really MOVE but in TNG they just kind of sat in place and took it? XD

    That's one of the reason it all went downhill, at least for me :D In TNG and TOS ships didn't move all that well because they were using physical models and all. But to me, this is how I think big Starships WOULD behave. Originally, the ships had weapoon ranges of hundreds of thousands of kilometers. The whole CGI "agile" zooming aroung is more action packed but makes a lot less sense to me AND intorduced the "line-of-sight" shooting.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Honestly, in many ways combat IS like the show combined with JJ trek (the JJ trek Enterprise has turrets instead of beam arrays in that universe for example). Many times in the show, all they did was sit their and blast away at the enemy, Especially the ships like the Galaxy and D'Deridex.

    Looks like it to me, we don't have high rez animations of each beam burning some hull plating with each shot but they did a pretty good job with the animations they did use.

    Nitpicking on a non-issue really won't improve the game, wanna talk about improvements, let's talk about updating the ui elements and ui controls for a moment, and the problems with 0 interiors which they could totally monetize if they wished so that excuse doesn't hold water anylonger.
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